Obama wins Nobel Peace Prize

[nonniey]

He doesnt deserve it, BUT I dunno why so many people here are getting their panties in a knot.

This is really a prize for the American voting populace. Look, this is just the world's way of saying, "Thank you for getting rid of the neocons and their cowboy policies."

A graceful, "You're welcome" would be in order instead of whining about the over-popularity of Obama.

But some of y'all were born to whine.

Funny thing is the ones getting their panties in a knot are those that are defending the Peace Prize commitee (ie Baculus).

[NavyDave]

true. Though, if he had actually gotten rid of the neo-con policies, I think he would have been more deserving of the award.

But his own policies that have other nations considering dumping the dollar, humbling himself and the nation in front of dictators, despots and weakening us to the point that we suck like other nations apparently makes him deserving.

[Baculus]

What words did I put in your mouth? Man, you are delusional.

It is pointless

I'm done with you.

Like I presumed, you don't read other people's posts. You accused me of calling other people "stupid" due their disagreement with me. This is a false assertion. I replied with, "What? When I did ever say that

'people that disagree with [me] stupid'? Show me. The last two times I have asked for someone to do this, they had nothing to say."

Instead of demonstrating WHERE I called anyone "stupid," you got into a huff and declared that you are "done with me." Thus, instead of showing me where your stance was correct, you fled the thread.

Yes, it is pointless, like the rest of your previous responses. Also, if you noticed, the last person who also accused me of insulting also fled the thread instead of showing me where his accusations were valid.

Fail.

[Duncan]

Any peace activist with an ounce of credibility would tell you they have been sorely disappointed by Obama so far.

I'm not so sure about that. All of the "War is not the answer" signs have magically disappeared from my neighborhood. There are no more war protests on the square or losers standing on the corner with "honk if you want the troops home" signs.

Obama has brought peace to the left even if there has been little change in policy.

[Baculus]

Funny thing is the ones getting their panties in a knot are those that are defending the Peace Prize commitee (ie Baculus).

Where do I get my panties in my knot? The only thing that annoyed me was the fellow from Redstate who suggested that Obama won the award due to "affirmative action." If I ever get my panties in a "knot," you will surely know it, but defending the committee's decision while disagreeing with some of the President's attackers does not qualify for it.

Show me where I get my "panties in a knot" My prediction? You won't, and you will mysteriously disappear from the thread or you will reply with ":hysterical:" emotes.

[Mad Mike]

Here's my problem with that argument. Yes, everything you said is true. The dude was a murderous **** who neeeded to be removed. THat's fine. But be honest about it, and don't insult my intelligence by lying to me about why you want to take him out. If we had said: "he's a bad guy, murderer, and he tried to kill my daddy, i'm going to take him out" I could respect that. But the way we did it was bordline lying, and that I can't accept. In the same way I can't accept Clinton lying about 'not having relations with that woman'. Same thing. Tell me the ****ing truth!

I don't have a problem with it for the same reason that gangsters are often convicted of tax evasion even when we know they are guilty of far worse. Bush took the path that would get things done. You seem like an intelligent person. You cant believe that Bush was alone in his belief that the WMD was there. Clinton and Gore are both on record as saying Saddam had WMD when they were in power and they had access to the same intel.

Edit: Confirmed ties to terrorism? Where, link please. In fact, the fundamentalists hated Sadam. This is why we supported him in the 80s when he fought a war against Iran. The Bathists are secular, and "the terrorists" are, in teh case of Bin Laden, Muslim fundamentalists who want to impose Islamic law on the middle east. Osama hated Sadaam for setting up a secular government in the middle east. We, through our fumbling misunderstanding of the regional history, made allies out of traditional enemies.

http://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/iraqi/index.html

Iraqi Perspectives Project

Saddam and Terrorism:

Emerging Insights from Captured Iraqi Documents (Redacted)

Institute for Defense Analyses

November 2007 (released March 2008)

Abstract: Captured Iraqi documents have uncovered evidence that links the regime of Saddam Hussein to regional and global terrorism, including a variety of revolutionary, liberation, nationalist, and Islamic terrorist organizations. While these documents do not reveal direct coordination and assistance between the Saddam regime and the al Qaeda network, they do indicate that Saddam was willing to use, albeit cautiously, operatives affiliated with al Qaeda as long as Saddam could have these terrorist–operatives monitored closely. Because Saddam’s security organizations and Osama bin Laden’s terrorist network operated with similar aims (at least in the short term), considerable overlap was inevitable when monitoring, contacting, financing, and training the same outside groups. This created both the appearance of and, in some ways, a “de facto” link between the organizations. At times, these organizations would work together in pursuit of shared goals but still maintain their autonomy and independence because of innate caution and mutual distrust. Though the execution of Iraqi terror plots was not always successful, evidence shows that Saddam’s use of terrorist tactics and his support for terrorist groups remained strong up until the collapse of the regime.

