zoony Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 If bears were dying of hunger, it would be hard not to. Helping someone in need is COMPLETELY different from enabling and encouraging bad (or illegal) behavior. I wish that this thread wasn't confusing the two. And the fact that someone brought Jesus into the argument is really scraping the bottom of the intellectual barrel. (cute bear though! Just think, it will eat you given the chance ) ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Zoony, they cannot see it simply encourages more people crossing and dying.as well as the friggin caste society of illegals here that leads to them being taken advantage of in numerous ways Not providing water in advance is not the same as denying water. If those that oppose encouraging the risks are morally liable for inaction ,then how much more so are those that encourage risky ,illegal behavior by their actions? Add on all the abuse ,crime,murder and suffering that results to your tab as well if we are keeping score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjTj Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Helping someone in need is COMPLETELY different from enabling and encouraging bad (or illegal) behavior.I wish that this thread wasn't confusing the two. And the fact that someone brought Jesus into the argument is really scraping the bottom of the intellectual barrel. Well, the line is pretty fuzzy... sjinhan giving a lone guy in the desert a sandwich sounds like helping someone in need. Leaving bottled water in the desert with labels saying "buena suerte" is more like encouraging illegal behavior. But it's not really at the level of handing out maps or actually leading people through the desert.And of course, this guy didn't get prosecuted for helping illegals; he was convicted of littering. It's fuzzy ... like a bear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Are you suggesting that people considering an illegal entry across the desert plan ahead to use the water stations set up by this guy along the way? Is he encouraging illegal behavior, or providing a life-saving resource for those who find themselves lost in the desert and out of water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted August 14, 2009 Author Share Posted August 14, 2009 Another Ironic fact for christain people in the thread.Were talking about Mt. Sinai in another thread... The mountain with those two tablet things... that then lead to the promise land after a while of walking about in a desert... Moses and his darned band of illegal Jews! "They are coming here to take all of our milk and honey!" I bet this is exactly what the people in Jericho said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted August 14, 2009 Author Share Posted August 14, 2009 we should go ahead and feed the bears, because they're gonna get in the dumpsters anyway Move the dumpsters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pwyl Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Are "being compassionate for people in need" and "not aiding and abetting a criminal in the pursuit of his crime" really mutually exclusive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Well WTF is wrong with you? Terrible analogy. A better analogy... leaving magnetic strips in retail stores to help shoplifters commit their crime better. ..... The bears analogy: In alaska they cover the trashcans WITH bars to hold the lids down. Not so the bears will starve, but to keep them out of town and help them also survive. They also trap them in a way to keep them from contact... letting them go back in their onw habitat.. You don't HELP someone commit a crime by giving them water when they are dying. If a prisoner is down on the ground you don't shoot them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 But, what I was responding to was the thought that leaving water is somehow encouraging them to cross. They were already travelling through there he just gave them water so they wouldn't die, it really sounds though as if some would be more comfortable if there was no water and the illegals died in the park. Ah, so it's OK to help someone commit a crime, as long as you don't aid them until after the crime begins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pwyl Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 You don't HELP someone commit a crime by giving them water when they are dying. If a prisoner is down on the ground you don't shoot them. You also don't bandage them up and let them go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted August 14, 2009 Author Share Posted August 14, 2009 Are "being compassionate for people in need" and "not aiding and abetting a criminal in the pursuit of his crime" really mutually exclusive? Sometimes our compassion trumps law. This will blow the minds of some but those who care more about people understand this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted August 14, 2009 Author Share Posted August 14, 2009 Ah, so it's OK to help someone commit a crime, as long as you don't aid them until after the crime begins? In my faith as a Christian Methodist, we are called to "do all the good we can" which does not allow for inaction. If someone is trying to cross the desert then you give them water because you care about that person, if they get arrested when they cross then so be it, but you don't leave them to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 And sometimes our compassion simply adds to the problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 I would have more compassion if there were not perfectly legal ways to come to this country without the risks involved by these people. Go through the proper channels if you want to come here. If you dont want to do that, I do not feel sorry for you. Now, I will point out that, AFAIK, unless you're a Doctor or an Engineer or some such, then no, there isn't any legal way for "these people" to come to this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted August 14, 2009 Author Share Posted August 14, 2009 And sometimes our compassion simply adds to the problems. I would gladly be convicted of the crime of compassion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pwyl Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 I would gladly be convicted of the crime of compassion. Wouldn't it be better to find a way to practice your compassion without breaking the law in the process? