Just wondering. Anyone else think a rookie DL won't even hit the field for us?

[Seabee1973]

therres a chart out there somewhere that shows where each position depending on where they are drafted should start

I dont know how to find it but a qb taken in the top 10 should start in his first season of course not every player follows the progression

[Seabee1973]

YOU do not fill needs in the draft. Draft picks do not start for a playoff team in their rookie years.

You will needs through free agency. Getting cheap guys that will fill the role.

The draft is to get prospects for thhe future.

The Redskins made that mistake of drafting for need once with Rogers. We did not need a Merriman at the time because we had Lavar. But how good would Merriman look now?

You needs today might be different next year. Thats why you draft the best prospect. Espically when you are this high in the draft.

they also needed the year they drafted rogers a BU OL de/dt cb and safety

First rounders even low enders should start or see significant playing time their rookie season especially when drafting high

when you got a few needs you dont take the best player available unless he falls into one of those needs

How stupid would it be to take the best player availble to us if its a running back?

But I do agree free agency should be used to fill cheap role players that you wouldnt be able top get in the draft

this team has a bunch of needs and few draft picks to get them with hopefully goston with his year under the belt will be more improved and will be able to step up his game so we can concentrate on other areas

[mistertim]

that is what was said when we drafted Taylor, then the next draft with Rogers, yet we stayed put to get the obvious choice. I think it is more likely the Skins stay put to nab Jamaal Andersen

I think this is the likely outcome. Or at least I hope it is. Anderson is a monster and could start pretty soon, I believe.

[Siven]

Draft Landry of Johnson, I think we need dline help bad, but straight up, Landry and CJ are the only two players worth the 6 pick in the draft that we have need for

[AmishGangsta]

YOU do not fill needs in the draft. Draft picks do not start for a playoff team in their rookie years.

You will needs through free agency. Getting cheap guys that will fill the role.

The draft is to get prospects for thhe future.

The Redskins made that mistake of drafting for need once with Rogers. We did not need a Merriman at the time because we had Lavar. But how good would Merriman look now?

You needs today might be different next year. Thats why you draft the best prospect. Espically when you are this high in the draft.

You shouldn't try to fill needs in the draft - you're right, but, sometimes you have to.

You have to be practical. You kind of need a mix of Best player available versus your teams needs - if the best players that were available were all running backs, would you draft a RB in 3 straight rounds? No. Especially, when you already have Portis and Betts on the roster.

Also, I don't think it would be very practical for the Skins to draft another Quarterback at this present time, after spending so much time in developing Campbell - even if their is a quarterback available who is the next Payton Manning - you just don't do it, it doesn't make any sense.

Trading away future draft picks to get another receiver just throws all logic out the dore bro, even if he's the next Jerry Rice.

[SkinsFTW]

I say trade down and get the best dl you can, hopefully Okoye/Carricker is still available. Branch didn't have many tackles and has been called lazy, don't need that at all.

Man, they really ****ed up by letting Merriman go 2 years ago, or even Ware.

[Veretax]

So I remain in the camp of wanting to take a defensive lineman with our first pick. I think we need another beefy interior tackle to shore the run game up, free the ends up, free the linebackers up and allow us to play defense without bringing an 8th man in the box against the run.

You take Branch, who is the player I most covet for us, and, honestly, I can't say for sure he starts for this team. A healthy Salave'a does the dirty work necessary to make the defensive line better. No rookie will beat out Griffin. I don't know that you can say such a player would do anything but increase our depth and rotation while helping protect against injury.

If you take an end, any end, it's also very unlikely he starts. Carter is entrenched and really started to play GREAT for us down the stretch. Daniels and Wynn are seasoned, proven pros who actually do their job -- i.e. holding the line and edge against the run -- as well as any doing that job at their spot. I doubt any end we pick does anything but come in on third down for most of the year.

And I get to thinking about this because Landry likely starts the moment he hits the field, barring a holdout at the start of camp. Johnson likely starts at receiver. You take Joe Thomas if he falls and he likely starts, or, you move someone to guard to start him. While I understand why we go defensive line, I can't help but wonder if the other areas are more clearly improved by a player in this draft than would the line be for the upcoming season.

Maybe there is more than smoke to our interest in Landry, even with Omar back.

I've pretty much been saying the same thing since the season ended. Drafting a top 6 DL does not guarantee he will start or even get much playing time in our D. THe situation with Rocky has proved that.

Thats why I say let GW figure out how to plug that whole on his own, and give All Saunders Calvin Johnson. At least he'd have a chance to play early on.

