Who says we don't draft lines? A look at Danny's drafts and roster status

[corrupt3d]

For a paper I gotta write for one of an English requirement class, I'm writing about an in-depth look at our drafts since Dan Snyder took over the team and what our roster looked like at the time. I asked Zoony and he told me to post this, so far, it's preliminary research that can change and will be far more in-depth. The point of the paper is to use research from the past, to extrapolate to the future.

It helps that my teacher is a Skins fan, one who cancelled class after we beat Dallas, and once more after we lost to them

1999 Draft:

-Only notables: Champ Bailey and Jon Jansen

-No big DE/DT prospects passed up with the Bailey pick, we hit the lines with Jon Jansen, a solid RT in the coming years

2000 Draft:

-Only notables: Lavar Arrington and Chris Samuels

-We got our franchise LT

-Also drafted a guard in the fourth round and a DT (from Maryland) in the seventh

-Signed Bruce Smith

2001 Draft:

-Lines were not touched, except for a DT in the sixth

-OL did not need anyone, and the DL was relatively okay at this time (still had Bruce Smith)

-What did we need? WR’s help – we thought we got it in Rod Gardner and McCants, DB help with an aging Deion and Darrel, we got that in Smoot

2002 Draft:

-Lines were not touched, except a tackle in the sixth (Reggie Coleman) and a DE in the seventh (Greg Scott)

-OL did not really need anyone at this time, remember, we still had Jansen and Samuels as bookends

-Signed Renaldo Wynn to the D-Line, again, still had (an old) Bruce Smith

What did we need? A QB? Ramsey would have done well, had we stuck with Schottenheimer and had not Spurrier scared the crap out of him. We got an RB in Ladell Betts

2003 Draft:

-We needed some interior lineman. So we drafted Derrick Dockery (third round) and signed Randy Thomas

-A DE woulda been good, how about Osi Umenyiora – oh nope, Spurrier wanted Taylor Jacobs instead. I guess Spurrier was okay with Bruce Smith?

-What did we need? Interior OL help. We got that. We needed WR help still, so we traded for Laverneous Coles – was he worth a first rounder? No, but hindsight is 20/20 (or 50/50 if you ask Rod Gardner)

2004 Draft:

-Very few picks because of trades, this one was for the most part Gibbs. We did get some good players (RIP bud), but we did need some DL help, so we signed Cornelius Griffin and Phillip Daniels

-What did we need? A lot of things, but Gibbs got us two important guys and traded for a few others

2005 Draft:

-We needed a corner, we got one, we wanted a QB, we got one

-Lines were not hit in the draft, we did sign Casey Rabach

-What did we need? With Champ gone, another shutdown corner and a QB for Gibbs to develop, we also needed an effective WR, we got that by trading for Moss

2006 Draft:

-DL help was necessary, especially pass-rushing. We signed Andre Carter in hopes to help with that

-Drafted Kedric Golston and Anthony Montgomery and Kili Lefotu

-What did we need? Seemingly, after the “awesome” FA period, not a whole lot. We got a solid WLB in Rocky and surprises on the DT side of things

2007 Draft:

-Not many picks, got some solid guys, anyone we did pass on with the Dallas Sartz pick and the Jordan Palmer pick has not particularly done much

-What did we need? A whole heck of a lot of things unfortunately. But we didn’t have enough picks. We could have taken Jamaal Anderson or Amobi Okoye. I’m kinda glad we took Laron.

2008 Draft:

-OL help and DL help were necessary – or were they? One can argue for DL, specifically DE’s with the growth of Monty and Golston, but as for the OL, we had Jansen coming back, Randy Thomas coming back, and Heyer and Fabini playing at high levels, still, we drafted an OG to help replace Kendall after he leaves

-One could argue that we needed pass-catchers, we did, so we got them. We needed DB help, unfortunately, and we got them. We needed an upgrade at punter – we thought we got one…

…anyways, cases could have been made for all the positions we drafted for. We did trade for Erasmus James, and then unfortunately Jason Taylor

My point is this. Going into the 2008 Draft, what needs did we have?

-OL

-DL

-WR

-S

-CB

-LB

And we hit on 4 of those 6.

