WaPo: Gen. Stanley McChrystal coming to Washington to explain anti-administration comments

[Redskins Diehard]

They are not Special Forces as in Rangers or SEALS but they are not conventional troops either. They are Special Operations Troops.

What is Commanding General of the 82nd Airborne Division?

What does this mean?

"2003, Petraeus, then a Major General, saw combat for the first time when he commanded the 101st Airborne Division during V Corps's drive to Baghdad. "

Um, that means he commanded the 101st Airborne Division during the drive to Baghdad. No argument there.

He was the ADC-O of the 82d. Between McNeil and Vines he was acting commander of the 82d...for 1 month.

What do you base your insistence about the "special" nature of the 82d and 101st(who is airborne in name alone) on? Seriously. You seem so sure of yourself.

[nonniey]

Risky move for Petraeus. Tremendous success in spite of his detractors in Iraq. Is it possible to do better in Afghanistan?

I'm sure Petraeus didn't take his personal legacy into consideration. I think he was the best choice at this point and he may have the weight to get what he needs from the administration (#1 being a statement of commitment to see the war through or the opposite -ie we're leaving and we're leaving now).

[Redskins Diehard]

I'm sure Petraeus didn't take his personal legacy into consideration. I think he was the best choice at this point and he may have the weight to get what he needs from the administration (#1 being a statement of commitment to see the war through or the opposite -ie we're leaving and we're leaving now).

I know that came off as a matter of "personal legacy". Not exactly how I meant it. I meant it more in terms of there is this image now that Petraeus is going to come along and "save the day". He went in to Iraq with very little expectation of success...the risk I was talking about are expectations too high. He is the best for the job.

[fansince62]

I know that came off as a matter of "personal legacy". Not exactly how I meant it. I meant it more in terms of there is this image now that Petraeus is going to come along and "save the day". He went in to Iraq with very little expectation of success...the risk I was talking about are expectations too high. He is the best for the job.

You all are missing a key point: the dysfunctionality that McC was ultimately pointing a finger at....hasn't changed one iota. Patraeus can't change that. Not his job. That responsibility falls elsewhere.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Um, that means he commanded the 101st Airborne Division during the drive to Baghdad. No argument there.

He was the ADC-O of the 82d. Between McNeil and Vines he was acting commander of the 82d...for 1 month.

What do you base your insistence about the "special" nature of the 82d and 101st(who is airborne in name alone) on? Seriously. You seem so sure of yourself.

I base it on elements of each Brigade and the roles they have played and are playing in the Iraqi and Afghanistani War. The history of Airborne is not the same as that of Regular Army and neither is the training regiment. Airborne is consistantly sent it first as part of RDF and is consistantly assigned to work with JSOC and or USASOC. Airborne is not a Ranger but they are not a Regular Army unit either. I conceed that part of the 82nd, support units, are more closely aligned with regular Army but Airborne supports many, many SF Army Operations. Look at how closely 5th SFG (AB) is working with Airborne. The roles each played in Kuwait and in Desert Storm/Shield. Airborne is more then just regular Army.

The fact that Airborne plays such a large role in U.S. RDF strategy makes them more then just Regular Army.

[ABQCOWBOY]

I know that came off as a matter of "personal legacy". Not exactly how I meant it. I meant it more in terms of there is this image now that Petraeus is going to come along and "save the day". He went in to Iraq with very little expectation of success...the risk I was talking about are expectations too high. He is the best for the job.

I agree with you on yoru view of "Expectations". However, I also believe that Petraues does have the best chance for success. His ability to handle political situations more effectively are, IMO, key to any success in Afghanistan. McChristy was a soldiers General. He was SF and I think he might have been 82nd as well. That seems to have been both a good thing and a bad thing. I think Petaeus is the one guy who can come in and pull all the different personalities together. Politically, this is the one move Obama could make that allowed him to calm the waters but he didn't do Petraeus any favors here. If the President will not listen to what he is told, then the chances for success in Afghanistan are no greater then they were under any of the previous Commanders. Obama has to listen to what he is being told and he has to get politics out of this War. He has to stop ignoring the fact that we are at War and he has to acknowledge our fighting men and woment. None of this will sit well with his base but if he loses this War, it won't matter what his base thinks because he will be out in any case and so will all that the Democratic Party has tired to do. I believe that it will all be rolled back. He has to win this IMO. He can't do that unless he takes the politics out of this whole thing and lets his Commander command.

