America's Most Overrated Product: the Bachelor's Degree

[laurent]

Are you kidding? The gov't hands out Confidential and Secret clearances to just about anybody these days.

Trust me, I'm the one who has to clean up after those jabronies when they email classified material over the internet. :mad:

Good to see somebody with experience in the field echoing my sentiments.

[mjah]

I'm not advocating anything.

chom got me wondering too: what do you do for a living?

[Stophovr6]

chom got me wondering too: what do you do for a living?

Yeah I want to know too.

[dfitzo53]

I didn't even graduate high school and I make over six figures. I've noticed all of the people talking about how important a degree is have one. Go figure.

I'm sure you recognize that the vast majority of people without or with only a high school diploma are not making six figures.

[Corcaigh]

Yeah I want to know too.

Either bank robber or air traffic controller.

[More Complete]

I'm sure you recognize that the vast majority of people without or with only a high school diploma are not making six figures.

Yes. However, that's not to say that no formal education = failure in life. This is America after all.

chom got me wondering too: what do you do for a living?

Yeah I want to know too.

Disaster Recovery and Contingency Planning.

[jpillian]

the Eisenhowers were a poor family from the wrong side of the tracks in Abilene, Kansas, yet they were still able to send their sons Edgar and Dwight to law school in Michigan. They had to work out an arrangement, only one could go at a time, but they made it work.

Okay, this is a totally unrelated point to the thread, but I've gotta understand this bit of trivia: Dwight (the prez) went to West Point and was career Army. Was their another Eisenhower named Dwight that went to Michigan to law school?

BTW -- I think I'll pick that book up. It looks absolutely fascinating.

[ChocolateCitySkin]

i'm finishing up my masters in architecture -- and i must say, i truly value the degree even if i never end up using it i learned a very structured way to handle design. hence, my ability to jump around from: film, art, architecture, graphic design, web design and produce a high quality product.

while some fields train you on these topics specifically -- because of the beaux arts movement expected you to be well versed in all elements of design -- moreover, theres something to be said for the comradarie between those professions withs a code of ethics. for personal well-being it makes you feel separate from those that haven't finished a professional degree.

anyways, i don't know if i'll use my degree for architecture in the end... but i do know that i'm incredibly happy with my education (also, the motivation for supplementing that education)

and while technical skills i've been able to learn in books -- design analytical skills solely seemed transferable through a classroom setting.

[dfitzo53]

Okay, this is a totally unrelated point to the thread, but I've gotta understand this bit of trivia: Dwight (the prez) went to West Point and was career Army. Was their another Eisenhower named Dwight that went to Michigan to law school?

BTW -- I think I'll pick that book up. It looks absolutely fascinating.

Dwight D. Eisenhower was Dwight David Eisenhower. I believe he had a brother named David Dwight Eisenhower. Maybe that's who it was?

[ChocolateCitySkin]

oh yeah, and i get the added advantage of being able to trump everyones knowledge in the cool buildings thread

[JohnLockesGhost]

Okay, this is a totally unrelated point to the thread, but I've gotta understand this bit of trivia: Dwight (the prez) went to West Point and was career Army. Was their another Eisenhower named Dwight that went to Michigan to law school?

BTW -- I think I'll pick that book up. It looks absolutely fascinating.

You're right. I didn't really want to explain the whole story, but after Edgar and Dwight came to their arrangement (one year on, one year off for each) Dwight decided he would try to get an appointment to a service academy (Naval Academy was his first choice) because then he could go for free and keep playing football. So he got an appointment from a Senator, took the test and got in.

And it is a really good book. Lars Anderson from Sports Illustrated wrote it.

[Fergasun]

With the majority of the millionaires in this country being service business owners, which doesn't require a BS, statiscally based on personal accumulation of wealth, the BS is well....BS :laugh: I wish that I could provide data on how many of these service business owners that had or didn't have college degress but I would bet that the majority didn't. I mean how many college grads would say, hmmm...I think I'll start a landscaping, pool cleaning, remodeling, pest control,... or contracting business. I must say though that I do chuckle every day when I'm on the way to the bank with a 5 figure check.

You must've gone 20 posts in when someone finally posted what I've been thinking.

Heck, when my son graduates I'll buy him some type of business franchise or other business for $20k-$30k or something... then I'll see how motivated he is to work his own job... he can live in the house for 4 years and save money up with his business and then go to college when he sells it if he wants to.

If you're good people you should be able to find a job. Also, connections are a very important part of the game.

[Fergasun]

If you own a business, and you are an entrepreneur, then SOMETIMES having a degree does not help. . .but maybe if you had a MBA, your business would go from a six figure income to a 7 figure income.

What type of logic is this? Do you ask people if they have an MBA before you buy something from them? And then do you pay 10x more because they have an MBA?

