America's Most Overrated Product: the Bachelor's Degree

[zoony]

i doubt i could have done that with a HS diploma and a tool belt.

Absolutely wrong. It would have been no problem whatsoever.

[PleaseBlitz]

Absolutely wrong. It would have been no problem whatsoever.

You've never seen me build anything.

That was suppossed to be a spice rack.

[FlyinO]

All of my friends that are successful dont see a college degree as something that entitles them to anything, they see it as a minimum requirement to being successful. I bought a house when i was 25, i doubt i could have done that with a HS diploma and a tool belt.

I concur.

[zoony]

You've never seen me build anything.

:laugh:

in that case, you'd do better to have worked on a framing crew for a year or so to learn the ropes out of High School.

By age 19, you could take out a small business loan and buy some equipment, a truck, and start doing work on the side.

If you're any good, and motivated, contractors will be lining up for your services. Next thing you know, you can quit your other job and work for yourself full time.

Of course, you'll need help, so you hire a few other guys your age and pay them $12/hour.

Next thing you know, you're 23 years old and running 3-4 different framing crews. You've just started your first spec- home, which you are going to contract out yourself, having been in the industry now for 5 years. You'll sell it for roughly $50k in profit, and decide that's a good way to make a living... in addition to the $50-$100k / year you're making off the framing business.

So you're not even 25 yet, no college... and you're making $100-$150k a year, and the sky is the limit. You've had to bust your ass, sure... but it nowhere along the way has a course in marketing strategy, economics, or sales management been important, or even relevant.

Of course, it all comes crashing down with the housing collapse... but that's beside the point, I'm rolling

But there are several other scenarios... I see them all the time.

The PROBLEM is though that most guys who skip out on college nowadays (there are exceptions) just aren't motivated to begin with... and choose instead to work on a framing crew and use their money to buy weed and PS3 games.

[jpillian]

I've seen both sides of it.

In my experience, if you have a great idea, and determination, start your own business and make your own business and make your millions. Go be successful. Odds are, if you're smart, you'll turn out all right. It'll be a roller coaster no doubt, but you'll probably do well in the end.

If, however, you decide for whatever reason (security, interest, whatever) that the career path you want lies in a large organization, you really need a degree to advance. I know of no one in my corporation, above second line, that doesn't have at least a bachelor's degree. And if you want to make director or above before you're 40, you either be an officer's kid, or have a Master's in something that shows you're a smart cookie.

It just depends on what path you choose. You can be infinitely successful either way.

Personally, I really like the idea of kids doing something between HS and college (if they even do college) just so they can mature a bit and figure out what the heck they want. However, unfortunately, the way scholarships are currently weighted, you really have to head to college right after high school to have any shot of getting a majority of your undergrad paid for (with the exception of ROTC and such). I think this is one of the things that needs to change if we want more well-grounded, knowledgeable students entering college knowing why they are in school.

[zoony]

my roomate (and best friend) freshman year of college dropped out (failed out, lol) due to excessive drinking and marijuana use.

He then took a job with an Anheuser Busch distributor driving a beer truck. We all thought that would be the end of the road for him.

I lost touch with him but recently heard that he is some sort of big-shot with a regional distributor and is making more money than any of us

[PleaseBlitz]

my roomate (and best friend) freshman year of college dropped out (failed out, lol) due to excessive drinking and marijuana use.

He then took a job with an Anheuser Busch distributor driving a beer truck. We all thought that would be the end of the road for him.

I lost touch with him but recently heard that he is some sort of big-shot with a regional distributor and is making more money than any of us

My buddy does that now for Sam Adams, except he has a degree so he got to skip the truck driving part.

A friend that can pick up the tab every single time as long as you are drinking a certain brand of beer is possibly the best friend you can possibly have.

[TheLongshot]

For me, the biggest value I got out of college wasn't from what I learned, tho there was value in that. No, college for me was one big stress test. It gave me the intestinal fortitude to deal with BS and get done what needed to get done.

Jason

[Titaw]

Are you kidding? The gov't hands out Confidential and Secret clearances to just about anybody these days.

Trust me, I'm the one who has to clean up after those jabronies when they email classified material over the internet. :mad:

I'm not talkin about those, almost anyone can get those.

