bubba9497 Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Vinny is neither good as he thinks he is... nor as bad as many fans believe a lot of Vinny's criticism comes from how he's perceived in the media (some self inflected) as being the ultimate yes man, Danny's stooge, and spin doctor..... and has a high opinion of himself. Where most GM types prefer to stay in the back ground, Vinny loves the spotlight. all of which has nothing to do with his ability to find talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCliche21 Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Vinny is neither good as he thinks he is...nor as bad as many fans believe a lot of Vinny's criticism comes from how he's perceived in the media (some self inflected) as being the ultimate yes man, Danny's stooge, and spin doctor..... and has a high opinion of himself. Where most GM types prefer to stay in the back ground, Vinny loves the spotlight. all of which has nothing to do with his ability to find talent. That's the problem: His job isn't to find talent; it's to assemble a team. He hasn't found an offensive line, and that's the core of the offense. And when he refers to Samuels's injury as "mental", he sure is an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsNumberOne Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 I understand what you're saying, but has the offensive line really played that badly lately? I don't think so, and those are the backups Cerrato brought in/relied on. Sure, they're not starters, but how many teams have more than one starter quality backup, or even any? Not many, I'd say.I'm starting to think that Cerrato is actually doing a decent job. 4-9 There's your answer. You can't go into a season this ill-prepared to a 4-9 record and start playing well. It's the job of personnel managers to make sure the team has the personnel to compete. To know that Randy Thomas gets injured all the time (Cerrato admitted to knowing this at least) and that Chris Samuels is getting up there and the last couple of years has been hobbled a bit (to the extent of actually being out last year finally). This isn't new news, there's no excuse for being this unprepared. To have to cobble together guys, and managing to make it work in the middle of the season isn't vindicating. To a fanbase tired of being "around .500" and wanting to improve (not necessarily to be elite but to be better than mediocre at least this year) watching their team fall apart and then having to see if they can scrape and claw to around .500 - there isn't any vindication from that. Teams are ultimately judged on their performance for a season, not any individual performance, or set of 4 or 8 games. 16 games. Through 13, we've lost 9. That means that there is no vindication for Vinny for 2009. We were not prepared for some fairly obvious problems we've had. If some of that is coaching, then I've got to say, the coaching selection last year can shoulder some of the blame too. At the very least it should be obvious to anyone that there needs to be a strong football minded GM who can instruct the coaches in a timely fashion or hopefully to have picked coaches better that would know their limits (it's pretty clear to me that playcalling has indeed played a part in the better play). Vinny may not have to go, but there needs to be a smart GM above him with the power to fire Vinny if he can't play nice. I fully expect him to be unable to do so, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Walton Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 I will evaluate Vinny on wins and losses - 1999 - 10-6 2000 - 8-8 2002 - 7-9 2003 - 5-11 2004 - 6-10 2005 - 10-6 2006 - 5-11 2007 - 9-7 2008 - 8-8 2009 - 4-9 That is 72 wins and 85 losses. Make your own conclusions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 That's the problem: His job isn't to find talent; it's to assemble a team. that's the same thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 I will evaluate Vinny on wins and losses - 1999 - 10-6 2000 - 8-8 2002 - 7-9 2003 - 5-11 2004 - 6-10 2005 - 10-6 2006 - 5-11 2007 - 9-7 2008 - 8-8 2009 - 4-9 That is 72 wins and 85 losses. Make your own conclusions Vinny coaches the team? there's a lot to fault Vinny for, but not the teams win/loss record Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinnyfan57 Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Vinny coaches the team?there's a lot to fault Vinny for, but not the teams win/loss record Then you can't give him any credit when we win either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Vinny coaches the team?there's a lot to fault Vinny for, but not the teams win/loss record It is if he picked the coach...and a good chunk of the players... His job is to assemble the right people together to get a job done. He hasn't done that (see 4-9). I guarantee if we had a trophey he would be taking credit, so he needs to take credit for this mess also. :dallasuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 CONTINUITY. We're getting it right now. Don't change up what's working, we're 4-9 but anyone that says this isn't the best football this team has played in several years is simply lying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeezgob Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 We're 4-9 and they're arguing that this vindicates Cerrato????? It was the Raiders!!! They've stunk even worse than us this year! That win belongs to the defense, they put Gradkowski out of the game and the result was never in doubt after that. There's no way based on our lack of OL depth and our woeful, inept performances in the first nine weeks of the season that Cerrato, or Zorn should be back next year. It took us nine weeks