Food Stamps: A Rant.

[zoony]

Putting restrictions on the type of food that food stamps can be used for will increase bureaucracy, not decrease it. Can you imagine the logistical and political problems around trying to decide exactly which brands of food should be allowed?

1 competent computer programmer plus one retail management consultant could push out a program in less than a week that identifies applicable foods by their 12 digit UPC.

Beyond that it would be simple maintenance of a staff of, say, 2-3 people. Company wishes to have its product included in the UPC database, it must meet certain criteria, then submit an application to the group of 2-3 people for approval.

Food is approved, UPC is added to the database, done.

......

[RdsknsFtbll1]

Did it ever cross your mind that those people are getting the money for those things elsewhere? Welfare is not enough money for that lifestyle. There's something more insidious going on if they can afford a lexus. Course those people don't deserve welfare if they're making their money illegally. But again, why do you assume their are the rule and not the exception?

Well first off I work extensively in these communities. Of course welfare isnt enough income in and of itself to live these lifestyles so you are making my point... the ones living these lifestyles but still drawing welfare are abusing the system... YES they are most of the time getting their income illegally but are still sucking off the Government teet. I know of one situation where this girl works as a Bus Monitor for the Public Schools system here. she makes about 14,000 a year and has 3 children. She literally brags about the fact that her kids are on FAMIS and that the "baby daddy's" name isnt on the birth certificate so she gets Aid for Dependent Children from the State. Her "Man's" name isnt on her lease so she doesnt have to pay anything (he is also the "Baby Daddy") and she refuses to marry him because then they would have to move. He is a network IT guy making about 85,000 a year. Since his name isnt listed on anything she is circumventing the system. If that doesnt piss you off I dont know what will...

[RdsknsFtbll1]

You know an awful lot about people on welfare. Do you know any or are you just swallowing whatever comes down the pike via the Fox Network? Just curious. Also, you don't act like a newbie... you act like this is a dupe account.

I know ALOT of people on medicare. As I said in one of my other posts, I work extensively in these communities. I see it every single day. I see the abuse and I see and hear the people bragging about it. I am not just talking off the top of my head, I am speak for real life personal experience. If you've not seen this type of thing consider yourself lucky. If you have and are justifying it, then please put down the kool-aide.

[polywog999]

I know ALOT of people on medicare. As I said in one of my other posts, I work extensively in these communities. I see it every single day. I see the abuse and I see and hear the people bragging about it. I am not just talking off the top of my head, I am speak for real life personal experience. If you've not seen this type of thing consider yourself lucky. If you have and are justifying it, then please put down the kool-aide.

I think you are full of kool-aid yourself. My original position, that you keep trying to push me out of, is that know one knows the real story of the lady in the scooter.

I live in a very bad neighborhood in south Baltimore. I see the abuses too and I am sickened by it, but the fact that you asked me if I was on welfare is...

1 Incredibly boorish

2 Shows that you are a judgmental person

3 none of your darn business anyway.

If you really must know, as if It made any difference, I am not on welfare. Did not want to even address that, but I am sick and tired of your smug attitude.

Your opening post was disgraceful, instead of owning up to that or apologizing, you have chosen instead to defend, what to me and others, have viewed as a very raciest rant. What the hell do reparations have to do with welfare? You made it sound like only black people were on welfare and than you try and justify it through your wife. I have meet people like this before and they turn my stomach. Dating, or being married to someone of color does not give you a pass to say anything you want and make you somehow beyond reproach. I do not care what color anyone is! OK? It makes no difference to me at all. By that same token, I cut no special breaks for people based on anything other than individual merit.

Good day sir.

[The 12th Commandment]

I know ALOT of people on medicare. As I said in one of my other posts, I work extensively in these communities. I see it every single day. I see the abuse and I see and hear the people bragging about it. I am not just talking off the top of my head, I am speak for real life personal experience. If you've not seen this type of thing consider yourself lucky. If you have and are justifying it, then please put down the kool-aide.

