The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[SuperBash]

Better beat Toronto. Toronto plays tonight so If we lose AT HOME to two teams that are playing back to backs, it’s gonna be another disappointing start to the season with the West Coast trip right after. That’s all I’ve got to say

[Renegade7]

One game in and we questioning John's leadership again? Weak.

[Sticksboi05]

12 minutes ago, Fight4RGIII said:

Better beat Toronto. Toronto plays tonight so If we lose AT HOME to two teams that are playing back to backs, it’s gonna be another disappointing start to the season with the West Coast trip right after. That’s all I’ve got to say

 

Loser organization picking up right where it left off if we're being honest.

2 hours ago, CrypticVillain said:

Naw, optimism went out the window when they extended Ernie without telling anyone. I'm going to be hard on them all season. Especially after last night.

 

Same old nonsense...

 

100%. The Knicks may suck but NYC does not accept the Knicks sucking - they just put up with it because they have to. D.C. seems to be okay with 45 win Wizards teams.

 

You extend a loser GM in silence like a coward - no thanks on the patience nonsense.

[TradeTheBeal!]

57 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

One game in and we questioning John's leadership again? Weak.

 

Its kinda pathetic.

[CRobi21]

[Destino]

4 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

One game in and we questioning John's leadership again? Weak.

Not sure how anyone could have watched that game and thought Wall is the problem. Wall was awesome on both ends. It’s not his fault his coach isn’t doing his job.

[Going Commando]

2 hours ago, Destino said:

Not sure how anyone could have watched that game and thought Wall is the problem. Wall was awesome on both ends. It’s not his fault his coach isn’t doing his job.

 

Psst, they didn’t watch it.

 

Blown call my ass. The refs were point shaving and match fixing.  You all think I’m crazy but it’s an endemic problem for the NBA that no one wants to acknowledge.

[TradeTheBeal!]

As usual, Steve is right.  The officiating last night was abysmal and specifically directed to disrupt our big man rotation and get our leading scorer off the floor.

 

It was a disgrace.

[Going Commando]

The thing about the NBA is that everyone has a vested interest in the league's success. Particularly the largest media organization tasked with covering it.  No one has any interest whatsoever in doing anything about the officials.  There was a short lull after the Donaghy situation blew up where they made this big deal about banning refs from gambling and then they quietly ended that policy a couple of years later.

 

The refs getting their side hustle in during regular season games that nobody watches is just an accepted part of the NBA ecosystem.  The players and fans don't like it but they live with it, particularly since the most influential players generally benefit from the way games are called.  The fans don't revolt because most are front runners and people who watch for star player story lines (the wwe fans) and they don't have much of a vested interest in the outcomes of games.  They don't care if the teams with smaller viewing audiences are getting screwed.

[Llevron]

How much do yall think Brooks is responsible for what Westbrook is as a player right now? Good and bad? 

 

I was thinking about this earlier. Kinda wiz related so I put it here. 

 

 

 

[Renegade7]

7 minutes ago, Llevron said:

How much do yall think Brooks is responsible for what Westbrook is as a player right now? Good and bad? 

 

I was thinking about this earlier. Kinda wiz related so I put it here. 

 

There was nothing Brooks could do to stop Westy even if he wanted to.  Someone that tenacious with a coach that addicted to hero ball, they fed off each other.

 

@stevemcqueen1 you think the refs and NBA is against us, or jus a game by game basis?  This is a very large market, wouldnt it be in their best interests for our team to so well and fan base to possibly rival the superpowera in size?  Feel like we always have to win to get respect, which is fair. Respect is different then what you are suggesting. 

[Warhead36]

There is no conspiracy. Its loser talk.

[StillUnknown]

12 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

There is no conspiracy. Its loser talk.

 

I'm beginning to seriously think this is how Grunfeld keeps his job

 

Ted strikes me as the type that can be sold a good conspiracy

 

 

on a different note, Kawhi is looking every bit of his best self in Toronto. Not good for us

Edited October 20, 2018 by StillUnknown

[Mooka]

5 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

There is no conspiracy. Its loser talk.