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuraitengai Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 How about leaving water for people so they don't die? I thought it was hilarious that they were concerned about bottles "strewn around the park" but they don't seem as concerned about bodies being "strewn around the park."I would gladly serve the time, serving the poor, and when my 300 hours were up, I'd do it all again. news flash, they are ILLEGALS. let me guess, you are the same one that wants to have the taxpayers shoulder costs to pay for benefits for them, right? and whats next...lets go out and drop some seaworthy boats and rafts between florida and cuba for all those refugees... i mean cant have people going thirsty while illegally entering our country from mexico, so cant have people drowning and stuff while floating over here from cuba... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Helping someone in need is COMPLETELY different from enabling and encouraging bad (or illegal) behavior.I wish that this thread wasn't confusing the two. And the fact that someone brought Jesus into the argument is really scraping the bottom of the intellectual barrel. trying to seperate the two is a bankrupt argument Zoony. People dying of thirst are people in need. They aren't busing them over the border or making fake papers for them... they are accepting reality that desperate people are dying of thirst out there. I brought Jesus into the debate because frankly this is a one of those heaven or hell situation for the people that cross paths with a dying desperate immigrant. The bible is clear and the bible offers no weak willed cop outs like... oh well not if their breaking the law, let them die in that case. You can hold grace or works as your path to heaven but on the test that jesus talk about on the mount it is very clear. Believe all you like but if you turn away from a person that crosses your path in desperate need you turn away from Christ and salvation. The goats and the sheep are not seperated by their faith but by their action. They are tested with great need and those that pass are those that respond with great compassion. There is a difference between laws, policy, and human need. We can debate laws and I'll be the first to debate immigration policy... but arguing that we should let the poor die in the desert is not something I'm prepared to debate. It's wrong. Those that take that stance are wrong. No grey area and I'm being diplomatic in the use of "wrong" because there are a host of other words that would be more fitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 news flash, they are ILLEGALS. News flash they are human beings!!! If you want to solve the illegal immigation problem, it can be done. This however is not the way. It solves nothing at all and makes no significant impact on the problem as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted August 14, 2009 Author Share Posted August 14, 2009 news flash, they are ILLEGALS. let me guess, you are the same one that wants to have the taxpayers shoulder costs to pay for benefits for them, right?and whats next...lets go out and drop some seaworthy boats and rafts between florida and cuba for all those refugees... i mean cant have people going thirsty while illegally entering our country from mexico, so cant have people drowning and stuff while floating over here from cuba... I guess you're right, if they are dying to get into America then why should we stop them. I just hope none of ya'll speed on your way to the emergency room, heaven forbid you break the law for humanitarian reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeysc23 Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 I would gladly be convicted of the crime of compassion. But in this instance there are ways to be compassionate without breaking the law or enabling illegals to enter the country. Why don't you do what's compassionate and right (calling the authorities) instead of trying to be holier than thou? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Now, I will admit . . . I'm doing some internal examination of my opinion, right now, because I thought of an analogy. Having trouble explaining why I'm not in favor of leaving water bottles in the desert for illegals (because making it safer will encourage people to break the law), but I support making condoms available, for free, to people below the age of 18. OTOH, a question for you folks who support this action: If he were leaving bus passes, fake IDs, and directions to where illegal employers are, would you still be in favor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted August 14, 2009 Author Share Posted August 14, 2009 News flash they are human beings!!! Nah, they stop being humans when they become poor Mexicans who are trying to provide for their families. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimmySmith Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 And the fact that someone brought Jesus into the argument is really scraping the bottom of the intellectual barrel.Actually in the WWJD arena. He would have littered to help the unfortunate, then he would done his time. I doubt he would have appealed the sentence. Then again, he did not have misleading CNN headlines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted August 14, 2009 Author Share Posted August 14, 2009 if he were leaving bus passes, fake ids, and directions to where illegal employers are, would you still be in favor? no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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