I don't blame you for not knowing about this. When the report came out, news organizations reported it withthe blaring headlines "No Smoking Gun" and ignored any findings that showed Iraq was targeting Americans.

Did you know Saddam sent terrorist to Somalia to target Americans just like bin Laden did?

Here are some quotes from the actual report...

Iraq was a long-standing supporter of international terrorism. The existence of a memorandum (Extract 10) from the lIS to Saddam, written a decade before OPERATION IRAQI FREEDOM, provides detailed evidence of that support. Several of the organizations listed in this memorandum were designated as international terrorist organizations by the US Department of State.

Renewal and Jihad Organization

Secret Islamic Palestinian Organization established after the war. It believes in armed jihad against the Americans and Western interests. They also believe our leader [saddam Hussein], may God protect him, is the true leader in the war against the infidels. The organization's leaders live in Jordan... when they visited Iraq two months ago they demonstrated a willingness to carry out operations against American interests at any time. Two other memoranda in this folder are from Saddam through his Presidential Secretary to a member of the Revolutionary Council and to the IIS Director, respectively.

(the above group is only one of ten listed)

• In the first, from January 1993, and coinciding with the start of the US humanitarian intervention in Somalia, the Presidential Secretary informed the council member of Saddam's decision to "form a group to start hunting Americans present on Arab soil; especially Somalia."

• In the second memorandum, Saddam orders the IIS Director to revise a plan the IIS director had previously forwarded to include setting up operations inside Somalia. The overlap between bin Laden's and Saddam's interests in Somalia provides a tactical example of the parallel between Iraq and radical Islam: at the same time Saddam was ordering action in Somalia aimed at the American presence, Osama bin Laden was doing the same thing.

___________________________

Iraq and Iran were not the only states that wanted to use Palestinian terrorist organizations for their own purposes. For Saddam, these groups were often the means toward a common end and a tool to influence or manipulate an ally. One such example was a Palestinian Liberation Front leader, Abu aI-Abbas who lived in Iraq under Saddam's protection. He originally fled to Iraq to avoid an Italian warrant imposing five life terms for his part in the 1985 hijacking of the Italian cruise liner Achille Lauro and the murder of an American citizen. Abu al Abbas was captured later by US forces as they entered Baghdad in April 2003.

While in Iraq, Abbas often traveled to Gaza and reported back to Saddam on the conditions of the Palestinians and the various terrorist organizations there. In one note, he asks for Saddam's help in developing methods for the Palestinians to infiltrate Israeli military and security operations in order to "analyze the weak points in the enemy structure so as to select potential targets and our future hits.

__________________________

Other documents show Saddam's terror organizations could be deadly. They were willing to target not only Western interests but also to directly attack Americans. Uday Hussein reports to his father the results of one such terrorist strike that specifically targeted American aid workers with the UN

_________________________

When attacking Western interests, the competitive terror cartel came into play, particularly in the late 1990s. Captured documents reveal that the regime was willing to co-opt or support organizations it knew to be part of al Qaeda-as long as that organization's near-term goals supported Saddam's longterm vision. A directive (Extract 24) from the Director for International Intelligence in the IIS to an Iraqi operative in Bahrain orders him to investigate a particular terrorist group there, The Army of Muhammad.

"[July 2001]

We have learned of a group calling themselves The Army of Muhammad... has threatened Kuwaiti authorities and plans to attack American and Western interests...We need detailed information about this group, their activities, their objectives, and their most distinguished leaders. We need to know [to] whom they belong to and with whom they are connected. Give this subject your utmost attention."

"Information available to us is that the group is under the wings of bin Laden. They receive their directions from Yemen. Their objectives are the same as bIll Laden..."

A later note lists the group's objectives, among them:

• Jihad in the name of God.

• Striking the embassies and other Jewish and American interests anywhere in the world.

• Attacking the American and British military bases in the Arab land.

• Striking American embassies and interests unless the Americans pull out their forces from the Arab lands and discontinue their support for Israel.