Now let’s look at this current team and what our prospective needs are when going into the 2009 draft and FA:

-OL

-DL

-LB

Basically, in writing the paper, my point is this: we've had a history of drafting based on our needs, rather than our wants. Problem is, we trade away our picks and spend money for our wants. Earlier, this could have been pegged on Danny (Bruce Smith, Deion Sanders, etc). Later, the coaches (Spurrier - Coles, Gibbs - Moss, Brunell and Portis).

Vinny, in this time, never quite had a draft to himself. But in his first draft, he hit our problem areas - granted the people he drafted haven't really helped our problem areas much YET.

So yes, it seems as though we never draft lines, but that's not particularly true. We've made FA signings that have - at the time of the signing - negated the need for drafting the lines.

So essentially, my long-winded thesis is, in the 2009 off-season, both draft and FA, the Redskins will hit their areas of need: LB, OL and DL

(and this is the part of the paper, where I say whom we target, etc).

There's more coming as I get to it, I'll post the final paper up in two weeks after I turn it in.

In the mean time, please let me know your thoughts on this topic and for any pointers (as well as, does anyone know where I can get starting rosters all the way back to 1999?)

[Seabee1973]

I honestly dont think we are going to be to active in thefree agent market again like the last 2 years

[corrupt3d]

I honestly dont think we are going to be to active in thefree agent market again like the last 2 years

I'd agree, but I think we'll at least sign an RT (like Jordan Gross) or an LB (Karlos Dansby)

But one of the routes that I'm gonna talk about is signing Hall and extending both Campbell and Rogers and no other FA signings.

[titus3]

Not having any first round picks in this years draft really hurt the Skins effort to upgrade the o-line especially at the tackle position. There were 8 o-linemen drafted in the first round and 7 of them were tackles. However, we did pick Chad Rinehart in the 3rd round. Hope he turns out to be a stud.

BTW, good luck on your paper.:thumbsup:

[PlayAction]

Not having any first round picks in this years draft really hurt the Skins effort to upgrade the o-line especially at the tackle position. There were 8 o-linemen drafted in the first round and 7 of them were tackles. However, we did pick Chad Rinehart in the 3rd round. Hope he turns out to be a stud.

BTW, good luck on your paper.:thumbsup:

Skins picked rather low in the first round to get any of the premier tackles. Skins would have had to give up their first and second to move up to hopefully get one of those OTs. So one OT for the three pass catchers that we got. If all three turn out to be busts then it would have been better to get the OT.

[Shilsu]

There's something wrong when you keep having the same needs over and over again.

[Skin'Em84]

Remember, we had a 1st in the 2008 draft. We traded to the Falcons for a couple 2nds.

Falcons drafted Sam Baker, who was amazing until he got injured.

Duane Brown was also taken by Houston a few picks later than our 1st, but I haven't seen Houston play so I don't know if he's doing well or not.

Plus, there were many of us saying we needed O-Line help for years. Our O-Line is aging, and the Line is also the most important spot on the field.

[Shilsu]

Plus' date=' there were many of us saying we needed O-Line help for years. Our O-Line is aging, and the Line is also the most important spot on the field.[/quote']

Yup... You can just check the ExtremeSkins archives. And just by deductive reasoning, you can see that the problem probably goes back to 2000 (fansince62 says "2 consecutive drafts" in 2002 while Old Glory says "last 4 years" in 2004).

From 2002:

"this makes 2 consecutive drafts where we have done nothing to improve the respective lines. this is going to bite us in the butt eventually." - fansince62

"I honestly thought they were going to pick Reed at #21. But with this trade, I'm actually dissapointed. Really don't want Ramsey. We need DL help as well as OG. I'm assuming we'll address the OL in the third round." - cdanrun

From 2003:

"We still have no pass rush for next year " - Riggo-toni

"jacobs was a value pick, no question. He adds more potential to the reciever core. but why just get value? why not get value AND fill a more pressing need. Such as youth on the DL" - Montilar

From 2004:

"We can't just blindly be happy and take no notice of the glaring shortfallings on the D-line. I hate cliches, but the game is won in the trenches .. and as we've seen in recent years, it doesn't matter who your back 7 are if the d-line can't do it's job." - Ford

"Some of you guys just don't get it. Every year for the last 4 years running you use the same excuse. "THERE WAS NO ONE WORTHY OF SELECTING FOR THE D-LINE" That's horse crap." - Old Glory