I have the coup di gras (sp?) if you will.

[DeanCollins]

My buddy does that now for Sam Adams, except he has a degree so he got to skip the truck driving part.

A friend that can pick up the tab every single time as long as you are drinking a certain brand of beer is possibly the best friend you can possibly have.

My best friend has a 60' cruiser, and a twin engined Mooney, that we take to the keys, marquesas, dry tortugas, cay sal bank, bahamas, turks and caicos.... scuba diving and fishing . he owns his own business also .

[Leonard Washington]

high school diploma isn't good enough.

technical degree is perfect but your earning and promotion potential is limited.

college degree doesn't make you different from anyone else.

graduate degrees makes you too expensive to hire.

[endzone_dave]

I think if you're talking about a person with 20 years experience, a degree is not that important. If you're young and trying to get your first job, a degree means everything. Do you think any accounting firm would hire an 18 year old with a HS diploma over a 22 year old with an accounting degree? A degree serves as that first foot in the door. After that, hard work and experience takes over.

[Tweedr01]

I am neither but hope to be a business owner eventually. Lucky huh? I find that a bit insulting. I prefer to think of myself as intelligent and hard working. On the other hand, I guess a little luck never hurt anybody.

I imagine if I did have a degree things may have been a bit easier but who knows. A degree isn’t exactly “easy” either.

Its not insulting its the truth, almost all companies that hire for a six figure income won't even give you an interview without a degree. So for you not to be in sales or a business owner, and make a six figure income, makes youe extremely lucky.

[More Complete]

Its not insulting its the truth, almost all companies that hire for a six figure income won't even give you an interview without a degree. So for you not to be in sales or a business owner, and make a six figure income, makes youe extremely lucky.

No, it's insulting. Trust me, I would know don’t you think? You can call it luck if you want but I've had to work very hard to get where I am. That "almost all companies" won’t give you an interview is obviously not true as I've worked for many.

[zoony]

Its not insulting its the truth, almost all companies that hire for a six figure income won't even give you an interview without a degree. So for you not to be in sales or a business owner, and make a six figure income, makes youe extremely lucky.

When I was 23, I believed that too.

However it's simply not true.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

Kind of interesting that this came up, considering that we're in the middle of a massive shift in the company that I work for.

For those that don't know, I work for the third largest electric and gas utility company in the United States. I work as a Designre in the Distribution Design department, which means that I help design pretty much all of the new underground electrical services in the area where I work. I work with engineers for the most part. Four year degree holding engineers. Though not for much longer.

The company has made a massive shift in its philosophy in the Engineering, Accounting, and Legal departments. They want to move almost to the entirely opposite extreme from their current philosophy and hire TWO year degree holding engineers, actuarials, and legal clerks and leave a very small number of four year degree holders in those departments almost exclusively in supervisory roles.

Of course their main benefit from two year degree employees..... SALARY SAVINGS. A four year EE from a reasonably sized university is going to expect at least $55K a year minimum in this part of the world, and possibly considerably more depending on their experience. They can bring in two year EE's for around $34K a year.

The Bachelor's degree is quickly becoming a luxury rather than a necessity in many of the occupations I see.

[McMetal]

However if I was looking for someone who can understand clients and systems then I would go for a business degree and experience in IT. The key to being important in your company is you have to become part of the business no matter what you do from hr, to IT, that makes you valuable.

The other thing I would highly recommend to anyone in school right now is minor in english. The ability to write at a high level position is crucial in todays work environment. The one thing I regret now is not taking more english classes while in college.

You're talking about me here. I would suggest though, not to limit your Search to candidates with Business degrees. How about English Majors?

I work as a IT Business Analyst and I don't think I ever even sent so much as an email in college. I was an English major with a Minor in American Studies.

I don't think a college degree is overrated at all, but I do think they often end up unrelated to the career you pursue.

On a separate note, "degrees" from places like U. Phoenix are a complete wate of time and money, IMO. These are money making operations, not institutes of higher learning.

[mjah]

A four year EE from a reasonably sized university is going to expect at least $55K a year minimum in this part of the world, and possibly considerably more depending on their experience. They can bring in two year EE's for around $34K a year.

