Campbell Nay-Sayers chew on this????(Merged)

[littleskins]

That quote is what I been preaching to anyone who would listen and many who wouldn't.

[Thinking Skins]

I'm not becoming a Campbell hater, but I'm not focusing too much on the first or second half of the season. They're like polar extremes. I'd much rather talk about what Campbell talked about the other day - it was his first year in the system and so he didn't have command of the playbook and so he couldn't get all bossy about the routes and who's doing what right and such.

What I'm expecting from him is that no matter how much of the playbook Zorn expects him to have memorized, he should have it all down by now and so we should be able to start seeing some real convincing results.

[Blackest Eyes]

Another LAME excuse for defending JC's pitiful numbers. Let's all hold hands and defend our 13 td throwing qb.:doh: Do you want to know just how wrong you are. Take a look at the games against some of the worst D's in the league that JC played against last year. Cleveland,Detroit,St.Louis, Bungles and 49ers. Guess how many tds boy wonder had in all these games COMBINED?!

4 Touchdowns!

Are you sure his numbers would have looked better? All of this spinning is making me dizzy.

And how many INTs did Jason throw in these games? How many turnovers were there on offense? How many TD's did we score on the ground in these games? How many sacks did the line allow in these games? How did the defense play in these games? How did the WRs play in these games?

You can't put a TEAM game solely on one player.

[littleskins]

Everyone can talk to they're blue in the face about what happened, me included, but this is his last shot. No excuses, no matter how real or relevant they are. He has to win if he has any shot at staying a redskin.

[da#1skinsfan]

Everyone can talk to they're blue in the face about what happened, me included, but this is his last shot. No excuses, no matter how real or relevant they are. He has to win if he has any shot at staying a redskin.

everyone agrees there too.

its the people who have been calling for his head that we dont understand.

the guy is in a contract year. he has one more to show hes a bigtime nfl qb. if he fails, we move on. if he succeeds, we feel a lot better about 2010 and certainly about 2009 while he flourishes.

this is the position we're in, and it is THE best position possible especially considering Colt's promising (but vague) action last preseason.

[1972FAN]

THANK YOU!

STFU for all that wanted Cutler... he is just a whiny crying biatch...:hysterical:

And your an adult? thank goodness we have a intelligent post of reasoning. lol

[skinsnut18231977]

I think the biggest beef with the whiners is that Cambell does not throw a ton of INTs. But when you have a running game, you do not necessarily need to throw TD's. Sure it is awesome, but when your running game is your primary offense, how the hell can you expect the QB to throw a ton of TD's?

It didn't help that Jason got sacked so much last year. The sacks can be attributed to many things but the most glaring issues were the fact that Moss was usually always double teamed and the other WR's could not manage to get open. And then the line was horrible with pass blocking. Now, if the WR's could get open, the line wouldn't have to block as long and then Jason wouldn't have to hold on to the ball so long and deal with guys trying to rip his head off.

Yes, the QB is always the most scrutinized, but look at the larger folks. Football is a team sport and if one guy does not do his job, how can the other guy do his job? Imagine if the line sucked at run blocking. Would you all be saying that Portis sucks? Most likely. Yes, good players make good plays when it counts but I would like to see Peyton Manning or Tom Brady come and make some passes in Jason's situation. I think the results would be similar to Jason's.

Fact is, Jason has 1 year left on his contract and the guy is working his ass off. He deserves this year to prove that he is worth a new contract. If he fails, then we continue our search. If he succeeds, I hope he continues to improve and take us to a Super Bowl. We could be a lot worse off. We could have Tarvaris Jackson. :doh:

Well put...as i stated in the beginning this 'who's better' stuff is rediculous...i understand the trade talk is over and im probably gonna get my wish of seeing Campbell play another season but again why are we as skins' fans so fanatical over change..???

Hail!!!

[Box76]

And how many INTs did Jason throw in these games? How many turnovers were there on offense? How many TD's did we score on the ground in these games? How many sacks did the line allow in these games? How did the defense play in these games? How did the WRs play in these games?

You can't put a TEAM game solely on one player.