[SkinsHokieFan]

I made more in 2004 running a paint company then I do at my current full time job. And I don't exactly make chopped liver at this job

A degree essentially is a nice safety net. If you get some sort of business degree or engineering degree you will find SOMETHING out there that'll get you about 35-40k a year

But no, you don't need the degree to do something like carpentry, which can never be outsourced and can make you tons of cash

[PleaseBlitz]

For the record, America's most overrated product is Peeps. Who the **** is buying Peeps?

[China]

For the record, America's most overrated product is Peeps. Who the **** is buying Peeps?

Gangsters?

[81artmonk]

It all depends on hoe you value your money, how smart you are, and how you apply yourself. I went to a 4 year state school, paid for it myself, graduated in 3.5 years and the total bill was $15k.

If people want to shell out the $40K/year for an Ivy league school, they are more than welcome to do so, but in the long term it isn't your BS that matters, it is your MS. So to a state school, get the in-state tuition rates, apply yourself and then go to an Ivy with your MS.

You obviously didn't read all my post. As I stated that going to a local community college is a better investment.

I know this doesn't pertain to everyone, but my best friend graduated V V from high school and went to a sort of large school to become an engineer. When he graduated, the jobs he was offered and looked at paid little to nothing in that field.

He after a year ended up in the military since the military paid more than a job that he studied for with a degree.

I have many people who I went to high school with who did go to college and are working in jobs that don't pay what they should. Obviously I don't their situations, but the degree doesn't always equate to a good paying job. I also know many who didn't go to school and have better paying jobs than those who did.

I likin it to a ticket lottery. Where you buy tickets to win the grand prize at a school carnival. the more tickets you buy the better your chances of winning, but you aren't guarnteed. Your degree is buying lots of tickets, it betters your chances, but it doesn't mean you will come out better than before.

Don't even get me started on what they expect you to learn. IMO I'm paying for the education, tell me what I need to know for my career field, and what that equates to for a degree and that's what I learn. Don't expect me to take other non-related classes, becuase you think I need a well rounded education.

[zoony]

Some of the smartest and most successful people I've known (and know) never went to college.

A friend of mine (who has a PHD in Education) explained it best. As a rule, the smartest people you will ever meet are people who are succesful despite very little education. The reason of course is that they were able to pick up job skills, adapt, and learn on the fly, having never been fortunate enough for a formal education.

I have a friend that lives closeby who has a $1 million + home, more money than he could ever spend in a lifetime... and he's barely literate. (He's a builder/contractor) Probably one of the smartest men I know.

Also, a good friend of the my parents made his living in the corporate world... he held several different VP jobs with several different large corporations... his final job was President of a medium-sized Aerospace company based in Columbus OH. He never even graduated from High School. He has 7 Porsche track cars that he races on weekends

So yah, I think college diplomas are mostly bull****. Don't get me wrong, I think education is a wonderful thing, but it is no substitute for drive, hard work, and general smarts.

Many kids graduate today and use their diploma as a crutch... thinking that it buys them some sort of right of passage in the corporate world. Nothing could be further from the truth. And companies that promote/hire based on education are destined to fail.

p.s.

Technical degrees are different

[jbooma]

That is because IT is a relatively new field, and there are a lot of people in IT that have degrees in other fields. For example, one of my good friends runs the Linux IT department for the State, but his degree is in CJ. Having the degree tells people that you have the ability to learn, that is all it does.

From my experience you don't want someone with a degree in CS or Information Systems what is more desireable is a degree in business or organizational management and experience in IT. Then maybe a couple of certifications.

If I was hiring an IT position I would not look at CS degrees, unless of course it is a programming job. However if I was looking for someone who can understand clients and systems then I would go for a business degree and experience in IT. The key to being important in your company is you have to become part of the business no matter what you do from hr, to IT, that makes you valuable.

The truth about college degrees if you want a good job you will need one or know someone, it is that simple. They are very important and one thing I would recommend ANYONE here is do not get in debt for you bachelors. You want to spend money on your masters degree, or of course if you go ivy league.

The other thing I would highly recommend to anyone in school right now is minor in english. The ability to write at a high level position is crucial in todays work environment. The one thing I regret now is not taking more english classes while in college.

[jbooma]

So yah, I think college diplomas are mostly bull****. Don't get me wrong, I think education is a wonderful thing, but it is no substitute for drive, hard work, and general smarts.

Many kids graduate today and use their diploma as a crutch... thinking that it buys them some sort of right of passage in the corporate world. Nothing could be further from the truth. And companies that promote/hire based on education are destined to fail.

p.s.