[fwo40]

CJ is a great option provided you don't have to trade up to get him.

This team constantly trades its picks and mortgages its future. You've got a young offense at many key positions and the time is now to start transforming the defense that way so that you can have a competitor for years to come.

This is why you hang on to draft picks. Trading up to get CJ will cost the Redskins a ransom, and we'll be out of at least our 1st round pick in 08 to do so. Then when the next big prospect comes out people will be lamenting our lack of a pick.

It's a cycle and it has to stop somewhere. Stop it now. If CJ is there at #6 take him as the BPA, but if not don't set the organization back even farther in the draft...draw the line and take the BPA at 6 and move on.

[The Full Monty]

The Bears used 5th round pick Mark Anderson mostly on passing downs and he led all rookies in sacks.

[fansince62]

interesting post Art. the logic seems credible to me. the lone caveat is that a d-lineman who performs may get the opportnuity to start. no matter how you cut it...the obvious truth is that the d-line underperformed last season, is getting older has had health issues. we can't settle for status quo ante. I always thought, as you do, that Branch was the obvious choice. that said, I agree 100% that CJ, Landry make a lot of sense and contribute right away...this team can't continually be saving its talent for a rainy day...we have seen the results.

I'm thinkin that if the Skins are willing to sacrifice some of next season's draft.....some trade-up will eventually materialize with Cleveland.

[fansince62]

CJ is a great option provided you don't have to trade up to get him.

This team constantly trades its picks and mortgages its future. You've got a young offense at many key positions and the time is now to start transforming the defense that way so that you can have a competitor for years to come.

This is why you hang on to draft picks. Trading up to get CJ will cost the Redskins a ransom, and we'll be out of at least our 1st round pick in 08 to do so. Then when the next big prospect comes out people will be lamenting our lack of a pick.

It's a cycle and it has to stop somewhere. Stop it now. If CJ is there at #6 take him as the BPA, but if not don't set the organization back even farther in the draft...draw the line and take the BPA at 6 and move on.

unless you feel CJ is TO/RM type talent that elevates the whole offense to another elite level.

[Bizkiteer]

So I remain in the camp of wanting to take a defensive lineman with our first pick. I think we need another beefy interior tackle to shore the run game up, free the ends up, free the linebackers up and allow us to play defense without bringing an 8th man in the box against the run.

You take Branch, who is the player I most covet for us, and, honestly, I can't say for sure he starts for this team. A healthy Salave'a does the dirty work necessary to make the defensive line better. No rookie will beat out Griffin. I don't know that you can say such a player would do anything but increase our depth and rotation while helping protect against injury.

If you take an end, any end, it's also very unlikely he starts. Carter is entrenched and really started to play GREAT for us down the stretch. Daniels and Wynn are seasoned, proven pros who actually do their job -- i.e. holding the line and edge against the run -- as well as any doing that job at their spot. I doubt any end we pick does anything but come in on third down for most of the year.

And I get to thinking about this because Landry likely starts the moment he hits the field, barring a holdout at the start of camp. Johnson likely starts at receiver. You take Joe Thomas if he falls and he likely starts, or, you move someone to guard to start him. While I understand why we go defensive line, I can't help but wonder if the other areas are more clearly improved by a player in this draft than would the line be for the upcoming season.

Maybe there is more than smoke to our interest in Landry, even with Omar back.

Art,

You bring up some very valid points. I'd say that a trade down with HOU or MIA if they want to jump up past MIN to get Quinn could make that happen. Get Landry and hopefully a DL with the extra pick in the 2nd or 3rd round. Could very well happen...

[TheLongshot]

Here is one problem with drafting Landry: If we do, it means we have two safeties that we have picked in the top 10 in the draft. If they both end up being worthy of their draft status, eventually they are going to want to get paid once their rookie contract expires. This at a position which is normally not that expensive to fill normally.

And no, I don't think trading Arch is "the writing on the wall". I honestly think that Williams is probably comfortable with what he has right now.

Here's the facts: too many of our defensive linemen are on the wrong side of 30, and most of those guys have missed time because of injury in the last couple of years. We also have problems getting a pass rush with just the front 4. Last year, we had problems stopping the run. I can't see going into next year with the exact same group as being a positive. The youth movement that started last year needs to continue.

Now, considering the depth at the position, I'd be trying like hell to trade down, especially with the lack of picks.