 

Its not a conspiracy, the refs have biases. That's what Donaghy was betting on, he was feeding insider information on which refs had problems with what teams/players/coaches. 

 

Wall has a reputation with the refs, he doesn't get calls. It leads to the entire team. Not unwarranted either, Wall throws hissy fits, cries way too much. 

 

 

[Going Commando]

57 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 you think the refs and NBA is against us, or jus a game by game basis?  This is a very large market, wouldnt it be in their best interests for our team to so well and fan base to possibly rival the superpowera in size?  Feel like we always have to win to get respect, which is fair. Respect is different then what you are suggesting.  

 

We have a tiny fan base.  We're not a big market team.  The refs don't have it out for us in particular.  They point shave and fix the games of all the teams that nobody watches, which is well over half the league.

 

The NBA is not like the NFL.  The eyeballs migrate with the superstar players for everyone but like six teams.  We've been irrelevant since the late 70's and nobody watches our games.  The refs can do whatever they want to us with impunity.  But we're hardly unique in this situation.

[Renegade7]

51 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

We have a tiny fan base.  We're not a big market team.  The refs don't have it out for us in particular.  They point shave and fix the games of all the teams that nobody watches, which is well over half the league.

 

Not sure those two are the same thing.  Our fan base is small for sucking for so long, but this is a top 10 tv market.  It does feel like the NBA is waiting for us to start winning as opposed to showing us down peoples throats like they do the Knicks because its the larger market in the country.  

 

51 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

The NBA is not like the NFL.  The eyeballs migrate with the superstar players for everyone but like six teams.  We've been irrelevant since the late 70's and nobody watches our games.  The refs can do whatever they want to us with impunity.  But we're hardly unique in this situation.

 

Ya, I don't think enough people see Wall and him not winning makes it worse.  Having said that, hed average 20-10 easy if Brooks could call more target spot up plays for Otto.

1 hour ago, Mooka said:

 

Its not a conspiracy, the refs have biases. That's what Donaghy was betting on, he was feeding insider information on which refs had problems with what teams/players/coaches. 

 

Wall has a reputation with the refs, he doesn't get calls. It leads to the entire team. Not unwarranted either, Wall throws hissy fits, cries way too much. 

 

I don't agree with this at all.  I don't see him worse then most other players that don't get calla regularly, has not LeBron bad.  Usually he throws up his hands when he's picking himself off the floor and running down court, idc about that.

 

Him lot getting calls as our best player effecting calls for his teammates, that's absolutely true.

[Going Commando]

54 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Ya, I don't think enough people see Wall and him not winning makes it worse.

 

Yeah.  I've known this was true for a long time.  One specific example: I can tell that the "Wizards fans" who think Kyrie Irving is better than John don't watch the Wizards games.

 

John is the guy who got me watching Wizards games every other night.  I didn't buy in during the Arenas era.  They were an amusing sideshow.  I didn't believe in them at all and I was an infinitely more invested Redskins fan.  Even Bowden era Nats were a much more rewarding and ineteresting team for me.

 

I've easily watched 80% of John's games.  I can tell which Wizards fans watch all of the games based on the way they talk about John.  John is a bit of a complicated guy and he defies easy narrative definition.  And his skill set is hard to believe unless you see it regularly.  People just can't wrap their head around a point guard regularly stoning bigs on post ups, shutting down 1 on 3s and 4s in transition defense, scoring with power on 1 on 3s and 4s the other way, weakside rim protecting like a big, running pick and rolls like Steve Nash, and passing guys open 10+ times a game.  He's a ****ing 6'4 LeBron.  But he's Southern.  He's more volatile and he's lazier and less committed.

