elkabong82 Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 Again, Cutler did not pass for just 3 tds against Oak, KC, and SD combined. That is false. He passed for 4tds in 1 game against Oak. and threw 4 picks in his 2nd game against Oakland, you know, the one near the end of the season the Broncos needed to win to stay ahead of the Chargers. I think that guy only looked at those games though, instead of all 6, because TD and INT totals should be higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 In 1983, with John Riggins setting the then-NFL record for TDs scored in a season (and 30 Rushing Tds total, Joe Theismann had the following numbers: 276 of 459 for 60.1 CMP (that era is a little different so that's actually pretty good) 3714 yards 29 TDs and 11 INTs (oh no, INTs!!!) His YPA was 8.1 Here's the kicker for the people who idealize the past: he was sacked THIRTY FOUR TIMES. (percentage of 6.9) Jason was sacked at 7 percent and you can't tell me his release alone doesn't account for a few of those compared to Joey T. Proving yet again that you can face pressure (though I'm sure his running around led to a few sacks) and still deliver. It's nothing but excuse after excuse and why has Jason's YPA never been higher than 6.5? Todd Collins had the same team and was in the 8+ range. Jason was sacked at only a rate of 4.8% in 2007. Then Todd comes in and is sacked at a rate of 6.3% and thrives! And the team looks like it doesn't ABSOLUTELY NEED a brilliant second wideout who is 6-9 and runs 4.2. Odd isn't it? Why is it across disparate offensive systems, Jason's numbers look almost identical and the issues are still the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsn26 Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 and threw 4 picks in his 2nd game against Oakland, you know, the one near the end of the season the Broncos needed to win to stay ahead of the Chargers. I think that guy only looked at those games though, instead of all 6, because TD and INT totals should be higher. Yup and I totally agree with you. I was just responding to say those stats were cherry picked and not exactly true, hence why they were being 'overlooked' To say 'cutler only threw 3 tds against OAK, SD, and KC combined' is not true without further elaboration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1972FAN Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 Again, Cutler did not pass for just 3 tds against Oak, KC, and SD combined. That is false. He passed for 4tds in 1 game against Oak. Yeah really funny how they distort the facts so you'll be convince to be a homer for Campbell, how sad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 Yeah, why didn't JC perform like Theismann or Collins? I mean, Campbell had been in the league 3 seasons when he started in '08, Theismann had been in the league since 1971 when he had that performance in '83, and Collins had been in the same Saunders system for over a decade. I mean, a QB starting his 2nd full season should be able to do what guys in the league for a decade or more are doing right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolbeans Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 You mean the same guys who let that great franchise QB get away? And they value Orton? But hey, why argue any stats or make a valid case for your opinion when you can just be lazy and use speculation (us trying to trade JC to another team for picks hasn't been confirmed, us talking to the Broncos about Cutler has)? I'd consider the skins lucky to get a 4th for Quincy I mean Jason Campbell. That tells me the entire league, including the skins, sees Cutler as far superior to Campbell. Denver wanted Orton and Quinn before Campbell. Thats about all I need to know to form my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 Stats are pointless. Especially in this case since both teams finished 8-8. (Arguably, the Broncos might have finished 7-9 if a certain game had been called correctly. And we could be 10-6 or 11-5 had it been for a couple of different plays.) Plus there are in game situations, was Denver trailing in more games requiring more throws? How was their running game compared to the ours? Did it require them to throw more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veteranskinsfan Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 Campbell supporters in the Cutler debate need to look at how many touchdowns Campbell threw last season in the fourth quarter and then go see how many touchdowns Cutler threw in the fourth quarter for the year. Most of us would like to see Campbell have a banner year this season but he has to perform on the field under pressure. The two rookie quarterbacks for Baltimore and Atlanta really showed NFL fans that some quarterbacks do not need five years before they can lead their teams into the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 Unfortunately, as a Campbell backer, I feel like this pro/anti Campbell talk has us drawing lines in the sand. It seems like whatever anybody's willing to say thats "pro" Campbell, the pros cheer and the anti's screan. ANd if the anti's say something against Campbell, the pro's scream and the anit's scream. It really seems like reality means even less on Extremeskins now than ever before. There it is. Great point... however, I want you to answer this honestly. Do you think the anti-Campbell crowd is louder or the pro-Campbell crowd is louder? I honestly feel that the majority of the pro-Campbell crowd simply want to see what he can do this year, believe he can become an elite QB, yet are willing