Just wondering. Anyone else think a rookie DL won't even hit the field for us?

[Art]

So I remain in the camp of wanting to take a defensive lineman with our first pick. I think we need another beefy interior tackle to shore the run game up, free the ends up, free the linebackers up and allow us to play defense without bringing an 8th man in the box against the run.

You take Branch, who is the player I most covet for us, and, honestly, I can't say for sure he starts for this team. A healthy Salave'a does the dirty work necessary to make the defensive line better. No rookie will beat out Griffin. I don't know that you can say such a player would do anything but increase our depth and rotation while helping protect against injury.

If you take an end, any end, it's also very unlikely he starts. Carter is entrenched and really started to play GREAT for us down the stretch. Daniels and Wynn are seasoned, proven pros who actually do their job -- i.e. holding the line and edge against the run -- as well as any doing that job at their spot. I doubt any end we pick does anything but come in on third down for most of the year.

And I get to thinking about this because Landry likely starts the moment he hits the field, barring a holdout at the start of camp. Johnson likely starts at receiver. You take Joe Thomas if he falls and he likely starts, or, you move someone to guard to start him. While I understand why we go defensive line, I can't help but wonder if the other areas are more clearly improved by a player in this draft than would the line be for the upcoming season.

Maybe there is more than smoke to our interest in Landry, even with Omar back.

[terpfan]

Probably 6 or 7 games in. Just like Taylor and Rogers.

[DCsportsfan53]

I gotta agree and even though I know it's our most pressing need, I'm really starting to dislike the idea of drafting a DL in the top ten. I don't know, it just seems to me that because of the ridiculous depth at DL in this draft there are going to be reaches up high and I don't think any of these guys are top ten. I just have a hard time feeling certain about any of them.

Because of that, I'm starting to fall into the draft Landry camp. I think if Peterson or Quinn falls to us we'll have ammo to trade back a couple spots, grab Landry and then use the late first day pick gained to grab the best DL available in a stocked class. I agree with you , especially because Branch has been unimpressive and there are attitude concerns (think Bunkley) and because there's not much else in the way of that TYPE of tackle. All the other DTs are more in Griffin's mold and like you said, no rookie's taking his snaps. The DEs just don't impress me high in this draft, though I suppose a guy like Anderson or Carricker has the best chance to log real snaps this year.

[pvkeeper19]

I doubt any rookie on this defense will see much PT until the latter part of the season, Landry included. G-Dub has shown a propensity for sitting rookies (Rocky McIntosh, Carlos Rogers, etc.) for the better part of their rookie seasons. But given the choice to improve our secondary with Landry, or improve the D-line with Branch/Adams/Anderson/etc., I'm beginning to feel like the secondary would benefit more. The D-line gets its job done, generally, but isn't much to write home about. But the secondary looked like swiss cheese last season.

[Smurf85]

Probably 6 or 7 games in. Just like Taylor and Rogers.

Yep thats whats going to happen.He won't even be a impact this year.Thats why i say go after CJ.The guy is going to be a beast go after d-line next year.We have all our picks as of right now.Draft d-line all away across the board in 2008.Do what even you can to get CJ right now.

[DCsportsfan53]

I doubt any rookie on this defense will see much PT until the latter part of the season, Landry included. G-Dub has shown a propensity for sitting rookies (Rocky McIntosh, Carlos Rogers, etc.) for the better part of their rookie seasons. But given the choice to improve our secondary with Landry, or improve the D-line with Branch/Adams/Anderson/etc., I'm beginning to feel like the secondary would benefit more. The D-line gets its job done, generally, but isn't much to write home about. But the secondary looked like swiss cheese last season.

Besides, safety has grown in importance a ton in recent years and the versatility of two safeties that can hit like that, cover that much ground and have good ball skills opens unimaginable doors for what you can gameplan. But it's still all for naught if the DL gets pushed off the snap and can't stop the run. I don't know, it's a real tough call this year.

[boofMcboof]

Well, if Branch is drafted you know GW's sticking him in there for 3rd and short situations. Having Branch start isn't that big of a deal.

