ES Soccer Thread

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

And how many goals did Arsenal score against that abomination of a club?

1.

Uno.

Smh

[SJValleySkinz]

Writing was on the wall. now to see who comes in. As much as I'd like Jurgen i think someone needs to give Bayern a run in Bunda. I follow that club a lot and its the only one who can truly go toe to toe though right now they've been on the losing end too. Jurgen may go just because he keeps having players stolen away that he basically molded. You know the Utd board is kicking themselves for missing out on Mourinho.

That entire league is Bayern's feeder club how exactly is anyone supposed to go toe to toe with them at this point? It's the only league in the world you can win 2 title in a row and be forced to lose 2 of your best players to your biggest rival. Klopp won't manage United either way though I think it's Van Haal's job.

On the plus side he's (hopefully) done enough short term damage to roll into the long term. Missing Europe completely will be a big step to that end.

It's been highly amusing watching Gary Neville lay into Utd for not giving him more time, the players for repeatedly letting everyone down et all.

'Just an other club' in Neville's words.

Enjoy Gary. We've had 2 decades and more of that.

Hail.

I admire your optimism but he wasnt even in charge for a full season. Financially and reputation wise United can take one year in two decades without CL football. Not entirely sold on Van Gaal but he can attract the players we need and get back into the CL.

[MisterPinstripe]

That entire league is Bayern's feeder club how exactly is anyone supposed to go toe to toe with them at this point? It's the only league in the world you can win 2 title in a row and be forced to lose 2 of your best players to your biggest rival. Klopp won't manage United either way though I think it's Van Haal's job.

I admire your optimism but he wasnt even in charge for a full season. Financially and reputation wise United can take one year in two decades without CL football. Not entirely sold on Van Gaal but he can attract the players we need and get back into the CL.

Not even Europa. I think you are underestimating the effect that Fergi had, dont think it will be so easy to claim a CL spot next year. Liverpool, Chelsea and Man City are top 3, with Arsenal and Everton fighting for 4th. Manchester United is going to hop over 2 of those clubs for CL next year?

[SJValleySkinz]

Not even Europa. I think you are underestimating the effect that Fergi had, dont think it will be so easy to claim a CL spot next year. Liverpool, Chelsea and Man City are top 3, with Arsenal and Everton fighting for 4th. Manchester United is going to hop over 2 of those clubs for CL next year?

I've been following the club since 1990 so trust me I'm well aware he is a once in a lifetime manager and nobody will repeat what he has done. I also think you're underestimating how bad Moyes was and with all due respect to Arsenal and Everton Man Utd with a competent manager and a strengthened squad have no eeason to be afraid of them. I admit we'll have to wait and see who Van Gaal brings in and how they mesh before I even talk about challenging Chelsea, Liverpool and City but the most important thing at the moment is avoiding irreperable damage. There is no reason for the United that Fergie built to fall off the map completely if they are not diabolically missmanaged like they were at Moyes' hands.

As Liverpool can tell you, not being in the Europa league isnt the end of the world.

Edited April 22, 2014 by SJValleySkinz

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

.....

I admire your optimism but he wasnt even in charge for a full season. Financially and reputation wise United can take one year in two decades without CL football. Not entirely sold on Van Gaal but he can attract the players we need and get back into the CL.

I wouldn't be sold on Van Gaal either if he is to be the next Utd manager. He'd be a short term answer to a long term problem.

Getting back into the top 4 is FAR from a given. The top 4 isn't just 4 clubs now. City changed that and now you have the return to National prominence of both Merseyside clubs along with Tottenham there or there abouts. If you think it's as easy as spending money then you're setting yourself up for big disapponent. Reputation and history only goes so far with modern day footballers. They want the biggest stage which is the Champions League. And the longer you spend out, the harder it is to get back in. As we stand, Inited are looking at NO European football at all. Try selling that one through a major rebuild. Everything then follows. And you end up over paying for substandard players that shouldn't be at the club to start with.

I speak from experience as I'd never of thought back in 1990 we'd be still waiting for another title 24 years later.

Hail.

*Edit* Another thing to bare in mind I read recently ..... On average through Europes top 5 leagues, teams that drop out for a season take 5-6 years to get back in.