to accept that it simply may not happen. It's more about belief in his abilities than excessive glorification. I feel like the vast majority of the pro-Campbell crowd certainly accept he needs to play better, and that he's not elite yet. At least that's what I see from most of those who support Campbell when debating the anti-Campbell crowd. Whereas when you look at the majority of the anti-Campbell crowd they're excessive in their negativity towards Campbell, and speak as if there is absolutely no hope that he will ever amount to anything. They have absolutely no belief in his abilities, and push aside any of the numerous positives Campbell has shown thus far. For example, when bubba posts those stats that actually show Campbell had redzone numbers that could hold his own and in some cases were better when compared to Cutler, it's ignored completely and glossed over. So, back to the question... who do you think is more excessive, or "louder" in their speech? Who is further from reality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 and Collins had been in the same Saunders system for over a decade. I mean, a QB starting his 2nd full season should be able to do what guys in the league for a decade or more are doing right? Either you're good or you're not. And if you're AWFUL while other people face similar situations and they are all-time great (even Collins YPA and OFF player of the month and 4-0 record is pretty historical) then maybe the problem is YOU. But hey, why let the fact that Todd Collins hadn't played in a decade interfere with these brilliant analyses?! he got practice time! (though not that much since backups don't get THAT many reps) If you're a first round 'franchise QB' you shouldn't need to look so bad compared to people who faced your situations. At some point you actually look like a competent QB on your own. I think Jason can develop still but it's going to take more time than we can afford to give him with the likes of Portis and Moss approaching the end of their shelf-life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 Cutler threw in the fourth quarter for the year you mean when the broncos were behind? Cutler scored a lot in garbage time not listed when behind by more than 16 points, 2 td 3 ints. 5 sacks opposed to the Redskins who were leading or in close scoring games every week, many times running out the clock in the 4th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 There it is. Great point... however, I want you to answer this honestly. Do you think the anti-Campbell crowd is louder or the pro-Campbell crowd is louder? I honestly feel that the majority of the pro-Campbell crowd simply want to see what he can do this year, believe he can become an elite QB, yet are willing to accept that it simply may not happen. It's more about belief in his abilities than excessive glorification. I feel like the vast majority of the pro-Campbell crowd certainly accept he needs to play better, and that he's not elite yet. At least that's what I see from most of those who support Campbell when debating the anti-Campbell crowd. Whereas when you look at the majority of the anti-Campbell crowd they're excessive in their negativity towards Campbell, and speak as if there is absolutely no hope that he will ever amount to anything. They have absolutely no belief in his abilities, and push aside any of the numerous positives Campbell has shown thus far. For example, when bubba posts those stats that actually show Campbell had redzone numbers that could hold his own and in some cases were better when compared to Cutler, it's ignored completely and glossed over. So, back to the question... who do you think is more excessive, or "louder" in their speech? Who is further from reality? I honestly stopped reading through the threads, so I can't know who's more excessive. Both are reaching new extremes though. I saw the Campbell is Montana thread, there is the Theisman stuff, there's all the "I want Campbell as our starting QB because he can answer questions", etc. Its reaching points I cant or just am tired of defending. The anti crowd is bad too, with the "nobody wants Campbell", "Snyder doesn't like him", "he's a crybaby if he needs fan support", etc. I expect certain things from Shilsu, GHH, McD5, etc, but its really taxing to get into these arguments that are even more extreme than what they normally bring up. If somebody doesn't feel that he's the right guy - there's nothing we can do to convince them until Campbell actually plays well next year. Hopefully they'll change their minds. If not, then welcome to being a QB in DC. I'm really just ready for this season to start. I pray that Snyder doesn't destroy the team before then...or maybe if he destroys the team, I won't be forced to root for Snyder to succeed...hmm....interesting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbws Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 And how many INTs did Jason throw in these games? How many turnovers were there on offense? How many TD's did we score on the ground in these games? How many sacks did the line allow in these games? How did the defense play in these games? How did the WRs play in these games?You can't put a TEAM game solely on one player. 