To Mercury Morris and the rest of the 1972 Dolphins: STFU (merged)

[Jumbo]

First, I meant what I said to Tom.

Sorry, I don't care much about the Pats, but all the popular Pat-hating here is just more ES at its numbest, IMO. As a Redskins fan who watched George Allen take an over-the-hill-gang against the odds all the way to the big one, but lose to "the perfect team" in a historic Superbowl (we'd have four )and then watch those arrogant geriatric farts crow every year since, especially lame after other teams went 18 straight without a loss, and then to NOT want to seize any opportunity to cheer for the end of that BS just means you kinda have your head up your ass as a 'skins fan IMO.

Part two , wanting the giants to now have as many Lombardi’s as us is just beyond my understanding :doh: . We were once able to boast a clear distinction there on bragging rights. So there are two big reasons real Redskins’ fans should have been pulling for the Pats before we even get to the part where the Giants are our rivals. Its weird to me that the silly "hate" trip was more motivating to 80% of the membership. :whoknows:

Especially since it's likely most of the sentiment is that lamo envy-hate. I think most of you are kidding yourself if you think it’s anything other than that; this was just the newest "hater bandwagon", a repeating phenomenon I've noticed more this last year on ES.

Were this the Redskins in the same position and the same winning record getting all this "Belicheat" and Brady/arrogance crap, I believe most of you slinging it now would be laughing it all away like it was nothing and busting on the "whiners" for being jealous.

We'd be seeing post after post minimizing any possible gain from the outlawed filming, all kinds of excuse-making, and piles of justification and defending and celebrating Brady and every damn person in the organization if we had their record. :laugh:

And perhaps less meaningful a point, but I'll mention it: as football fans to be on the verge of seeing the near-impossible accomplished, an unbelievable 19 straight wins for a dynasty in the salary-cap FA era, and to have some petty and arbitrary, or hypocritical, agenda be more motivating to you than seeing something truly historic in football also seems weird, unless you are a Giants fan or a AFCE rival.

I noted over this last year the "hater" style has been all over ES on many topics. It is truly a weak way to be.

[Spaceman Spiff]

He can still shut the **** up.

That new commercial with him cooking out with the rest of the team makes me wish that somehow he'll fall into the grill.

[Jumbo]

He can still shut the **** up.

That new commercial with him cooking out with the rest of the team makes me wish that somehow he'll fall into the grill.

I fully support you in this, Spiff :laugh:

[BAFGA]

It's going to be like this for a while.....that was the closest anyone will get for a while. Get used to it and stop complaining.

[DaveMason]

I like how anyone who roots for the Patriots to complete their perfect season accuses everyone else of being a "hater" who only hates them for being good...

...and then they follow it right up by "hating" on the '72 Dolphins. "Don't be jealous--the Patriots deserve it! UGH I HATE THOSE FREAKING DOLPHINS! I wish some other team could have a perfect record too!" Clearly, there's some envy-hate of your own going on.

The Dolphins made history. If they still want to pop corks every year, then let 'em. They deserve it, because they did it. The Patriots couldn't do it. Yeah, so we all rooted against them...so what? We don't affect the outcome of the game.

[GoIn2Shock]

Personally 18-1 is sweet justice for me. After that 52-7 drubbing eariler this season, Belicheck running up the score on the hall of famer gibbs, and Brady playing in the 4th and cussing at his line for a false start penalty while up by 40 points really started me really hating the pats, belicheck, and brady.

I would rather the Giants (which could nearly credit the skins for the turnaround) win thier 4th than the Pats. I really hope this is the beginning of the end for the Pats. While the giants have beaten us bad in the past 36-0 in 05, no recent loss to teams outside the NFCE hurt more than that 52-7 beatdown.

I don't care as much about our loss to the dolphins way back, that game could've gone either way. The way the pats went about their pursuit of perfection pissed me off. They desereved what they got and if you rooted for the pats you supported their past cheating, running up the score, and obnoxious, snooty brand of football. That is not what football should be about. Class acts like Gibbs and Dungy should be the example not Belicheck.

[Jumbo]

I like how anyone who roots for the Patriots to complete their perfect season accuses everyone else of being a "hater" who only hates them for being good...

