Jason Campbell improving, according to the stats. *UPDATED WITH FINAL STATS*

[NewCliche21]

You are in a Campbell post discussing what others post about him so don't give me that crap. You really don't want to discuss it then don't come in the post and yes it really is that easy.

I'm not getting drawn into a fight with you. I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of the post. That's it.

[Passizle]

You were right that Campbell supporters were skewing the sack stat, but then you go ahead and skew the touchdown stat. All of this after saying "stats are stats."

I dont think supporters are skewing anything. All sacks are not created equal. If Rodgers or Rothleisberger take the snap, take a seven step drop, then scramble to the left to find and open man, but get chased down by a DE before the LOS, its sack right?

Now, if JC takes the snap, takes a three step drop and has two DT's collapsing the pocket before he can plant his feet, its a sack.

Given that scenario (which happened alot more than it should), how is a sack still a sack. They are completeley different takes on the plays of the game. Some video of supporting evidence...

Typical Big Ben Sack

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d8157c37f/Dolphins-Defense-Highlight-WK-17-vs-Steelers-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d8146d6b4/Chiefs-Defense-Highlight-WK-11-vs-Steelers-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d8143ccbd/Bengals-Defense-Highlight-WK-10-vs-Steelers-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d8143ccd1/Bengals-Defense-Highlight-WK-10-vs-Steelers-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d8143cd10/Bengals-Defense-Highlight-WK-10-vs-Steelers-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d8141682f/Broncos-Defense-Highlight-WK-09-vs-Steelers-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d81416840/Broncos-Defense-Highlight-WK-09-vs-Steelers-2009

Typical Rodgers sacks

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d8155144b/Seahawks-Defense-Highlight-WK-16-vs-Packers-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d81526009/Steelers-Defense-Highlight-WK-15-vs-Packers-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d814f4f74/Bears-Defense-Highlight-WK-14-vs-Packers-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d814f575f/Bears-Defense-Highlight-WK-14-vs-Packers-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d814cf330/Ravens-Defense-Highlight-WK-13-vs-Packers-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d81486148/Lions-Defense-Highlight-WK-12-vs-Packers-2009

Typical Campbell sacks

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d8157d154/Chargers-Defense-Highlight-WK-17-vs-Redskins-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d81551f8f/Cowboys-Defense-Highlight-WK-16-vs-Redskins-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d8152d158/Giants-Defense-Highlight-WK-15-vs-Redskins-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d8152d306/Giants-Defense-Highlight-WK-15-vs-Redskins-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d8152d38e/Giants-Defense-Highlight-WK-15-vs-Redskins-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d8152d16f/Giants-Defense-Highlight-WK-15-vs-Redskins-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d814f4bba/Raiders-Defense-Highlight-WK-14-vs-Redskins-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d814f5d97/Raiders-Defense-Highlight-WK-14-vs-Redskins-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d814f5fac/Raiders-Defense-Highlight-WK-14-vs-Redskins-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d8149abd3/Eagles-Defense-Highlight-WK-12-vs-Redskins-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d8140f09f/Falcons-Defense-Highlight-WK-09-vs-Redskins-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d8140f3f7/Falcons-Defense-Highlight-WK-09-vs-Redskins-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d813bd5e7/Eagles-Defense-Highlight-WK-07-vs-Redskins-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d813bd5f8/Eagles-Defense-Highlight-WK-07-vs-Redskins-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d813bd64e/Eagles-Defense-Highlight-WK-07-vs-Redskins-2009

This is just a small sampling and I hope it can put to bed the "sacks are sacks". JC is under duress FAR MORE and with FAR LESS time than most other QB in the NFL with the attrocity that was the Redskins offensive line.

[wvtbred]

I'm not getting drawn into a fight with you. I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of the post. That's it.

I don't want to fight just pointing out the obvious.

[Passizle]

and just like homers breaking down ben and rodgers sack stat, this loser JC causes many of his sacks. how embarrassing is it when collinsworh on national TV tells it like it is by syaign he caused his own sack. LOL

misleading stats, when broken down, his numbers are horrendous but more importantly, the amount of bonehead mistakes and plays in this 5th season is mind boggling. slow this guy is. what a loser.

Yeah. I remeber that play and thought Collinsworth was an idiot at that moment. He had just gotten drilled before he got to plant his feet on a three step drop and Collinsworth was saying "you have to get rid of that ball!"