From 2005:

"Not a single defensive lineman in 7 rounds, but we draft 2 FB's when we have a ton already." - wvufootball1976

"Just think by not drafting any d-line it will probably make our team more attractive to UDFA d-linemen figuring they got a shot to make the team." - rdavis2005

"We need to start drafting a bunch of linemen in the middle rounds in order to fix our problems. I know we haven't had many mid round picks in recent years, but we need to start soon." - KillaCam21

From 2006:

"However....if we don't look seriously at adding more depth at O-line we will end up regretting it." - diesel22

"Is any one as scared as I am about Samuels or Jansen going down? Gibbs states he is satisfied with the roster now that the draft is completed. I think we have a glaring hole at backup OT. It seems like a spot most people, especially, Gibbs would wish to have a veteran at this position." - DWinzit

"we are f'd if any of our starting o-linemen go down, except dockery. lets hope that doesnt happen, for our sake." - kramdizzle

"Did you see us when Thomas went down. Our O Line is scary thin at back up. It is the price we pay for having high priced free agents. Btw, New England lost 3 O lineman last year and still maid the playoffs." - jschlesi

From 2007:

"JG is running out of time for his next SB, and without a drastically improved DL, we are not going to even come close." - turbodiesel#44

[Chump Bailey]

Duane Brown was also taken by Houston a few picks later than our 1st' date=' but I haven't seen Houston play so I don't know if he's doing well or not.[/quote']

I believe he's their starting LT - has been from the beginning. It would have been a wise choice IMO.

Although I think this was a good draft overall, we have neglected the offensive line for far too long IMO. It's not what I would have done, but I do think we got some good players.

We rely on UFA's and Bugel's coaching a bit too much IMO. Though again, I do think they have done an excellent job of finding undrafted talent. I think Crummey was a keeper and was sad to see him go.

Of course what I/we percieve as needs and deficiencies may differ greatly than those of the staff - if at all.

IMO: I think it's a mistake to assume Heyer is going to be our RT of the future. I like him, but I do not like his footwork at all. I think he is better suited inside. I do like Chad a great deal and I think he could play both OG/OT positions very well. I would have him play RT personally. I know Bugel likely would tell me I'm full of $$$$, but I am just being consistent and I do trust my instincts. Several mid to late players I had keyed in on before the draft ending up being quality guys for their respective teams.

[scruffylookin]

For a paper I gotta write for one of an English requirement class, I'm writing about an in-depth look at our drafts since Dan Snyder took over the team and what our roster looked like at the time. I asked Zoony and he told me to post this, so far, it's preliminary research that can change and will be far more in-depth. The point of the paper is to use research from the past, to extrapolate to the future.

It helps that my teacher is a Skins fan, one who cancelled class after we beat Dallas, and once more after we lost to them

1999 Draft:

-Only notables: Champ Bailey and Jon Jansen

-No big DE/DT prospects passed up with the Bailey pick, we hit the lines with Jon Jansen, a solid RT in the coming years

2000 Draft:

-Only notables: Lavar Arrington and Chris Samuels

-We got our franchise LT

-Also drafted a guard in the fourth round and a DT (from Maryland) in the seventh

-Signed Bruce Smith

2001 Draft:

-Lines were not touched, except for a DT in the sixth

-OL did not need anyone, and the DL was relatively okay at this time (still had Bruce Smith)

-What did we need? WR’s help – we thought we got it in Rod Gardner and McCants, DB help with an aging Deion and Darrel, we got that in Smoot

2002 Draft:

-Lines were not touched, except a tackle in the sixth (Reggie Coleman) and a DE in the seventh (Greg Scott)

-OL did not really need anyone at this time, remember, we still had Jansen and Samuels as bookends

-Signed Renaldo Wynn to the D-Line, again, still had (an old) Bruce Smith

What did we need? A QB? Ramsey would have done well, had we stuck with Schottenheimer and had not Spurrier scared the crap out of him. We got an RB in Ladell Betts

2003 Draft:

-We needed some interior lineman. So we drafted Derrick Dockery (third round) and signed Randy Thomas

-A DE woulda been good, how about Osi Umenyiora – oh nope, Spurrier wanted Taylor Jacobs instead. I guess Spurrier was okay with Bruce Smith?

