This loss is entirely the fault of management - chiefly, Vinny Cerrato. Here's why

[hitmandm]

Campbell is the problem. This is why ppl give franchise qbs so much money. Its why they trade a plethora of draft picks for one. They are that important. A slow dumb clueless QB--like jc--can wreck a whole team.

[KingGibbs]

100% correct. He had a chance to address the OL last year with three 2nd round picks where he chose pass catchers instead of addressing an obvious area of need with at least ONE of those picks.

I just someone would show Vinny a dictiionary, turn to the letter D and let him read the meaning of depth because once again (It's the norm) he shows he's clueless.

[WVUforREDSKINS]

Campbell is the problem. This is why ppl give franchise qbs so much money. Its why they trade a plethora of draft picks for one. They are that important. A slow dumb clueless QB--like jc--can wreck a whole team.

I don't know about that. It doesn't matter who you have when you are under pressure all the time. Which is the result of not drafting lineman and the fault of management.

[Dieselpower44]

How would firing Jim Zorn help anything? It means Campbell would have to learn a new system - if he's allowed to stay. If not, we have a rookie QB that would set this franchise back 3 years with a team that's built to win now. Overhauling the coaching staff won't bring instant success. It is this same demand for instant change and instant success from Dan Snyder that has prevented this team from being built properly. Joe Theisman once said on how to build a team: "You build your defense, you build your offensive line, and then you get your quarterback." It seems like Cerrato and Snyder have bypassed this second step.

You see the Giants or the Eagles play and their quarterbacks have all day to throw. You don't need all-pro receivers or even an all-pro quarterback to have an offense run smoothly. Bradshaw scored a 23 yard touchdown today off right tackle without even being touched. When's the last time we've seen blocking like that from our team? We don't even get our linemen into the second level, blocking linebackers and safeties.

Our yards-per-play went down an entire yard when Samuels went out last year. That stat, above all, should be the tell-tale sign of how an offensive line is the most essential ingredient to flow and success for an offense. We never seem to get in rhythm because we can't run the ball and we can't give Campbell even a few seconds to stand in the pocket, look downfield, go through his progressions and make a good pass.

This isn't Zorn's fault. This isn't Campbell's fault. Replacing either to make a change for change's sake is EXACTLY what has gotten us in this position today. Management needs to sit tight, add youth and talent to the offensive line through the draft and free agency, and slowly replenish areas of our team that is getting up there in age and ability (OL, RB, WR, DE, MLB, etc.). Making wholesale changes will just keep this franchise in flux, forever the offseason champions and midseason strugglers.

We don't need instance success. Zorn and Campbell are contributing factors as well. We need to clean from the top down and get a solid GM in here, with a solid coaching staff to rebuild this team.

[Hooper]

Poor Campbell might never get a real chance in the NFL.

Please.

The line and front office are bad.

But the game is simply too fast for JC.

We will see Todd Collins this year. Maybe soon.

At a certain point, even if the QB isn't the only problem, you have to make a change just to shake things up. Philly even did it with McNabb last year. When you think about it, it is pretty amazing just how much job security JC has had since he got here.

Fact is we have always struggled to score with JC at the helm. Before Zorn and with Zorn.

[SkinsTillIDie]

I agree, but how do you explain Zorn calling a stretch play from the endzone? I don't think I have ever seen that before...............:doh:

Well, we had just run the ball up the gut on first down, getting a yard. Running again is obviously the right call - that leaves us with really only a few options. We're not going to run a misdirection play because we don't have the offensive line to do so. We can't run a toss because of where we are on the field. We could run it up the middle again but in all probability, that's what the Panthers are expecting. The stretch play should, at worst, get us a negligible gain. With Big Mike at guard, we actually had an advantage in that position, so running right was the right call. Unfortunately, Heyer is such a bad run blocker that het got pushed backwards 3 yards off the snap into Portis - you have to expect your right tackle to at least hold his ground, if not get some sort of a push.

