The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[Skins199021]

I actually trust giving Horford a max deal over whiteside. I think Hordford will be like Duncan in the sense that he will age very well. I mean a Max contract for him would end when he is 35? I could see him still putting up numbers like Gortat put up this year at that age.

 

Again its really a matter of do we think we can get a good piece back by trading Gortat, Oubre, and a 1st if need be.

[Destino]

I think no max contracts this offseason is a better option than handing out one that isn't any good. Keep improving the team, collect assets, and pick the right spot to do something drastic. Horford is soft and no where near productive enough, long term he'll be useless. His numbers have already started declining.

[Fergasun]

So much for Durant.

The biggest question is whether Wall, Beal and Porter can individually/collectively develop into "legit superstar" level.

Then there are wild cards like Satoransky, Oubre, Morris, and [insert name of UDFA rookie]. Do any of them have a leap in them?

I think blockbuster trade means "overpay" - not sure Ted wants that. It seems foolish today to trade Beal. I think his ceiling is high...

[Going Commando]

Harsh. I read Horford either wants to go to a city with a big Dominican population or simply stay in Atlanta. DC doesn't have a big Dominican population, but IIRC it's fifth or sixth among NBA cities.

Horford isn't a max caliber player but he's an All Star during healthy seasons. Don't underestimate just how big an impact he could have here. Wall has been on his own. A second All Star changes our ceiling to 50+ wins. The other thing that's nice about Horford is he can play both PF and C. Horford + Gortat + Morris would be one of the best trio of bigs in the conference. And I think Scott Brooks can coax Beal and Wall to new levels of play. Factor in Porter, Oubre, and Sato and that is a **** ton of young talent and athleticism on the wings to go with the strong back court and front court. In other words, that's a well balanced roster. All you would need is to find some quality vets on cheap short term deals (like Jared Dudley and Ramon Sessions) for spots 9 & 10.

So I do think signing a FA as good as Horford would make a big difference.

The other tact I like is signing Ryan Anderson to be the third big in the rotation with Gortat and Morris (although I'd like a better option at back up C than just Morris). Anderson's game is tailor made for our team construction. He would be a devastating offensive option. Need to sign a quality, rim-protecting back up C though if we signed Anderson.

[Going Commando]

The biggest question is whether Wall, Beal and Porter can individually/collectively develop into "legit superstar" level.

Then there are wild cards like Satoransky, Oubre, Morris, and [insert name of UDFA rookie]. Do any of them have a leap in them?

I think blockbuster trade means "overpay" - not sure Ted wants that. It seems foolish today to trade Beal. I think his ceiling is high...

Wall is already a star. He'll make the AS game every year from now until he gets old, and if he wasn't a legit star, this team would struggle to win over 30 games. He buoys us to .500 with his incredibly expansive game and broad impact. He generates good shots for his teammates more frequently and easily than any other player in the league, such that, if you put him with moderately talented scoring outlets on the wings and at the basket, then you will run an effective offense. If you put him with another AS caliber outlet or two, then you'd get an elite offense. Hr makes simple stuff like fast breaks and high screen and rolls reliable bread and butter scoring on any given possession. And when motivated, he's a devastating defender that can free lance around the court and cause havoc like you normally only see in small forwards and big shooting guards who are elite stoppers.

We've seen Wall go through periods of play where he fires on all cylinders and the ceiling comes off and he plays at an MVP level. But that usually only lasts about a month before you get a swing in his level of play. Poor coaching, poor conditioning, chronic pain in his feet and knees, getting worn down by playing iron man minutes, and a lack of contribution from his teammates have all negatively impacted his consistency the past couple of seasons. His conditioning is probably going to be a mess going into this season. But his coaching should be far better and he finally took care of his knees by getting those surgeries, so I think you will see a much more consistent season from him this year once he finally gets in shape. I think Brooks is going to bring out the true overachiever in him.

I too think Beal has high upside. For him it's all about staying healthy, continuing to add to his mid range arsenal, and avoiding falling into old bad habits like going invisible and/or picking up his dribble and settling for jumpers instead of getting to the line. But when he is healthy, Beal has developed his game enough to where he can be an All Star. He can create shots off the dribble against set D, facilitate PnRs, finish in transition, and score on step backs and floaters from mid range. He's a killer too. Very naturally aggressive and competitive. I think it speaks volumes about him that he would get into it with Nene when everyone else was basically afraid of him. Beal wants to win and I think grow into a star if he can just go for a couple of months in a row without missing time.