-What did we need? Interior OL help. We got that. We needed WR help still, so we traded for Laverneous Coles – was he worth a first rounder? No, but hindsight is 20/20 (or 50/50 if you ask Rod Gardner)

2004 Draft:

-Very few picks because of trades, this one was for the most part Gibbs. We did get some good players (RIP bud), but we did need some DL help, so we signed Cornelius Griffin and Phillip Daniels

-What did we need? A lot of things, but Gibbs got us two important guys and traded for a few others

2005 Draft:

-We needed a corner, we got one, we wanted a QB, we got one

-Lines were not hit in the draft, we did sign Casey Rabach

-What did we need? With Champ gone, another shutdown corner and a QB for Gibbs to develop, we also needed an effective WR, we got that by trading for Moss

2006 Draft:

-DL help was necessary, especially pass-rushing. We signed Andre Carter in hopes to help with that

-Drafted Kedric Golston and Anthony Montgomery and Kili Lefotu

-What did we need? Seemingly, after the “awesome” FA period, not a whole lot. We got a solid WLB in Rocky and surprises on the DT side of things

2007 Draft:

-Not many picks, got some solid guys, anyone we did pass on with the Dallas Sartz pick and the Jordan Palmer pick has not particularly done much

-What did we need? A whole heck of a lot of things unfortunately. But we didn’t have enough picks. We could have taken Jamaal Anderson or Amobi Okoye. I’m kinda glad we took Laron.

2008 Draft:

-OL help and DL help were necessary – or were they? One can argue for DL, specifically DE’s with the growth of Monty and Golston, but as for the OL, we had Jansen coming back, Randy Thomas coming back, and Heyer and Fabini playing at high levels, still, we drafted an OG to help replace Kendall after he leaves

-One could argue that we needed pass-catchers, we did, so we got them. We needed DB help, unfortunately, and we got them. We needed an upgrade at punter – we thought we got one…

…anyways, cases could have been made for all the positions we drafted for. We did trade for Erasmus James, and then unfortunately Jason Taylor

My point is this. Going into the 2008 Draft, what needs did we have?

-OL

-DL

-WR

-S

-CB

-LB

And we hit on 4 of those 6.

Now let’s look at this current team and what our prospective needs are when going into the 2009 draft and FA:

-OL

-DL

-LB

Basically, in writing the paper, my point is this: we've had a history of drafting based on our needs, rather than our wants. Problem is, we trade away our picks and spend money for our wants. Earlier, this could have been pegged on Danny (Bruce Smith, Deion Sanders, etc). Later, the coaches (Spurrier - Coles, Gibbs - Moss, Brunell and Portis).

Vinny, in this time, never quite had a draft to himself. But in his first draft, he hit our problem areas - granted the people he drafted haven't really helped our problem areas much YET.

So yes, it seems as though we never draft lines, but that's not particularly true. We've made FA signings that have - at the time of the signing - negated the need for drafting the lines.

So essentially, my long-winded thesis is, in the 2009 off-season, both draft and FA, the Redskins will hit their areas of need: LB, OL and DL

(and this is the part of the paper, where I say whom we target, etc).

There's more coming as I get to it, I'll post the final paper up in two weeks after I turn it in.

In the mean time, please let me know your thoughts on this topic and for any pointers (as well as, does anyone know where I can get starting rosters all the way back to 1999?)

First off, throw out 1999 and 2001. Dan Snyder & Cerrato were not involved in those drafts. Snyder was not even owner yet at the time of the 1999 draft.

Second. Take a look at the results.

2002:

You claim for example that we didn't need to touch the Oline in 2002 and yet do you remember the garbage we had in 2002? Larry Moore, Ross Tucker, Wilbert Brown, David Loverne, Brendan Stai, Kipp Vickers, Alex Sulfstead, and a washed up Tre Johnson. Those were the names of all the men who took turns starting that season on the interior three. But boy at least we had our "bookend tackles".:doh: The line was a disaster. They did try and "upgrade" the line that offseason (most of those names were acquired that year) but they tried to half ass the line and fill it in with marginal players or has beens and the results were horrifying.

We did need a QB, the Ramsey pick was fine. Jaws loved the guy and was convinced that the Rams were going to nab him just before us. But we wasted the rest of the draft on Rashad Bauman and Ladell Betts instead of investing higher end picks on the lines.