I think you might want to re-read the post I was responding to. I destroyed the premise that Cutler's stats were inflated due to the level of competition he was facing. When Campbell faced similiar oppenents he floundered.

Cutler had a terrible D, a great wr on one side(with constant double teams) and a rookie on the other. He had a soup line at rb all year yet he destroyed weak teams. I would expect JC, who had more support to put up equal or better numbers, regardless.

No matter how you try, you nor anyone else can defend 13tds in 16 games started.

[Peregrine]

Wow, good post Bubba. Those are honestly some pretty said stats by Cutler in the redzone, but I guess it goes to show you that Denver scored a lot from big plays outside of it, so that made him look better. I think hes a fine QB and all, but I do think people give him too much credit.

As for the OP, your stats are off. I had done the math earlier and if JC attempts as many passes as Cutler he actually ends up with 3950 yards, 16 TDs and 7 INTs. YPA is the "yards per attempt" not "yards per completion", so you dont have to factor completion percentage in at all.

[MumboSauce]

when it comes to one test, Cutler scores a much higher grade then Campbell and that's the "eyeball" test.

Case in point? Through all this trade talk and all of the highlights been shown on NFL Network and ESPN you see Cutler throwing darts in the redzone for TD's. Then there's Campbell between the 20's, stalling, again.

All of us want Campbell to succeed, but many of us don't see it happening.

Echos how I feel, want him to elevate and reach that next level but not much makes me feel he will. Here's to hoping!

[Peregrine]

Another LAME excuse for defending JC's pitiful numbers. Let's all hold hands and defend our 13 td throwing qb.:doh: Do you want to know just how wrong you are. Take a look at the games against some of the worst D's in the league that JC played against last year. Cleveland,Detroit,St.Louis, Bungles and 49ers. Guess how many tds boy wonder had in all these games COMBINED?!

4 Touchdowns!

Are you sure his numbers would have looked better? All of this spinning is making me dizzy.

Another LAME excuse for bashing JC. Lets look at games Cutler played against some other bad defenses, San Diego, Buffalo, KC, Oakland, and Atlanta. Guess how many TDs boy wonder Cutler had in all these games COMBINED?!

3 Touchdowns!

Oh, and 6 interceptions.

I can now see where your dizziness comes in.

[HBnotBlades]

Another LAME excuse for defending JC's pitiful numbers. Let's all hold hands and defend our 13 td throwing qb.:doh: Do you want to know just how wrong you are. Take a look at the games against some of the worst D's in the league that JC played against last year. Cleveland,Detroit,St.Louis, Bungles and 49ers. Guess how many tds boy wonder had in all these games COMBINED?!

4 Touchdowns!

Are you sure his numbers would have looked better? All of this spinning is making me dizzy.

Jezzy Crezzy...

I think you might want to re-read the post I was responding to. I destroyed the premise that Cutler's stats were inflated due to the level of competition he was facing. .

Holy lack of logic batman!

Saying that Campbell didn't throw many touchdowns against some of the lower rung teams on our schedule in no way proves that Cutler's stats weren't inflated by playing a significant portion of his schedule against the worst defenses in the league. Those two things have nothing to do with each other. Nothing at all. Not only did you not "destroy" the premise, you didn't even present a rational argument against it.

Also, Campbell wasn't the reason we didn't play up to our potential in those games. His stats in the games you mention:

TDs: 4

INTS: 0

AVG QB RT: 98.4

AVG Comp %: 66.5

I don't know how you judge QB's, but in my book those are pretty good stats.

[rdskns n 05]

The one thing that no one seems to think about is the division we play in........... No doubt the toughest in the NFL. I think the numbers could be manipulated in any way. Look, the bottom line Skins tried to get Cutler; it didn't happened, Campbell has handled it like a pro. Would I like to see him have more desire? Hell YES.... Let's hope he will be more comfortable this year and he turns into the QB we ALL have waited for.

[ExoDus84]

Cutler player 8 games (yes, half the schedule) against teams in the bottom 8 defensively last year and the highest ranked defensive team he played was Tampa Bay at #9.

Campbell on the other hand played 8 games against the top 8 defenses in the league and 6 games against the top 4 (not including the skins D).

