The Figure Four - ALL Things ECW-WWF-NJPW-TNA-ROH-AEW

[Fergasun]

I can't follow the new WWE...been watching it on and off since "Son of Fergasun" is getting into it.  All the new generation of wrestlers come off as "non-playable characters".  Roman Reigns is the worst at this.  I don't understand the stables... The Judgement Day and Bloodline.  Are there no superheels? 

 

We watched a bit of Survivor Series. The main event seemed to do nothing about moving any storylines save "Randy Orton is back!!!!"  How come Roman Reigns and Jimmy Uso weren't at Survivor Series?  

 

Santos Escobar vs. Dragon Lee ending felt off to me. Lee nailed him with a sit down powerbomb for a 2 count and the it felt like 20 seconds later Escobar used his finisher and pinned him. 

 

[The Evil Genius]

Reigns barely wrestles anymore. I suspect when they gave Lesnar the title, the precedent was set that defending the title only has to happen a few times a year.

 

It's a ****ing joke if you ask me. But people eat that **** up. 

Edited November 27, 2023 by The Evil Genius

[@DCGoldPants]

2 hours ago, The Evil Genius said:

Reigns barely wrestles anymore. I suspect when they gave Lesnar the title, the precedent was set that defending the title only has to happen a few times a year.

 

It's a ****ing joke if you ask me. But people eat that **** up. 

 

amen. It's dumb. 

[justice98]

3 hours ago, The Evil Genius said:

Reigns barely wrestles anymore. I suspect when they gave Lesnar the title, the precedent was set that defending the title only has to happen a few times a year.

 

It's a ****ing joke if you ask me. But people eat that **** up. 

 

I'm fine with the not wrestling part, to a degree.  It should be defended on PPV, especially the big ones. But you cant be healthy and disappear off TV for months at a time. 

 

But having said that, the world champion should be special.  But over the years, we've gotten used to the title being on TV every week.  It should be meaningful when they show up rather than perfunctory.  

 

I feel like Lesbar had that bargaining power, I'm not sure why they gave Reigns such a sweetheart deal.  What's he gonna do if not WWE?

Edited November 27, 2023 by justice98

[justice98]

On 11/26/2023 at 10:30 AM, The Evil Genius said:

Seth Rollins/CM Punk thing is keyfabe, right? 

 

It's totally a work.  Seth's a pro, not a maniac. It's setting up a program between the two.  Dont be surprised if the night 1 Mania main event is Seth vs Punk for the title.  

[The Evil Genius]

 

[@DCGoldPants]

I just saw a video of Randy Orton from last night. Dude is huge, right? Like before he got hurt, he wasn't this jacked.

[Captain Wiggles]

Spoilers 🤣

 

I'm only just now getting to the early days of The Bodydonnas in the wwf. Rough times the mid 90s were. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Damn, Sunny had a big fall from grace.  

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

23 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

Damn, Sunny had a big fall from grace.  

I feel bad for whatever she landed on.

[The Evil Genius]

1 hour ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

Damn, Sunny had a big fall from grace.  

 

Her and Chris Candido did a lot of heroin (allegedly). 

[justice98]

18 hours ago, @DCGoldPants said:

I just saw a video of Randy Orton from last night. Dude is huge, right? Like before he got hurt, he wasn't this jacked.

 

They often come back from long injuries looking jacked.  They've done nothing but rehab and work out for a year.  I remember when Rollins came back from his ACL, he was jacked too.  Ambrose/Moxley did the same thing.  

[Forehead]

Alright, I suppose it is time for me to update, it has now been about three months since I started introducing my kid to WWE, and he's taken to it and looks forward to Raw/Smackdown every week.  We even shelled out for the Black Friday deal for Pea**** or whatever so we can watch the Pay Per Views.

 

For reference, I started watching wrestling sparingly in the mid-late 80's/early 90's and then full on in 1993.  Royal Rumble 1993 was my first PPV.  I watched wrestling pretty religiously through maybe 2004 - 2005, then only really kept up with it when meeting friends to do things like gamble on the Royal Rumble (which is a thing and awesome) or other pay per views.  I stopped watching entirely once I had kids (2009) and only kept up sparingly.  So while I was aware of who many of the big names are, I'm not necessarily aware of who feuded with who three years ago.  I've also never watched AEW or next so I don't have a lot of history to work with.  That being said, my general obserations.

 

1. It has been really fun to watch this as an adult and paying less attention to good/evil and more to who is getting reactions.  I was explaining to my son that you can often tell who is going to get a push for more screen time and or a chance with the belt based on this.  He told me I was boring him, but it sunk in because during the Ivar-Bronson Reed match, when you could hear a pin drop, he mentioned it.  And yeah, good chance neither guy is on the roster in six months, but a weasel like Dominik Mysterio will be around for as long as people are willing to pay money to watch him get hit butt kicked.

