The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[Going Commando]

10 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

The second Wall gets with a real coach he'll be an mvp candidate, bring the coach here.

 

I actually agree with you on this.  If John were playing in San Antonio or Boston, he'd be an MVP candidate.

 

The problem is Gregg Popovich and Brad Stevens aren't walking through the door.

 

Talent isn't enough in this league.  You need leadership and culture just as much.  You need great scheming and great in game coaching.  There are teams like the Warriors and Celtics and Raptors and Bucks out there who have it all and you can't compete with them with just talent any more.

 

I'm at the point where I'm indifferent about blowing up the roster.  I think it's the last step in the process of turning things around, but it'll be the first step we take.  I have absolutely zero interest in watching this franchise's leadership--FO and coach and everyone else--conduct another rebuild.

 

I won't have hope for the future until the entire leadership structure in the FO and the coaching staff are completely replaced.  And replaced with legitimately good people.

[PeterMP]

9 hours ago, Destino said:

Brooks didn’t inherit a bad defensive team.  The wizards had been a fairly good defensive team.  It was only in Wittmans last year that the team fell out of the top ten in defensive rating... and they only fell as far as 14th.  We had Jared Dudley playing PF that season and Beal only started 35 games.  It was a down year in many areas

 

Brooks’ first year saw the team finish 20th.  They rebounded a bit and finished 15th (still worse than Wittman’s worst result), and are currently sitting at 28th.  

 

 

4 things have happened that make is not surprising their defensive ratings have fallen:

 

1.  Nene left.  You lost a good defensive player and replaced him with negative defensive players.

 

2.  The league has continued to change to more of shooting perimeter game which the Wizards aren't well equipped to defend.

 

3.  Players aged and got injured and slowed down accordingly.

 

4.  As part of that, their pace is down, which affects offense and defense.

 

When Brooks was in OK, they were always at least a good (mid-teens) to very good (4th one year) defensive teams, and it isn't like Westbrook ever was a great defensive player.  And they really haven't gotten better since he left.  If he has players that can and will play defense, he'll put out at least a pretty good defensive team.

Edited November 3, 2018 by PeterMP

[StillUnknown]

 

in fairness, you could literally pick anyone wearing a wizards jersey and see that same type of effort

 

but this man will soon be making 40+mil to do such things

 

burn it down, preferably with Grunfeld in the building taped to his chair

[StillUnknown]

 

telling you, that team fight is coming

[CRobi21]

[Sticksboi05]

At this point I hope the losing continues. Bottom out.

[TradeTheBeal!]

16 minutes ago, Sticksboi05 said:

At this point I hope the losing continues. Bottom out.

 

I have some good news for you.

[CrypticVillain]

1 hour ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

I have some good news for you.

?? 

 

But seriously, that's where I am. Honestly, I was in the same place with the Skins in 2017... But them bammas did just enough to keep the staff, and they've been improving ever since. Now, they're kind of killing it and look to be tending upward.

 

The Wizards? What the hell happened?After the Game 7 lost in Boston, I thought it was on. I thought Grunfeld finally had something cooking. All he had to do was fine tune it. But that's the problem right there... HE'S the one doing things.

 

**** ain't changing for the better until he's gone AND we bring in someone with no ties to this organization who knows what the hell they're doing. And when I say no ties, I mean NONE!

Edited November 3, 2018 by CrypticVillain

[Renegade7]

6 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

 

Everyone else gets blame and ire except the two all stars and I’m over that. This team is 1-7, and the two all stars are as much to blame as everyone else.

 

 

Who said they don't get blame?  You know what, don't answer that, not wanting to give up on him and saying he would be a much better player with a better coach are too different conversation, I'll acknowledge that and move on.

[Renegade7]

5 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I actually agree with you on this.  If John were playing in San Antonio or Boston, he'd be an MVP candidate.

 

The problem is Gregg Popovich and Brad Stevens aren't walking through the door.