What season were Liverpool last in the Champions League anybody?

Edited April 22, 2014 by Gibbs Hog Heaven

[SJValleySkinz]

I wouldn't be sold on Van Gaal either if he is to be the next Utd manager. He'd be a short term answer to a long term problem.

Getting back into the top 4 is FAR from a given. The top 4 isn't just 4 clubs now. City changed that and now you have the return to National prominence of both Merseyside clubs along with Tottenham there or there abouts. If you think it's as easy as spending money then you're setting yourself up for big disapponent. Reputation and history only goes so far with modern day footballers. They want the biggest stage which is the Champions League. And the longer you spend out, the harder it is to get back in. As we stand, Inited are looking at NO European football at all. Try selling that one through a major rebuild. Everything then follows. And you end up over paying for substandard players that shouldn't be at the club to start with.

I speak from experience as I'd never of thought back in 1990 we'd be still waiting for another title 24 years later.

Hail.

 

Two completely different situations. Football as a whole is a completely different ball game but English football specifically is completely unrecognizable today if you compare it to 1990. Nothing is guaranteed but there's no reason not to be able to finish 4th with a semi competent manager and staying in the CL is indeed the key to surviving the transitional period. Reputation won't help if that doesn't happen but United's reputation can survive missing out for one season.

[MisterPinstripe]

I've been following the club since 1990 so trust me I'm well aware he is a once in a lifetime manager and nobody will repeat what he has done. I also think you're underestimating how bad Moyes was and with all due respect to Arsenal and Everton Man Utd with a competent manager and a strengthened squad have no eeason to be afraid of them. I admit we'll have to wait and see who Van Gaal brings in and how they mesh before I even talk about challenging Chelsea, Liverpool and City but the most important thing at the moment is avoiding irreperable damage. There is no reason for the United that Fergie built to fall off the map completely if they are not diabolically missmanaged like they were at Moyes' hands.

As Liverpool can tell you, not being in the Europa league isnt the end of the world.

lol, I may have underestimated how bad Moyes was at the beginning, and thats say something because I felt he would bomb at United. But he has been epically bad, its been fun to watch.

 

The thing is, the quality of players at Manchester United right now really isnt great. Van Persie is, Rooney is, Mata is, but outside of that most of the players arent.

 

The EPL is becoming more competitive these days, its no longer the top 4 and everyone else is just well below.

 

So without Fergi, why is it that Arsenal and Everton are just no match for United?

Edited April 22, 2014 by MisterPinstripe

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

.....

As Liverpool can tell you, not being in the Europa league isnt the end of the world.

It is when you eventually get back in as your coefficient will drop heavily and the draws get REAL tough the longer you spend out.

Hail.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Two completely different situations......

Hey, no skin off my nose if you want to bury your head in the sand. I was doing the same back in the '90's. And one season rolled into another season and another season. For a start you're looking at more or less a completely new back line. That's before you start on any other areas. Throw in a new manager with new ideas and teams no longer fearful of going to Utd, and there's little to suggest the start of next year would be any different to this. Then your playing catch-up. Missing out again. And the knock-on effect is catastrophic.

That's another thing Inited haven't had to deal with. A year or two with no Champions League money. See how fast the Glaziers tighten their belts without that revenue.

Until you turn it around on the pitch, you are now just A N Other football club with money and reputation that will fast be forgotten by today's top players.

Hail.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Gibbs Hog Heaven

[DCranon21]

Moyes just breaks records:

 

 

- Lowest Premier League points tally in club history

- Never finished below third in the Premier League until now (1st 13 times; 2nd 5 times; 3rd 3 times)

- Three defeats in a row for the first time since 2001

- Eleven Premier League defeats

- First home defeat to Swansea

- First home defeat to Newcastle since 1972

- First home defeat to West Brom since 1978

- First league defeat to Stoke since 1984

- First home defeat to Everton since 1992

- First time Manchester City, Everton and Liverpool have done the double over United in the Premier League

- First time United have conceded a first-minute goal in the Premier League

- First defeat on New Year's Day in 20 years

- Knocked out of the FA Cup in the third round (happened just once under Ferguson)

 

That's way too many 1st and records broken on the wrong side of the spectrum.