 

56 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Not sure those two are the same thing.  Our fan base is small for sucking for so long, but this is a top 10 tv market.  It does feel like the NBA is waiting for us to start winning as opposed to showing us down peoples throats like they do the Knicks because its the larger market in the country.   

 

Wizards fans who live in Montgomery County and Fairfax don't see what the rest of us see.  The Wizards don't exist outside of that tiny zone.  We're, at best, the third most popular NBA team throughout the rest of VA.

 

It's not just about losing.  The Redskins have been embarrassing for a long time too but still have a potent fan base.  The NBA has a fundamentally different way of presenting and selling their product.  They don't build strong regional franchise fanbases.  The average NBA fan follows players, not teams.  Meaning, they like dramatic player narratives and don't really care about what happens to their hometown teams.  If they claim to follow a team, they'll say they are Lakers, Celtics, Knicks, Bulls (or whatever team LeBron is on) fans and watch at most 20 regular season games a year.  Or if they're kids under the age of 20, they'll say they are Warriors fans.  The NBA has a front-running, casual fanbase who engages with the league and their fandom through video games and peripheral products until the playoffs come along, rather than grinding out a ton of regular season games with their in-market team.  Several million Redskins fans tune in to the team's games every week.  Dallas week Redskins vs Cowboys games get like 22 million viewers for the regional Fox broadcast.  A typical Wizards game gets like a .8 rating.  There are almost certainly less than a million active Wizards fans worldwide.  And even that's substantially better than the bottom of the barrel in the NBA.  We're in a similar boat to the rest of the NBA teams that aren't heavy weights and don't have LeBron on the roster.  Although I do think our geographic territory is significantly smaller than a bunch of the other second and third rate franchises.  The second raters like Portland and Dallas and Indiana seem to get more regional support.  We're a third rater like Sacramento and New Orleans and Memphis.

 

The general rule is that the vast majority of the NBA's fan base only tunes in for the holiday games and the playoffs.  They follow the league without watching it.

[Renegade7]

@stevemcqueen1 you hit nail on the head in regards to fans typically focusing on players instead of fans an it not being as common to watch the majority of a singe teams games.  It's why I'm frustrated we can't get more primetime games, Wall gets very little to any national exposure.  It doesn't seem to top people from having a strong opinion on him, right or wrong.

 

Having our glory days in the 70s is another reason our fan base is non-existent today.  I was 3 last time redskins one a championship, my dad was a teenager last time the Bullets did.  I'd like to see what multiple championship runs would do to our fanbase and national perception, but honestly believe we are running out of time for that.  We're getting to a point where are making Wall not getting one here at all.

 

 

[Chachie]

22 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

One game in and we questioning John's leadership again? Weak.

 

17 hours ago, Destino said:

Not sure how anyone could have watched that game and thought Wall is the problem. Wall was awesome on both ends. It’s not his fault his coach isn’t doing his job.

 

 

He's always an awesome player. His mental and physical effort is a great example. The reason I question his leadership is because it takes more than that to set a season-long tone. Every player is expected to give their all mentally and physically during a game. However, the self-professed leader of the team has to dial back his own hype in order to keep the others feeling involved and supported.

 

Every time I see JW wasting time gazing at the audience with his bicep flexed I cringe. My studio had the opportunity to send a camera crew to a couple days of Wizards practice last season and we saw first-hand the way he behaves in practice. From what we saw, the other players obviously recognize his talent but resent/regret his need for attention and his desire to establish that he's the alpha instead of building up and inspiring the self esteem of the the men around him. Beal seems play that role a lot better. 

 

I love me some JW. He's the best player on the team, he stays in shape, and he's not lazy on the court... but he doesn't get the big picture. IMHO it's the 2nd biggest thing holding this team back from real consistency and perhaps a championship run. (The first is coaching. An entirely new conversation.)

Edited October 20, 2018 by Chachie

[CRobi21]

Another break from opposing teams inactives. 

 

 

Let's see if they actually take advantage tonight.