[Redskins Diehard]

I base it on elements of each Brigade and the roles they have played and are playing in the Iraqi and Afghanistani War. The history of Airborne is not the same as that of Regular Army and neither is the training regiment. Airborne is consistantly sent it first as part of RDF and is consistantly assigned to work with JSOC and or USASOC. Airborne is not a Ranger but they are not a Regular Army unit either. I conceed that part of the 82nd, support units, are more closely aligned with regular Army but Airborne supports many, many SF Army Operations. Look at how closely 5th SFG (AB) is working with Airborne. The roles each played in Kuwait and in Desert Storm/Shield. Airborne is more then just regular Army.

The fact that Airborne plays such a large role in U.S. RDF strategy makes them more then just Regular Army.

Listen man you can believe whatever you want. I am telling you you are wrong. I served in the 82d for 4 years in a Parachute Infantry Battalion. I went to both Afghanistan and Iraq with that battalion. I am VERY familiar with the training regimen and the mission profile of those units. The 82d is a conventional infantry unit that can arrive on the battlefield from the air. That is it.

[Redskins Diehard]

I agree with you on yoru view of "Expectations". However, I also believe that Petraues does have the best chance for success. His ability to handle political situations more effectively are, IMO, key to any success in Afghanistan. McChristy was a soldiers General. He was SF and I think he might have been 82nd as well. That seems to have been both a good thing and a bad thing. I think Petaeus is the one guy who can come in and pull all the different personalities together. Politically, this is the one move Obama could make that allowed him to calm the waters but he didn't do Petraeus any favors here. If the President will not listen to what he is told, then the chances for success in Afghanistan are no greater then they were under any of the previous Commanders. Obama has to listen to what he is being told and he has to get politics out of this War. He has to stop ignoring the fact that we are at War and he has to acknowledge our fighting men and woment. None of this will sit well with his base but if he loses this War, it won't matter what his base thinks because he will be out in any case and so will all that the Democratic Party has tired to do. I believe that it will all be rolled back. He has to win this IMO. He can't do that unless he takes the politics out of this whole thing and lets his Commander command.

GEN McChrystal did spend time as the ADC-O of the 82d as well. They share that common assignment.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Listen man you can believe whatever you want. I am telling you you are wrong. I served in the 82d for 4 years in a Parachute Infantry Battalion. I went to both Afghanistan and Iraq with that battalion. I am VERY familiar with the training regimen and the mission profile of those units. The 82d is a conventional infantry unit that can arrive on the battlefield from the air. That is it.

Then I guess I am surprised that you would not understand what I am saying. Would you characterise the 82nd as Regular Army in mission and scope? Would you say that the work they are doing with Special Forces Units and Rapid Deployment missions consistant with Regular Army? The fact that you make the stipulation that the 82nd arrives on the battlefield from the air, in and of itself, would seem to denote the fact that they are different.

It doesn't matter. The point of fact remains. Petraeus does have the experience necessary to be succesful in Afghanistan. He has experience commanding SF operations in combat situations, he has sufficiant knowledge of the situation and he has experience as a Theater Commander. All that is needed for victory is there. It is now down to how this Administration supports this Commander. The question is, will politics play a bigger role in this then winning the War?

[twa]

You all are missing a key point: the dysfunctionality that McC was ultimately pointing a finger at....hasn't changed one iota. Patraeus can't change that. Not his job. That responsibility falls elsewhere.

True, but he is more of a political creature and might have more influence.

Too many working in different directions imo.

[Thiebear]

They are not Special Forces as in Rangers or SEALS but they are not conventional troops either. They are Special Operations Troops.

What is Commanding General of the 82nd Airborne Division?

What does this mean?

"2003, Petraeus, then a Major General, saw combat for the first time when he commanded the 101st Airborne Division during V Corps's drive to Baghdad. "

Just to point out having sent Special Forces to Special Forces training they are their own section.

Airborne is badass

Mechanized aint too shabby

Infantry are awesome when they come back from the field and hit the bars.

There really isn't anyone hanging out in the 100degree desert with MOP4 gear that isn't "Special" in my eyes.

combat dentists scare me more than anything.

Fort Campbell is proud to be the home of the only Air Assault Division in the world, the 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault). We are also the home of two prestigious Special Operations Command units, the 5th Special Forces Group (Airborne) and the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment (Airborne). Additionally, we are the home to the 86th Combat Support Hospital, the 716th MP Battalion, and sizable Medical and Dental activities.

[fansince62]

True, but he is more of a political creature and might have more influence.