49ers while not a great team did become a better team after Singletary took over in the 2nd half of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Section123OnSundays Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 thanks for those projected stats and "what ifs". But there are exactly that, projections and "what ifs". You people obsessed with numbers know NOTHING about the game of football. For those of us who do know the game can clearly see Campbell will always be average. You can throw all the numbers, projections, and calculus formulas you want at me but it doesn't matter. Campbell just isn't the next Williams like Gibbs thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbws Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 What? :hysterical:4-1 record (should have been 5-0 if not for a freak play, and Torrence allowing a desperation throw after JC lead a go ahead score), two 300 yard games, four 200 yard+ games, 4 td 0 Int, all over 60% comp., 2 100+QB rating, 4 90+ QB rating (88.7 was his lowest QB rating) Also in each game we rushed a lot and controlled the clock, (except Cleveland).. which was our offensive game plan... run, short passes, control the ball, let our defense hold them. NO 34:14 TOP, 31 rushes/36 passes STL 31:00 TOP, 31 rushes/26 passes Clev 28:52 TOP, 36 rushes/23 passes DET 35:45 TOP, 33 rushes/28 passes SEA 38:27 TOP, 41 rushes/33 passes How dare you factor in the running part of the game when it doesn't support the argument that JC is no good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawaiianTime Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 Cutler scored a lot in garbage timeopposed to the Redskins who were leading or in close scoring games every week, many times running out the clock in the 4th Since you like stats, can you show us when Campbell did most of his scoring? Not to include Portis running the ball please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt Rich Fla Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Campbell yayers, chew on Leftwich. pfft:hysterical: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santana_89 Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Campbell yayers, chew on Leftwich. pfft:hysterical: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: Ouch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Since you like stats, can you show us when Campbell did most of his scoring? Not to include Portis running the ball please. look it up http://www.nfl.com/players/jasoncampbell/profile?id=CAM375235 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsenic Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 I have gray hair from watching Campbell hold the ball way too long. The majority of his sacks are his own fault. As for your "IF THEN" statement: Its painfully obvious that JC doesn't hit his recievers in stride. Zorn knows QB's. If our Head Coach thought JC17 was going to be the next Steve Young, none of this "searching" would be taking place. NO ONE is sold on Jason Campbell and theres good reason not to be. Its hard not to like his professionalism but the guy just doesn't have "it". Our rookie (CB) showed him up in pre-season, imo, playing with scrubs. I'll happily eat crow. I'd love to see him have a great 2009. However, even then, I'd be hesitant to believe he's able to repeat that performance, based on his past production (or lack thereof). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackest Eyes Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 I have gray hair from watching Campbell hold the ball way too long.The majority of his sacks are his own fault. As for your "IF THEN" statement: Its painfully obvious that JC doesn't hit his recievers in stride. Zorn knows QB's. If our Head Coach thought JC17 was going to be the next Steve Young, none of this "searching" would be taking place. NO ONE is sold on Jason Campbell and theres good reason not to be. Its hard not to like his professionalism but the guy just doesn't have "it". Our rookie (CB) showed him up in pre-season, imo, playing with scrubs. I'll happily eat crow. I'd love to see him have a great 2009. However, even then, I'd be hesitant to believe he's able to repeat that performance, based on his past production (or lack thereof). You also have to remember who our FO consists of. If it was any other owner/GM thingy I don't know if we would have been searching for a new QB. I think Dan & Vinny sometimes do things regardless of what the coach wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fnkdctr(007) Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Be happy we don"t bring Jeff George in he wants to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowledge316 Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 i'm guessing the JC backers are happy with the 14 points a game...when a offense is that terrible, you have to look at the QB...you can't expect to change the other 10 players around to fix the one player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thirtyfive2seven Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Also, Campbell wasn't the reason we didn't play up to our potential in those games. His stats in the games you mention: TDs: 4 INTS: 0 AVG QB RT: 98.4 AVG Comp %: 66.5 I don't know how you judge QB's, but in my book those are pretty good stats. I couldn't resist. Here's another stat for you. 2-3 record against said teams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thirtyfive2seven Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 you mean when the broncos were behind?Cutler scored a lot in garbage time not listed when behind by more than 16 points, 2 td 3 ints. 5 sacks opposed to the Redskins who were leading or in close scoring games every week, many times running out the clock in the 4th Can you post the same stats of Campbell in garbage time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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