The Bachelor's degree is quickly becoming a luxury rather than a necessity in many of the occupations I see.

Having lived in MA and experienced the cost of living all over that state, I would consider the BS and its 60% salary increase (in your example) to be a bit more than a "luxury."

$34K isn't going to go too far anywhere, but especially not in one of the more expensive states. An extra $21K per year will very quickly pay for those extra two years of school.

[mjah]

On a separate note, "degrees" from places like U. Phoenix are a complete wate of time and money, IMO. These are money making operations, not institutes of higher learning.

And sometimes unaccredited operations, by the way.

Business degree seekers, beware.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

Having lived in MA and experienced the cost of living all over that state, I would consider the BS and its 60% salary increase (in your example) to be a bit more than a "luxury."

$34K isn't going to go too far anywhere, but especially not in one of the more expensive states. An extra $21K per year will very quickly pay for those extra two years of school.

The thing you're missing, mjah, is that the company has made it perfectly clear that this is their way of doing business going forward. They are not going to even be looking to hire four year degree applicants. It's my understanding that they've already turned down two or three Bachelor's degree Engineers to hire less expensive Associates degree holding candidates; basically telling these four year engineers "You're OVERQUALIFIED and we're not going to pay the sort of salary you'd be looking for."

That's part of why I'm off to a Union Stewards meeting momentarily, as we prepare for our first contract negotiations with the company (the Engineering Dept unionized back in Dec).

[mjah]

The thing you're missing, mjah, is that the company has made it perfectly clear that this is their way of doing business going forward. They are not going to even be looking to hire four year degree applicants. It's my understanding that they've already turned down two or three Bachelor's degree Engineers to hire less expensive Associates degree holding candidates; basically telling these four year engineers "You're OVERQUALIFIED and we're not going to pay the sort of salary you'd be looking for."

I understand that. And if their plan proves successful -- if the Associate holders are full capable of doing the work -- it will simply prove that they shouldn't have been hiring 4-year degree holders for those positions in the first place.

:whoknows:

I think your situation is fairly exceptional.

[JosephGibbs]

This pretty much sums it up. A lazy-ass with a Bachelor's degree is still a lazy ass. A hard worker with a Bachelor's degree is still a hard worker and knows that the degree is a supplement for improving their career.

The big secret: college is what you make it; you can basically learn as little or as much as you want. You can make it as easy or as hard as you want.

[edgun88]

This article is extremely stupid. Actually it kinda pisses me off. I'm working extremely hard for my degree. For this idiot to lessen the hard work it takes for a degree is moronic. Yes, the majority of your working knowledge comes from hands on experience in the field, but college prepares you to take on the real world.

[ChocolateCitySkin]

eh, am i the only one that sees value in being considered a professional. call it elitism but i like being able to talk to a doctor or lawyer as if you're on the same intellectual level.

the reason contractors make lots of money is risk vs. reward. in the seventies architects decided to mitigate their risk and transfer them over to the contractors (big mistake).

anyways, the AIA is hammering out a new construction model that essentially turns each product into a business entity where the owner, architect and contractor share profits upon completion. with bim modeling becoming more powerful cds are being produced at earlier points for contractors... of course, this model benefits everyone except shady under skilled contractors... i think you're going to see a reemergence of the value of professional architects and devaluation of sub-par contractors.

the days of illiterate contractors are numbered...

heres a graph of this new project delivery system and its potential cost impact...

honestly, this is going to require skilled well educated contractors --

hell the pentagon memorial wouldn't deal with any contractors that didn't know what a 3dm file was... as technology improves so do prerequisites for contractors.

unless you are a traditional contractor -- always jobs for true craftsmans.

[chomerics]

What type of logic is this? Do you ask people if they have an MBA before you buy something from them? And then do you pay 10x more because they have an MBA?

Nope, but you may get a better insight to the market place for your product, how to advertise it better, how to manage your company better, how to invest, and distribute your revenue streams, how to keep track of the money, how to manage the people around you etc. etc.

To insinuate you can do just as well running a business without and MBA than with an MBA shows you really have no idea what kind of insight the degree brings you. . .let me guess though, you are against higher education because they are all liberals right?