To who? I was a freeakin 3 step drop that the guy could not complete due to pressure. That was a retarded comment by Collinsworth... and I have alot of respect of his opinion. That one was just :doh:

[wvtbred]

Yeah. I remeber that play and thought Collinsworth was an idiot at that moment. He had just gotten drilled before he got to plant his feet on a three step drop and Collinsworth was saying "you have to get rid of that ball!"

To who? I was a freeakin 3 step drop that the guy could not complete due to pressure. That was a retarded comment by Collinsworth... and I have alot of respect of his opinion. That one was just :doh:

Find the play on tape and you will know to who.

[PCS]

How not to respond in a thread. Especially one dealing with Jason Campbell. Know what I'm saying?

Wdcred....you are wasting your time. This is the same guy that was probably on Patrick Ramseys jock (or behind him if u know what im sayin) when he got sent out of town too. This guy accepts losing and thats just the way it is. The fact that he couldnt see that a 40 yr old journeyman backup came in time after time for his hero JC with the same O line and the same WRs and made our offense look 1000 times better should tell you the IQ of this idiot. I wouldnt waste your breath.

:ciao:

The rest of you,the last couple of posts saved this thread. For now. Lighten up.

[DCskinFAN]

this is the problem.

while all of his stats have improved.. his ability to lead the team and win a game in the 4th qaurter has NOT improved... it doesnt seem like he wants "it" bad enaough and i think the players around him feed off of that

[Passizle]

Find the play on tape and you will know to who.

I'll look it up... brb.

[wvtbred]

I'll look it up... brb.

Thanks and I really am looking forward to it. That wasn't the only play he was jumped on BTW but I remember it. I believe the slant was there but I might be mistaken.

[SkinsFTW]

JC=Championship

He just wins all the close games in the 4th quarter. What more could we ask for?

Right?

LOLOLOL!

[fansince62]

I dont think supporters are skewing anything. All sacks are not created equal. If Rodgers or Rothleisberger take the snap, take a seven step drop, then scramble to the left to find and open man, but get chased down by a DE before the LOS, its sack right?

Now, if JC takes the snap, takes a three step drop and has two DT's collapsing the pocket before he can plant his feet, its a sack.

Given that scenario (which happened alot more than it should), how is a sack still a sack. They are completeley different takes on the plays of the game. Some video of supporting evidence...

Typical Big Ben Sack

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d8157c37f/Dolphins-Defense-Highlight-WK-17-vs-Steelers-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d8146d6b4/Chiefs-Defense-Highlight-WK-11-vs-Steelers-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d8143ccbd/Bengals-Defense-Highlight-WK-10-vs-Steelers-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d8143ccd1/Bengals-Defense-Highlight-WK-10-vs-Steelers-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d8143cd10/Bengals-Defense-Highlight-WK-10-vs-Steelers-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d8141682f/Broncos-Defense-Highlight-WK-09-vs-Steelers-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d81416840/Broncos-Defense-Highlight-WK-09-vs-Steelers-2009

Typical Rodgers sacks

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d8155144b/Seahawks-Defense-Highlight-WK-16-vs-Packers-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d81526009/Steelers-Defense-Highlight-WK-15-vs-Packers-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d814f4f74/Bears-Defense-Highlight-WK-14-vs-Packers-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d814f575f/Bears-Defense-Highlight-WK-14-vs-Packers-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d814cf330/Ravens-Defense-Highlight-WK-13-vs-Packers-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d81486148/Lions-Defense-Highlight-WK-12-vs-Packers-2009

Typical Campbell sacks

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d8157d154/Chargers-Defense-Highlight-WK-17-vs-Redskins-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d81551f8f/Cowboys-Defense-Highlight-WK-16-vs-Redskins-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d8152d158/Giants-Defense-Highlight-WK-15-vs-Redskins-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d8152d306/Giants-Defense-Highlight-WK-15-vs-Redskins-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d8152d38e/Giants-Defense-Highlight-WK-15-vs-Redskins-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d8152d16f/Giants-Defense-Highlight-WK-15-vs-Redskins-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d814f4bba/Raiders-Defense-Highlight-WK-14-vs-Redskins-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d814f5d97/Raiders-Defense-Highlight-WK-14-vs-Redskins-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d814f5fac/Raiders-Defense-Highlight-WK-14-vs-Redskins-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d8149abd3/Eagles-Defense-Highlight-WK-12-vs-Redskins-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d8140f09f/Falcons-Defense-Highlight-WK-09-vs-Redskins-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d8140f3f7/Falcons-Defense-Highlight-WK-09-vs-Redskins-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d813bd5e7/Eagles-Defense-Highlight-WK-07-vs-Redskins-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d813bd5f8/Eagles-Defense-Highlight-WK-07-vs-Redskins-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d813bd64e/Eagles-Defense-Highlight-WK-07-vs-Redskins-2009

This is just a small sampling and I hope it can put to bed the "sacks are sacks". JC is under duress FAR MORE than most other QB in the NFL with the attocity that was the offensive line.

hmmm...maybe R-burg ran left because of pressure up the middle. either way...we do know this...R-burger produced more than JC did when under pressure.

