Hersh Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 I disagree. This team needs new life and that comes from making moves. Houston, New York, and other teams that are suddenly relevant again aren't there by drafting and waiting. Wizards need to make moves and lure talent. Who should the Wiz be targeting at this point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 Who should the Wiz be targeting at this point? A new GM. Until then the rest doesn't matter. You never know when a guy might fall out of favor with a franchise. You just have to have someone ready and looking to make a move. Right now we've seen the opportunities and did nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 A new GM. Until then the rest doesn't matter. You never know when a guy might fall out of favor with a franchise. You just have to have someone ready and looking to make a move. Right now we've seen the opportunities and did nothing. Everyone is in complete agreement. If you were the GM, which coach would you want and which players would you target for a trade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 (edited) Everyone is in complete agreement. If you were the GM, which coach would you want and which players would you target for a trade? I like the idea of Stan Van Gundy though we know it wouldn't end well. It never ends well for that guy can put boot to ass and whip a team into shape. As for players I'm less certain but I do know the cap monster is looming and will arrive next season. Teams will be looking to shed salaries badly and that's going to create a ton of unexpected opportunities. Edited November 18, 2012 by Destino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 I disagree. This team needs new life and that comes from making moves. Houston, New York, and other teams that are suddenly relevant again aren't there by drafting and waiting. Wizards need to make moves and lure talent. You want what Houston has? They got Harden for a song, but nothing else about their roster is that promising. Overpaying for Jeremy Lin and Omer Asik are not the kind of moves I want us to make. Doing what the Knicks did would be nice. But I don't think it's possible for us to lure a player like Amare was here. And I don't see a Carmelo out there to try and trade for. We've got our foundation pieces through high draft picks. Many other teams have built their foundations with high draft picks: Chicago, OKC, Portland, San Antonio, now New Orleans is going down that path. We need to develop our pieces and find auxiliary pieces that help them. Most teams that have Superstars have to draft them and develop them for themselves and we're in that boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 How do you think we assembled the Arenas, Butler, Jameson teams? Drafting is great but each pick you depend on is 3 years. You want to get good when Wall is in year six/seven and Nene is retired? We've drafted Wall, there's your center piece, and we have Beal who could one day be OJ Mayo. Now find him some people to play with. Get good and then get better. No more "watch the young guys" bull****. That isn't working here. Develop guys behind better players instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonArtest15 Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 You want what Houston has? They got Harden for a song, but nothing else about their roster is that promising. Overpaying for Jeremy Lin and Omer Asik are not the kind of moves I want us to make.Doing what the Knicks did would be nice. But I don't think it's possible for us to lure a player like Amare was here. And I don't see a Carmelo out there to try and trade for. We've got our foundation pieces through high draft picks. Many other teams have built their foundations with high draft picks: Chicago, OKC, Portland, San Antonio, now New Orleans is going down that path. We need to develop our pieces and find auxiliary pieces that help them. Most teams that have Superstars have to draft them and develop them for themselves and we're in that boat. Look at the money guys like DeAndre Jordan and Javale McGee are making. Asik is making less than those two and is (IMO) earning his cash. I'd LOVE to have a guy in the middle like Asik on this team. Lin - sure...I can see the argument about overpaying him. However, I think the gamble on Asik is paying off so far. Didn't watch a minute of the Wizards game last night....and it felt good. LOL. *BTW - Chandler Parsons would have looked good in a Wizards uni. But we took Shelvin Mack instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 (edited) About overpaying. How long did we over pay Blatche, Arenas/Lewis, and others? How much are we paying Okafor and Ariza now? I'd much rather be the rockets. They over pay guys but they over pay young healthy guys that fight and have something to prove. The wizards flat out suck and I'm not down with a plan that essentially keeps moving the date of when that will change three years further away. This team: Wall Price Mayo Crawford Webster Singleton Nene Booker Vesely Seraphin Drummond That's a better team and cheaper than what we have right now and it has more