[SJValleySkinz]

Hey, no skin off my nose if you want to bury your head in the sand. I was doing the same back in the '90's. And one season rolled into another season and another season. For a start you're looking at more or less a completely new back line. That's before you start on any other areas. Throw in a new manager with new ideas and teams no longer fearful of going to Utd, and there's little to suggest the start of next year would be any different to this. Then your playing catch-up. Missing out again. And the knock-on effect is catastrophic.

That's another thing Inited haven't had to deal with. A year or two with no Champions League money. See how fast the Glaziers tighten their belts without that revenue.

Until you turn it around on the pitch, you are now just A N Other football club with money and reputation that will fast be forgotten by today's top players.

Hail.

 

All that's missing from that prayer is a sacrifice and an altar. I don't need an education in what needs to happen for United to go t*** up but the fact is that we might as well be talking about two different planets if we're going to compare English league football today to what it was back then. At the time no club in the top division, even the one that was winning it could attract a player like Suarez when he was at Ajax. Hell today some of the caliber of player the clubs in the bottom half of the league were attracting would not have entertained the idea of moving to United, Liverpool or Arsenal in the early 90's. Until UEFA came down on our league in 85 if I'm not mistaken it became the dominant power in Europe on the back of mostly British players. Not so much the case anymore.

It is when you eventually get back in as your coefficient will drop heavily and the draws get REAL tough the longer you spend out.

Hail.

 

I was referring to the positive effect it can have on domestic endeavors.

Edited April 22, 2014 by SJValleySkinz

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

All that's missing from that prayer is a sacrifice and an altar..... .

I love the arrogance of Utd and their fans. 'It can't happen to us. We're the mighty Manchester United blah blah blah.'

That's a big reason why you're disliked with a passion Country wide ala the Cowboys in the States.

The ironic thing is after going 26 years without a league title pre-Premier League you'd think the warning signs would be there of just how it can go to **** rapidly.

Hail.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Gibbs Hog Heaven

[SJValleySkinz]

I love the arrogance of Utd and their fans. 'It can't happen to us. We're the mighty Manchester United blah blah blah.'

That's a big reason why you're disliked with a passion Country wide ala the Cowboys in the States.

The ironic thing is after going 26 years without a league title pre-Premier League you'd think the warning signs would be there of just how it can go to **** rapidly.

Hail.

 

The difference is the Cowboys play in a league with parity. It can happen, but it would take someone supremely unqualified (Moyes) to make it happen and it's certainly a lot harder to accomplish than it was in 1990.

[MartinC]

On the plus side he's (hopefully) done enough short term damage to roll into the long term. Missing Europe completely will be a big step to that end.

It's been highly amusing watching Gary Neville lay into Utd for not giving him more time, the players for repeatedly letting everyone down et all.

'Just an other club' in Neville's words.

Enjoy Gary. We've had 2 decades and more of that.

Hail.

 

I have to say as much as I disliked Gary Neville when he was a United player he is very good in his TV role. He speaks his mind and imparts good information and insight. 

[jobaga]

If you look at Liverpool's rise back to prominence. They had to overpay for Hendo, Carroll and Downing with only Hendo actually paying off. They had one of their best players leave for a rival. Suarez, Coutinho and Sturridge have all been much better than their price tag. Then you add in youth players like Sterling and Flanno are playing fantastic. 

 

How long until RVP and Rooney want to leave for another team? How much longer will Chicarito be happy with his playing time? With FFP looming, how many misses can United afford to make? Are the back 4 good enough? How long until De Gea wants to go back to Spain? Is Cleaverly good enough? Will Scholes retire? 

 

I'm not saying United can't return to glory, but there is a lot of work to be done. If FFP has teeth, it will make the rebuild that much harder. How patient will the fans be?

Edited April 22, 2014 by jobaga

[RichmondRedskin88]

The right manager can lure good players.  Get some key players with the manager and if they mix well with the current ones Utd could be back to a Champions CL spot fairly quickly.  The point is the cut off the damage quickly.  One season hurts but could have been much worse if they allowed it to go more a few more years.