...and then they follow it right up by "hating" on the '72 Dolphins. "Don't be jealous--the Patriots deserve it! UGH I HATE THOSE FREAKING DOLPHINS! I wish some other team could have a perfect record too!" Clearly, there's some envy-hate of your own going on.

The Dolphins made history. If they still want to pop corks every year, then let 'em. They deserve it, because they did it. The Patriots couldn't do it. Yeah, so we all rooted against them...so what? We don't affect the outcome of the game.

"Don't be jealous--the Patriots deserve it! UGH I HATE THOSE FREAKING DOLPHINS! I wish some other team could have a perfect record too!" Dude, this is impressive. You typed out two whole sentences I never wrote and then put them in quotes and then attacked it. :laugh:

But I understand what you're doing. Personally, the 72 Dolphins are an irritation with me, not a hate, and the loss of the game is painful, but I'm funny like that when my team loses a Superbowl.

You did manage to ignore discussing my main points. And your first sentence makes a claim of your own (exagerrated) but you dont expand on it. You don't present any good reasons why someone (you?) would hate on the Pats that also argue effectively against the likely hypocrisy I assigned to such a stance.

Your comment about "Dolphin hating" also missed dealing with the points I articulated that there were two very good reasons why Redskins fans who were going to root for a team at all, "should" (my view) be rooting for the Pats to win. And yet so many weren't because they put the hating for relatively thin reasons ahead of those more substantial motives (my point ). You just chose an oppositional stance with no expanded counterpoints, decided I was the hater, and defended the rights of the Dolphins to celebrate, again instead of dealing with the main topic which I had offered in detail. All of which is fine.

You also ignored my point about adding a little perspective to the matter with the fact that other teams have won more games in a row than the dolphins but they don't count because the 17th and 18th ones weren't called the Superbowl and they evetually lost one. Perfect season, yes. But it was shorter too and that's all relevant for context when you have a number of those players and their coach noted many times for rather arrogantly blowing off others' accomplishments in how they often describe theirs.

I do have to say that your last sentence is one of those weirdly, amazingly, obvious comments that always leave me a little: :doh:

[spjunkies]

Mercury takes us back to 1987

[Jumbo]

GoIn2Shock,

I can appreciate and agree with you on the running up the score on us. I am not too sure yet how deep this cheating thing is, but it's not ok. I still can't see how those matter to you more than the Redskin-fan stuff I outlined, but that's fair. I also confess that the only place I run into most of this "snooty" stuff is on ES and it often seems like sour grapes to me. So outside of Belichek seeming arrogant at times and running up the score, I haven't had any negative reactions to all the Brady, Brushi, Welker, etc interviews I've seen. So that (what I view) and all my reading is what I tend to go by. I'm very analytical and not very reactionary, but I sure may have missed some interviews or articles that make it more of a case. It still isn't likely to over-ride those other actual Redskin-related reasons I wanted them to win, though.

You did a good job of stating your position. One thing that may be a difference in the Dolphins is the investment you have when you were around during a years campaign where you get to the SB and your team loses. Just as you were so bothered by them running the score up (I was too) that you don't mind the Giants matching us in Lombardi's, there may be some Redskin fan who won't be born for 20 years who probably won't care that much about getting the score run up.

[Jumbo]

Hope Spiff doesn't mind I merged my thread with his--I worked mine to be a more developed stand alone and added some barbs to get it going but upon further review, it should just be in here as a long post. Don't wanna get an NNT.

[ArmchairRedskin]

Jumbo: the Ed Hochuli of Extremeskins

[DaveMason]

"Don't be jealous--the Patriots deserve it! UGH I HATE THOSE FREAKING DOLPHINS! I wish some other team could have a perfect record too!" Dude, this is impressive. You typed out two whole sentences I never wrote and then put them in quotes and then attacked it. :laugh:

Sorry if I wasn't clear, here. I was not trying to quote you and I certainly wasn't trying to attack you. I was making up an exaggerated/jokey example representative of many people who are rooting for the Patriots to reach perfection. Almost everybody I know who was rooting for the Patriots in the superbowl seemed to be wanting to do it to stick it to the '72 Dolphins.

My point still stands, though. You seem to be a jealous hater of the '72 Dolphins. I am a jealous hater of the 2008 Patriots. (Except I'm no longer "jealous" because the Patriots choked at the end.)