to start playing like the season actually meant anything! An early finish to the sason, an extended break for the players, an easy training camp again and it'll be the same slow start again next year. Cerrato coming back again next year simply means more of what we've endured for the last decade. Vinny's had plenty of time to get this right, but he's simply not up to the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinnyfan57 Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 How does Vinny get any credit for Sherman Smith knowing Ganther, Dockery knowing Mike Williams (which was a very poor plan that happened to work out ok), and Campbell playing better after our FO tried to replace him twice over the offseason? We have no-name players and back-ups playing hard and looking good in meaningless games in November. The roster and philosophy he brought into the season are the reason those games are meaningless. Our front office loves overpaid big names. Aside from London Fletcher, NOT ONE of those big acquisitions has been worth what we paid / gave up for them and they NEVER figure it out. Now that all of those old, worthless, prima donnas that they build there team around have broke down / thrown in the towel, our young, hungry guys are PLAYING HARD and Vinny wants some credit? I spit on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsNumberOne Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Then you can't give him any credit when we win either. He's not; he's saying that since we "can" win he's laying blame on the coaches. To which, I call BS. You have to have someone guiding the team's vision. You can't just throw a bunch of guys together and tell a coach "ok make this group win." It doesn't work that way. You've got to find people who want to play, who want to win, who have the skills, and who fit the philosophy. Then you've also got to make sure your most important positions are covered, especially where there is a high incidence of injury (injury-prone players, or positions that take major beatings, etc). Over the years, we've seen very little of these qualities come from our personnel selection, and they are all key ingredients. The head coach and the coaching staff to some extent (and in our case, it was actually a larger extent than usual I think) is selected by the FO. The FO shares direct blame for their failures as well, in particular when they are unproven commodities who were given a chance, or when in mid-season you are forced to insert yourself into the decision making process that causes us to RIGHTFULLY be the joke of the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sempre_victrix Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 I predict that we win 5 games, Vinny keeps his job, Zorn is replaced, and Campbell is given a 2 year deal. We draft a QB in the first round, unless Okung is there, and that pick ends up being a bust or slightly better. What we should do is fire Vinny and the entire coaching staff. We hire a competent GM who makes ALL football decisions. Allow all of those fired (except VInny) to then interview for the jobs. Keep Campbell with a 2 year deal. If Okung falls to us, take him in the first round. If not, trade the pick for lower in the first and get a second or third in it's place. We need at least 3 OL in the first 4 picks. A late round QB prospect would be fine if one were available. Colt is not our future. This latest spurt of decent play is foiling my plans...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 CONTINUITY. We're getting it right now. Don't change up what's working, we're 4-9 but anyone that says this isn't the best football this team has played in several years is simply lying. this is the best our offense has played, meanwhile our defense has been wildly inconsistent inconsistency has been the only constant of Cerrato's reign as GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sempre_victrix Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Let's not get too excited about beating the Raiders. We were lucky to stay with the Saints as well as we did, despite the mistakes that led to our loss. We matched up well and our DL and secondary kept just enough pressure on Drew to throw him off balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 CONTINUITY. We're getting it right now. Don't change up what's working, we're 4-9 but anyone that says this isn't the best football this team has played in several years is simply lying. Don't forget that just because we are playing BETTER doesn't mean we are playing GREAT. And that is what we need to be doing. :dallasuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Tater Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 True, but we are far from conventional as far as the front office goes... so I have no idea. I think Vinny drafted Orakpo to be a LB, but Blache has been smart enough to increase his role as a rush DE. No, Vinny drafted the Rak to play. The Rak was a shiny new toy for Danny to make up for losing out on the QB splash he wanted to make. It was also Vinny's first sole 1st rounder (picks from 2004 to 2007 were Gibbs) since Ramsey (bust) so Vinny had something to prove . Blache put him at SAM because that was the only position available where he'd get a decent number of snaps (along with nickle DE). Blache showed what he wanted when he kept Daniels and re-signed Wynn while letting most of his SAMs go. He ALWAYS planned to start Carter and Daniels backed by Wynn and Jackson and thought he might get a grade A backer in the draft. If no SAM spot had been available, the Rak would have been Carter's back-up and nickle DE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeGibbs3.0 Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 