If you take those games Campbell played against the steelers, ravens, giants, etc. and substitute in multiple games against the Raiders, Chiefs and Chargers (surprisingly ranked #25 defensively last year) I'm sure his stats would look much more comparable to Cutlers.

Yep. Cutler took advantage of weak defenses. Lets see how badly Campbell torched the weak defenses he played last season.

1) Rams: 28th Ranked defense

a) Campbell: 18/26, 208 yards, 0 TD 0 INT

2) Browns: 26th Ranked Defense

a) Campbell: 14/23, 164 yards, 1 TD 0 INT

3) Seattle: 30th Ranked Defense

a) CampbelL: 20/33, 206 yards, 1 TD 0 INT

4) Detroit: 32nd ranked, last in NFL

a) Campbell: 23/28, 328 yards, 1 TD 0 INT

5) New Orleans: 23rd ranked

a) Campbell: 24/36, 321 yards, 1 TD 0 INT

So, he didnt exactly light up the weak defenses he played. His only 300 yard games came against detroit and new orleans, but he still could only muster 1 TD pass against those wretched defenses, and failed to throw one against the woeful rams. I'm glad he didnt throw any INT's versus those powerhouses, but it should not have been hard to throw for at least 2 TD's against teams like detroit and seattle.

[ExoDus84]

Jezzy Crezzy...

Holy lack of logic batman!

Saying that Campbell didn't throw many touchdowns against some of the lower rung teams on our schedule in no way proves that Cutler's stats weren't inflated by playing a significant portion of his schedule against the worst defenses in the league. Those two things have nothing to do with each other. Nothing at all. Not only did you not "destroy" the premise, you didn't even present a rational argument against it.

Also, Campbell wasn't the reason we didn't play up to our potential in those games. His stats in the games you mention:

TDs: 4

INTS: 0

AVG QB RT: 98.4

AVG Comp %: 66.5

I don't know how you judge QB's, but in my book those are pretty good stats.

An average of 1 TD per game versus some of the worst defenses in the league, and you consider that pretty good?

Man, how low our level of expectations have fallen over the years. :doh:

[CRobi21]

Another LAME excuse for bashing JC. Lets look at games Cutler played against some other bad defenses, San Diego, Buffalo, KC, Oakland, and Atlanta. Guess how many TDs boy wonder Cutler had in all these games COMBINED?!

3 Touchdowns!

Oh, and 6 interceptions.

I can now see where your dizziness comes in.

Funny how people how people have conveniently ignored this post.

[ExoDus84]

Campbell Supporters, chew on this!!

You can break down JC's season into 2 parts. I'm not talking about the 6-2, and then the 2-6. I'm talking about the first 4 weeks, and the last 12 weeks. Lets take a gander.

**First 4 weeks**

He was playing pretty well. He didnt play well versus the giants, but that's to be expected on opening day. His record during this span was 3-1, and he had thrown for 6 TD's and 0 INT's in these first 4 games. Extrapolating his TD numbers, he'd have thrown for 24 TD's over a 16 game schedule. Not bad.

**Last 12 weeks**

This is really where his season started to unravel. Not at 6-2, but at 3-1. As it turns out campbell threw almost 50% of his entire seasons TD passes in the first 4 games. Here are his stats the last 12 weeks:

Record: 5-7

TD's: 7

INT's: 6

YPG: 197.25

So, he averaged 1 TD every 1.7 games over the final 12 weeks, and had a losing record over the majority of the season. I'm not sure why things started to fall apart. A combination of opposing defenses getting film on zorn and knowning how to stop him, and the lack of proper adjustments and some strange playcalling contributed. But, as evidenced by how our offense played over the final 12 weeks, poor quarterback play was obviously a part of it.

[bubba9497]

Yep. Cutler took advantage of weak defenses. Lets see how badly Campbell torched the weak defenses he played last season.