[method man]

So I remain in the camp of wanting to take a defensive lineman with our first pick. I think we need another beefy interior tackle to shore the run game up, free the ends up, free the linebackers up and allow us to play defense without bringing an 8th man in the box against the run.

You take Branch, who is the player I most covet for us, and, honestly, I can't say for sure he starts for this team. A healthy Salave'a does the dirty work necessary to make the defensive line better. No rookie will beat out Griffin. I don't know that you can say such a player would do anything but increase our depth and rotation while helping protect against injury.

If you take an end, any end, it's also very unlikely he starts. Carter is entrenched and really started to play GREAT for us down the stretch. Daniels and Wynn are seasoned, proven pros who actually do their job -- i.e. holding the line and edge against the run -- as well as any doing that job at their spot. I doubt any end we pick does anything but come in on third down for most of the year.

And I get to thinking about this because Landry likely starts the moment he hits the field, barring a holdout at the start of camp. Johnson likely starts at receiver. You take Joe Thomas if he falls and he likely starts, or, you move someone to guard to start him. While I understand why we go defensive line, I can't help but wonder if the other areas are more clearly improved by a player in this draft than would the line be for the upcoming season.

Maybe there is more than smoke to our interest in Landry, even with Omar back.

Golston started last year, even over a healthy Salave'a at the end of last season. I think Salave'a is almost done. It depends on who we draft. If we draft Okoye, he will sit on the bench for a year or two. If we draft Branch, although he needs to improve technique, he will start immediately. I think if we draft any DE, he will start immediately, especially if we cut Daniels or Wynn

[pvkeeper19]

Besides, safety has grown in importance a ton in recent years and the versatility of two safeties that can hit like that, cover that much ground and have good ball skills opens unimaginable doors for what you can gameplan.

My thoughts exactly. With two hard-hitting, athletic safeties in the defensive backfield, that gives Gregg Williams a lot of playcalling versatility. Both can cover, so you never know which one will drop into coverage and which will blitz, etc. I could see Williams getting pretty crative with two such impressive athletes on the field together. I think Landry would make a bigger impact sooner, but as for the long term, it's hard to tell.

[Smurf85]

Lets face it who is set on Branch or Okoye.For all we know they could be busts.With that being said anyone could be a bust.I am going to have to say the last few weeks has got me thinking.We have to try to get CJ.The guy is a monster and it sounds like he has a good head on his shoulders.He is the safest pick in the draft everyone else scares me.

[Art]

Golston started last year, even over a healthy Salave'a at the end of last season. I think Salave'a is almost done. It depends on who we draft. If we draft Okoye, he will sit on the bench for a year or two. If we draft Branch, although he needs to improve technique, he will start immediately. I think if we draft any DE, he will start immediately, especially if we cut Daniels or Wynn

I saw Salave'a nearly every week. He was never healthy last year. You could be right that he is almost done and in that case there's certainly room for a rookie tackle to emerge as a starting player for us. At DE, there's no way a rookie starts for us barring injury and there's little chance he does anything MORE than be Chris Clemons on third down.

[Coach Williams]

I think a DE in the 1st would start in Week 5.

A DT/NT wouldn't start until someone goes down......

[AmishGangsta]

Art, as much as people around here like to think of guys like Phillip Daniels and Renaldo Wynn as useless pieces of disposable junk, I think our coaches look to these guys for veteran leadership - after all, wasn't Phillip Daniels one of the selected veterans who had a sit down talk w/ Gibbs about letting the veterans work out on their own? So obviously they value the guys opinion - whether or not he's guaranteed a spot on the roster is questionable, I think he'll be given an opportunity to compete just like everyone else.

Also, Gregg Williams had a quote 2 years ago, when a reporter asked him why they didn't think about starting Arrington in at defensive end, I'm paraphrasing here because I cannot find the exact quote but he said something like this "who do you bench? A veteran leader like Renaldo Wynn? He's one of the most professional guys I've ever coached".