2003:

Our mess in 2002 led to us overpaying for Randy Thomas and Dave Fiore. Sorry I know some people love Randy but he's not an elite guard. He's solid and at times good but not worth the cash we've paid him. They did draft Dockery so I'll give them credit there. D line was ignored again and we let our best player on the line from 02 (Gardener) leave via free agency (though given his history I won't blame them too much but they didn't replace him). So we had a 2002 like carosel again on the line except this time on the Dline with Lionel Dalton, Martin Chase, Jermaine Haley, Bernard Holsey, and Darrell Russell all taking turns at the tackle positions while a washed up Bruce Smith and an overpriced and overpaid "free agent prize" Regan Upshaw shared time at right end.

2004:

Good move in getting Griffin but Daniels was not the answer to our pass rushing needs. Putting him opposite Renaldo Wynn was a pass rushing joke. If you recall, Shawn Springs tied with Griffin that year for the team lead in sacks. Great year for Springs, but awful indictment of our line.

2005:

We "needed a corner" because we let Smoot walk. Springs and Smoot were great in 2004. The flaw of 2004's defense was a lack of a pass rush without the exotic GW blitzes. The fact that this organization saw to fill the "need" of a corner first instead of improving the pass rush is at the heart of the problems that has plagued this organization.

2006:

We did try to improve the pass rush by overpaying for Carter. Overall the results have been mixed. Horrible first 10 games. Very good last 6. Good 2007 and so far an invisible 2008. Golston and Montgomery are what they are but at that point in the draft it's more a hope that you find someone more than anything else. This team needs to invest it's "blue chip" picks (1st, 2nd, 3rd) on the lines and stop with hoping to find developmental players.

2007:

Landry was a horrible pick. Forget his play so far (not worthy of a 6th overall pick) and just focus at the time the pick was made. We had Sean Taylor roaming the secondary. We still had Springs. We invested a first in Rogers and we just signed Smoot back. Did we really need to invest in yet another secondary person? Of course not. It was a luxury pick that we could not afford. Instead of looking to replace Phillip Daniels, we continue to depend on him and when he goes down due to injury (shocker given age) this training camp we have nothing in reserve and feel compelled to unload more draft picks to get Jason Taylor. Contrast that to the Giants. They lose a hell of a better player in Osi Umenyora at roughly the same exact time and they don't panic. They are well stocked and have not missed a beat...........and still have their picks for next year's draft.

2008:

As mentioned above, we decided to go with Daniels instead of drafting a replacement and that has cost us a 2nd, a 6th and a boat load of dough that we had to cough up to get Jason Taylor.

We did draft Rinehart to try and start grooming for the future, but again he's a developmental player and the jury is still very much out (given his spotting play in the preseason) as to whether or not he's just another Jim Molinaro or Mark Wilson.

Only in 2000 will I give Snyder/Cerrato credit with regards to truly making a tough but bold move to help the lines. They could have gone with the sexy pick at #3 and picked Peter Warrick. Yes we were coming off of a great year where Westbrook and Connell were fantastic but still Snyder could have gone for a "modern day Posse" thing and go for another WR. Warrick was the "name guy" after LaVar. Instead, they chose Samuels who was considered a latter half of the top 10 or top 15 player by all the draft "experts". The only team the experts thought (other than the Skins) might pick Samuels in the top 10 was the Steelers at 8 or 9 (I forgot). Instead the Skins went with the LT (despite having Andy Heck still on the team who did a fine job in 1999). This move, going for an Olineman early in the draft despite having a veteran on the roster who played decent the year before, was an atypical move for Snyderrato.

Imagine if they had decided to go with Heck one more year and drafted Warrick instead. That is the kind of moves they've been making in the years since.

So yes, the lines have been ignored. Not necessarily in terms of money (Snyder is always willing to blow that) but rather in terms of BUILDING and SUSTAINING them. It's always pieced together from year to year and a hope that our over 30 players don't wear down or get hurt because we don't have anyone coming up behind them who we can rely on.