Once you've excepted that it's not welfare enabling people to fund extravagant lifestyle, but drug dealing, then why would still make the argument with respect to welfare? You don't know how to have a lucid discussion and we're supposed to trust your anecdote based thoughts on hundreds of thousands of people or we're drinking kool-aid? That's a worn out, annoying non-productive phrase anyway (which you can't even spell right).

[polywog999]

1 competent computer programmer plus one retail management consultant could push out a program in less than a week that identifies applicable foods by their 12 digit UPC.

Beyond that it would be simple maintenance of a staff of, say, 2-3 people. Company wishes to have its product included in the UPC database, it must meet certain criteria, then submit an application to the group of 2-3 people for approval.

Food is approved, UPC is added to the database, done.

......

Zoony, If this makes you happy, than I'm all for it.

We could go one step further and make welfare people eat three year old pickled dogs feet. That will teach those lazy good for nothings to get out and find work. Unfortunately, Some people really can't work; like my friend Mike. He rides a scooter too, because he has no hands or feet. He was beat up and left in freezing snow and succumbed to frostbite. He is severely bi-polar and uses his whole check to pay for his rent. If it weren't for food stamps, he would not eat.

[December90]

Like 95% of them.

I think social programs and food stamps are a great thing, I really do. But when you see the kind of abuse going on and the state of obesity in this country, time for a reality check.

......

This is the exact problem that I have with most of the Government Social policy. We have to deal with the unintended consequences (Although I am becoming more convinced that sometimes the consequences are intended)

The problem with Government social programs in general and food stamps in particular is that the state creates a dependency that they then do not allow the recipients to outgrow. When you pay for sloth, it is not entirely surprising that you get more sloth.

[December90]

You mean Adult Wic. Don't know and somewhat makes since. As frustrated as I am with the woman whom Zoony mention, I have to ask myself do people whom are an economical disadvantage still have free will? Tough debate.

I had a doctor that told me one time "people whom smoke should not be able to receive government assistance". At first I agree with him, but then I thought well does that person have the right to choose? Once again tought debate.

Again the problem with "government assistance" is that when the government provides the funds for something then they have some means of control for the person receiving it.

To your point about the "People whom smoke should not be able to receive government assistance...does that person have a right to choose?"

That person has a right to choose, but then one of the consequences of their choice would be loss of the government aid. You do have free will, but I (we) shouldn't have to pay for their bad choices. People always seem to think that freedom is a one sided coin. Freedom to fail is part of freedom. Freedom should not simply be the absence of consequences for your own actions.

[Ryman of the North]

Once you've excepted that it's not welfare enabling people to fund extravagant lifestyle, but drug dealing, then why would still make the argument with respect to welfare? You don't know how to have a lucid discussion and we're supposed to trust your anecdote based thoughts on hundreds of thousands of people or we're drinking kool-aid? That's a worn out, annoying non-productive phrase anyway (which you can't even spell right).

criticising someone elses spelling when in your first 3 words you have used a malapropism is not very swift.

[No_Pressure]

There are thousands of cases like that woman. She is somebody who clearly is using government money incorrectly. People will take advantage of every situation they are given generally. The programs they're raping were intended to help people in need, but how often do they honestly help them rather than foster one of the problems which put them in their needy position to begin with?

I would love to see unbiased statistics on how effective programs like food stamps/welfare and unemployment money really are, because it seems like that number of stories of people who were saved by those safety nets and turned their lives around to become productive citizens once again would be greatly outnumbered by stories of people who said "I'm getting unemployment to pay for stuff right now so why look for a job?" or people who take food stamps and buy 6 Freschetta/Digiorno pizzas for 50 dollars when they could have bought enough basic foods to eat for a few weeks with that much money.

As far as I can tell the programs which actually help people are medicare/medicaid, social security (though not everybody which is unfair if you have to pay into it forever, and it cannot sustain itself), and student loans/aid.

[Pwyl]

1 competent computer programmer plus one retail management consultant could push out a program in less than a week that identifies applicable foods by their 12 digit UPC.