Too many working in different directions imo.

putting aside personality conflicts...which will persist.....the point I'm making is that the parties to the discussion/decision-making process have objectives that reach far beyond winning the war itself. that's a subtext to this little drama that has been playing out. Patreus can't change that dynamic. He will be just another party to it.

btw...anyone else find humor in the fact that the one man the President's supporters basically savaged is now tasked to rescue the situation?

[Madison Redskin]

btw...anyone else find humor in the fact that the one man the President's supporters basically savaged is now tasked to rescue the situation?

The moveon.org crowd isn't representative of Obama supporters.

[Redskins Diehard]

The moveon.org crowd isn't representative of Obama supporters.

They weren't the only ones. Pretty sure the Sec State is an Obama supporter and while savage may not be the right word....support definitely isn't either. Of course she just said basically "don't expect me to believe what you are about to say".

[sacase]

Yes the are.

No they are not.

http://www.socom.mil/SOCOMHome/Pages/default.aspx

Don't see them listed under SOCOM at all.

The 82nd and 101st are apart of the XVIII airborne corps.

[sacase]

I'm sure Petraeus didn't take his personal legacy into consideration. I think he was the best choice at this point and he may have the weight to get what he needs from the administration (#1 being a statement of commitment to see the war through or the opposite -ie we're leaving and we're leaving now).

I think Obama and Petraeus are taking a big risk sending him there. Let's be real about this, Petraeus wants to be president. If he turns Afghanistan around, Obama better watch out in 2012 becuase he will have everything he needs to soundly defeat Obama.

However, he is the right man for the job.

[Madison Redskin]

They weren't the only ones. Pretty sure the Sec State is an Obama supporter and while savage may not be the right word....support definitely isn't either. Of course she just said basically "don't expect me to believe what you are about to say".

Clinton didn't villify Petraeus. Clinton merely said she wasn't going to take him at his word. There's a difference, but I get your point (which is fair).

[PeterMP]

I think Obama and Petraeus are taking a big risk sending him there. Let's be real about this, Petraeus wants to be president. If he turns Afghanistan around, Obama better watch out in 2012 becuase he will have everything he needs to soundly defeat Obama.

However, he is the right man for the job.

There is no way Petraeus can orgainze a run for 2012 and stay in the military for another year.

He'd have to essentially leave the military today to organize a run for 2012.

[IHOPSkins]

........I spent 4 years in the 82d. A tour in Afghanistan and Iraq.......

Thank You

[Fergasun]

The reason the "chain of command is broken" is because the military isn't accepting the civilian control. When there is a struggle between the direction the military wants to go and the direction of the civilians, who should win? The civilians. This the way the founding fathers set up the country all those years ago.

The military has to understand the the American people elected a democratic president, with democratic policies. Unfortunately its going to impact what they *want* to do, but they have no right to undermine that authority and policy. Such is military.

[zoony]

over/under on the McChrystal book and 60 minutes appearance?

I say 6 months from today

[twa]

I'd buy it,but watching 60 minutes is pushing it.

[Ax]

McChrystal gave the President the cover he'll need when we can't pull out by his stupidly imposed deadline. Like everything else, it won't be his fault.

If Petraeus succeeds, he will take credit for leading him there.

If he fails, he will be the lying soldier boy, he so much as called him, only a few years ago.

Job one for this potus is, cover my own ass.

Edit: I am glad to see him embracing his inner Bush, though.

[Redskins Diehard]

The reason the "chain of command is broken" is because the military isn't accepting the civilian control. When there is a struggle between the direction the military wants to go and the direction of the civilians, who should win? The civilians. This the way the founding fathers set up the country all those years ago.

The military has to understand the the American people elected a democratic president, with democratic policies. Unfortunately its going to impact what they *want* to do, but they have no right to undermine that authority and policy. Such is military.

Talking smack about Eikenberry is not disrespecting the "civilian control of the military". Neither is Holbrooke. It is likely the sign of a dysfunctional team, but it is not disrespecting civilian control.

What is the worse thing that was said about the civilian control of the military. That the President was ill prepared for a 10 minute meeting? Everyone is so up in arms about how President Obama was disrespected. Understand they are protecting "their guy". He certainly didn't seem to bothered by personal "attacks" or disrespect.

[Redskins Diehard]

over/under on the McChrystal book and 60 minutes appearance?

I say 6 months from today

That is an interesting over/under. Special Ops guys...especially of his stature...tend to keep a pretty low profile. I can only think of 2 books by internal guys..."Dalton Fury" and the Eric Haney book. And you don't see many JSOC guys showing up as "military analysts" on cable news.

I would probably take the over.