[DCsportsfan53]

The thing that you're break down did not show is, since Dockery, where have we spent a high round pick on a lineman? Dockery and Samuels are the only ones in the first 3 rounds this decade. We haven't drafted a DE, we got Monty and Golston late and they're best suited to rotate at the second DT position. We haven't gone after the high end talent on the lines in draft. What our defense needs more than anything else is someone to play the role that Cornelius Griffin did in 2004. Someone who can penetrate and collapse the pocket from the middle. It's hard to argue, though, that once again going into the next draft are biggest needs are CLEARLY along the lines, followed by LB. The offensive line is old and can't pass protect and we still have absolutely zero pass rush from a four man line. Been like that all of Vinny and Danny's tenure here and that's not a coincidence.

[chipwhich]

There is one major flaw in your original post. It's what some of us have been screaming about. It's totally overlooked in your premise.

Championship teams are built in the trenches.

We haven't had great trenches for 20 years.

So when you put by each draft "What did we need?" You missed out on the mark by a mile. Every draft you listed our most important needs were O and D lineman.

[ntotoro]

We've been getting line, but we have been getting scrubs and/or late-round pics who wind up doing nothing. That's the problem. We need talent, not just bodies.

[BigRedskinDaddy]

I'm torn on this one. I read scruffy's post, and Om's latest blog entry, and it seems like maybe this FO will never get it past their thick skulls that they need to start building inside-out rather than outside-in.

Then again, I agree with the OP that Vinny hasn't exactly had a lot of picks with which to do so. This year's class could still reap dividends in coming seasons, and while we don't have a full set of picks next year, there are enough that these line needs can and, I believe, WILL be addressed.

Call it blind optimism, or something else entirely. I think we're seeing a paradigm shift in our FO that will take a couple of years to pay off, but it's happening.

[skinfan2k]

You guys might kill me for suggesting this but if somehow we can grab a top notch Guard with our 1st round pick and maybe trade the '10 first round pick to get another 1 this year and draft a top notch RT or Center, I would be pretty happy

[Voice_of_Reason]

You guys might kill me for suggesting this but if somehow we can grab a top notch Guard with our 1st round pick and maybe trade the '10 first round pick to get another 1 this year and draft a top notch RT or Center, I would be pretty happy

The Colts did that a couple years ago to pick up Ugo (I think) to play LT. Everybody said, "wow, they predict the future, what a great organization" If it happened here, everybody would say, "There's Vinny again, mortgaging the future." Even Bethard would routinely trade future #1s for picks in the current draft.

But I digress.

I've posted this elsewhere, but the thought in LAST YEARS DRAFT ONLY was that they had a GLARING need at WR, and they had guys coming back from injury on the O-Line and the D-Line. They did not have anybody coming back to the WR corps, and Moss+ARE+Thrash would possibly be the worst 3 WRs in the league. So they figured they could patch together an O-Line and a D-Line for one more year, solve the WR problem this year, and then address the O-Line and D-Line issues the following year.

Problems: Daniells went out immediately, forcing a trade for Taylor, who promptly got bent in half in Pre-Season then kicked in the 3rd game of the season, so he's been a shell of himself. Carter has not shown up, and there has been NO push from the DT spot, so the D-Line has been attrocious. I don't think any of these things were completley predictable. I think that they knew it wouldn't be the Gians D-Line, but I don't think anybody thought it would be THIS bad.

On the O-Line, Samuels is playing hurt, Jansen came back from injury and just isn't the same player. He lost his job to Heyer, who then got hurt. Now Heyer has to practice at LT instead of RT, because there's no gaurentee that Samuels is going to finish any game he starts because of his knee. Kendall has been fine, Rabach has been abused, and Thomas has been ok, but not as dominant as he once was. So three of the 5 members of the O-Line would get failing grades, at least in pass protection, and I don't think anybody could have predicted that either.

On the second round Rookies: Thomas and Kelley both came into camp out of shape (Zorn called them both out on this), proptly got injured, and have not contributed at all to the offense. Davis is a mystery, but he apparently hasn't caught onto the offense quite quickly enough, and at the TE position, that's key because they are often times the last line of defense on a blitz: either the hot read or a blocker, so a TE who doesn't know what to do will get the QB killed. The hope was that ONE of these guys would step up and conttribute this year. That hasn't happened either.

So what we're left with is a D-Line that stinks, an O-Line that stinks at pass blocking, a WR corps that scares nobody, and a developing QB. The defense can't force turnovers and short fields, the offense can't stretch the field, and they average like -4 points a game.