 

Talent isn't enough in this league.  You need leadership and culture just as much.  You need great scheming and great in game coaching.  There are teams like the Warriors and Celtics and Raptors and Bucks out there who have it all and you can't compete with them with just talent any more.

 

I'm at the point where I'm indifferent about blowing up the roster.  I think it's the last step in the process of turning things around, but it'll be the first step we take.  I have absolutely zero interest in watching this franchise's leadership--FO and coach and everyone else--conduct another rebuild.

 

I won't have hope for the future until the entire leadership structure in the FO and the coaching staff are completely replaced.  And replaced with legitimately good people.

 

It's hard not to be numb when you got this roster and the look just as bad as any Wizard team we've had here.  We'll never see a coach of that caliber here at minimum if Ernie still is.  Ernie still being here is a bigger reason for my reluctance to blow it up then blowing it up makes sense, there's just no way I just Ernie to get this level of talent and except different results without addressing this culture we keep talking about.  To me its a non-starter because I know he's going to f it up, and that will be another decade of my life watching the same f'n movie with this team, none of us want that, but that's exactly what will happen if Ernie doesn't get the boot and we start blowing this team up anyway.

6 hours ago, Llevron said:

 

They won’t. Which is why we are having the discussion. 

A discussion that feels good or makes sense but really mute if Ernie is in charge or a third rebuild.  I'd be more open-minded to that option if I trusted who was doing it, in meantime, hoping they turn this around is actually a safer alternative.  That's how much I don't want Ernie anywhere near this anymore, what makes sense doesn't make sense if he's the one in charge of it.

[Destino]

This team is so lifeless right now that I’m surprised we haven’t seen rumors that someone with a max deal slept with a teammates girl.  They look like the Pacers did after whatever happened in their locker room.  I can still see the individual talent occasionally but collectively... there’s just nothing.  

 

Now I’m just curious to know what happened.  I’m sure the local media will tell us, whenever Grunfeld tells them it’s ok to talk about it.

[Renegade7]

5 hours ago, PeterMP said:

@Renegade7

 

Wall is not even the 3rd best PG in the NBA.  He isn't jumping over 3+ other people at his position alone to win an MVP award. 

 

Funny how that conversation has changed, it used to be not fair to say Kyrie was a better PG simply because he scored more.  Never said he'd win one, said he'd be a candidate.  His scoring would go up with a coach who had the balls to use him as an off-ball shooter and still has been averaging double digit assists without a center that can dunk for a minute now.  We've all seen this dude look unstoppable before, I will agree he's running out of time for that to matter, at least in this city.

[abdcskins]

I don't think this team is as talented as people think. I don't even think Wall and Beal are that talented frankly. Oubre is the only one who plays hard.

[Renegade7]

34 minutes ago, Destino said:

This team is so lifeless right now that I’m surprised we haven’t seen rumors that someone with a max deal slept with a teammates girl.  They look like the Pacers did after whatever happened in their locker room.  I can still see the individual talent occasionally but collectively... there’s just nothing.  

 

Now I’m just curious to know what happened.  I’m sure the local media will tell us, whenever Grunfeld tells them it’s ok to talk about it.

 

Shows centered around the Wizards are useless, its like living in a dictatorship where speaking badly about the leader can get you killed, they won't do it.

 

When they won't even say his name or always look like they have crust on the side of their lips after an interview with him, that's not respect, that's fear.

Edited November 3, 2018 by Renegade7

[StillUnknown]

Just now, Renegade7 said:

 

Shows centered around the Wizards are useless, its like living in a dictatorship where speaking badly about the leader can get you killed, they won't do it.

 

Chris Miller is the worst of the bunch. Somewhat convinced he's a programmed Ernie-bot

[Skin'emAlive]

21 minutes ago, abdcskins said:

Oubre is the only one who plays hard.

 

Oubre plays reckless. in 20 minutes he was a -35 on the court. By the end of the game he finished -30. He is a -76 on the season with an average 28 minutes per game. Hes the worst guy on the court no named Scott Brooks.