[Passizle]

hmmm...maybe R-burg ran left because of pressure up the middle. either way...we do know this...R-burger produced more than JC did when under pressure.

Absolutley. I agree. And a major reason is because his line can hold blocks. If BR slides out of the pocket, his line compensates and will still pick guys in different ways. Ben cant move like Vick. He has all that time because he has help.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

hmmm...maybe R-burg ran left because of pressure up the middle. either way...we do know this...R-burger produced more than JC did when under pressure.

i watched the first two. in the chargers game, an OLB came in untouched who was lined up on davis. a good QB can sense an OLB coming, say "hey davis, youre the hot read" and throw it to him right away, or can shift the line protection to that side when he sees a guy coming. notice how every lineman on that play blocked everybody to the left side. they all went left, leaving the guy on the far right untouched. no good QB allows that to happen (thats if they can read a defense).

the second one vs dallas, he took a snap in shotgun and guys just came at him. line didnt do well but campbell held the ball too long as usual and ran backwards for no reason only to lose more yardage.

not all of aaron rodgers sacks are like that, he got sacked 50 times. in the minny game he was a tackling dummy and still managed to have a ridiculous game.

good QBs also get respect, and teams wont just blitz stupidly because they know itll get chewed up. with us, you think any d coordinators care about the 1 blitz out of 10 campbell picks up? think again.

[Passizle]

Thanks and I really am looking forward to it. That wasn't the only play he was jumped on BTW but I remember it. I believe the slant was there but I might be mistaken.

Sorry bud. I cant seem to find it and I have far too much time here today. I will look it up after work and try to post later...

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Absolutley. I agree. And a major reason is because his line can hold blocks. If BR slides out of the pocket, his line compensates and will still pick guys in different ways. Ben cant move like Vick. He has all that time because he has help.

pittsburghs line is so good that their oline coach just got fired.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4802929

PITTSBURGH -- Offensive line coach Larry Zierlein and special teams coordinator Bob Ligashesky have been fired, the first Steelers assistant coaches to lose their jobs since coach Mike Tomlin was hired in 2007.

Zierlein was supposed to meet with some of his linemen on Wednesday, only to be told he was being replaced. He was seen leaving the Steelers' offices with several large boxes. Zierlein previously coached for the Browns and Bills, plus five college teams.

Offensive coordinator Bruce Arians held a long meeting Wednesday with Tomlin and is expected to retain his job, despite some dissatisfaction within the organization about the decreased emphasis on the running game.

Zierlein's offensive line had season-long problems, allowing Ben Roethlisberger to be sacked 50 times as the Steelers (9-7) failed to make the playoffs a season after winning the Super Bowl.

The staff changes are the first for Tomlin, who went three seasons without altering his staff. Quarterbacks coach Ken Anderson retired on Tuesday after 33 seasons as an NFL player or coach, 16 as a Bengals quarterback.

[grego]

steelers O line coach got fired? whats the point?

i thought a good QB can make a bad line look good?

[Popeman38]

good QBs also get respect, and teams wont just blitz stupidly because they know itll get chewed up. with us, you think any d coordinators care about the 1 blitz out of 10 campbell picks up? think again.

I know you will dismiss this response because it isn't blaming JC, but you blitz JC at will because you know the O-Line can't block 4, let alone 6, defenders. You know when you blitz the Skins you will get there. Against the Steelers and Packers, you don't know you will get there. JC had 236 rushing yds this year, 4th among QBs. So if you didn't get him, you might get "burnt" with a 10 yd scramble.

It is funny how one JC basher says to analyze stats rather than just quote them and another just quotes them, all in the same thread. You even go on to post an article and make the line that shows Ben got sacked 50 times really big. You watch the Steelers OL and then watch our OL and get back to me as to which one was better.

[titus3]

I dont think supporters are skewing anything. All sacks are not created equal. If Rodgers or Rothleisberger take the snap, take a seven step drop, then scramble to the left to find and open man, but get chased down by a DE before the LOS, its sack right?

Now, if JC takes the snap, takes a three step drop and has two DT's collapsing the pocket before he can plant his feet, its a sack.