[TWINSKINS]

You want quality in the trenches then you have to draft high.

Case in point;the current Skins o-line has 2 first rounders and 2 second rounders.

Rabach,the odd one out, was drafted in round 3.

The Skins D-Line?

Carter was a first,Griff a second,jason taylor a third(!)and phil Daniels a fourth(!!)

No wonder there is no pass rush.

Then look at our secondary-Landry/Springs/Hall/Rogers all firsts with Smootie feeling he should have been a first!

[Wyvern]

In recent years, especially the Gibbs years, it seems like our drafting has been impacted by how successful our coaches were in developing their talent. The better the coaches did with what the front office gave them -- the less inclined the FO was to use higher rated draft picks to help them.

So, since Bugel (O-Line) and Blache (D-line) were able to maximize the potential of what they were given, they tended to get less help in the draft.

On the other hand our WR coach (Hixon) hasn't been able to develop much beyond Moss (who was more of a finished product when he came here.) After Hixon wasn't able to develop his current crop of WRs, nor the draftees he received, nor the free agents who were brought in, Hixon now has the top-rounders of the Skins 2008 draft to work with again.

The Williams defensive system system put emphasis on the secondary and the outside linebackers -- considering the issues with Bauman, Springs injury history, as well as the many whiffs at linebacker (Barrow, McCune, Simon, Sartz, etc.) these areas tended to be addressed in the draft a lot.

Lastly, since the Skins weren't able to develop Ramsey into their franchise QB, the FO has had to use 3 draft picks on QBs over the last 4 years, plus two free agent signings. Considering the smaller number of picks the Skins usually have, 3 draft choices represents a significant percentage to use at one position over 4 years. (When you toss in the picks traded away to move up to pick Campbell, along with the money used to sign Brunnell and Collins, and the Skins might have been able to land a good lineman or two.)

[Voice_of_Reason]

Then look at our secondary-Landry/Springs/Hall/Rogers all firsts with Smootie feeling he should have been a first!

Huh. You know, I completely forgot that Smoot was a second rounder. I thought he was a first. Go figure.

[redskins59]

Save for the left tackle, your O-line picks don't need to be high-round picks. Just look at the Giants--most of their O-line players are not first or second round picks. Heck, their O-line doesn't even have one person who's a first-round pick. As for the defensive line, I think that's where we should spend our high round draft picks.

Offensive line of the New York Giants:

LT --David Diehl--5th round pick

LG- Rich Seubert--not even drafted

C- Shaun O'Hara --not drafted

RG- Chris Snee--2nd round pick

RT-Kareem McKenzie --3rd rounded

So, let's see, I'd only consider Chris Snee to be a high round draft pick. Save for the left tack position, all other offensive line positions can be acquired in 5th or 6th round. All you need to do is develop them. Rinehart, to me, is a solid pick this year. So I say don't draft O-line in the first two rounds. Use 3rd-7th round picks to improve your O-line.

[addicted]

I honestly dont think we are going to be to active in thefree agent market again like the last 2 years

I really hope that is not the case. This is going to shape up as one of the better FA classes in a while and we simply don't have enough draft picks to help the team out enough to put us above the Giants or Cowboys in 2009 and address our needs.

[Hooper]

Vinny almost always finds an excuse not to take a linemen in the early rounds.

And we keep paying the price for it.

[Peregrine]

So, drafting DLinemen in the 6th and 7th round is an example of us putting emphasis on drafting linemen? And apparently signing FA linemen is the same as drafting them? No one claims we haven't gone out and signed FA DLinemen.

Ask Peyton Manning how well the Colts played when they had Oline injuries at the beginning of this year. Then ask him how hes doing now.

[IHOPSkins]

.....there were many of us saying we needed O-Line help for years......

X2

I want an ELITE O-Line

You don't get that drafting/trading the way we have

[Soup]

I still think we need a better Wide Reciever until the pups get up to speed. I'm banking the skins will pick all defense in this year's draft and only pick up one OL, maybe in the first or 3rd round.

I think the skins will pick up T.J. Houshmandzadeh in off season and another Dline or LB in free agency. I know they won't destroy the oline and will keep everyone except Jansen.