[StillUnknown]

2 minutes ago, Skin'emAlive said:

 

Oubre plays reckless. in 20 minutes he was a -35 on the court. By the end of the game he finished -30. He is a -76 on the season with an average 28 minutes per game. Hes the worst guy on the court no named Scott Brooks.

 

+/- is useful, but needs context

 

Oubre is not great by any stretch, but you could make a strong argument he was the best player on that west coast road trip

[Renegade7]

Just now, StillUnknown said:

 

Chris Miller is the worst of the bunch. Somewhat convinced he's a programmed Ernie-bot

F'n wind up toy.

 

I got through Wizards Outsiders the other night after the Thunder game, think I mentioned it in the NBA thread, just a whole lotta ranting about the team needing to play better and wanting to talk about sandwiches to avoid talking about the obvious elephant in the room.  I could see the ear piece buzzing saying "get back on topic", which they went right back to focus on just the players.  It's not just the players, just like its not just the coach, or the GM.  I agree Ernie is the root of the problem here, but the way its being presented is he has nothing to do with it, absolutely nothing.

 

I'm waiting for the book or 30 for 30 on why this guy keeps getting secret extensions.  Once upon a time I thought the DC sports media felt Ernie walked on water because he made us medicore again, which is better then where we were, and we're just happy not to be a team that was never competitive.  This feels different, there's a lot of moving parts going into defending this guy that I don't believe has anything to do with that anymore, I just don't understand why.  

[Skin'emAlive]

I havent posted much on this team this season, and honestly I have no interest in watching the rest of the season. These games last about 5 minutes before I turn it off and do something else. Its the same problems, always. Scott Brooks was an incredibly terrible signing and both Ernie and Scott have single-handedly destroyed everything with a plethora of short-sighted asinine decisions. The damage is deep within the roster:

 

Kelly Oubre: hes playing in a contract year with the green light to do whatever the **** he wants. hes a role player that is trying to show off his skills to another team and is killing our offense. His defense has never been as advertised. We drafted him to be a 3-d wing who brought energy off the bench and filled gaps. He is out there playing like hes JR Smith.

 

Otto Porter: hes being asked to play like a gunner when that is not his game and not what we drafted him for. We drafted him to be a 3rd star/utility man that can do everything and be efficient while Wall/Beal do their thing. Dude increased every stat across the board every season, and a small incremental increase again this year would have been great! But now hes being asked to be Nick ****ing Young or else be banished to the bench. His game has been destroyed by this foolishness.

 

Oubre/Porter: Both are playing to the style Brooks demands because the wizards laughably drafter another 1st round small foward to take one of their spots on the roster before the end of this season.

 

Wall: Dude has checked out. He cant run a single pick and roll without Mahinmi fouling out in 10 minutes, and D12 is coming off an injury. Brooks only other offensive playcall is a cutter out of an inbounds set play. ( the only thing he has brought to this team better than Wittman). He is discouraged because Morris has absolutely no idea how to guard the p&r, and Mahinmi is guaranteed to foul the driver when he flies by Morris/Oubre/Rivers/Green. Hes switching constantly, a Brooks team defense philosophy for some reason, and it has always looked bad. John runs on emotion and energy, and everything around the team is depressing.

 

Beal: for the love of god would someone keep the ball out of his hands in the final 2 minutes.

 

Morris: He's being asked to do more than hes capable of. His offensive game has been decent. His defense has been abysmal. I blame this on the switching, as his man-man defense is passable.

 

Mahinmi: **** this guy

 

Satoransky: His soul was taken the second we brought in Ty Lawson and gave him Sato's minutes an evening before the playoffs began last year. The addition of Rivers has been salt in the wound.

 

Rivers: Playing too many minutes with the wrong people. 2 games before he spills the beans on whats really going on.

 

Jeff Green: He is not a ****ing center. Why are we doing this?