Unfortunately, our line is so bad that we couldn't prevent a safety when that was really our only goal. I told my friend next to me when we made that 4th down stop that a safety was inevitable - I have to imagine that the majority of Redskins fans thought the same at that time.

Zorn's not the one running the ball or blocking. Again, it's about execution. And our offensive line quite simply cannot execute the simple blocking calls.

[SkinsHokieFan]

But, it all starts with the owner, so difficult to do anything until the culture changes.

And that is the key.

Snyder has created a culture of poison at Redskins Park.

Football is not the focus out in Ashburn. Its pretty much everything else.

Until Snyder either leaves or drastically changes, this team is doomed

[Fred Jones]

Unfortunately, the coaching staff will be gone at the end of the season. I would mind seeing the coaches stay except Zorn needs an offensive coordinator that calls the plays.

Also, it might be time for Blache to retire. Not saying he should, but he needs to determine if he should come back.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Unfortunately, the coaching staff will be gone at the end of the season. I would mind seeing the coaches stay except Zorn needs an offensive coordinator that calls the plays.

Also, it might be time for Blache to retire. Not saying he should, but he needs to determine if he should come back.

Blache just looks like a guy, while he tries hard, who should probably, and would rather be, doing something else besides being a part of this circus.

He is too good of a person to have to suffer with the nonsense at Redskins park

[ExoDus84]

Yup....agree with everything.

Poor Campbell might never get a real chance in the NFL.

Poor Campbell my ass. Even when the guy has time, he doesnt do anything right. The protection in this game was bad. The protection in our previous 4 games has not been all that bad, at all. What has he done? Very, very little. It doesnt matter if he has 10 seconds or 1 second, he cant read defenses and make things happen. There are plenty of quarterbacks who are sacked more than campbell, yet still produce more and on a regular basis. Ben Rothlisberger ring a bell? Dude was the most sacked QB the past few years, and still managed to put 2 rings around his fingers. The difference is he can make plays when he has to, while Campbell is garbage. Zorn is garbage as well. Both of those two need to be gone, and a new rebuild is in order for the offense.

[Renegade7]

OP, you are absolutely correct. We can't expect this team to be successful or even competitive when we can't get the right players to control the line of scrimage. Our offense played its heart out today, 4 play goal line stand, 3 sacks and 2 turnovers. We were also able to will ourselves to get TDs in the redzone after the beginning on the season we couldn't score TDs down there to save our life.

All this doesn't matter because Zorn and JC can't execute the offense due to the obvious fact the o-line isn't good enough to allow it. If anything should be blown up, it's the offensive line. Keep Sameuls if we believe he can play RT, but everyone else needs to be replaced with players that can actually hold their blocks or at least not get thrown around like ragdolls by inferior players on inferior football teams.

Fix the o-line, and keep Zorn and the core intact. We WILL start winning football games again, I guaran-f*ckin-tee it.

[mhearn]

thats what happens when your draft philosophy is take best player available.

[Madison Redskin]

Our coaching staff, after reviewing tape from every game from last year, established that our offensive line was our primary weakness - the area that needed to be addressed first and foremost in the offseason. And naturally, Vinny Cerrato does nothing but sign a left guard who was cut by Buffalo (Buffalo!) for underperforming.

YOU LIE!

We also signed a 400 lb. fatty who hadn't played football in 3 years.

[Buffalo_Soldier]

You can't pin this loss on Campbell, or Zorn, or really even the refs, as much as you may want to. This loss is on management, specifically Vinny Cerrato.

How can you possibly explain this offensive line? D'Anthony Batiste at left tackle - an undrafted free agent who has played on the practice squad for 3 other teams in his 4 year career. Stephon Heyer at right tackle - another undrafted free agent, a player who has struggled consistently at the position over the entirety of his short career. And Mike Williams at right guard - a natural right tackle who had to lose 100 pounds in the offseason just to get in shape for training camp, after being retired for a number of years.

