Destino Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Why is it the people so opposed to giving desperate people water can't go this energetic about reforming immigration laws to actually deal with the problem. How about instead of worrying about who is giving who water why not spend that energy getting the same means we use to stop CEO's from cooking the books (holding them PERSONALLY responsible) applied to hiring illegals. Want to stop the hiring of illegals? Throw the people that hire them in jail. No fine to the company or any of that nonsense. Hold the actual individuals responsible and jail them. Do that and you'll stop a lot more illegal immigration that you will stopping people from leaving water for desperate people. The solution to a flooded basement is not lashing out at the water. Do something about the cause and the water will stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Ok here is a question for those who do not think this was a crime. If a serial killer comes to your house looking for refuge from the law knowing he will get the death penalty for what he has done, does your compassion say to hide him because he will die otherwise? Or if you are a doctor and someone comes to your house in the middle of the night after committing a crime and running from the law with a broken leg, do you fix the leg and let him go? Illegals immigrants are now equated to serial killers and mob doctor's? Weak. I have no problem with calling the authorities and have never argued that you shouldn't. I'm just saying leaving water in areas where you no people are dying to hopefully save them from a horrible demise isn't wrong and shouldn't be illegal. The solution to illegal immigration is not found in this debate at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxBuddy21 Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Why is it the people so opposed to giving desperate people water can't go this energetic about reforming immigration laws to actually deal with the problem. How about instead of worrying about who is giving who water why not spend that energy getting the same means we use to stop CEO's from cooking the books (holding them PERSONALLY responsible) applied to hiring illegals.Want to stop the hiring of illegals? Throw the people that hire them in jail. No fine to the company or any of that nonsense. Hold the actual individuals responsible and jail them. Do that and you'll stop a lot more illegal immigration that you will stopping people from leaving water for desperate people. The solution to a flooded basement is not lashing out at the water. Do something about the cause and the water will stop. I agree with you 100% that these people should be prosecuted. Thats where the biggest crack down needs to come. That doesnt change my opinion on this situation though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxBuddy21 Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Illegals immigrants are now equated to serial killers and mob doctor's?Weak. I have no problem with calling the authorities and have never argued that you shouldn't. I'm just saying leaving water in areas where you no people are dying to hopefully save them from a horrible demise isn't wrong and shouldn't be illegal. The solution to illegal immigration is not found in this debate at all. The serial criminal comparison is because not helping them would mean a death sentence for that person just like not giving water very well could mean one for an illegal immigrant. The doctor example was knowingly helping someone that committed a crime. Yes you should morally help someone in need when confronted with them but you report the crime at the same time. I support the doctor fixing the broken leg but I would not support the doctor setting up health clinics for illegals. See the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted August 14, 2009 Author Share Posted August 14, 2009 Illegals immigrants are now equated to serial killers and mob doctor's?Weak. Ya-think! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pwyl Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Illegals immigrants are now equated to serial killers and mob doctor's?Weak. I have no problem with calling the authorities and have never argued that you shouldn't. I'm just saying leaving water in areas where you no people are dying to hopefully save them from a horrible demise isn't wrong and shouldn't be illegal. The solution to illegal immigration is not found in this debate at all. I think the point is that just leaving water is aiding and abetting. There's no way to call it in if you're just dumping water bottles in the desert. Maybe the guy should have left some 2-way radios set to border patrol frequencies so that the dying-of-thirst illegals could call for help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted August 14, 2009 Author Share Posted August 14, 2009 I, personally, recycle all of my dead bodies, so I would not know. I do know that if I litter, I risk getting a ticket, despite my higher morality. Then I can only assume that you would not complain about getting a speeding ticket if you broke the speed limit on the way to the emergency room either, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxBuddy21 Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Then I can only assume that you would not complain about getting a speeding ticket if you broke the speed limit on the way to the emergency room either, right? Big difference between speeding to get to the emergency room because there is an emergency and speeding to the doctors office for a checkup in case there is an emergency. If the guy here gave someone water who he found that was half head, I dont think anyone would be arguing. He left water in the middle of the desert in case a criminal came by and was thirsty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurrayH81 Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Okay, I read, and then re-read the OP article. It is clear that members of this group leave plastic water bottles where illegal immigrants have died previously. It is clear that leaving plastic water bottles, rather than being physically present to dispense water to those in need (which would leave them vulnerable to an aiding and abetting charge) is what is being done. It is also clear from the Park Ranger's perspective that their issue is the littering of plastic bottles. I believe they would be okay if water could be left in a form that was not littering and did not endanger the wildlife for which the park is dedicated. It would seem that the group could make the rangers happy by hanging out and giving thirsty people water/food/first aid. It would also then mean that unless they then reported the illegal immigrants to the authoriities, they would be held guilty for aiding and abetting criminal activity, and would know that they were wrongly doing so. I will openly state that if I came across a person in dire need of something like water, food, medical care, and I refused it based on their being a criminal (or likely criminal) rather than them being a human in need, that would be wrong. However, it is would be equally wrong to not call the authorities and advise them of the location of a known or likely criminal. It appears that this group of cowards want to help illegal immigrants, and are using the issue of providing to those in need as an essential christian value to be the cover. It's a good cover, and it's hard to argue with on a humanitarian basis. However, this group needs to either find a method of providing water without littering or just suck it up and provide direct personal aid and suffer the consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Aiding someone who is in the process of committing a crime is not the same thing as aiding someone in the commission of a crime. Even when the person's mere presence in that location is the crime? