JimmiJo Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 http://web.warpathconfidential.com/?p=2586 Vindicating Vinny By John Pappas Warpath Confidential Editor A funny thing happened on the way to an historically bad season for the Washington Redskins; they started playing as well as anyone in the NFC East. After a 2-6 start to the season, one that featured some of the worst offense seen in years, a rash of injuries to starters, and a shake up in the coaching duties, the team looked all but dead. But beginning in the second half of the Atlanta game in early November, the team started playing a much better brand of football. So much so that they are now competing with teams like Philadelphia and New Orleans, and breaking season scoring highs three weeks running, with Sunday their biggest margin of victory since Jim Zorn became head coach. But for a few missed field goals, and one or two poor defensive stands, the Redskins could be sitting at 7-6. And no-one can figure out why this is, or who gets the credit. Click the link to read the entire article... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Vinny ignoring the OL for two years suddenly gets a pass? I think not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techboy Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Vinny ignoring the OL for two years suddenly gets a pass? I think not. I understand what you're saying, but has the offensive line really played that badly lately? I don't think so, and those are the backups Cerrato brought in/relied on. Sure, they're not starters, but how many teams have more than one starter quality backup, or even any? Not many, I'd say. I'm starting to think that Cerrato is actually doing a decent job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraw238 Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 vinny ignoring the ol for two years suddenly gets a pass? I think not. 4-9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HailGreen28 Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Last two games have been good offensively. If that continues, we're on to something and Vinny's picks look a LOT better. If the team can hang with the good teams left on our schedule, and that means that Vinny finally gets it, great. If it means we're stuck with Vinny building a 4-9 (4-12, 5-11) team every year, this is bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addicted Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 I see this website posted on here week after week and normally I read it and think it's just a rehash of the weeks activity and over all it's lacking like most other journalism today any original thought but this is the first time I've read it and thought "damn good write up". Defending Vinny? You know your going to get flamed and that it's a completely unpopular thought but right now that's the right thing to do. Vinny deserves more credit on the forum then 90% of the posters here give him and that was a great article. Vinny screwed up? Sure, but he's not nearly the idiot that some of you think he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryren Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Eh, although my first reaction is no, Vinny does not get a pass for not addressing needs on the OL. But we're talking about how Campbell has played better the last couple of weeks, and the OL is doing a bit better. It still needs addressed, but it is doing better with the patchwork parts it has been given. Some of the young / new guys need to pick up a few blocks though. I believe it was Ganther that let one of the Raiders DL get through scott clean and clocked Campbell.. Hopefuly this develops as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HailGreen28 Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 I see this website posted on here week after week and normally I read it and think it's just a rehash of the weeks activity and over all it's lacking like most other journalism today any original thought but this is the first time I've read it and thought "damn good write up". Defending Vinny? You know your going to get flamed and that it's a completely unpopular thought but right now that's the right thing to do. Vinny deserves more credit on the forum then 90% of the posters here give him and that was a great article. Vinny screwed up? Sure, but he's not nearly the idiot that some of you think he is.How soon we forget 2000, Danny and Vinny's fantasy football year. Or the 2003-2004 debacle, when Vinny was picking players for Spurrier and we ended up laughingstocks.Vinny and Danny started with a playoff team and ran the team into the ground from 1999-2003. The trend so far is still the same from 2008-2009. We went from playoffs 2007, to .500 in 2008, to 4-9 now. I'm thrilled that maybe this won't be Spurrier 2.0. That things will turn around. But Vinny and Danny still haven't produced anything but disappointment so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
authentic Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 The fact that the back ups have been playing better than the starters says something about Vinny's evaluation of top flight talent. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that young, fast, and hungry is always better than injured, slow, and overpaid. I hope the FO has learned thier lesson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techboy Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 The fact that the back ups have been playing better than the starters says something about Vinny's evaluation of top flight talent. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that young, fast, and hungry is always better than injured, slow, and overpaid. I hope the FO has learned thier lesson. The question there is who is making the decisions on the players that start. Usually that's the coaching staff, not the personnel guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
authentic Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 The question there is who is making the decisions on the players that start. Usually that's the coaching staff, not the personnel guy. Really, then why is ARE, for instance, still returning punts? Is it because the coaching staff believes he gives the team the best chance to get yardage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeGibbs3.0 Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 I am just glad i dont live in dc anymore. All of this propaganda. Positive articles towards the end of the season so redskins fans can renew their season tickets. Its all politics down there. When you are away from the propaganda you can see the organization is probaly the worst run in sports. They are not rebuilding and yet they stink so bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big z Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 bottom line, Levi is playing as good or better than Samuels did when he was in there and Mike Williams is a beast at RG. vinnie has lucked into a decent o line imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techboy Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Really, then why is ARE, for instance, still returning punts? Is it because the coaching staff believes he gives the team the best chance to get yardage? Zorn says it's his decision. I just heard him on the radio talking about not feeling comfortable using, say, Thomas instead. Do you have some reason to believe that Cerrato is forcing the coaches to play certain players and not others? That's not how things usually work. bottom line, Levi is playing as good or better than Samuels did when he was in there and Mike Williams is a beast at RG.vinnie has lucked into a decent o line imo. If he selected the players, how is that luck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktball74 Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 I'm not letting Vinny totally off the hook, but most of the older/over-payed players are left over from the Joe Gibbs regime and were hand picked by Gibbs. Maybe not all of them, but most of them are left from the Gibb 2nd