 

Can this be fixed? Yea. we have a decent roster. Bench mobs should never happen on a team with 3 max players. timeouts should happen the second the other team goes on a mini-run. Last night OKC went on an 18-2 run against the bench mob before he called a time out! Thats a fireable offense. Before moving any pieces here, Brooks has got to go. Until hes gone, there is no reason to watch this madness.

[Destino]

Was it here that people were telling me Sato was the backup PG and that Rivers wasn’t going to take that role?  I knew the moment we traded for that bum that he’d be overdribbling with the backup unit while Sato largely sat on the bench.  Rivers can do some things, but not if he’s given the green light to to all the things he does poorly.

 

The wizards bench is never going to be good if they don’t run plays or at least some screens and motion.  We’ve been doing this same stuff since Wittman and have had an endless parade of backup point guards that seem to have little issue contributing on other teams.  It never works here because bench level guards are not the kind of players that can consistently create for themselves and the team around them.  If they were, they’d start.  

 

The saving grace last last season is that Sato pushed the ball and the bench moved it.  Now that Rivers is here, we’re back to having a bench guard over dribbling and the bench is once again inexcusably bad.  

[StillUnknown]

every year we recognize the bench is an issue

 

every year the deck chairs get rearranged

 

every year that same idiot gets to do it all over again

 

rinse and repeat

[Skin'emAlive]

While we talk about Sato, lets push this a little further:

 

1. Marcin Gortat: He should have been traded the second we decided to sign Ian Mahinmi. Instead we kept both, creating a toxic atmosphere. It was time to move on from Marcin then, when he had value to trade. There was nothing wrong with moving on from him this past year, but it was far too late. Not only was Ian the wrong choice to replace Marcin in many ways, the fact that we also signed both the 3rd and 4th string backup bigs in Orlando at the same time to guaranteed contracts was an absolute killer. Hilariously, D12 was available then, and I said we should have traded for him then... now look where we are. 

 

2. Sato: This team spent 4 years "waiting" on Sato to come over here from Spain and take over the backup guard duties. The second he comes over and shows promise, EG brings in Marcus Thornton, Trey Burke, Ramon Sessions, Tim Frazier, and now Austin Rivers to take the ball from his hands. Its like SB learned nothing from the months John was down. What is his job here?

 

3. Hero Ball Offense: The philosophy of this team is based around the concept of everyone create for themselves with the ball in their hands, and getting out in transition. But this league has shifted to a perpetual movement league where everyone creates for themselves without touching the ball, and using the bigs to box out on rebounds and push it to the guards in transition. We are hilariously 2 steps behind where we were 4 years ago. This falls directly on Scott Brooks Hero Ball offense. The same offense that got him kicked to the curb.

 

There are fixes that can be made that would not require trading away a 1st or a talented player for a temp contract (Butler).

 

1. Vince McMahon needs to be brought in as a partner with Monumental. A venture deal. He can then assume GM duties, so i can fully enjoy watching him strut into the arena and firing Scott Brooks' sorry ass over the jumbotron. I dont care who is hired to take over the coaching spot, but I would prefer to have SVG with no creative control in the contract.

2. The everyman switch for himself defense is thrown in the trash.

3. Hero-ball is thrown in the trash. I dont want to see another KO drive to the basket without atleast 4 other passes are completed. John is the facilitator, he should control the ball. Why are we letting low IQ players even have the option of jacking dumbass shots, or ill-conceived drives? The John Wall pick and roll with a 30 year old Marcin Gortat who could no longer jump was still lethal enough that defenses had to gameplan against it. Why the **** have we not tried to run this with any other guy on the roster? We need to start running some picks with atleast 1 of our 6 small forwards.

5. If you dont box out, you dont play.

[CRobi21]

THIS mfer...

 

[Skin'emAlive]

If only he had the power to do something about it.

Edited November 4, 2018 by Skin'emAlive

[StillUnknown]