• Disrupting oil exports [to] the Americans from Arab countries and

threatening tankers carrying oil to them.

A later memorandum from the same collection to the Director of the IIS reports that the Army of Muhammad is endeavoring to receive assistance [from Iraq] to implement its objectives, and that the local IIS station has been told to deal with them in accordance with priorities previously established. The IIS agent goes on to inform the Director that "this organization is an offshoot of bin Laden, but that their objectives are similar but with different names that can be a way of camouflaging the organization."

Here is what the news reported...

http://blogs.abcnews.com/rapidreport/2008/03/pentagon-report.html

You tell me. Is the fact that Iraq sent terrorists to Somalia to target Americans not newsworthy? Do you see any of the facts I posted above reported? Now ask yourself. Who is really lying to you and why?

[Baculus]

But his own policies that have other nations considering dumping the dollar, humbling himself and the nation in front of dictators, despots and weakening us to the point that we suck like other nations apparently makes him deserving.

I do not remember where he humbled himself in front of despots and dictators. When did this happen?

And the weakening of the dollar has been happening for a long time, before Obama was in office. This is why some true conservatives have been questioning the policies of both the Fed and previous administrations when they were printing money like there was no tomorrow.

Remember when Ron Paul brought this up at the RNC debate, and he was basically laughed at for this point?

[SnyderShrugged]

I do not remember where he humbled himself in front of despots and dictators. When did this happen?

And the weakening of the dollar has been happening for a long time, before Obama was in office. This is why some true conservatives have been questioning the policies of both the Fed and previous administrations when they were printing money like there was no tomorrow.

Remember when Ron Paul brought this up at the RNC debate, and he was basically laughed at for this point?

Cant debate that, the financial mess started long before this Pres took office.

(Though I am upset that he hasnt done more to break the trend, but thats a topic for another thread)

[Baculus]

You tell me. Is the fact that Iraq sent terrorists to Somalia to target Americans not newsworthy? Do you see any of the facts I posted above reported? Now ask yourself. Who is really lying to you and why?

I think it is newsworthy, but not worthy enough to invade a nation, topple its government, and spend hundreds of billions and thousands of American lives for it, just over this premise.

That is where our opinions diverge. You may think I am insane for this stance, but I think your own position is just as questionable.

[Baculus]

Cant debate that, the financial mess started long before this Pres took office.

(Though I am upset that he hasnt done more to break the trend, but thats a topic for another thread)

Maybe headway will be made with the Fed transparency act.

[SnyderShrugged]

Maybe headway will be made with the Fed transparency act.

I really hope so. It's the best chance for it right now too.

I'm real worried it will be watered down in the end though.

[nonniey]

Where do I get my panties in my knot? The only thing that annoyed me was the fellow from Redstate who suggested that Obama won the award due to "affirmative action." If I ever get my panties in a "knot," you will surely know it, but defending the committee's decision while disagreeing with some of the President's attackers does not qualify for it.

Show me where I get my "panties in a knot" My prediction? You won't, and you will mysteriously disappear from the thread or you will reply with ":hysterical:" emotes.

LOL, you're hilarious. Surely you're joking, this reply itself proves my point.

[cjcdaman]

Of course there is arguing with me -- I debate people all the time. What I don't like are people putting words in my mouth as their attempts to argue with me.

So present me an ACTUAL argument and you will surely get a response. But if you give me a bunch of rubbish with no basis -- outright lying about what I said -- and I will call you out for it.

If you don't like what I say, then present me a good argument.

I didn't put words in your mouth. I simply laughed at your words. I'm not trying to debate with you. I'm simply having a good time reading your posts.

[Predicto]

Curious which peers you speak of?

Chavez?

Castro?

Zevalya?

Qaddafi?

Assad?

Immanutjob?

Cause it seemed we had about the same relations with the others

They don't seem to think so. Seriously, the rest of the world is very happy with Obama.

Again, I'm not saying that he deserves this prize, but he has made a huge difference in world opinion about the USA. At least be honest about that.

The Anholt-GfK Roper Nation Brands Index (NBI) survey on which countries are most admired and appreciated around the world has been conducted annually since 2005. This year the US topped the list for the first time, climbing six spots.