1) Rams: 28th Ranked defense

a) Campbell: 18/26, 208 yards, 0 TD 0 INT

2) Browns: 26th Ranked Defense

a) Campbell: 14/23, 164 yards, 1 TD 0 INT

3) Seattle: 30th Ranked Defense

a) CampbelL: 20/33, 206 yards, 1 TD 0 INT

4) Detroit: 32nd ranked, last in NFL

a) Campbell: 23/28, 328 yards, 1 TD 0 INT

5) New Orleans: 23rd ranked

a) Campbell: 24/36, 321 yards, 1 TD 0 INT

So, he didnt exactly light up the weak defenses he played. His only 300 yard games came against detroit and new orleans, but he still could only muster 1 TD pass against those wretched defenses, and failed to throw one against the woeful rams. I'm glad he didnt throw any INT's versus those powerhouses, but it should not have been hard to throw for at least 2 TD's against teams like detroit and seattle.

What? :hysterical:

4-1 record (should have been 5-0 if not for a freak play, and Torrence allowing a desperation throw after JC lead a go ahead score),

two 300 yard games, four 200 yard+ games,

4 td 0 Int,

all over 60% comp.,

2 100+QB rating, 4 90+ QB rating (88.7 was his lowest QB rating)

Also in each game we rushed a lot and controlled the clock, (except Cleveland).. which was our offensive game plan... run, short passes, control the ball, let our defense hold them.

NO 34:14 TOP, 31 rushes/36 passes

STL 31:00 TOP, 31 rushes/26 passes

Clev 28:52 TOP, 36 rushes/23 passes

DET 35:45 TOP, 33 rushes/28 passes

SEA 38:27 TOP, 41 rushes/33 passes

[Forehead]

Another LAME excuse for bashing JC. Lets look at games Cutler played against some other bad defenses, San Diego, Buffalo, KC, Oakland, and Atlanta. Guess how many TDs boy wonder Cutler had in all these games COMBINED?!

3 Touchdowns!

Oh, and 6 interceptions.

I can now see where your dizziness comes in.

This one needs to be quoted again. The Campbell bashers are ignoring it.

I'm a firm Campbell supporter, and I'll be very interested to see how this year goes. He's working hard, working out with the team, etc., etc. Whether you're pro-Campbell or anti-Campbell, he is going to be out QB this season barring injury, and I hope everyone on this board is actually going to root for him to succeed, rather than hoping he fails just so they can say they were right.

[ExoDus84]

What? :hysterical:

4-1 record (should have been 5-0 if not for a freak play, and Torrence allowing a desperation throw after JC lead a go ahead score),

two 300 yard games, four 200 yard+ games,

4 td 0 Int,

all over 60% comp.,

2 100+QB rating, 4 90+ QB rating (88.7 was his lowest QB rating)

Also in each game we rushed a lot and controlled the clock, (etc Cleveland).. which was our offensive game plan... run, short passes, control the ball, let our defense hold them.

NO 34:14 TOP, 31 rushes/36 passes

STL 31:00 TOP, 31 rushes/26 passes

Clev 28:52 TOP, 36 rushes/23 passes

DET 35:45 TOP, 33 rushes/28 passes

SEA 38:27 TOP, 41 rushes/33 passes

I'm glad QB rating is so important. Rex grossman has had some incredible games QB rating wise...maybe we should sign him? In all those games, we managed to scrape by with a win. We were run heavy, but campbell still was averaging 30 passing attempts per game. Furthermore, portis was very effective in those games, which should have made it quite a bit easier to get the passing game going. He still didnt light it up against those teams, and we didnt blow any of them out; 5 point win vs. Saints; 2 points loss to the rams; 3 point win against the browns; 3 point win against the saints. Our defense played well in all those games, so I really cant understand if Campbell was such a force, and portis was running wild, why this **** offense still could barely beat those terrible teams?

[skinsn26]

Another LAME excuse for bashing JC. Lets look at games Cutler played against some other bad defenses, San Diego, Buffalo, KC, Oakland, and Atlanta. Guess how many TDs boy wonder Cutler had in all these games COMBINED?!

3 Touchdowns!

Oh, and 6 interceptions.

I can now see where your dizziness comes in.

Cherry picking here, no doubt about it.

You include the 27th ranked D (Oakland) and the 24th ranked (Atlanta), but you leave out the 26th ranked D (Cleveland)??