congratulations vinny for producing a team with 0 nfc east wins, 1 road win and 1 win vs a winning team. Any one who can't see the positives is on a agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sisko Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 I understand what you're saying, but has the offensive line really played that badly lately? I don't think so, and those are the backups Cerrato brought in/relied on. Sure, they're not starters, but how many teams have more than one starter quality backup, or even any? Not many, I'd say.I'm starting to think that Cerrato is actually doing a decent job. ...and I'm starting to think someone delusional has taken over your account. Look, no NFL personnel guy worth a wooden nickel would go into a season with an old Samules and a "starting" RT that would struggle to be the backup RT on most of the rest of the teams in the league. To make matters even worse, our 1.5 starting OTs were backed up by the biggest loser and a journeyman turnstile. And that's what Cerrato thought was a playoff roster?? Not to mention that said roster was led by Cerrato's HC candidate who was clearly in way over his head. Speaking of delusional....:doh: Look, I have liked some of what Cerrato has done since his promotion. In particular, I think he's done a good job of surrounding himself with scouts that unlike him and Snyder, can *gasp* actually evaluate talent. As a result, he seems to have finally hit with Sleepy, Thomas, Orakpo, et al. Now, if Vinny can just find the second coming of Jim Druckenmiller to plug in as our franchise QB, we're all set. I'm sorry but when one steps back and looks at our cousin Vinny's body of work as a whole, he's been mediocre. And that's being incredibly generous on my part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphil006 Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 yea... after a 2-5 start... we have gone 2-4... Vindicate nothing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphil006 Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 ...and I'm starting to think someone delusional has taken over your account.Look, no NFL personnel guy worth a wooden nickel would go into a season with an old Samules and a "starting" RT that would struggle to be the backup RT on most of the rest of the teams in the league. To make matters even worse, our 1.5 starting OTs were backed up by the biggest loser and a journeyman turnstile. And that's what Cerrato thought was a playoff roster?? Not to mention that said roster was led by Cerrato's HC candidate who was clearly in way over his head. Speaking of delusional....:doh: Look, I have liked some of what Cerrato has done since his promotion. In particular, I think he's done a good job of surrounding himself with scouts that unlike him and Snyder, can *gasp* actually evaluate talent. As a result, he seems to have finally hit with Sleepy, Thomas, Orakpo, et al. Now, if Vinny can just find the second coming of Jim Druckenmiller to plug in as our franchise QB, we're all set. I'm sorry but when one steps back and looks at our cousin Vinny's body of work as a whole, he's been mediocre. And that's being incredibly generous on my part. Part of being a GM is structuring the organization in such a way that is condusive to being successful... Vinny has not done that. I agree with your post. Anyone can draft a starter or sign a starter... because someone has to start. No respectable head coach that has other options will coach here... with Vinny Cerrato in charge... If they fire Zorn, I'm thinking they're going to bring in Steve Mariucci... And we'll continue to fight for a winning record... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 I understand what you're saying, but has the offensive line really played that badly lately? I don't think so, and those are the backups Cerrato brought in/relied on. Sure, they're not starters, but how many teams have more than one starter quality backup, or even any? Not many, I'd say.I'm starting to think that Cerrato is actually doing a decent job. And that OLine play improving has also lead to JC improving. Which would mean the OLine has been a major part of the teams problems all along. Meaning the unit that never was addressed was the heart of the problem. If our skill players can improve dramatically with a small improvement along the line... why wasn't the line addressed previously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Tater Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Wow, people defending vinny, I did not see this coming..... A couple of nice games and on go the blinders...... It is what it is people, 4 and 9. Most of the people "defending" Vinny are simply "defending" him against attacks that are incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sempre_victrix Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 The Redskins have not draftred OL in the first 2 rounds since 2001, I think. Pretty pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 that's the same thing No, it's not. The problem this front office has had is that it has no long range vision. Not even really a three year vision (even though they keep talking about three year plans). Coaches are supposed to be obsessed with now and who will succeed today and win today's game. GM's are supposed to furnish that but also be mostly concerned with generating the folks for tomorrow. Historically, this FO has been too reactive. In trying to only meet this minute's immediate need, they wind up neglecting too many areas until they become critical problems. Then they go into emergency patch mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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