According to survey designer Simon Anholt President Obama, whatever his trials at home, has been well-received internationally since his election and changed the image of the US from one that dictates to one that consults. “What’s really remarkable is that in all my years studying national reputation, I have never seen any country experience such a dramatic change in its standing as we see for the United States in 2009,” Mr. Anholt said in a press release on the survey. “The results suggest that the new US administration has been well received abroad and the American electorate’s decision to vote in President Obama has given the United States the status of the world’s most admired country.”

http://features.csmonitor.com/globalnews/2009/10/06/new-poll-finds-obama-has-already-rebuilt-americas-global-brand/

[Baculus]

LOL, you're hilarious. Surely you're joking, this reply itself proves my point.

Huh? No, I think you proved my point, minus the emotes.

[nonniey]

I do not remember where he humbled himself in front of despots and dictators. When did this happen?......?

Haven't you been watching the news for the past 8 months? You need read some more and learn about foreign policy. LOL

[Baculus]

Haven't you been watching the news for the past 8 months? You need read some more and learn about foreign policy. LOL

That does not qualify as an example. Yes, what people call the "Apology Tour" is not an example.

SPECIFICS.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

If it hasn't already been posted...from Time:

Obama's Nobel: The Last Thing He Needs

The last thing Barack Obama needed at this moment in his presidency and our politics is a prize for a promise.

...The Nobel committee cited "his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples." His critics fault some of those efforts: those who favor a missile shield for Poland or a troop surge in Afghanistan or a harder line on Iran. But even his fans know that none of the dreams have yet come true, and a prize for even dreaming them can feed the illusion that they have.

At this moment many Americans are longing for a president who is more bully, less pulpit. The president who leased his immense inaugural good will to the hungry appropriators writing the stimulus bill, who has not stopped negotiating health care reform except to say what is non-negotiable, whose solicitude for the wheelers and dealers who drove the financial system into a ditch leaves the rest of us wondering who has our back, has always shown great promise, said the right things, affirmed every time he opens his mouth that he understands the fears we face and the hopes we hold...There comes a time when a President needs to take a real risk - and putting his prestige on the line to win the Olympics for his home town does not remotely count.

Compare this to Greg Mortenson, nominated for the prize by some members of Congress, who the bookies gave 20-to-1 odds of winning. Son of a missionary, a former army Medic and mountaineer, he has made it his mission to build schools for girls in places where opium dealers and tribal warlords kill people for trying. His Central Asia Institute has built more than 130 schools in Afghanistan and Pakistan - a mission which has, along the way, inspired millions of people to view the protection and education of girls as a key to peace and prosperity and progress.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20091009/us_time/08599192939500

[Baculus]

I didn't put words in your mouth. I simply laughed at your words. I'm not trying to debate with you. I'm simply having a good time reading your posts.

Of course you are not debating with me, because you have nothing to add to the debate. That is why you are "laughing." My fifteen old nephew could have given me the same response as well.

Good going -- you have reduced yourself to "nyah, nyah" replies.

[nonniey]

That does not qualify as an example. Yes, what people call the "Apology Tour" is not an example.

SPECIFICS.

Man you just don't know when people are having fun with you and you are consistantly setting yourself up. You don't recognize your own response to an earlier post asking what Obama has done to deserve the Nobel Peace Prize?

[Baculus]

They don't seem to think so. Seriously, the rest of the world is very happy with Obama.

Again, I'm not saying that he deserves this prize, but he has made a huge difference in world opinion about the USA. At least be honest about that.

http://features.csmonitor.com/globalnews/2009/10/06/new-poll-finds-obama-has-already-rebuilt-americas-global-brand/

Honesty is not the strength of some folks today. Word play and giving the raspberry is pretty much it.

[DixieFlatline]

Gandhi was not awarded the prize becaues he was dead. But hey, red herrings are really useful, aren't they?

What?

Gandhi was nominated 5 times. 1937, 1938, 1939, 1947, and 1948

Link

[cjcdaman]

Of course you are not debating with me, because you have nothing to add to the debate. That is why you are "laughing." My fifteen old nephew could have given me the same response as well.

Good going -- you have reduced yourself to "nyah, nyah" replies.

:rotflmao:

[Baculus]

Man you just don't know when people are having fun with you and you are consistantly setting yourself up. You don't recognize your own response to an earlier post asking what Obama has done to deserve the Nobel Peace Prize?

This makes no sense -- come again?

Having fun with me? By lying about what I said? LOL. That isn't having "fun with me" -- that is just being trollish. I know when I joke around with people: I am not a newbie to this board, my friend.

[ljs]

I just told my gf about this, she thinks I'm playing a joke on her....haha. I told her I was serious, but she still doesn't beleive me.