potential going forward. The major difference is that no rookies need to start and we upgrade the starting unit. We shouldn't be looking for rookies to start. We should be looking for players that fit and coaches that can use them. Edited November 19, 2012 by Destino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixcuincle Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Wizards will continue to struggle year after year until Ernie is fired. I also was very doubtful that Wittman was the right man for the job, but given a depleted roster, nobody can succeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skin'emAlive Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Free Chicken Sandwiches!! Awww yea. That is all i can say about that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 How do you think we assembled the Arenas, Butler, Jameson teams? Drafting is great but each pick you depend on is 3 years. You want to get good when Wall is in year six/seven and Nene is retired? We've drafted Wall, there's your center piece, and we have Beal who could one day be OJ Mayo. Now find him some people to play with. Get good and then get better. No more "watch the young guys" bull****. That isn't working here. Develop guys behind better players instead. Those Arenas/Jameson/Butler teams are nothing to shoot for Destino. The construction of those teams sucked frankly, that was a team that capped out at 45 wins and an early playoff exit. It's been some distance now, enough for me to see that Gil was a somewhat rich man's Monta Ellis and a bad locker room presence, Jamison is a turd with whom you can't win anything of significance when he's featured prominently, and Caron was the only player worth keeping--a very poor man's Carmelo and maybe a fringe All Star when he's a key player. They are an example that proves my point--for the vast majority of teams, sustainable success is built through "buying low" with the draft or trading for prospects early in their NBA careers. You can not build a contender quick unless you've already got a superstar and/or you are a destination team. We are the opposite of a destination as a laughingstock and we don't have a true star. Beal isn't a good comp to OJ Mayo, FWIW. Mayo is a one dimensional player which is why he couldn't start in Memphis. He's a gifted scorer, but Beal's overall upside is higher than his. I know you don't like Beal, but you've got a bad read on him. Wall hasn't even played yet. How are you already sure that Beal doesn't belong here and isn't the right player to run with Wall? ---------- Post added November-18th-2012 at 11:01 PM ---------- Look at the money guys like DeAndre Jordan and Javale McGee are making. Asik is making less than those two and is (IMO) earning his cash. I'd LOVE to have a guy in the middle like Asik on this team. Lin - sure...I can see the argument about overpaying him. However, I think the gamble on Asik is paying off so far. Didn't watch a minute of the Wizards game last night....and it felt good. LOL. *BTW - Chandler Parsons would have looked good in a Wizards uni. But we took Shelvin Mack instead. I'll never really complain about second rounders given the utter longshot they represent. Parsons has played well so far and it's good he's been able to stay on his team and get minutes. But he's nothing special. He's a Kyle Korver and there are always lots of players like him around the NBA. Asik is most definitely earning his salary right now because it's only about 5 million a year for the first two seasons. But it's got a poison pill in it for the third year like Lin's, when it will bump up to 14+ million. At that point, it will be horrible for Houston, particularly since the Luxury Tax penalty is going to be really harsh that year. They'll have 43+ million committed to him, Lin, and Harden that season. So they're going to have to try and dupe someone into trading for some of those parts to field a decent team. Asik is a solid big man, don't get me wrong. But essentially all of his value comes from two things--rebounding (at which he is great), and being able to body up true centers on defense in the paint. He's a putrid offensive player and he can't play in space and he's not really out of that six hard fouls mentality. His contract is going to be unbearable in that third year. I'd actually rather pay Lin the remainder of his contract than Asik's, because Lin still at least has a bit of upside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the burgundy and gold Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 I really don't get the hate towards Wall at this point. He's extremely young and has put up very solid stats his first two seasons. Yes I understand his jumper is not that great so far but a lot of other parts of his game are extremely good. Not to mention his supporting cast has been pathetic in the first two seasons. Beal, Wall and Seraphin is a solid young core, we just need to add some pieces around them and get a new coaching staff/FO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsiaticSkinsFan Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Beal isn't a good comp to OJ Mayo, FWIW. Mayo is a