Jason Campbell improving, according to the stats. *UPDATED WITH FINAL STATS*

[Mordac]

You were right that Campbell supporters were skewing the sack stat, but then you go ahead and skew the touchdown stat. All of this after saying "stats are stats."

I think his actual point was that stats aren't stats.

And I agree. How much of his completion % is a function of all the 5 yard passes he completes on 3rd and 8?

[jru37725]

This is for OP and you. Again, i've emphasized this over and over and only homers dont get it.

so based on your post, Redskins oline isnt the worse. steelers and packers gave up more sacks than the skins. stats are stats afterall.

but of course, u have homers dissecting that stat talking about ben and rodgers hold theball too long and cause their own sacks. No, stats are stats.

this is what im talking about. when certain stats favor ur argument, u just post it and when it doesnt u try to break it down. u homers are good at that unlike us that break down every stat regardless.

as for this guy JC, one of the worst starting QB and his stats are misleading. we have gone over this many times and u homers still dont get it. i mean, when you go in to half times with 0 points, you are bound to get play behind and mostly likely TDs and yards come at useless time.

this guy has lead the team to 0 points going in to the half at least 4 times this yr.

somebody has mentioned that 4 TDs came in 4th or trash time. 20-4 = 16. 16 TD for a full season is horrendous. Im sure there are more TDs that came in 3rd that were useless. then he has two TDs against 2nd and 3rd stringers vs chargers. So lucky how this guy gets those two TDs last game of the season to pad his stats.

4TDs in useless time and 2TDs against 2nd and 3rd stringers vs the chargers. 20-6=14 TDs. that is 14 meaningful TDs. 14 in a full season .God this guy sucks.

how anyone can just go by his stats is mind boggling, if they have seen every single game of his.

a poster broke down each game this yr. he clearly said if you saw all his games, while breaking down each game, you would know that this guy was horrendous this yr.

worse than last yr. way more boneheaded mistakes this yr than last yr. way for INTs than last yr. way more fumbles than last yr. this guy is slow. how a QB can go backwards in the bonehead plays and mistakes department in his 5th season is beyond me. this guy doesnt have it, sucks so bad and glad he will not be withthe redskins anymore.

What about the TDs he pretty much gave to the other team....you can take 2 more off the list....fumbling week 1 and Osi Umenyora running it in for a TD and throwing that pick 6 vs the Giants at home as well......the offense of the other team didnt even have to go 1 yard for those TDs.....down to 12TDs if u ask me.... .and i am sure there are more examples of this too. I can't tell you how many times when the season still had meaning where JC took a sack to move us out of FG range. At least 5 times this yr. Stuff like that doesnt make the stat sheet though.

[darrelgreenie]

You're missing the point, Jason was supposed to be a franchise QB. We tried to build a team around him. Because we did a poor job, people think Jason has had it bad.

I think the mistakes we've made with Jason have slowed down his progress.

Its doesn't make sense to develop QB yet change offensive schemes twice while he's still learning.

They ignore we signed Jim Zorn here to develop Jason. Signed 3 larger, taller, receiving threats in the 2nd round. Handed him the starting position without competition the last 2 seasons

A young QBs 3rd/4th year is often the year a QB starts reaching their potential but in Jason's case he had a new offense lead by a coach in over his head and an OL that fell apart by mid-season.

And those receiving threats that were brought weren't ready to contribute.

We drafted him to be the answer. We built this team for him to be the answer. He's a big part of why this team is not very good.

How can people rail against Vinnie and Snyder yet think they did a good job in building a team around Jason and developing him as a 'franchise' QB.

Your post kinda open my eyes a little.

Despite JC stats this season, i think Jason is viewed as a symbol of Vinnie and Synder's in ability to build a good franchise.

And that may be part of the underlying dislike for Jason.

A good franchise is the 1st step in developing a 'franchise' QB.

Show me a 'franchise' QB on a bad team.

[NewCliche21]

I think his actual point was that stats aren't stats.

Then he's proving others right regarding the sacks stat.

One way he's arguing against himself, the other he's hypocritical.

[NewCliche21]

What about the TDs he pretty much gave to the other team....you can take 2 more off the list....fumbling week 1 and Osi Umenyora running it in for a TD and throwing that pick 6 vs the Giants at home as well......the offense of the other team didnt even have to go 1 yard for those TDs.....down to 12TDs if u ask me.... .and i am sure there are more examples of this too. I can't tell you how many times when the season still had meaning where JC took a sack to move us out of FG range. At least 5 times this yr. Stuff like that doesnt make the stat sheet though.

:doh:

This is why I hate Campbell threads. It makes smart people look stupid and stupid people look, well, you figure it out.