Jason

[milliondollarslim]

i agree with you Art. i think the skins would definitely like to get more picks and draft a good d-lineman but i think if they keep #6 or draft in the top 15 or so, they are looking for a player who can start and a d-lineman likely would not. Landry or Nelson would be great.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Here is the big thing

Our D-line is aging. They are getting older by the day

You could see how quickly they wore down at points last year. Salvae and Griffin battled injuries

As much as I think we should take CJ at the 6th spot if he is there, it is also just as important to trade down and get 2 more young d-lineman in this draft

This set MIGHT work for 2007, barring injuries, but we all know they will get injured

[Chump Bailey]

Here's the facts: too many of our defensive linemen are on the wrong side of 30, and most of those guys have missed time because of injury in the last couple of years. We also have problems getting a pass rush with just the front 4. Last year, we had problems stopping the run. I can't see going into next year with the exact same group as being a positive. The youth movement that started last year needs to continue.

Now, considering the depth at the position, I'd be trying like hell to trade down, especially with the lack of picks.

Jason

Quoted for truth...:applause:

I also think that a Carriker, Okoye, Anderson or Branch will see significant playing time and be a difference maker - just a hunch on my part but I do feel it is certainly possible.

[punishmentcrew]

Well at least the good news is... We don't have to worry about stopping Tiki Barber from running all over us this year. I think him retiring is one of the best offseason moves for the Redskins ha ha.

[SkinsFTW]

Joe Salave'a hasnt ever played 16 games in one season. Joe will miss at least 1 game this year.

Say we draft Branch, do you honestly think Golston, Monstgomery or Boschetti would start instead of him?

If we drafted a DT they would get time unless they just sucked. We always have depth problems at DT thats why we went from the best defense against the run in 2004 to the worst in 2006.

[fansince62]

here's another..admittedly stretched take: suppose Gibbs really wants to win it all this upcoming season. well...do you draft d-line and, as Art notes, look at it as a development project to be weaned into the defense...or do you move up, draft CJ who supports the one person on our team who really matters..our potential Brady - JC - and make your run this season on the expectation that GW can manage one more top 12-16 season from the talent on hand? perhaps signing an accomplished but aging d-lineman vet after Jun 1?

it is one scenario. when is Joe really targeting to make a run? that is key in my book on how you manage this roster and draft.

[Art]

here's another..admittedly stretched take: suppose Gibbs really wants to win it all this upcoming season. well...do you draft d-line and, as Art notes, look at it as a development project to be weaned into the defense...or do you move up, draft CJ who supports the one person on our team who really matters..our potential Brady - JC - and make your run this season on the expectation that GW can manage one more top 12-16 season from the talent on hand? perhaps signing an accomplished but aging d-lineman vet after Jun 1?

it is one scenario. when is Joe really targeting to make a run? that is key in my book on how you manage this roster and draft.

The roster doesn't have a ton of openings if you look at things and evaluate who's under contract.

Corner is clearly three deep right now with Jimoh almost a lock.

Safety, now has five guys and already one probably won't make the active roster.

Linebacker has four guys now who are locks.

DE is four deep down to Evans and though you could lose him, it's less likely than losing Wynn if you draft a young guy. DT is already four deep with Boschetti on the outside looking in and a young guy bouncing one of last year's young guys.

Running back is very deep with four guys you are already sure are good.

Receiver has a lot of bodies as well with four or five guys you can easily see being around regardless of who is drafted -- unless it's Johnson .

The point is, similar to last year, there are not a ton of spots really obviously available for young project type players. Signing Omar, with P.P and Fox means you probably aren't going to add a project free agent or late safety to that spot because you already have last year's project there.

You might add young bodies behind Fletcher and Washington at linebacker, but you have those already at DT and even offensive line has a couple of younger guys who are developing in the system.

Similar to last year, the Redskins would be well suited to maximizing the quality of the picks they make than to simply add draft picks for bodies unlikely to really have a roster spot obviously waiting for them. A good free agent or later draft pick will find a home, but, increasingly our available spots are there for higher end rookies than lower end projects you hope develop.

In this way I am not opposed to giving picks up next year -- when we'll also have more budgeted money for free agency than this year as we spend in cycles there. Many people here are simply of the mind we trade down for more draft picks but they haven't really looked at how many spots are likely open on this team.

In all honesty the roster we'll enter the season with is almost certainly got about 50 guys already here. Some changes are still possible, obviously. Springs could go, Wynn could get cut, etc. But, looking at things now, there are only a couple of spots left for someone to come in and really make roster, much less the active roster.

[DCsportsfan53]

Here is one problem with drafting Landry: If we do, it means we have two safeties that we have picked in the top 10 in the draft. If they both end up being worthy of their draft status, eventually they are going to want to get paid once their rookie contract expires. This at a position which is normally not that expensive to fill normally.