So obviously they value these guys more than we think. Does that mean a young defensive end won't be given a shot to compete? No. But it doesn't mean that a younger guy is guaranteed a spot on the roster, just because of where he's drafted - we've seen it time and time again with this staff, and more than likely our younger guys aren't going to be immediate impact starters right away in this defense.

Also, many people like to make the argument that, you can't spend too much money at one position - the argument I'm referring to was the one that was used against the drafting of a safety - because we had so much invested in guys like Taylor and Archuletta.

But couldn't this same argument be made against drafting a defensive end? Don't we already have a lot invested in guys like Carter, Daniels, and Wynn?

[No_Pressure]

Yes, I was thinking it as soon as I heard the Archuleta rumors getting some credible backing. I think we are going to draft LaRon Landry, but thats just me...

[SkinsWizCubsDukes]

I really hope we trade down and somehow get Landry. That guy is a monster.

[AmishGangsta]

That being said, I think we are way overdue for a young stud at defensive end. I think it's time for one

[TheLongshot]

A rookie will get his snaps on the DL, especially considering the bumps and bruises on the line in recent years.

But, drafting a DL isn't about next year, it is about the future. Fact is, even with acquiring the three linemen last year, it is probably the oldest part of this team. If anything, we need a young guy in there, even if he doesn't make an instant impact.

Also, it is hard to say that the DL is set, when they couldn't generate a consistant pass rush last year. It is hard to convince me that Daniels and Wynn are going to get any better than what they have shown us for 3 years.

Jason

[Enter Apotheosis]

I gotta agree and even though I know it's our most pressing need, I'm really starting to dislike the idea of drafting a DL in the top ten. I don't know, it just seems to me that because of the ridiculous depth at DL in this draft there are going to be reaches up high and I don't think any of these guys are top ten. I just have a hard time feeling certain about any of them.

Because of that, I'm starting to fall into the draft Landry camp. I think if Peterson or Quinn falls to us we'll have ammo to trade back a couple spots, grab Landry and then use the late first day pick gained to grab the best DL available in a stocked class. I agree with you , especially because Branch has been unimpressive and there are attitude concerns (think Bunkley) and because there's not much else in the way of that TYPE of tackle. All the other DTs are more in Griffin's mold and like you said, no rookie's taking his snaps. The DEs just don't impress me high in this draft, though I suppose a guy like Anderson or Carricker has the best chance to log real snaps this year.

Thats more or less my stance as well. I like the dline depth in the draft this year... so it would almost make sense to fortify our secondary in a big way and get someone on the line who could slowly work his way into the starting lineup. Trading down to #12 and picking up #44 would be ideal for that kinda thing.

[Art]

AG, you're right.

Daniels is, right now, a better all around player than any rookie defensive end in this draft. Period. He's big, strong and does his job in an impeccable fashion. Wynn is starting to slow down and probably shouldn't be a full-time starter any longer barring injury, but, with Carter owning the one side, and Daniels, healthy clearly being the player on the other, a defensive end only makes sense for a year or two from now, not now.

I'm big on grooming guys so I understand the concept, but, if you believe we're trying to field the best possible team THIS season, then you probably go a different direction in the draft, should you be going with the need proposition. I would be thrilled if we drafted a defensive end or tackle in this draft. I just see their positions far more closed by healthy pros ahead of them than some other spots on the roster.

Guard, tight end, No. 2 receiver, safety and probably weakside linebacker are all areas more immediately ripe for a successful draft pick to step into right away. Even there, you'd like to think Marshall returning to his natural position and Rocky can hold that spot down. You'd like to believe Wade will convert easily to guard and hold it down. You'd like to think Lloyd would perhaps rebound and perform well.

I'm going to have to start looking more seriously at Landry than I expected is all I'm saying .

[Never21Forgotten36]

Yeah, I am thinking we either trade down for Landry and add more picks, or trade up for Johnson and sacrifice a high pick next year because the guy will be worth it. Either scenario is ok with me.

[DCsportsfan53]

AG, you're right.