Porter isn't there yet. He's still at the point in his career where he is learning to play with consistent effort each night. You might get a stretch of like 7 games where he is fire. An absolute beast of a three and D wing. And then you might get seven straight where he is totally invisible. That'll probably be the case for another season or two. When he hits his prime though, he's going to be damn good.

Oubre isn't even close to being there either. ****ing raw as Hell. But his ceiling is huge--Jimmy Butler-esque. He's going to put some man strength on as he ages and then he'll be one of the most athletic wings in the NBA. His skills are underdeveloped but his instincts and confidence are through the roof--he's an incredibly aggressive junk yard dog. That's why I could see him developing quickly and being ready for a huge role in his early 20s. Otto and Beal were nothing like this at his age...

Sato is possibly the best Euro guard prospect outside the NBA. If we bring him over, he'll probably be a pretty major rotation player as a rookie. He's seasoned for a long time in Europe so I wouldn't expect as long a developmental period with him as our other draft picks. His upside is pretty good given his terrific size and leaping ability for the position.

Morris is who he is gonna be I think. Average to slightly below average starter at his position. I don't expect much growth from him at this stage in his basketball career.

[Skin'emAlive]

Whiteside would be a terrific signing that would fill the biggest holes on this team outside of quality depth. The only caveat is that eg can't wait around thinking he's going to be able to maybe get cousins, and end up missing the bus on top quality free agents.

[StillUnknown]

Grunfeld signing a dude with maturity/commitment issues to a max contract. I see no problems

 

ALL HAIL EMPEROR GRUNFELD......ALL MUST HAIL!

[Taylor703]

Grunfeld signing a dude with maturity/commitment issues to a max contract. I see no problems

ALL HAIL EMPEROR GRUNFELD......ALL MUST HAIL!

The team doesn't really have many options. Whiteside isn't going to sign here anyway lol.

Ernie bombed this whole thing so bad. Tons of cap room and nobody even wants to come in for an interview. Ted is a clueless moron.

[Going Commando]

Maturity issues, yeah. He's a hothead and he's crazy. But I don't think he has commitment issues. The kid plays hard and he is an offseason worker. With him it's all about controlling his temper and, fact of the matter, a big man as talented as him won't hit the open market in his prime unless he has some warts.

[Skins199021]

Harsh. I read Horford either wants to go to a city with a big Dominican population or simply stay in Atlanta. DC doesn't have a big Dominican population, but IIRC it's fifth or sixth among NBA cities.

Horford isn't a max caliber player but he's an All Star during healthy seasons. Don't underestimate just how big an impact he could have here. Wall has been on his own. A second All Star changes our ceiling to 50+ wins. The other thing that's nice about Horford is he can play both PF and C. Horford + Gortat + Morris would be one of the best trio of bigs in the conference. And I think Scott Brooks can coax Beal and Wall to new levels of play. Factor in Porter, Oubre, and Sato and that is a **** ton of young talent and athleticism on the wings to go with the strong back court and front court. In other words, that's a well balanced roster. All you would need is to find some quality vets on cheap short term deals (like Jared Dudley and Ramon Sessions) for spots 9 & 10.

So I do think signing a FA as good as Horford would make a big difference.

The other tact I like is signing Ryan Anderson to be the third big in the rotation with Gortat and Morris (although I'd like a better option at back up C than just Morris). Anderson's game is tailor made for our team construction. He would be a devastating offensive option. Need to sign a quality, rim-protecting back up C though if we signed Anderson.

I agree about Horford, and as I said I believe he will age well like Duncan.

 

His stats were still great this year, his shooting % fell to around 50% because he was taking a lot more 3's this year which he actually hit at a decent rate.

 

My question is do we have enough money/space to sign him and Beal and sign guys like Sessions, Dudley, and another SG off the bench... we have desperately needed a good 3 point SG off the bench for while now.

 

I do think a team starting with Wall, beal, horford, morris, porter, gortat, Satoransky, Oubre can get 50+ wins, but it would really depend on the bench assembled 

[abdcskins]

I think the only thing Ernie could do at this point to save face is acquire Boogie. I do think it's possible to get him without moving Beal. Gortat, Oubre and Porter plus 17' 18' unprotected first round picks should do it. Go all in. Just do it.

Who would that leave us with though? You'd be trading away half the team.

[Skin'emAlive]

The only reason Horford has any success at all is the fact that he gets away with a carrying defenders from the perimeter straight into the paint without ever being called for a foul. That will never ever happen here (same goes for Noah), and all anyone will ever say is that he must be over the hill now that he is so ineffective. When in reality, his best skill was never ever being booked for those egregious offensive fouls. He cant rebound, block, or play above the rim, which is the only type of player we should be shelling out money for should we try to move on from Marcin. Im going to be so depressed when the report that Horford has been signed to a max contract here comes out.