one dimensional player which is why he couldn't start in Memphis. He's a gifted scorer, but Beal's overall upside is higher than his. OMG, NO IT ISNT! Mayo can defend, he can rebound, he can shoot, and he can create for himself and others. The defending stuff is subjective, but Mayo is a decent creator for others. Im not sure Beal can dribble a basketball on an NBA level. And Mayo is a better athlete than Beal. This Beal thing, I really dont understand it. Good grief, Mayo is shooting 60 percent from 3 point land this year. Mayo fell out in Memphis because they have Rudy Gay, and Hollins likes Gay more than Mayo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 I disagree that Beal projects to be better than Mayo. Watch what Mayo does this season. I'd be THRILLED if Beal could match Mayo's rookie numbers this season but I strongly doubt he will. Beal has problems with fundamental skills for guards, like dribbling the ball and creating his own shot. Mayo didnt have those gaps and he had better numbers in college. As for the team, first you win then you get good. This idea of running a basketball camp and molding a championship is absurd. You draft a good player and then you build, fight, and buy yourself the rest of the way. Players will go to a average playoff team much more frequently than a squad wondering when they'll win a damn game. I don't hate Beal, I hate that we put our selves in a position where we have to rely on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 I thought this was about dungeons and dragons or world of warcraft in my state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Robert Griffin Experience Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 (edited) Those Arenas/Jameson/Butler teams are nothing to shoot for Destino. The construction of those teams sucked frankly, that was a team that capped out at 45 wins and an early playoff exit. It's been some distance now, enough for me to see that Gil was a somewhat rich man's Monta Ellis and a bad locker room presence, Jamison is a turd with whom you can't win anything of significance when he's featured prominently, and Caron was the only player worth keeping--a very poor man's Carmelo and maybe a fringe All Star when he's a key player. True, but you're vastly underrating Arenas. Arenas was a Kobe/Wade/LeBron tier offensive player, and had we had a real organization in place that could get Arenas to mature as a person in time before Gilbertology happened, then the history of the Wizards is very different. Even barring that, Arenas on a well constructed team would have won an MVP and possibly a ring. A coach with a stronger hand, and better use of cap money, and that's a 50 win team consistently. And it gets pushed into championship tier status if we trade Jamison for Gasol in 2008 or thereabouts. Let's say we fire Eddie and Ernie in 2007, and sign Thibodeau as our HC, and Gilbert stays healthy. We trade Jamison for Gasol in 2008 and end up with the following: Haywood/Thomas Gasol/Blatche Butler/McGuire Stevenson/Young Arenas/Daniels That's a team that could win a title and challenge for the ECF for the next few years. Edited November 19, 2012 by The Robert Griffin Experience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 I thought this was about dungeons and dragons or world of warcraft in my state. To the uninitiated our discussions appear to be mundane commentary concerning a failed sports team few would be interested in. Begone cowan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 To the uninitiated our discussions appear to be mundane commentary concerning a failed sports team few would be interested in. Begone cowan! Oh. This is about Cowan the Bawbawian? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 (edited) OMG, NO IT ISNT!Mayo can defend, he can rebound, he can shoot, and he can create for himself and others. The defending stuff is subjective, but Mayo is a decent creator for others. Im not sure Beal can dribble a basketball on an NBA level. And Mayo is a better athlete than Beal. This Beal thing, I really dont understand it. Good grief, Mayo is shooting 60 percent from 3 point land this year. Mayo fell out in Memphis because they have Rudy Gay, and Hollins likes Gay more than Mayo. OMG YES IT IS! Mayo is 25, I don't think he's got much upside left. Is he going to see drastic growth in his game moving forward? Doubt it. Mayo can't defend. And I don't think that's any more subjective than making any other judgement about a player. Mayo himself said the reason they demoted him was defense. It's not better in Dallas either, the DMN published an article about Mayo talking about how Carlisle ripped him for his defense. I think Mayo wants to be a good defender and he's a smart, athletic player. He's just not a good defender. Also Mayo is not a guy who creates for others well nor is he a particularly good rebounder. Certainly not as good a rebounder as Beal is. Mayo has a career A/TO ratio of 1.3 (2.7/2.1), not good, and he's only averaged 3.3 rebounds per game. Mayo is a gifted scorer, good shooter and good slasher. That's what he is. He can score at an All Star level when he's the featured