[Chachie]

1 hour ago, CRobi21 said:

Another break from opposing teams inactives. 

 

 

Let's see if they actually take advantage tonight.

 

 

Do you know how salty I will be if they lose to the Leonard-free, unrested Raptors tonight? Man, I'm almost afraid to watch. That's how jaded I am after that Heat game.  Still grumpy over that one. 

[Destino]

5 hours ago, Chachie said:

Every time I see JW wasting time gazing at the audience with his bicep flexed I cringe. My studio had the opportunity to send a camera crew to a couple days of Wizards practice last season and we saw first-hand the way he behaves in practice. From what we saw, the other players obviously recognize his talent but resent/regret his need for attention and his desire to establish that he's the alpha instead of building up and inspiring the self esteem of the the men around him. Beal seems play that role a lot better.

I haven't had a chance to watch their practices but I've thought, and posted, similar things to what you're saying here.  Wall isn't a great leader and the locker room does not love him.  We saw this play out last season and I'd rather not go down the list of things that I think contrasted Wall and Beal's leadership styles again. 

 

Here's the problem I have with this though, the leadership this team lacks isn't from a player.  Sure Wall could be a better leader but that wouldn't change the fact that the GM has overseen a poisonous culture for more then a decade.  It wouldn't change the fact that Scott Brooks isn't qualified for the job he currently holds.  Wall being friendly isn't going to draw up better plays, install a better offense, or result in a polished "well coached" defense.  It certainly wouldn't change the culture of mediocrity Grunfeld has established. 

 

This team does lack leadership, but the leadership it needs most isn't at the player level.  Wall is the teams best player and the team is better with him on the floor.  They'd be better still with a better coach and GM. 

 

 

[Chachie]

1 minute ago, Destino said:

I haven't had a chance to watch their practices but I've thought, and posted, similar things to what you're saying here.  Wall isn't a great leader and the locker room does not love him.  We saw this play out last season and I'd rather not go down the list of things that I think made contrasted Wall and Beal's leadership styles again. 

 

Here's the problem I have with this though, the leadership this team lacks isn't from a player.  Sure Wall could be a better leader but that wouldn't change the fact that the GM has overseen a poisonous culture for more then a decade.  It wouldn't change the fact that Scott Brooks isn't qualified for the job he currently holds.  Wall being friendly isn't going to draw up better plays, install a better offense, or result in a polished "well coached" defense.  It certainly wouldn't change the culture of mediocrity Grunfeld has established. 

 

This team does lack leadership, but the leadership it needs most isn't at the player level.  Wall is the teams best player and the team is better with him on the floor.  They'd be better still with a better coach and GM. 

 

 

 

I certainly won't contest those rebuttals. 

[Skin'emAlive]

I may have been severely misinformed about Toronto’s fall. God, they’ve looked legit. We have the most talent I’ve ever seen in Washington, but we are handicapped by poor coaching. 

[StillUnknown]

2 hours ago, Destino said:

Here's the problem I have with this though, the leadership this team lacks isn't from a player.  Sure Wall could be a better leader but that wouldn't change the fact that the GM has overseen a poisonous culture for more then a decade.  It wouldn't change the fact that Scott Brooks isn't qualified for the job he currently holds.  Wall being friendly isn't going to draw up better plays, install a better offense, or result in a polished "well coached" defense.  It certainly wouldn't change the culture of mediocrity Grunfeld has established. 

 

This team does lack leadership, but the leadership it needs most isn't at the player level.  Wall is the teams best player and the team is better with him on the floor.  They'd be better still with a better coach and GM. 

 

Grunfeld gave that man a team with Blatche, Young, Gil, & McGee and said go lead. Its amazing he still has his sanity when you think on it

 

the veteran "leaders" that were on the team always seemed to be on 1yr deals and out the door the following year. At some point in time, Wall probably could have been a good leader, but the organization failed him and its setting up nicely for him to be Grunfeld next scapegoat