regime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoRUSupposed2Be Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 The question there is who is making the decisions on the players that start. Usually that's the coaching staff, not the personnel guy. Someone is paying attention. Why hasn't this coaching staff been playing the best players to help this team win?! It's because player's like Randel 'El and any other unworthy highly paid position are allowed to bicker and moan about their unfair treatment. Unbelievable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikie Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 I'm not as optimistic on vinny's outlook as a competent GM, but will give him credit for finding servicable players late in the draft... the fact that the young receivers are finally showing up could be a sign that vinny was correct in assessing them and the late development more an indictment on zorn's system than the actual players... I mean it's not like the veterans on the squad flourished in the system either... but the oline issues, to me, illustrate a GM at his absolute worst... yes, we found a bunch of throwaways, some years removed from the league, that are playing better than our starters had at the beginning of the year, but the gamble vinny took with the oline, counting on guys in their 30's, coming off season ending injuries, is inexcusable... the way I see it, vinny did a decent job repairing a situation he royally screwed up in the beginning, costing us a season in the process... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Day Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Vinny has done a much better job then he is given credit for. Considering he gets no credit that isn't saying much. I will say that the "roadcones" that we have at OL are playing much better then anyone ever suspected they would. Mike Williams looks to be a brilliant move at Guard. This OL is much better then we could have hoped for as they have started to gell. Get a first round OT and a center to groom or replace Rabach A lot of our early problems also revolved around Portis not practicing and his game day performances. He needs to go. It says tons about him when almost anyone else they play when he is out does better then he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Day Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Really, then why is ARE, for instance, still returning punts? Is it because the coaching staff believes he gives the team the best chance to get yardage? Considering Zorn has said he likes ARE's "hands" back there, I don't see how that is Vinnie's fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Zorn may just be saying the political thing there. Not good to trash a player publicly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenaa Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 The question there is who is making the decisions on the players that start. Usually that's the coaching staff, not the personnel guy. Yup. And I'm convinced that decision is on the head of Buges. Sin to say, I know, but I think he is loyal to a fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Day Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Zorn may just be saying the political thing there. Not good to trash a player publicly. Agreed, but I think that falls on Danny Smith who is returning the kicks. Either way it isn't Da Vin. :cool2: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 bottom line, Levi is playing as good or better than Samuels did when he was in there and Mike Williams is a beast at RG.vinnie has lucked into a decent o line imo. Uh, no, Levi isn't playing that great. He got owned by Justin Tuck and he had his issues against the Raiders. Samuels was still the better player and would be preferred over Jones. At best, Jones is a stopgap. And let's give some credit to Vinny with Mike Williams for 1) taking a chance on him and 2) keeping him on the roster even after he struggled. A lot of credit still goes to Dockery for convincing him to try out, but Vinny deserves some here. At the same time, he's hasn't been everything we've wanted him to be. But, considering he was a shot in the dark, it has been a positive move. Vinny's time here has been mixed, but in my eyes has mostly been positive. So far, the focus has been on draft picks and the long-term for the most part, not signing a lot of players in FA and mostly making change through the draft. His picks seem to be good ones for the most part. On the bad side, not being able to do enough for the OL and trading for Jason Taylor. Some of that is also bad luck, but you don't get cut slack much for bad luck. OL has been a long-term problem and one that has been the cost of Gibbs wanting to make a SB push in 2006 and making some bad trades. Taylor was a trade to fill a short-term need that didn't work in the short term or the long term, some of which was beyond the control of Vinny. It also hurt us in the draft last year. I had reservations with the way Vinny has handled Zorn, but in the end he's looking pretty good, which was hard for me to imagine. I did suggest that taking stuff off of Zorn's plate could free him up to oversee other parts of the team and that seems to have been part of the positive result here. Part of it could also be that putting a more experienced playcaller out there also helps. I think the answer is part of both of those things, including the development of young players and other guys stepping up. The true value of the FO right now will be how they handle the offseason. It is one for interesting decisions and one where the right answer is not clear. Does Zorn come back? Does Campbell? Personally, I think they've earned the right to come back, but I don't know for sure if it is the RIGHT decision. One thing I do know is that if we don't actually stick to something history will likely repeat itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebornempowered Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 A lot of our early problems also revolved around Portis not practicing and his game day performances. He needs to go. It says tons about him when almost anyone else they play when he is out does better then he does. This is the elephant in the room in most of these articles. They all say that the offense started to click in the second half of the Atlanta game. Golly gee.....what happened in the first half of the Atlanta game again. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jflow78 Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Actually, I think a big part of what's been holding us back IS Zorn's hesitancy to allow some of our younger players play more often because, he doesn't "trust" them. What an idiot, if it weren't for injuries we would have shipped DT and Fred Davis out as complete busts. Now they're playing great. I've pretty much had it with Zorn, Vinny at least picked players that are producing, not that I'd cry if he were gone (or even think twice about it), but I'm more ready for Zorn to leave at this point, if it weren't for Sherm Lewis we'd still be running to the left during every down within 5 yards of the end zone, and our players would still be making all the dumb little mistake which make up poor execution, which he talked about for a year, but couldn't fix until Lewis showed up. If we had brought Lewis in at the beginning of the season, we'd probably have a great record right now. (and who's talking about Zorn's lost "authority" and all that garbage now?! NO ONE, it was his authority that was holding us back apparently) And, for whoever thinks Vinny was picking out players for Spurrier is forgeting that Spurrier was picking players for Spurrier. He went after every player he'd had in college that he could get, and he was pretty vocal about it in the press. He talked all the time about how his offense would overcome all and it didn't matter who the players were. I doubt Vinny had much to do with it, except perhaps the Ramsey pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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