Given that scenario (which happened alot more than it should), how is a sack still a sack. They are completeley different takes on the plays of the game. Some video of supporting evidence...

Typical Rodgers sacks

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d8155144b/Seahawks-Defense-Highlight-WK-16-vs-Packers-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d81526009/Steelers-Defense-Highlight-WK-15-vs-Packers-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d814f4f74/Bears-Defense-Highlight-WK-14-vs-Packers-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d814f575f/Bears-Defense-Highlight-WK-14-vs-Packers-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d814cf330/Ravens-Defense-Highlight-WK-13-vs-Packers-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d81486148/Lions-Defense-Highlight-WK-12-vs-Packers-2009

This is just a small sampling and I hope it can put to bed the "sacks are sacks". JC is under duress FAR MORE and with FAR LESS time than most other QB in the NFL with the attrocity that was the Redskins offensive line.

The first Rodgers sack video shows the line being beat by a 3 man rush, the second video shows the line being beat by a 4 man rush on a 7 step drop. Seems no different than what JC went through. Bottom line is Rodgers outperformed Campbell while being sacked more times than him.

[KokoMike]

I love the fact that Shanahan has only talked about one stat: the 4-12 record.

I liked what he said when he was asked if Jason Campbell could be his starting QB. He said, of course, that is what competition is all about.

Another enlightening question: What qualities to you look for in a quarterback?

"There's so many different things. Number one, you've got to be accurate. Number two, you've to be passionate for what you're doing. You've got to study the game inside and out. You're looking for guys that carry that over to the football field. Some guys are talkers, other guys are quiet. I've seen people lead in a lot of different ways. The Joe Montanas, the Steve Youngs, the John Elways that I've been with, each guys is a little bit different in their own way. They're all Hall of Fame quarterbacks. You get in there and get a guy like Steve Buerlein that would just go out there and find a way to win. Everybody had different characteristics. You've got to have a burning desire to want to be the best at what you do."

Does Jason have that burning desire? We have never seen it exhibited.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

steelers O line coach got fired? whats the point?

i thought a good QB can make a bad line look good?

he does make them look good, that doesnt mean the line is good to begin with and the coach should be retained. his line isnt good, and the fact that he plays so well behind a not so great line is testament to how good he is.

weak QBs dont put up 500 yards in a game. if you watched the green bay game, you know what big ben can do.

[Popeman38]

The first Rodgers sack video shows the line being beat by a 3 man rush, the second video shows the line being beat by a 4 man rush on a 7 step drop. Seems no different than what JC went through. Bottom line is Rodgers outperformed Campbell while being sacked more times than him.

Ummm, Jason couldn't even get set on a 3 step drop against the Giants. :doh:

[wvtbred]

Sorry bud. I cant seem to find it and I have far too much time here today. I will look it up after work and try to post later...

That's cool thanks for trying.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

I know you will dismiss this response because it isn't blaming JC, but you blitz JC at will because you know the O-Line can't block 4, let alone 6, defenders. You know when you blitz the Skins you will get there. Against the Steelers and Packers, you don't know you will get there. JC had 236 rushing yds this year, 4th among QBs. So if you didn't get him, you might get "burnt" with a 10 yd scramble.

It is funny how one JC basher says to analyze stats rather than just quote them and another just quotes them, all in the same thread. You even go on to post an article and make the line that shows Ben got sacked 50 times really big. You watch the Steelers OL and then watch our OL and get back to me as to which one was better.

our oline sucks.

JC sucks.

thats my stance. and i hope both are fixed.

and i agree, they dont respect our line either, so its a double edged sword, which is why i wanted BOTH replaced, the line and campbell. the people that just want the line upgraded are living in fantasy land.

and on aaron rodgers first blitz on that video he was sacked against a 3 man rush, which whenever that happens to our line, its the lines fault, yet it was rodgers fault when it happened to him.

shouldnt any line be able to hold a 3 man rush?

[Popeman38]

Ok, this needs to stop. We have a real GM and a proven offensive coach. They will make the decision that is best for this team, and no one on this board knows better than them. Can we all agree on that? JC supporter or basher, the coach and GM will determine if he plays here next year and beyond.

[grego]

he does make them look good, that doesnt mean the line is good to begin with and the coach should be retained. his line isnt good, and the fact that he plays so well behind a not so great line is testament to how good he is.

weak QBs dont put up 500 yards in a game. if you watched the green bay game, you know what big ben can do.

i know. i was kidding. halfway, anyway.

funny thing is, the steelers were good enough to win the super bowl last year, yet not make the playoffs this year, despite having a top tier QB playing behind a suspect line.

why is that?