Why? Because both cutler and Jason played this team?

Cutler: 447 Yards, 3 Tds 1 Int

Campbell: 164 yards 1 Td 0 Int

Ps. Your stat is just simply false.

Sept 8 vs Oakland: Cutler 2 tds

Dec 7 vs KC: Cutler 2 tds

2+2 = 4.....and i dont gotta add in any other games

Or how about:

Sept 14....4 Tds vs SD

[skinsn26]

This one needs to be quoted again. The Campbell bashers are ignoring it.

I'm a firm Campbell supporter, and I'll be very interested to see how this year goes. He's working hard, working out with the team, etc., etc. Whether you're pro-Campbell or anti-Campbell, he is going to be out QB this season barring injury, and I hope everyone on this board is actually going to root for him to succeed, rather than hoping he fails just so they can say they were right.

The stat is being overlooked because it is false.

I could say in 1 game vs SD, 1 vs Oak, and 1 vs KC, cutler passed for 8 TDs.....its a cherry picked stat

[skinsn26]

Funny how people how people have conveniently ignored this post.

Again, Cutler did not pass for just 3 tds against Oak, KC, and SD combined. That is false. He passed for 4tds in 1 game against Oak.

[coolbeans]

I apologize if this is long winded....

Here we go...

Campbell threw 110 less passes than Cutler. Of that Cutler threw for 4,526 yards in '08 compared to 3,245 for Campbell. If you project that out at Campbells' average yards per pass of 6.41 it would of been 3,681 for the extra 110 pass attempts at his 62.3 completion rate(roughly).

Now less we forget that our offensive systems relies upon short 5 to 10 yard completions with an average recieving corp.

Now if you extend everything else out it would mean that Campbell would have an additional 3 td's and NO interceptions out of 616 pass attempts....not amazing but not bad either in a first year led offense.

Now add together the weaker AFC versus the stronger NFC(not to mentions the EAST..) sounds solid to me?? Also add the fact that Cutler has been in the same system for a couple of seasons longer too.

In my opinion does this sound like someone whom we should be throwing the towel in on??? Remember it took several seasons for Eli to come into his own. Why are we as Skins' fans so hell-bent on turnover??? Colt B.? Cutler? When does it end...come on guys and gals!!

I've been a Skins' fan since I was 10 years old(32 now) and I live in New York and even I can see this.

Snyder and Cerreto have an obligation as mis-guided as it may be to keep the team profitable and winning. Coming from there prospective I can see why they would try the smoke and mirrors to acquire Cutler. It doesn't make it right or even the ethically correct way to say to Campbell..."We like you but we think we have a better chance with him"...but it is the business. Snyder will not change ...he will continue to make a big splash as with Jerry Jones its who they are. I'm glad I'm not a fan of a small market team though...lol. All I'm saying is as many mediorce and fustrating seasons we've had I can see why the front-office would pull the trigger on this.

But as a Skins' fan from 360 miles away I can see giving Campbell a chance to succeed is in our best interest.

Oh and one other thing for you Nay-Sayers out there...

Cutler was sacked 11 times last season....any takers on how many times Campbell was sacked??????

38 FREAKIN times!!!...come on does anyone see what platform Campbell would have been on is you throw 27 less sacks into the afe-forementioned stats??? My opinion it would have blown them out of the water!!!

Any thoughs??

Hail!!!:logo:

I have some thoughts. One guy was traded for two 1sts, a 3rd, and a starting caliber QB, the other couldn't be given away for a measly 2nd round pick. Now I'll let you figure out which one is better and by how much in the eyes of the guys who do it for a living.

[elkabong82]

I have some thoughts. One guy was traded for two 1sts, a 3rd, and a starting caliber QB, the other couldn't be given away for a measly 2nd round pick. Now I'll let you figure out which one is better and by how much in the eyes of the guys who do it for a living.

You mean the same guys who let that great franchise QB get away? And they value Orton?

But hey, why argue any stats or make a valid case for your opinion when you can just be lazy and use speculation (us trying to trade JC to another team for picks hasn't been confirmed, us talking to the Broncos about Cutler has)?