But I understand what you're doing. Personally, the 72 Dolphins are an irritation with me, not a hate, and the loss of the game is painful, but I'm funny like that when my team loses a Superbowl.

I wasn't alive for that superbowl so I guess it doesn't hurt me as much. I don't feel like I need any kind of revenge for this superbowl loss. I just think "well, that sucks...the Redskins should have won. But it's the perfect season for them. No big deal". Just like how in 35 years Giants fans wouldn't have cared even if they had lost to the Patriots in their perfect season.

You did manage to ignore discussing my main points. And your first sentence makes a claim of your own (exagerrated) but you dont expand on it. You don't present any good reasons why someone (you?) would hate on the Pats that also argue effectively against the likely hypocrisy I assigned to such a stance.

Your comment about "Dolphin hating" also missed dealing with the points I articulated that there were two very good reasons why Redskins fans who were going to root for a team at all, "should" (my view) be rooting for the Pats to win. And yet so many weren't because they put the hating for relatively thin reasons ahead of those more substantial motives (my point ). You just chose an oppositional stance with no expanded counterpoints, decided I was the hater, and defended the rights of the Dolphins to celebrate, again instead of dealing with the main topic which I had offered in detail. All of which is fine.

Again, sorry for the confusion. I did not intend to respond to your entire post, point by point. I just wanted to quickly throw in my two cents on the whole Patriots-hate vs. Dolphins-hate thing.

But if you really want my answer: the question can be flipped. Do we want the Patriots to outnumber the Redskins' superbowl trophies? Do we want Bill Bellicheck having more rings than Gibbs? I don't. I'd rather not see him get a fourth.

My love for the game and my dislike for a classless cheater of a coach far outweigh any hate I have for the Giants. I don't see how my reasons for disliking the Patriots are "relatively thin" when the primary reason you are rooting against the Giants is because of what division they happen to be in.

You also ignored my point about adding a little perspective to the matter with the fact that other teams have won more games in a row than the dolphins but they don't count because the 17th and 18th ones weren't called the Superbowl and they evetually lost one. Perfect season, yes. But it was shorter too and that's all relevant for context when you have a number of those players and their coach noted many times for rather arrogantly blowing off others' accomplishments in how they often describe theirs.

Do you really think that two more regular season games would have stopped the Dolphins' perfect season? I don't. (But, again, I wasn't alive back then...so I don't know how good/lousy they were playing down the stretch.) Either way, winning the superbowl is the most important thing a team can do. The Dolphins did it, and the Patriots didn't. The Dolphins deserve their glory because they actually did it.

I do have to say that your last sentence is one of those weirdly, amazingly, obvious comments that always leave me a little: :doh:

It's an obvious point, I'll agree. I said it because your post sounded just like you were upset that so many of us Redskins fans would root against the Patriots. I'm just trying to add some perspective. We had nothing to do with the outcome of the game. Who cares who we root for?

[DGreenistheBest]

I too will add my "STFU" to the list. It's not jealousy. I'm not a football player, so why would I be jealous of them being perfect? I'm simply sick of them being able to parlay that into fame lasting long beyond their expiration date. Whenever a team wins 4 or 5 at the start of the season, we once again have to put up with them talking about how they're so much better. I'm sick of it.

[Warhead36]

I also find them annoying as hell and can't stand them. Kind of makes me wish the Pats would have gone 19-0 just to shut those old douchebags up.

[fwo40]

Don't worry, in a few years time itself will silence them...and by that I mean death. If the Pats had won it would be like pushing the restart button on the whole thing.

I am not advocating anyone's death, or seeing it as a blessing.....just relating a fact.

[fwo40]

First, I meant what I said to Tom.

Sorry, I don't care much about the Pats, but all the popular Pat-hating here is just more ES at its numbest, IMO. As a Redskins fan who watched George Allen take an over-the-hill-gang against the odds all the way to the big one, but lose to "the perfect team" in a historic Superbowl (we'd have four )and then watch those arrogant geriatric farts crow every year since, especially lame after other teams went 18 straight without a loss, and then to NOT want to seize any opportunity to cheer for the end of that BS just means you kinda have your head up your ass as a 'skins fan IMO.