[MisterPinstripe]

The right manager can lure good players.  Get some key players with the manager and if they mix well with the current ones Utd could be back to a Champions CL spot fairly quickly.  The point is the cut off the damage quickly.  One season hurts but could have been much worse if they allowed it to go more a few more years.

Its possible, but I think the difficulty of it, especially in the first year, is underestimated after the years with Fergi. Now you have to fight Liverpool, Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Everton, and Spurs for a top 4 spot. The gap and room for error is getting smaller and FFP could also impact it as well.

I think Fergi had those players playing at a much higher level than another manager will be able to achieve. They need to revamp their back four, most of the midfield, and hope Van Persie can keep from being injured. His last year with Arsenal and first with United are the only times that has happened. Him being injured is more the norm.

[MartinC]

The right manager can lure good players.  Get some key players with the manager and if they mix well with the current ones Utd could be back to a Champions CL spot fairly quickly.  The point is the cut off the damage quickly.  One season hurts but could have been much worse if they allowed it to go more a few more years.

 But can they get the right manager? 

 

It might actually be an easier sell now someone is replacing Moyes not Ferguson - but whoever comes in has a HUGE job ahead of them which will involve a lot of player turnover. You need at least 5 new high quality players bringing in who will be part of your starting 11 - thats a tough ask in a pool in which all the big fish are also hunting.

 

Who they go after, and who they end up with, as manager will be very very interesting.

[jobaga]

 

It might actually be an easier sell now someone is replacing Moyes not Ferguson - but whoever comes in has a HUGE job ahead of them which will involve a lot of player turnover. You need at least 5 new high quality players bringing in who will be part of your starting 11 - thats a tough ask in a pool in which all the big fish are also hunting.

 

 

 

I will also assume that Barcelona will appeal their transfer ban hoping to push it back a window or two and be extremely active this summer to prepare for the ban.

[SJValleySkinz]

I love the arrogance of Utd and their fans. 'It can't happen to us. We're the mighty Manchester United blah blah blah.'

That's a big reason why you're disliked with a passion Country wide ala the Cowboys in the States.

The ironic thing is after going 26 years without a league title pre-Premier League you'd think the warning signs would be there of just how it can go to **** rapidly.

Hail.

 

So is it "black Tuesday" or are United screwed no matter what?

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

So is it "black Tuesday" or are United screwed no matter what?

Time will tell if Utd's cycle is at an end.

If you're asking me what I think, then I believe it is and the next few years are going to be a rude awaking for you.

Feel free to quote and revisit that this time next year.

Hail.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Gibbs Hog Heaven

[Old Bay]

Welcome to mortality like most football fans have to deal with on a constant basis.

[DC9]

And how many goals did Arsenal score against that abomination of a club?

1.

Uno.

Smh

 

Hey, that's one more goal than United scored against Liverpool

Welcome to mortality like most football fans have to deal with on a constant basis.

 

the entitlement is what's most hilarious.

 

Like "this isn't allowed to happen" versus "this can't be happening" or "why is this happening".

 

This is why I didn't sell my Redskins vs Cowboys tickets in 2012 when I was offered almost $2,000 for them by a Cowboys fan.  My wife grounded me for a week, but you should never get too comfortable.  I didn't get $2k, but I got to see (and appreciate) my team win a division championship for the first time since I was in high school, and look a real threat for the first time since I was about seven years old.

Edited April 22, 2014 by DC9

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Welcome to mortality like most football fans have to deal with on a constant basis.

Be interesting to see how they react in general after a few lean years.

Hail.

[SJValleySkinz]

Fact still remains the odds of United going belly up have now dramatically decreased. BTW, this "entitlement" wouldn't happen to be based on any sort of achievements would it? Why is it less asinine to assume that just because something happened to Liverpool a quarter of a century ago it will happen to United now? Desperately hoping for something to happen on either side of the spectrum doesn't make it more likely. Funny fans of a team that has averaged a title every other season for the past 26 expect to continue to compete at the top. Just some idea we pulled out of our rear ends.

 

Another question that has me stumped is that money, reputation and global support is what it takes to keep every other club at the top, but for some reason it won't be enough for United. Seems like you guys are just as blinded by hope as the "entitled" United supporters.

Edited April 22, 2014 by SJValleySkinz