Daniels is, right now, a better all around player than any rookie defensive end in this draft. Period. He's big, strong and does his job in an impeccable fashion. Wynn is starting to slow down and probably shouldn't be a full-time starter any longer barring injury, but, with Carter owning the one side, and Daniels, healthy clearly being the player on the other, a defensive end only makes sense for a year or two from now, not now.

I'm big on grooming guys so I understand the concept, but, if you believe we're trying to field the best possible team THIS season, then you probably go a different direction in the draft, should you be going with the need proposition. I would be thrilled if we drafted a defensive end or tackle in this draft. I just see their positions far more closed by healthy pros ahead of them than some other spots on the roster.

Guard, tight end, No. 2 receiver, safety and probably weakside linebacker are all areas more immediately ripe for a successful draft pick to step into right away. Even there, you'd like to think Marshall returning to his natural position and Rocky can hold that spot down. You'd like to believe Wade will convert easily to guard and hold it down. You'd like to think Lloyd would perhaps rebound and perform well.

I'm going to have to start looking more seriously at Landry than I expected is all I'm saying .

Exactly where I was going with it. With a pick that high, you expect a guy to come in and make an immediate impact. That's just not likely to happen, barring injury, with the veterans we have on the DL. That's why I think, regardless of it it's Landry or someone else, we trade down, grab a guy that can hely right away, and grab your DL to groom with the extra pick. Between Golston, Montgomery and Salave'a, I believe someone there can step up and help Griffin, Wynn and Daniels can man the opposite to Carter. Bring a guy along there and get a guy who can help right away, like a WR, S, TE or LB.

[DCsportsfan53]

Yeah, I am thinking we either trade down for Landry and add more picks, or trade up for Johnson and sacrifice a high pick next year because the guy will be worth it. Either scenario is ok with me.

I'm definitely not as sold on that. Don't get me wrong, there's no player I'd rather have in the draft and I think he's CLEARLY the best player in this draft but I just think we'd have to give up too much. I don't think we can afford to give up half of next years draft.

[Never21Forgotten36]

I'm definitely not as sold on that. Don't get me wrong, there's no player I'd rather have in the draft and I think he's CLEARLY the best player in this draft but I just think we'd have to give up too much. I don't think we can afford to give up half of next years draft.

You dont think this years 1st, and next season's 1st or 2nd and a late round pick will do the trick? I don't know much about the value of draft picks (kind of like the front office, hahaha) but that sounds pretty good to me? What do you think it would take to move up to 4 and get CJ, assuming Oakland doesnt pick him?

[bschurm]

Given recent history, I too am uncertain whether any defender chosen in the draft will start.

With that said, I stated in another thread I truly believe trading down for more picks is the way to go and your question as to whether a D-Lineman will start next year supports that idea.

So what are we looking for? Are any of these lineman the next coming of Dexter Manley, Daryl Grant, Dave Butz or Charles Mann? Or are we looking at another Tracy Rocker with whomever we choose?

We can not know the answers to these questions yet. There are 5 or 6 D-linemen going in the first round. With that many coming out, I truly believe it is a crap shoot with any one of them. So why not trade down and pick up someone later in the first, Carriker or even wait and pick up Tank? This would give us the opportunity to pick up more picks and develop a player to fit the mold since they probably won't start to begin with

I would love to see Branch come to DC and become the next Dave Butz or Anderson come in and be dominant like Dexter, but I believe we can get more out of this draft especially if someone big falls into our lap.

Trade down, get more picks, one #6 pick just doesn't seem like the move we should make if we plan to take a defensive lineman.

[Never21Forgotten36]

You dont think this years 1st, and next season's 1st or 2nd and a late round pick will do the trick? I don't know much about the value of draft picks (kind of like the front office, hahaha) but that sounds pretty good to me? What do you think it would take to move up to 4 and get CJ, assuming Oakland doesnt pick him?

Another thing I forgot to mention, is that today Michael Smith was kind of beating around the bush that Tampa might even be leaning towards not drafting Johnson at 4. If by some snowball's chance in hell he falls to us at 6, do you take him? Or do you accumulate an ungodly amount of draft picks from some team wanting to trade up and get him at 6?