Beyond that it would be simple maintenance of a staff of, say, 2-3 people. Company wishes to have its product included in the UPC database, it must meet certain criteria, then submit an application to the group of 2-3 people for approval.

Food is approved, UPC is added to the database, done.

......

This is not even remotely an accurate assessment. You sound like some of the people I've had to work with in the past :pfft:

[stevenaa]

Zoony, If this makes you happy, than I'm all for it.

We could go one step further and make welfare people eat three year old pickled dogs feet. That will teach those lazy good for nothings to get out and find work. Unfortunately, Some people really can't work; like my friend Mike. He rides a scooter too, because he has no hands or feet. He was beat up and left in freezing snow and succumbed to frostbite. He is severely bi-polar and uses his whole check to pay for his rent. If it weren't for food stamps, he would not eat.

How exactly is supporting assistance for the needy, such as your friend, while wanting to put in place measures to reduce fraud a bad thing?

[joeknows]

omg...I think that is the main problem with California, the fact that they DON'T tax food. Our state would not be in the financial pickle it is in now if it taxed food.

I can understand not taxing milk, bread, eggs, cheese, etc. Fine. But do people really notice when their grocery bill goes up $5 for taxes?

If they stop taxing food, you're gonna have to get that money from somewhere else...just another reason for taxpayers to resent social services.

no the problem in california has nothing to do with lack of sales tax on food. in fact that tax wouldnt make dent of a difference. the problem with california is the ridiculous amount of spending and the burden of the illegals. until your politicians get their crap together you can expect to be taxed more and more ..... while they continue to spend more and more. im one who believes that necessities of life should be tax free.

[Prosperity]

no the problem in california has nothing to do with lack of sales tax on food. in fact that tax wouldnt make dent of a difference. the problem with california is the ridiculous amount of spending and the burden of the illegals. until your politicians get their crap together you can expect to be taxed more and more ..... while they continue to spend more and more. im one who believes that necessities of life should be tax free.

how do you know if any of what you said is true?

[kiingspadee]

I work in the grocery store and I have to tell you it happens all the time. They always come through and are obnoxious and buying a bunch of worthless crap that if THEY WERE PAYING FOR IT I could care less but when it's my money yeah I care.

And just word of advice....be nice to your cashiers at the grocery store - I mean I may accidentally as I am putting your precious eggs in the plastic bag i may just quickly squeeze the bottom and crack a few. You'd never know the difference. And if you did notice you'd drive all the way back to the store and just think that it was your own doing.

[polywog999]

How exactly is supporting assistance for the needy, such as your friend, while wanting to put in place measures to reduce fraud a bad thing?

Not sure I understand your question, I think I was commenting on the seemingly prevailing notion, that all people on welfare drive a big expensive car and are in good enough shape to play fullback for the Skins.

[The 12th Commandment]

criticising someone elses spelling when in your first 3 words you have used a malapropism is not very swift.

Never claimed to be very swift. :pfft: Do you have kool-aid in Canadian politics? It's way over used and I'll stand by my point however ineloquent my delivery was.

[Redskinzfan30]

I'm not shocked to hear these things - we've all seen it at some time or another.

Most of you know that I have MS and I refuse to use handicapped status and/or parking. I have it - just in case. Eating right, exercising, and providing for myself is a way of life. Not saying that I'm better than this woman or anyone else, but the word "responsibility" was part of the vocabulary since early childhood.

Perhaps it is time to tweak the laws a bit to the point where others can learn responsible behavior.

My father has MS too and for as long as he could he wouldn't use the handicapped services. He didn't want help he was like you and believed that it was his responsibility to take care of himself not others.

[pointyfootball]

The OP is frustrating to see, and it is the government assistance story most often heard on TV/radio. Obviously there are a lot of people who desparately need the help and are responsible with the the assistance given them. The goal of any social programs should be to be one of temporary support until the person/family can get back on their feet and be on their own financially. This is the part that it seems people get the most frustrated with, as the feeling is that people do not do their part to move away from the public teat. On the opposite end are those that feel assistance should not be cut off as long as that person/persons are needy, no matter the abuse.