We have an obscene lack of talent on the line - our starting line was bad enough to begin with but our depth is simply laughable. Every fan could see this last year. Our coaching staff, after reviewing tape from every game from last year, established that our offensive line was our primary weakness - the area that needed to be addressed first and foremost in the offseason. And naturally, Vinny Cerrato does nothing but sign a left guard who was cut by Buffalo (Buffalo!) for underperforming.

We haven't been able to run the ball consistently all year. Blame Zorn all you want for the redzone runs that haven't worked, but the simple fact of the matter is that we SHOULD be able to get one yard when we need it. We should be able to run the ball and get positive yards within the 5 yard line. We should be able to get a yard when backed up on our goalline. Instead, our right tackle gets pushed so far backwards that our designed run is disrupted and we allow a safety.

We didn't see our offense today. Our offense is not 2 step drops and quick slants. We couldn't even run play action because defenders were in the backfield within a second on every snap. We aren't a good running team, yet Zorn had to call runs early and often all game just to protect Campbell. If we wanted to throw downfield, we had to go to max protect, keeping 7 or 8 back to block. Our lack of any semblance of an offensive line prevented our offense from doing anything today. And this game is a microcosm for every game we've played this year - not being able to run the ball, not being able to protect Campbell and give him time and space to make passes downfield. Whenever we need to throw the ball, it seems like Campbell has to evade 2 or 3 defenders just to step up in the pocket. How many 3rd down plays broke down today because of a lack of protection?

And that comes down to Vinny Cerrato's absolute failure to build even an adequate offensive line after years of neglect and downright arrogance. Arrogance that his undrafted find in Heyer would be able to hold down the fort. Arrogance that our line would stay healthy, even when it's amongst the oldest lines in the league (and has lots of history of injury problems). Arrogance that he can pick up linemen from other teams' practice squads and retirement lists and have them produce at a high NFL standard. How can Snyder expect our offense to be explosive when we can't run block and can't pass protect?

But of course, it's Zorn's fault we're not scoring points. And Campbell's too - put everything on their shoulders. Mike Shanahan will fix everything, fire up Redskins One... It's not too late to trade next year's 1st for a lineman, is it?

I completely agree with your statements, it's the truth and the players should be able to get the most basic plays done.

My thoughts are that with 4 years of their inability to trust their quarterback to make a play when it counts maybe they are thinking "Why kill myself we don't have a chance anyway". You can see it in the way players walk back to the huddle, the way they walk off the field. When was the last time any of us saw the sidelines abuzz with excitement. Been more than a year that I can recall.

Unless the strategy is to suck as bad as possible in order to get a better spot in the first round, I don't understand why we can't insert Collins to see if it won't create a spark. Sometimes teams need that to get going and believe again. If I was playing on a team that hardly ever put up 20 points a game and we had heart attack finishes to ever game, I would begin to wonder if I should give it all I got too.

[Hooper]

Blache just looks like a guy, while he tries hard, who should probably, and would rather be, doing something else besides being a part of this circus.

He is too good of a person to have to suffer with the nonsense at Redskins park

Agreed.

Dude is just fed up with the circus and Dan.

[scruffylookin]

Of course I agree with everyone that the FO is the problem with the Redskins.

But Brian Mitchell touched on something during the postgame show, the Redskins organization is a bunch of liars too.

They tell us how well Rinehardt is playing (despite most of us noting that he looks awful) and then they mysteriously make him inactive and start Williams instead.

Zorn says it's not because Rinehardt is hurt but rather because Williams looked so good in practice.

So you not only bench a player who has played well for you (according to you) but you go so far as deactivate him?

That's another reason why people hate this FO. They are incompetent but on top of it, can't even admit to their mistakes.

Hey Danny, Hey Vinny. If Zorn is in over his head and isn't up to the task, THAT IS YOUR FAULT! You hired him.

[SkinsTillIDie]

We don't need instance success. Zorn and Campbell are contributing factors as well. We need to clean from the top down and get a solid GM in here, with a solid coaching staff to rebuild this team.