Part two , wanting the giants to now have as many Lombardi’s as us is just beyond my understanding :doh: . We were once able to boast a clear distinction there on bragging rights. So there are two big reasons real Redskins’ fans should have been pulling for the Pats before we even get to the part where the Giants are our rivals. Its weird to me that the silly "hate" trip was more motivating to 80% of the membership. :whoknows:

Especially since it's likely most of the sentiment is that lamo envy-hate. I think most of you are kidding yourself if you think it’s anything other than that; this was just the newest "hater bandwagon", a repeating phenomenon I've noticed more this last year on ES.

Were this the Redskins in the same position and the same winning record getting all this "Belicheat" and Brady/arrogance crap, I believe most of you slinging it now would be laughing it all away like it was nothing and busting on the "whiners" for being jealous.

We'd be seeing post after post minimizing any possible gain from the outlawed filming, all kinds of excuse-making, and piles of justification and defending and celebrating Brady and every damn person in the organization if we had their record. :laugh:

And perhaps less meaningful a point, but I'll mention it: as football fans to be on the verge of seeing the near-impossible accomplished, an unbelievable 19 straight wins for a dynasty in the salary-cap FA era, and to have some petty and arbitrary, or hypocritical, agenda be more motivating to you than seeing something truly historic in football also seems weird, unless you are a Giants fan or a AFCE rival.

I noted over this last year the "hater" style has been all over ES on many topics. It is truly a weak way to be.

Completely agree with all of that! Great post.

And **** the Giants i can't believe anyone would root for them. :gaintsuck

[pjfootballer]

First, I meant what I said to Tom.

Sorry, I don't care much about the Pats, but all the popular Pat-hating here is just more ES at its numbest, IMO. As a Redskins fan who watched George Allen take an over-the-hill-gang against the odds all the way to the big one, but lose to "the perfect team" in a historic Superbowl (we'd have four )and then watch those arrogant geriatric farts crow every year since, especially lame after other teams went 18 straight without a loss, and then to NOT want to seize any opportunity to cheer for the end of that BS just means you kinda have your head up your ass as a 'skins fan IMO.

Part two , wanting the giants to now have as many Lombardi’s as us is just beyond my understanding :doh: . We were once able to boast a clear distinction there on bragging rights. So there are two big reasons real Redskins’ fans should have been pulling for the Pats before we even get to the part where the Giants are our rivals. Its weird to me that the silly "hate" trip was more motivating to 80% of the membership. :whoknows:

Especially since it's likely most of the sentiment is that lamo envy-hate. I think most of you are kidding yourself if you think it’s anything other than that; this was just the newest "hater bandwagon", a repeating phenomenon I've noticed more this last year on ES.

Were this the Redskins in the same position and the same winning record getting all this "Belicheat" and Brady/arrogance crap, I believe most of you slinging it now would be laughing it all away like it was nothing and busting on the "whiners" for being jealous.

We'd be seeing post after post minimizing any possible gain from the outlawed filming, all kinds of excuse-making, and piles of justification and defending and celebrating Brady and every damn person in the organization if we had their record. :laugh:

And perhaps less meaningful a point, but I'll mention it: as football fans to be on the verge of seeing the near-impossible accomplished, an unbelievable 19 straight wins for a dynasty in the salary-cap FA era, and to have some petty and arbitrary, or hypocritical, agenda be more motivating to you than seeing something truly historic in football also seems weird, unless you are a Giants fan or a AFCE rival.

I noted over this last year the "hater" style has been all over ES on many topics. It is truly a weak way to be.

I agree Jumbo. It's an NFC East thing and I didn't want to see the Giants get their 3rd or have their fans come in here and being annoying (like they alread are) and have bragging rights. I was for the Pats all the way.

[Bishop Hammer]

I agree Jumbo. It's an NFC East thing and I didn't want to see the Giants get their 3rd or have their fans come in here and being annoying (like they alread are) and have bragging rights. I was for the Pats all the way.

IAWTP! Screw the Giants and the 72 Dolphins. I cannot believe that any Redskins fan would root for a rival team of their beloved team; especially since the Giants have been a thorn in the Skins side for so many years.

I am most horrified of the fact that there are so many people walking around in the MD/DC area wearing Giants Jerseys and Shirts. Worst of all the Giants now have as many Superbowls as the Redskins :mad: I do not see how any fans on this message board can take comfort in that?