[jru37725]

:doh:

This is why I hate Campbell threads. It makes smart people look stupid and stupid people look, well, you figure it out.

It was a joke there pal.....but if you want to make it personal and call me stupid then go ahead. The fact that you think this QB, who led us to 4-12 this year, has never had a winning season, has never had a 4th qtr 2 minute comeback, who has the backup outperform him every time he comes in, should be our guy certainly shows your intelligence pal. Amazing what losing will do to people's expectations.

[redskins55]

He's doing just what Gibbs envisioned him to do.. Get better every year.. BUT Gibbs didn't think our team would get worse and that's courtesy of Vinny Cerrato.

Jon Gruden

Ron Jaworski

Joe Gibbs

Tony Dungy

and the Stats..

I think I'm going to go with these guy's assessments and statistical proof on Campbell rather than some of these illogical fans

[wdcredskins]

You were right that Campbell supporters were skewing the sack stat, but then you go ahead and skew the touchdown stat. All of this after saying "stats are stats."

you clearly dont get it and that is why it is mind boggling. no one is saying when homers skew sack stats, it is wrong. the whole point is, you SHOULD dissect stats, not just present it and say stat is stat. ben and rdogers to sometimes hold the ball long just like this loser QB JC. ive seen steelers and packers game as well. i dont just watch redskins. so when you say, i go ahead and skew the touchdown stat.... that is what i've always been doing. what are you talking about? breaking down stats. not just post it. that is the whole point. you break down stats. not just post it , especially when it is totally misleading like this loser JC's TD and total yards. again, if you have seen each redskins game this yr, you dont need stats to tell you how bad this guy has played.

[jru37725]

I think the mistakes we've made with Jason have slowed down his progress.

Its doesn't make sense to develop QB yet change offensive schemes twice while he's still learning.

A young QBs 3rd/4th year is often the year a QB starts reaching their potential but in Jason's case he had a new offense lead by a coach in over his head and an OL that fell apart by mid-season.

And those receiving threats that were brought weren't ready to contribute.

How can people rail against Vinnie and Snyder yet think they did a good job in building a team around Jason and developing him as a 'franchise' QB.

Your post kinda open my eyes a little.

Despite JC stats this season, i think Jason is viewed as a symbol of Vinnie and Synder's in ability to build a good franchise.

And that may be part of the underlying dislike for Jason.

A good franchise is the 1st step in developing a 'franchise' QB.

Show me a 'franchise' QB on a bad team.

Excuses excuses......keep giving us some more....we want to hear the m all.

[Popeman38]

what?

You arbitrarily disregard TDs for JC after complaining that homers simply use stats.

Quick question: Did Matt Schaub lead the league in passing this year?

Answer: Yes

Now, how did the NFL decide that he was the leading passer? They use stats. They do not discredit passing yds when there is no chance the Texans win or when the Texans are up 24 pts. Stats are stats, and they are what players are measured by. By your logic, Chris Johnson broke Faulks all purpose yardage record and topped 2000 yds in a useless game, so he shouldn't get credit for either. Of course he should get credit for it. Just as JC should get credit for throwing for 3618 yds, 20 TD and 15 INT. If you want to apply a filter to JC stats, you must apply the same filter to every player in the league.

[jru37725]

you clearly dont get it and that is why it is mind boggling. no one is saying when homers skew sack stats, it is wrong. the whole point is, you SHOULD dissect stats, not just present it and say stat is stat. ben and rdogers to sometimes hold the ball long just like this loser QB JC. ive seen steelers and packers game as well. i dont just watch redskins. so when you say, i go ahead and skew the touchdown stat.... that is what i've always been doing. what are you talking about? breaking down stats. not just post it. that is the whole point. you break down stats. not just post it , especially when it is totally misleading like this loser JC's TD and total yards. again, if you have seen each redskins game this yr, you dont need stats to tell you how bad this guy has played.

Wdcred....you are wasting your time. This is the same guy that was probably on Patrick Ramseys jock (or behind him if u know what im sayin) when he got sent out of town too. This guy accepts losing and thats just the way it is. The fact that he couldnt see that a 40 yr old journeyman backup came in time after time for his hero JC with the same O line and the same WRs and made our offense look 1000 times better should tell you the IQ of this idiot. I wouldnt waste your breath.

[Popeman38]

I think his actual point was that stats aren't stats.

And I agree. How much of his completion % is a function of all the 5 yard passes he completes on 3rd and 8?

And how many yds and TDs in McNabb's career are accounted for with screen passes?