Unfortunatey, we're a team built for instant success. We have far too many players on big, long-term contracts to "clean up" the team. And really, we're actually not that far off. Our defense is superb and is the only reason we may win 6 games this year. Kelly and Thomas are getting better and absolutely look better than last year - they will be contributing factors in our passing game for a while and I'm excited to see them improve, particularly in the oft-discussed 3rd year jump. We undoubtedly need a running back that can make defenders miss and make the occasional big play. We have a probowl tight end, a playmaking WR in Moss and a very good slot receiver in Randle El. What we are missing is four-fifths of a line.

Give Campbell just a medicore line and see what he can do with time to find a receiver. Give him some time so he doesn't have to scramble around the pocket like a madman after just a second with defenders swarming him. He's looked very good in spurts this year. But when we can't run the ball and we can't protect the quarterback - and thereby can only run quick slants and quick outs - what potential does the offense have? Tom Brady couldn't make our offense much better. We all saw how ineffective he was in the Super Bowl when his offensive line broke down. Campbell is in a significantly worse situation.

And Zorn is also in a rough situation, not being able to take deep shots or use his spread offense. We moved the ball extremely well in the 4 WR formations earlier this year but today, we couldn't go to them because our offensive line couldn't block for ****. Both Zorn and Campbell are being absurdly handcuffed by the line, and both will likely be shepherded out of DC when the season's over... Bringing in many more years of uncertainty in revolving door-like fashion.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Great thread and it's true.

This front office has done a very poor job of putting together the talent on this team. There is some decent individual talent, but it's mostly at positions that are dependent on other positions (where we lack talent).

[Louskins9193]

Well I agree with the OP wholeheartedly and while were at it this receiving core is a joke as well, Thomas needs to go, Kelly is a little better but not much. Again it all falls back on Cerrato and his inability to judge talent and the man who put him in charge.

[bird_1972]

Snyder needs to sell this team.

In a big way.

[SkinsTillIDie]

Just like Haynesworth and Orakpo and a strong defensive line was supposed to make the rest of the defense better (and it has), a strong offensive line will do the same thing to the offense. A strong offensive line makes the running back look much better with bigger gaps and more blocks on the second level. A strong offensive line gives the quarterback time to sit back, scan the field, make a decision and step into his throw. A strong offensive line gives the receivers time to get open. Our line does none of these things.

Look at the Giants. Brandon Jacobs and Ahmad Bradshaw look like probowl running backs. Eli Manning looks like a franchise quarterback. Steve Smith looks like a true #1 receiver. But it's their line that makes that entire team go - it's that line that allows that offense to consistently march down the field, game after game, with routine success. It's that line that allows them to beat up on bad teams week after week.

Football has been and always will be a game about controlling the line of scrimmage. On offense, we lose that battle every single week. I fear for our Week 7 matchup against the Eagles - it may be a repeat of the Body Bag game.

[jason61872]

How would firing Jim Zorn help anything? It means Campbell would have to learn a new system - if he's allowed to stay.

He'll have to learn a new system anyway, because odds are he wont be here next year. I was hoping that he would develop into a good QB, but he hasnt. He wont be signed by the 'Skins next year, or if he is, he will be told that he'll just be a backup for a new QB in a new system under a new head coach.

I agree though that management is the problem. It would be a miracle for us to be able to get rid of Snyder, but it is possible for us to get rid of Cerrato. Any big name coach coming in here will insist on it.

[justice98]

Getting rid of Cerrato won't do any good if all Snyder's gonna do is pick somebody who'll let him play GM. Cerrato can be called the player personnel guy, but you're crazy if you think Snyder's not heavily involved in player personnel as well. He needs to divest himself of player personnel altogether, and until he does that, dumping Cerrato is just a band aid.

[ADF]

The Redskins are paying for trading away all those 2nd, 3rd, and 4th round draft picks over the past five years.

[ddub52]

Where are the young draft picks on the line waiting in the wings? Rinehart is the only pick in recent memory to be drafted and by the looks of it, he seems like a bust

Exactly. If we had drafted some young talent on the O line it would have been great to mold them with the experience of some of our vets like Samuels and Thomas. The ability to do that is potentially over.