:gaintsuck :gaintsuck :gaintsuck

[stoshuaj]

just to keep this silly discussion going....

if I recall correctly, next year the Patriot's schedule consists of them playing 9 games vs. the worst teams in the league.

So...next year, the Pats will not have run up the score on the Skins, and will have the distinct possibility of closing in on perfection again, will you still be mad at them?

[pjfootballer]

just to keep this silly discussion going....

if I recall correctly, next year the Patriot's schedule consists of them playing 9 games vs. the worst teams in the league.

So...next year, the Pats will not have run up the score on the Skins, and will have the distinct possibility of closing in on perfection again, will you still be mad at them?

Depends on if they reach the SB and if they do, who they play. If say NE and GB go, it's Pack all the way. NE or anyone besides Dallass, Philly, NYG, I root for NE. Anyone else in the NFC vs NE, the NFC.

[BleedBNG]

I can understand what Jumbo is saying. We want to see the Dolphins share their perfect season and the Giants have less Super Bowl wins than we have. Are these 2 reasons bigger (for me at least) than watching another Super bowl where the obvious team picked to win rolls over the underdog? BORING!!! The only matchup I could accept “boring” would be if they played the Cowboys. Unfortunatly, it was the Giants card that was dealt us. Did I want to see the obvious happen just to keep bragging rights over the Giants? If that’s so important than Cowboy fans have it over us no matter what we say to fire back with. If some can’t argue with other divisional fans without taking it so seriously and letting it get to them then that’s not my problem. The next Redskins SB win will be that much sweeter because the planets of the NFC East will align correctly again. I hated the Ravens more than the Pats but I rooted for the Ravens when they played the Giants in the SB. Why? Like I said, I want to see an upset. Forget the other stuff… to me it’s more enjoyable to watch.

No, I’m sick of the obvious team winning Super Bowls. It’s made the NFL seem VERY boring to me in late January-early February. I’m sick of it when it comes to SB’s lately. This upset was fun to watch, albeit the Giants. And as for the ’72 Dolphins, they would have won it no matter who it was against. Did anyone want it to be against the Cowboys? Would it have been better if the Cowboys had won the NFC Championship that year at RFK? Sure their ****y about it. Sure Mercury sounds like a loony. What else is new? Sure it reminds everyone that it was against the Redskins that they achieved it. But to me it’s just another SB loss as in the same one against the Raiders. I guess winning it 10 years later sorta evened up the score and so it’s not something I have against the perfect Dolphins. Hate to say this, but for 2 weeks prior I just didn’t think Kilmer could outdo Griese.

Anyways, the Pats getting a perfect season does not take the one the Dolphins had away. It would have taken the “Only ones” smuggness out of their grins and kept the cork in, but replacing it with “We did it by winning more games than any team” is something I’ll trade a good SB upset for any day for the next 35 years. Yeah I know, obviously any team that goes 18-0 in the future is not going to be picked as the underdogs, so when do I change my view in wanting that team to join the ‘72 Dolphins? I guess it would be a team that I don’t hate as much as the Cowboys, Eagles, Ravens, 49ers, Steelers, Raiders or Patriots. Or are we now down to where “hating” a team is now forbidden unless it’s the Giants. Please… give me a break. And if wanting the Pats to beat the Giants make some feel more of a Redskin fan, then knock yourselves out. After 41 years I’ve usually disagreed with fellow fans more than I’ve agreed and don’t need to undergo any fan meter tests to know where I stand. Or did some of you root for the Cowboys when they played the Giants in the playoffs?

[burger13]

[SoCalSkins]

Those guys are the epitome of bad sportsmanship! This is what you want today's kids learning?

No that would be the cheating Patriots and the classless Bellichick walking off early.

[Jumbo]

Wow. I expected to get eaten alive. I'm surprised so many get what I'm sayin.

[pjfootballer]

Or did some of you root for the Cowboys when they played the Giants in the playoffs?

I have a hierarchy of who to root for. I rooted for the Giants against the Bucs because I thought they had a better chance of beating Dallass. I was right. I rooted for the Giants against Dallass, but turned to Green Bay in the NFCC game. I generally root against our fellow NFC East foes no matter what. I rooted for Buffalo twice against Dallas, Pittsburgh in SB 30, the Pats in SB 39 and the Ravens in SB 34. But that's just me.