The real issue, as I see it, is that we have allowed our federal, state and local governments to manipulate us through entitlements. People accepting government assistance will be led to believe that if they vote for the other person/party, that they will lose their money. Middle-class families vote is swayed by the promise of more/easier college loan funding. On and on. We've become addicted to it, and we belly up to the trough like starving chickens, waiting for a handful of corn to be thrown at us. Tax rebate for buying a home? GULP. No-interest student loan while in college? PECK-PECK.

I get as angry as the next person seeing someone abuse a system that was intended to help the helpless. But let's face it, government handouts are taken (and occasionally abused) by people across all economic spectrums. I'll take it a step further and say I would bet middle class "handouts" are more expensive for the government than food stamps/welfare for extremely low-income families.

Cash-for-clunkers

College loans

grants

Tax breaks/incentives (mortgage interest, children, child-care, etc)

FHA loans

small business loans

industry bailouts

social security/medicare for retirees with significant retirement income

unemployment benefits

farm subsidies

etc.

[gbear]

Ok, I've read through the first 12 pages of this thread, and one of the things that surprised me was the all food stamp programs are the same and everything we see as abuse is abuse.

You see a federal government employee (you know by the badge) in front of you in line at the grocery store. He has chocolate bars, carbonated water, chips, a few frozen dinners, baby formula, baby food and wipes. He uses what you assume are food stamp vouchers.

Are you pissed? What if you knew he made $70k a year?:evilg:

For a while, that was me. The food stamps were only for the premi baby formula. The rest was paid for by me. The formula was expensive at the rate our foster kid needed it, and we paid for the wipes & diapers as expenses any kid would incur. While my wife and I don't foster for the money as we would make more per hour at McDonalds, should we lose money hand over fist?

The rest of the purchases were paid for me at work...and no I don't think I should for go them to justify some on looker's sense of what somebody who uses food stamps should be allowed to purchase.:cool:

I'd note the WIC stamps (which were checks) we used were good for very specific items down to the brand of formula and size. I see all the references to using them for candy and steaks, and I cringe at the overly broad brush being used on programs not at all run like the ones my family has used.

I understand and agree with the desire for more tailored programs. I as another person in this thread with MS would also note that many in this thread make judgments with little or no knowledge of people or circumstance other than what you have seen in front of you right then...and often that is but a small part of the story.

[Ryman of the North]

Never claimed to be very swift. :pfft: Do you have kool-aid in Canadian politics? It's way over used and I'll stand by my point however ineloquent my delivery was.

lol fair enough, just when correct or attack spelling its better if yours is correct. and canadian politics is only a little less retarded than american.

[DCSaints_fan]

This is not even remotely an accurate assessment. You sound like some of the people I've had to work with in the past :pfft:

You would have to tie the point of sale to your UPC database. The UPC database might be a sinch, but tieing to the point of sale might be more difficult. You would have to track down the vendor of the point of sale system, obtain the source code, modify it, and reupdate the firmware. All of which may not be trivial.

[Pwyl]

You would have to tie the point of sale to your UPC database. The UPC database might be a sinch, but tieing to the point of sale might be more difficult. You would have to track down the vendor of the point of sale system, obtain the source code, modify it, and reupdate the firmware. All of which may not be trivial.

All true, and many more considerations besides, like the fact that fresh

produce is generally not UPC based(at least from the half-paying-attention observations I've made while paying for my bananas).

The core concept seems simple enough(make list, only apply wic purchases to upcs in list), but when you get to the point of building in all the details and deploying it to potentially thousands of different POS systems, it gets complicated fast.

[polywog999]

I know...

I was very rude to you for no good reason. So, we don't see eye to eye. No reason for me to be an ass. Please forgive. :helmet:

[PokerPacker]

All true, and many more considerations besides, like the fact that fresh

produce is generally not UPC based(at least from the half-paying-attention observations I've made while paying for my bananas).

Produce still has standardized codes. Bananas, for example, are 4011, and if memory serves, red grapes are 4023.