Technical degrees are different

I agree with what you are saying but it is harder to succeede in todays business world without a degree. Unless of course you open your own business etc... or like I said know someone. In the past you had more chances without a degree but now you need it to get your foot in the door for an interview.

After HS I went to college then dropped out to work fulltime. I was getting decent jobs and learning a lot about IT but it got to the point where I had to get a degree in something. I did not get my degree in IT which was a blessing in diguise. Without that piece of paper I would'nt be where I am today.

[GibbsFactor]

From my experience you don't want someone with a degree in CS or Information Systems what is more desireable is a degree in business or organizational management and experience in IT. Then maybe a couple of certifications.

If I was hiring an IT position I would not look at CS degrees, unless of course it is a programming job. However if I was looking for someone who can understand clients and systems then I would go for a business degree and experience in IT. The key to being important in your company is you have to become part of the business no matter what you do from hr, to IT, that makes you valuable.

The truth about college degrees if you want a good job you will need one or know someone, it is that simple. They are very important and one thing I would recommend ANYONE here is do not get in debt for you bachelors. You want to spend money on your masters degree, or of course if you go ivy league.

The other thing I would highly recommend to anyone in school right now is minor in english. The ability to write at a high level position is crucial in todays work environment. The one thing I regret now is not taking more english classes while in college.

Sage advice. :applause:

[ECU-ALUM]

A college degree is a useful tool. It's how you use it that makes it either a waste of time or helps you get ahead.

Okay some of the courses I took I am still wondering what good they are really doing me...then again if I ever get on "Jeopardy" some of those things are going to help me kick a** for sure.

My college degree got my to the doorstep of my career, my 1st Masters Degree got my foot in the door...the one I am getting ready to start in August is going to kick the door down once and for all.

[PleaseBlitz]

Some of the smartest and most successful people I've known (and know) never went to college.

A friend of mine (who has a PHD in Education) explained it best. As a rule, the smartest people you will ever meet are people who are succesful despite very little education. The reason of course is that they were able to pick up job skills, adapt, and learn on the fly, having never been fortunate enough for a formal education.

I have a friend that lives closeby who has a $1 million + home, more money than he could ever spend in a lifetime... and he's barely literate. (He's a builder/contractor) Probably one of the smartest men I know.

Also, a good friend of the my parents made his living in the corporate world... he held several different VP jobs with several different large corporations... his final job was President of a medium-sized Aerospace company based in Columbus OH. He never even graduated from High School. He has 7 Porsche track cars that he races on weekends

So yah, I think college diplomas are mostly bull****. Don't get me wrong, I think education is a wonderful thing, but it is no substitute for drive, hard work, and general smarts.

Many kids graduate today and use their diploma as a crutch... thinking that it buys them some sort of right of passage in the corporate world. Nothing could be further from the truth. And companies that promote/hire based on education are destined to fail.

p.s.

Technical degrees are different

It must be different in uh, Belgium. One of the smartest guys I know went to college, took 2 years of ridiculous classes like Chaos Math and stuff i cant even begin to wrap my head around, but he's lazy, so he failed out and now he works at a lawnmower shop.

Im sure there are lots of 'exceptions' to the rule, but most people that are super-successful in this country have college degrees.

[zoony]

It must be different in uh, Belgium. One of the smartest guys I know went to college, took 2 years of ridiculous classes like Chaos Math and stuff i cant even begin to wrap my head around, but he's lazy, so he failed out and now he works at a lawnmower shop.

Im sure there are lots of 'exceptions' to the rule, but most people that are super-successful in this country have college degrees.

my main point is that most 20 somethings today think that a 4 year degree is much more than it actually is. I see it all the time... the sense of entitlement that comes with an education. That hard work isn't necessary b/c they're educated. That the reason they aren't more successful is not because of anything they're doing... but because they don't have enough education. so when things aren't going well for them career wise... their solution is, you guessed it, more education. Now sometimes it is the right choice, but more often than not I'd say it's not.

it doesn't do any harm, mind you. education is important I think for a number of reasons. But it is extremely over-rated for a variety of reasons too, especially as it relates to the business world... and education can even be counter-productive for immature people who think b/c they have a 4 year degree, nothing else they do really matters (which again, I see it all the time)

I make a very hefty salary, spend probably half that again on T&E alone, I have over 60 people who report to me, and quite honestly if I'd gone to work out of HS (rather than getting my Bachelors) I'd probably be in the same place I am now. :2cents:

Again, I'm very proud of my BBA and wouldn't trade that experience for anything... I'm just smart enough to know that it's not the reason that I am where I am today.

[PleaseBlitz]

All of my friends that are successful dont see a college degree as something that entitles them to anything, they see it as a minimum requirement to being successful. I bought a house when i was 25, i doubt i could have done that with a HS diploma and a tool belt.