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Agreed, if there was no work then they wouldn't be coming, but since so many regularly employ illegals then they do come, and eagerly so, by any means they can find, and when people are in such a desperate situation they become a very vulnerable people, and indeed they find themselves truly on the margins. Ooh, look, another picturesque way of ignoring the fact that you're discussing criminals. Oooh, those poor, vulnerable marginalized, criminals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Ahh, but why was he charged with it in the first place? The prosecution was pushed because of those wanting to stop him from giving water to the people crossing the desert. from criminals crossing the desert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted August 14, 2009 Author Share Posted August 14, 2009 from criminals crossing the desert. Is that how you excuse yourself from recognizing that they are people and treating them as such? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 And as we all know, plastic bottles are worse for the environment then dead bodies. Death is a part of nature. Plastic bottles are pollution. (Sorry. Just had to point out how stupid it is to try to put words in somebody else's mouth, by agreeing with you.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted August 14, 2009 Author Share Posted August 14, 2009 He left water in the middle of the desert in case a criminal came by and was thirsty. You make it sound like they might have had a case of dry mouth or something instead of actually in the middle of the desert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Ok here is a question for those who do not think this was a crime. If a serial killer comes to your house looking for refuge from the law knowing he will get the death penalty for what he has done, does your compassion say to hide him because he will die otherwise? That's not a completely identical situation. A better one would be "if the serial killer comes to your house on his way to his next killing". See, in your situation, the serial killer who's asking for your compassion isn't killing anybody right that instant. Just wanted to clarify that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted August 14, 2009 Author Share Posted August 14, 2009 Death is a part of nature. Plastic bottles are pollution. (Sorry. Just had to point out how stupid it is to try to put words in somebody else's mouth, by agreeing with you.) So let the group put trash cans and recycle bins out with the bottled water, problem solved right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeysc23 Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 So let the group put trash cans and recycle bins out with the bottled water, problem solved right? Have the man sit out their with a bucket of water and then calling the authorities ... problem solved. They get their water and don't die and we get to keep the illegals out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endzone_dave Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 I applaud the guy leaving the water bottles. There are better ways of dealing with illegals then letting them (and their families) die of thirst. Having no compassion at all for someone just trying to have a better life is sad , IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 12th Commandment Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 If you put yourself in a life threatening situation for whatever reason (and yes crossing the desert to illegally enter a country with not enough water) is a life threatening situation .... why should people feel bad?How about going through the proper means to enter this country? Then you don't have to risk your life almost dieing in a desert. I could go into the myriad of (morally acceptable but still illegal) reasons they might do so, but why? To answer your question, why not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Having no compassion at all for someone just trying to have a better life is sad , IMO. You know, the word "criminal" is much easier to type than "someone just trying to have a better life". I suppose child molesters are "just trying to be happy", too. But that's not the way I refer to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted August 14, 2009 Author Share Posted August 14, 2009 You know, the word "criminal" is much easier to type than "someone just trying to have a better life". I suppose child molesters are "just trying to be happy", too. But that's not the way I refer to them. So now illegal immigration which is a misdemeanor is equal to child molestation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkleMotion Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 It's like that moron at the beach who always wants to feed the seagulls. He thinks he's doing a good deed, but what he's really doing is encouraging people getting crapped on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pwyl Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 So now illegal immigration which is a misdemeanor is equal to child molestation? :hysterical: Nice twist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 You know, the word "criminal" is much easier to type than "someone just trying to have a better life". But far less accurate not to mention irrelevant. Criminal or not... putting water out in areas where people are known to die for lack of it isn't wrong. Hell even the authorities would help these "criminals" survive. Everyone in this thread knows that the state of illegal immigation doesn't hinge on bottles of water in the desert. They aren't coming for the bottles. No one is helping them cross the border (if they get to the evil bottles they've already accomplished that). They are just saying that their status being what it may, they don't deserve to die out in the desert. Let them be deported. Change the laws to deny them employment. Build a giant fence that even king kong would struggle with. I'm all for stopping illegal immigration. Do you want to discuss how best to do that? Bump a thread. This thread is about bottles of water that can save the lives of individuals that could very possibly be children for all you know. Some of you seem to have a problem with that and because it's harder to type "I would rather let people die" than "people shouldn't support criminal behavior" we are going discussing illegal immigration as a whole. This is about individuals dying in the desert. Not immigration as a whole. The reason is because no matter how this issues goes, the status of the immigration problem in the US remains unchanged. BTW - weren't you the one that earlier said something like "I will admit they are humans... if"? They are humans. Doesn't matter what you are willing to admit it. The sky is blue, water is wet, and illegal immigrants are human beings. As such they are deserving of aid in times of need by those capable of providing it. Hospital ER's can't turn them away either (thank god)... and I'm sure that pisses some of you angels off as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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