And no, I don't think trading Arch is "the writing on the wall". I honestly think that Williams is probably comfortable with what he has right now.

Here's the facts: too many of our defensive linemen are on the wrong side of 30, and most of those guys have missed time because of injury in the last couple of years. We also have problems getting a pass rush with just the front 4. Last year, we had problems stopping the run. I can't see going into next year with the exact same group as being a positive. The youth movement that started last year needs to continue.

Now, considering the depth at the position, I'd be trying like hell to trade down, especially with the lack of picks.

Jason

I hear you and I agree, however, I just think if we go DL we'll end up reaching. I don't think there's an impact DL in the top of this draft, that's just my opinion. The talent drop off between the first round guys and the 2nd and 3rd round guys is very small this year because of the depth. That's why I think it makes sense to trade back, grab Landry, and go DL at least 3 times with the remaining picks.

[earl]

although i totally see your point, that the redskins could potentially draft someone and have them sit for the entire season (campbell, rocky) but i think this mentallity is whats wrong w/ the redskins. we as fans and perhaps even the front office want instant gratification. we want a high priced FA or a high profile rookie to play now. Its obvious we lack depth on the DLine, but to pass up on these guys because a saftey or WR can produce now is exactly why we are here drafting in the top 6. I understand Joe is old and he needs to win now, but unless he does win, if he continues to chase the "now" he might ruin our future. Brunell was him chasing the "now". trading future picks for duckett is joe chasing the now. and picking up Rogers to help with the "now" (we just lost smoot), is probably a big reason why we didn't even look at local terapin stud merriman. Don't get me wrong Landry and a 2nd or 3rd pick for depth would seem good enough, but i think NOW is the time to draft a DL.

[MumboSauce]

While Wynn and Daniels do certain things well, I wouldn't say they do thier job...pass rush is almost certainly part of the job of a DE. I agree they are seasoned vets that understand thier responsibility and excell at certain things...but they are little more than servicable now and hardly that. I know this is a well beaten horse..but the Skins need pass rush out of the front 4 like yesterday...and was responsible for much of the failure of the Defense as a whole.

But I also fall into that group that feels no D lineman we draft will make an immediate impact, and unfortunately..that is what we need. That has been pretty evident of defensive players taken in recent years with this club.

If we had a FA that would be a good stop gap until a drafted DE or DT could be brought along I'd be fine with that.

[DCsportsfan53]

although i totally see your point, that the redskins could potentially draft someone and have them sit for the entire season (campbell, rocky) but i think this mentallity is whats wrong w/ the redskins. we as fans and perhaps even the front office want instant gratification. we want a high priced FA or a high profile rookie to play now. Its obvious we lack depth on the DLine, but to pass up on these guys because a saftey or WR can produce now is exactly why we are here drafting in the top 6. I understand Joe is old and he needs to win now, but unless he does win, if he continues to chase the "now" he might ruin our future. Brunell was him chasing the "now". trading future picks for duckett is joe chasing the now. and picking up Rogers to help with the "now" (we just lost smoot), is probably a big reason why we didn't even look at local terapin stud merriman. Don't get me wrong Landry and a 2nd or 3rd pick for depth would seem good enough, but i think NOW is the time to draft a DL.

Right but my only point is I don't think the guys at the top of this draft, DL wise, are worth the high picks. There's little difference between them and the second round guys. None of the 1st DL are blue chip guys and all have question marks. That's why I think trading down a few spots and taking Landry, when we don't have a legit starting SS, and still grabbing a very talented DL in the second round (plus project DL later on) makes the most sense.

[DCsportsfan53]

While Wynn and Daniels do certain things well, I wouldn't say they do thier job...pass rush is almost certainly part of the job of a DE. I agree they are seasoned vets that understand thier responsibility and excell at certain things...but they are little more than servicable now and hardly that. I know this is a well beaten horse..but the Skins need pass rush out of the front 4 like yesterday...and was responsible for much of the failure of the Defense as a whole.

But I also fall into that group that feels no D lineman we draft will make an immediate impact, and unfortunately..that is what we need. That has been pretty evident of defensive players taken in recent years with this club.

If we had a FA that would be a good stop gap until a drafted DE or DT could be brought along I'd be fine with that.

Right but Anderson and Carricker are in the same mold as Wynn and Daniels just younger. They aren't going to be dominant pass rushers, they'll be ok-solid pass rushers and excellent run stoppers.....younger versions of what we have. Adams is the only true pass rusher but are we really going to start two 260 lb DEs and become the Colts defense?