The MF'ing WCO uses short passes the majority of the time. We ran a WCO. ****ing about short passes in the WCO is like ****ing about oxygen in the air. :doh:

[wdcredskins]

What about the TDs he pretty much gave to the other team....you can take 2 more off the list....fumbling week 1 and Osi Umenyora running it in for a TD and throwing that pick 6 vs the Giants at home as well......the offense of the other team didnt even have to go 1 yard for those TDs.....down to 12TDs if u ask me.... .and i am sure there are more examples of this too. I can't tell you how many times when the season still had meaning where JC took a sack to move us out of FG range. At least 5 times this yr. Stuff like that doesnt make the stat sheet though.

and just like homers breaking down ben and rodgers sack stat, this loser JC causes many of his sacks. how embarrassing is it when collinsworh on national TV tells it like it is by syaign he caused his own sack. LOL

misleading stats, when broken down, his numbers are horrendous but more importantly, the amount of bonehead mistakes and plays in this 5th season is mind boggling. slow this guy is. what a loser.

[wvtbred]

:doh:

This is why I hate Campbell threads. It makes smart people look stupid and stupid people look, well, you figure it out.

I couldn't agree more especially from my point of view.

[jru37725]

You arbitrarily disregard TDs for JC after complaining that homers simply use stats.

Quick question: Did Matt Schaub lead the league in passing this year?

Answer: Yes

Now, how did the NFL decide that he was the leading passer? They use stats. They do not discredit passing yds when there is no chance the Texans win or when the Texans are up 24 pts. Stats are stats, and they are what players are measured by. By your logic, Chris Johnson broke Faulks all purpose yardage record and topped 2000 yds in a useless game, so he shouldn't get credit for either. Of course he should get credit for it. Just as JC should get credit for throwing for 3618 yds, 20 TD and 15 INT. If you want to apply a filter to JC stats, you must apply the same filter to every player in the league.

I understand your logic but what we are trying to point out is that alot of JC's good numbers came in pressureless situations. Sure he ended the season with those numbers, but he was the leader of a team that went 4-12, continually made mental mistakes game after game, and most importantly, never brought us back in a game where we were down with under 3 minutes whether it be 1 point or 7 points. So basically we just feel like the stats mean nothing in this instance. You have your opinion, we have ours. When they let him go or he is the backup, you will understand thats how Shanahan feels as well. While you are at it, why dont you email Mike Shanahan and ask him how he feels about stats. Ask him if he really cares about how many yards guy threw for, or what his compl % was or his passer rating......guarantee he tells you the only stat important to him is wins and losses.

[wdcredskins]

You arbitrarily disregard TDs for JC after complaining that homers simply use stats.

Quick question: Did Matt Schaub lead the league in passing this year?

Answer: Yes

Now, how did the NFL decide that he was the leading passer? They use stats. They do not discredit passing yds when there is no chance the Texans win or when the Texans are up 24 pts. Stats are stats, and they are what players are measured by. By your logic, Chris Johnson broke Faulks all purpose yardage record and topped 2000 yds in a useless game, so he shouldn't get credit for either. Of course he should get credit for it. Just as JC should get credit for throwing for 3618 yds, 20 TD and 15 INT. If you want to apply a filter to JC stats, you must apply the same filter to every player in the league.

as i explained already, homers simply use stats when it favors thisloser JC or their argument and when we tell them u have to break it down, they wont listen and reply by syiang something like " stat is stat"

then they become hypocrites by breaking down stats that we present to them because it doesnt favor JC or their argument.

that is the point.

i preach that you dont just post stats. stats arent simply stats. you have to break down all stats.

[Popeman38]

I understand your logic but what we are trying to point out is that alot of JC's good numbers came in pressureless situations. Sure he ended the season with those numbers, but he was the leader of a team that went 4-12, continually made mental mistakes game after game, and most importantly, never brought us back in a game where we were down with under 3 minutes whether it be 1 point or 7 points. So basically we just feel like the stats mean nothing in this instance. You have your opinion, we have ours. When they let him go or he is the backup, you will understand thats how Shanahan feels as well. While you are at it, why dont you email Mike Shanahan and ask him how he feels about stats. Ask him if he really cares about how many yards guy threw for, or what his compl % was or his passer rating......guarantee he tells you the only stat important to him is wins and losses.

I will go slowly for you:

YOU

CAN

MAKE

THE

SAME

ARGUMENT

AGAINST

EVERY

PLAYER

IN

THE

LEAGUE

How many of Mannings yards and TDs came in already decided games (garbage time)? Romo sits to pee? Favre (see Giants game)? How many of Chris Johnsons stats came in garbage time? Yet the only player who gets criticized on this board for these stats is JC. Wonder why that is?

[Popeman38]

as i explained already, homers simply use stats when it favors thisloser JC or their argument and when we tell them u have to break it down, they wont listen and reply by syiang something like " stat is stat"

then they become hypocrites by breaking down stats that we present to them because it doesnt favor JC or their argument.

that is the point.

i preach that you dont just post stats. stats arent simply stats. you have to break down all stats.