guy like he has been these first 11 games in Dallas. But he brings nothing else to the table and he's a bit of a gunner. He has not been an efficient player throughout his career. That 60% 3 pt % is going to come down. He's a career .380 3 pt shooter, not bad, but not great. And his .490 FG% is coming down too, he's a career .435 shooter, again not bad, but not very good. Especially considering how good a slasher he is. Career 14.3 PER, which doesn't even really punish him for his defensive weakness. You really think Gay is the reason Memphis let him walk? They don't even play the same position. They let Mayo walk because they were a better team the less they used him. Tony Allen brought more to the table and they started winning after they demoted Mayo. Mayo is a really smart, humble, hardworking guy by all accounts. Doesn't seem like a bad teammate at all. Has a ton of talent and athleticism. But he's too one dimensional to be the best player for most teams if they want to win. Edited November 19, 2012 by stevemcqueen1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 getting killed by Gordon Hayward...............thats about right Better than Gordon Gecco. Bookers shot is ugly. Looks like a catapult. Now that's funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 I disagree that Beal projects to be better than Mayo. Watch what Mayo does this season. I'd be THRILLED if Beal could match Mayo's rookie numbers this season but I strongly doubt he will. Beal has problems with fundamental skills for guards, like dribbling the ball and creating his own shot. Mayo didnt have those gaps and he had better numbers in college. As for the team, first you win then you get good. This idea of running a basketball camp and molding a championship is absurd. You draft a good player and then you build, fight, and buy yourself the rest of the way. Players will go to a average playoff team much more frequently than a squad wondering when they'll win a damn game. I don't hate Beal, I hate that we put our selves in a position where we have to rely on him. I don't think Mayo's rookie season was that great. If Beal gets comparable minutes and shots to Mayo, I think he could match them. He's probably a more efficient player than Mayo was. Mayo's superior numbers in college don't mean much to me. Kenny Boynton was a JR and Erving Walker was a SR and those were Florida's two main guys prior to Beal. Beal was a freshman and had to claw out PT and shots. I think you're underestimating Beal's ball handling and ability to create off the dribble. I also don't see the point of the Mayo talk. Did you know he turned down many more and bigger contract offers to play in Dallas? He specifically wanted to play for Carlisle and was going to Dallas. There is no way we would have gotten him. The only way a bad team can get good without luring a major FA prize or trading for a Superstar is to buy low on a bunch of talent and then try and keep it together to give it a chance to mature and hopefully the pieces you bought end up getting good. - Memphis - Portland - OKC - San Antonio - Chicago - Indiana - Philly All current teams that built themselves primarily on drafting or buying low on talent and then developing their own. Minnesota and New Orleans probably going down that path too. Teams like Brooklyn, Miami, LA, Boston, and New York that can have it all fall together for them through FA and big time trades are more the exception than the rule. And if you notice, those franchises are in destination cities and/or are storied teams, not laughingstocks like us. DC is not Milwaukee. But it's not New York, LA, or Miami. It's a neutral factor at best. Our only hope of building sustainable success is getting the right people in charge, then getting lucky and having some pieces we buy low on turn into high quality players. Sucks, but the NBA is not a level playing field and right now, we're the bottom of the heap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 How are we always butt up against the cap? Who the hell are we paying? We have a D-league roster. How are we always unable to clear cap space? We'll probably be the worst team in the league and end up with the 4th pick. We have an owner who is blind, a GM who is an idiot and a coach who is stupid. Welcome to the dark side boys. I've been waiting for you. I can see in the last 40 pages or so, the posts are getting worse and worse. It's OK to not have any hope and still be a fan. I kept telling you guys this team was not a playoff team. Hell, I over estimated and gave them 35 wins. I'm changing to 22. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 David Aldridge killing the Wizards. "They have as many wins as the Caps." The Nats have won more recently than the Wizards and they haven't played a game in over a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 The Nats have won more recently than the Wizards and they haven't played a game in over a month. Wow, that hurts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Wow, that hurts. The truth can be quite painful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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