[Destino]

So we've failed to grow the team around Wall for a few seasons specifically to sign Durant and he doesn't even pick up the phone when Ernie calls?  How the hell does Grunfeld manage to come out of this looking like anything more than the fool he is?  He even wildly over paid for Durant's former coach and all that doesn't even get the Wizards a meeting.

[Taylor703]

This is an unmitigated disaster. He bombed this horribly.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

Nm

[CRobi21]

So we've failed to grow the team around Wall for a few season specifically to sign Durant and he doesn't even pick up the phone when Ernie calls? How the hell does Grunfeld manage to come out of this looking like anything more than the fool he is? He even wildly over paid for Durant's former coach and all that doesn't even get the Wizards a meeting.

This must be that "plan" they keep referring to. Lol

The be a "complete dysfunctional, malfunctional failure of a franchise" plan.

Textbook execution by Ted and Ernie.

Edited June 26, 2016 by STBonecrusher21

[Skins199021]

What is worrisome is that we are obviously going to do something big..... We have too many roster spots open and cap space for there not to be something big.

 

We are either going to acquire a big name, or get a big bench (no stars but a lot of quality)

 

If we max Beal (or get close to it) do we have enough money to sign guys like Ryan Anderson, Zaza, Dudley, and Sessions to the bench?

 

If so that could be the best way to go, I am a believer of are starting 5 as a whole when they are healthy (Especially with a coach with a history of development, and one not named Wittman). Surrounding them with talent on the bench may be much more important than nabbing a star.

[pjfootballer]

The groundhog (Ernie) saw his ugly shadow again. This means 40 more years of suck.

[Taylor703]

What is worrisome is that we are obviously going to do something big..... We have too many roster spots open and cap space for there not to be something big.

We are either going to acquire a big name, or get a big bench (no stars but a lot of quality)

If we max Beal (or get close to it) do we have enough money to sign guys like Ryan Anderson, Zaza, Dudley, and Sessions to the bench?

If so that could be the best way to go, I am a believer of are starting 5 as a whole when they are healthy (Especially with a coach with a history of development, and one not named Wittman). Surrounding them with talent on the bench may be much more important than nabbing a star.

As far as I know we have enough space to do two max deals. Obviously Beal is one. At this point I'm going to assume Horford ends up being the either. I have no idea what we're going to do with Gortat after that though?

[Skins199021]

As far as I know we have enough space to do two max deals. Obviously Beal is one. At this point I'm going to assume Horford ends up being the either. I have no idea what we're going to do with Gortat after that though?

 

Beal not doubt, but I feel it may be more prudent instead of a 3rd max player. Try and sign Ryan Anderson, Biyombo, Courtney Lee, Dudley, and Sessions. Use the money to create a really strong bench if possible

[Warhead36]

Horford is a good player and all but we're getting him in the latter portion of his career and the Wizards aren't exactly a franchise known for getting the best out of players in their late years.

[Renegade7]

Horford is a good player and all but we're getting him in the latter portion of his career and the Wizards aren't exactly a franchise known for getting the best out of players in their late years.

 

Who cares?  Trade Gortat like Steve said, that's an upgrade.

[pjfootballer]

It won't bother me if Durant re-signs with OKC. If he signs with the Spurs or Warriors, I'm pretty much done with the NBA at that point.

[Going Commando]

Who cares?  Trade Gortat like Steve said, that's an upgrade.

Well that was if we signed Whiteside. Unlike him, Horford can play PF. I would keep both Gortat and Morris if we signed Horford. Play Horford at PF when Gortat is on the floor with him, and Horford at C when he is with Morris.

Horford is a 30-32 minute per game player. Gortat is a 30 MPG and he'll probably decline to a 28 MPG player in a season or two. Morris is a 26-28 MPG player. You'd need all three of them. 96 minutes a game to fill at PF & C and 32 + 30 + 28 only equals 90. Probably have about 10 MPG left over to fill with a fourth big or small ball forward.

[Skin'emAlive]

Marcin isnt going to relinquish the starting role to Horford, and Horford would most definitely get a ridiculous deal that could only be justified if he started. Worse yet, we would be in the same position with Al that we were in with Nene in a few years. He already doesnt want to bang on the inside anymore, and some of his numbers have been in decline. Additionally, his rim protection is mediocre at best, something that we desperately need.