And as i explained already, the NFL uses stats to rank everything.

If you want to filter, fine. Apply same logic to everyone (in other words, break down Aaron Rodgers throwing bombs and scoring TDs up 3 TD against the Cards and Favre padding stats against the Giants up 4 TD)

[wvtbred]

You arbitrarily disregard TDs for JC after complaining that homers simply use stats.

Quick question: Did Matt Schaub lead the league in passing this year?

Answer: Yes

Now, how did the NFL decide that he was the leading passer? They use stats. They do not discredit passing yds when there is no chance the Texans win or when the Texans are up 24 pts. Stats are stats, and they are what players are measured by. By your logic, Chris Johnson broke Faulks all purpose yardage record and topped 2000 yds in a useless game, so he shouldn't get credit for either. Of course he should get credit for it. Just as JC should get credit for throwing for 3618 yds, 20 TD and 15 INT. If you want to apply a filter to JC stats, you must apply the same filter to every player in the league.

Done, how about these stats?

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb

[NewCliche21]

you clearly dont get it and that is why it is mind boggling. no one is saying when homers skew sack stats, it is wrong. the whole point is, you SHOULD dissect stats, not just present it and say stat is stat. ben and rdogers to sometimes hold the ball long just like this loser QB JC. ive seen steelers and packers game as well. i dont just watch redskins. so when you say, i go ahead and skew the touchdown stat.... that is what i've always been doing. what are you talking about? breaking down stats. not just post it. that is the whole point. you break down stats. not just post it , especially when it is totally misleading like this loser JC's TD and total yards. again, if you have seen each redskins game this yr, you dont need stats to tell you how bad this guy has played.

Dude, I'm not in the Campbell argument. I'm pointing out your hypocrisy. That is all.

Wdcred....you are wasting your time. This is the same guy that was probably on Patrick Ramseys jock (or behind him if u know what im sayin) when he got sent out of town too. This guy accepts losing and thats just the way it is. The fact that he couldnt see that a 40 yr old journeyman backup came in time after time for his hero JC with the same O line and the same WRs and made our offense look 1000 times better should tell you the IQ of this idiot. I wouldnt waste your breath.

Calling me an idiot after being here for ten seconds and judging me on one post and trying to extrapolate that into a Ramsey argument? Then making homosexual accusations?

Peace out, Cub Scout.

[jru37725]

I will go slowly for you:

YOU

CAN

MAKE

THE

SAME

ARGUMENT

AGAINST

EVERY

PLAYER

IN

THE

LEAGUE

How many of Mannings yards and TDs came in already decided games (garbage time)? Romo sits to pee? Favre (see Giants game)? How many of Chris Johnsons stats came in garbage time? Yet the only player who gets criticized on this board for these stats is JC. Wonder why that is?

But the difference is all those guys also made plays in crunch time.....actually most of their scores and long runs happened when their team needed it, or when they were in a game that had playoff implications, and i can guarantee you most of the time happened when their team still had a chance to win the game or they were leading. Chris Johnson got all those yards while his team was trying to comeback and beat Seattle and guess what....they did!!!! And you can look up how many time CJ broke a long TD run when his team was up 3 or 7 and he put the game away. I have no idea the last time JC put a game away fro us and looked spectacular in doing it....because its never happened!!! In 4 years!! JC's good plays always happened when we were down by 2 TDs, or in games that meant nothing. He never put his foot down on any teams throat......it just seemed like we could never start a game out good with JC and we were always fighting to make a comeback in the 2nd half. Every single game it seemed, and definitely the ones that meant something. I dont understand why you couldnt see that and it didnt frustrate you.

[jru37725]

Dude, I'm not in the Campbell argument. I'm pointing out your hypocrisy. That is all.

Calling me an idiot after being here for ten seconds and judging me on one post and trying to extrapolate that into a Ramsey argument? Then making homosexual accusations?

Peace out, Cub Scout.

I have no idea what you are talking about....i'm stupid remember?

[wvtbred]

Dude, I'm not in the Campbell argument. I'm pointing out your hypocrisy. That is all.

Wrong you are in it because you continually post in it. You don't ride one side all of the time but you are in it if you post here.

[NewCliche21]

Wrong you are in it because you continually post in it. You don't ride one side all of the time but you are in it if you post here.

I'm not discussing Campbell here (I should've specified, so my bad); I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of the post.

[wvtbred]

I'm not discussing Campbell here (I should've specified, so my bad); I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of the post.

You are in a Campbell post discussing what others post about him so don't give me that crap. You really don't want to discuss it then don't come in the post and yes it really is that easy.