 

2. I am beyond impressed at how far women's wrestling has come from the bra-and-panties stuff of the mid 90's.  There is serious athleticism now.  That aside though, I'm probably looking at this too much through Jim Cornette style old school booking glasses, but I see no one who is worth taking the belt off Rhea Ripley to give a push.  I generally look for someone who has a good look, can wrestle well, can work the crowd.  Ripley has all of it and none of her challengers do.  Raquel Rodriguez is strong and that's it.  Nia Jax is large but can't really wrestle.  Zoey Stark is boring.  I love watching some of the Asian wrestlers work like Asuka and Io Sky, but as much as I hate to say it, their inability to really communicate with an audience and needing a mouthpiece is going to hold them back, it always has historically.  Bayley has everything, but they've had her lose most of the time recently so she has no momentum.  I'm wondering what the long term plans are for the woman who just stands around in a trance.  The one who has really stood out to me is Chelsea Green (side note, teenager Forehead would like to state for the record that Chelsea Green is absolutely the #1 seed right now) because she can work the audience, she can wrestle, and she's got a look.  I'm just afraid her current "mean girl/head cheerleader" gimmick makes her an unserious challenger right now.  Maybe they'll be boring and just give it to Charlotte Flair again.  Maybe Bianca Belair?  I wouldn't mind if Rhea had the belt for a long time though.  Speaking of...

 

3. I'm not bothered by Reigns having the belt forever, I actually like the fact that a title change might mean something.  I can't be the only one who rolled my eyes during "hardcore" championship matches where the belt would change hands five times in 10 minutes and there were title reigns that lasted 15 seconds.  I do not like the fact that he isn't on TV more, and I'm not sure he's the guy I would have picked for it, but I also missed pretty much the entire Bloodline thing so I have no idea what has gone into the last three years.

 

3A.  Paul Heyman is a national treasure.

 

4. My kids favorite wrestler so far is LA Knight.  I think he just likes yelling "yeah" a bunch.  I'm not a fan, reminds me too much of Stone Cold Steve Austin and the "what" phase which I hated.  I also can't believe that fans still yell "what" occasionally.  Just a reminder of how huge Stone Cold was.

 

5. Last one for now, I might have others.  These are the wrestlers that have stood out in the few months we've been watching, who I could see getting pushed eventually.

 

- Cody Rhodes...already a top dog I know, but I think it's pretty clear he'll eventually have the top belt.  Side note, which belt is the top belt, Reigns' or Rollins'?

 

- Ludwig Kaiser from Imperium.  This guy is absolutely fantastic.  His facial expressions of disdain and not wanting people to touch him, combined with very solid technical wrestling ability, they are top notch.  I assume Imperium will spilt eventually, and someone will have to be the good guy.  If it is him, I could see him challenging Gunther at some point.  Gunther is boring as hell.  Kaiser would be great.

 

- Chelsea Green (see above, Lord have mercy.  Requires a second mention.  But that aside, she's got the look, ability, and connection with the audience)

 

- The taller and more athletic Creed brother.  I actually knew who he was because I watch a lot of college wrestling.  That tag team is going to have to split eventually.  You can already tell this guy is the Shawn Michaels of the team.

 

- That tag team (Pretty Deadly?) that wears the cutoff shirts and one was pushing the other in a wheelchair recently.  They're hilarious, they bump well for their opponents.  They have all the makings of one of those annoying heel tag teams that keeps the belts through luck, though I could easily see them becoming really popular babyfaces.

 

- Austin Theory/Grayson Waller, for the same reasons as Dominic Mysterio.  They both know how to work all aspects of the business.

 

- Kevin Owens on commentary only.

 

Wrestlers I have been not impressed with.

 

- Sami Zayn.  I know he's popular but all I see is a really eager version of Daniel Bryan.  He's a try-hard who gets really into his promos.  He hates the Judgement Day so much he's about to cry, but WILL NEVER STOP FIGHTING.  Yawn, pass.

 

- Becky Lynch.  I've missed a significant part of her career but I'm aware she's accomplished a lot, headlined a Wrestlemania, all that.  In the ring, she is clearly not as skilled in her athletic movements, etc. as many of the other women.

 

- Ricochet/Chiampa/Gargano/Dragon Lee types.  These guys would have been great in the mid 90's and stood out.  Now, it seems like everybody does the 450 spinning whatever and nothing else stands out about any of these people.  In this era where finishing moves seem to require multiple tries to put someone away, this doesn't work as well.

 

- The entire Alpha Academy.  If I never see any of them on my screen again, it will still be too soon.

 

Oh and one las thing.  As someone who has now watched tons of tapes from the 70's and 80's, I am delighted that they've brought back the "Asian wrestlers who spit mist" gimmick. I miss the Great Muta.

 

 

 

 

[justice98]

There's no way on earth the top belt is Rollins' belt.  They try, but Reigns is unquestionably the top dog and Rollins is definitively behind him.  I dont even think it's 1 and 1A, it's 1 and 2.  And hell, Cody is probably the true #2, he just doesn't have the belt. And when he gets a belt, he'll take Roman's.

 

Spitting of mist has to be the GOAT cultural wrestling tactic.  And I'm fine culturally stereotyping that only Japanese people know how to spit mist. lol  Nobody else can do it.  And they have a special formula that turns it to acid when it comes into contact with the human face.  

 

Becky Lynch is the best in the business at elevating and putting over the talent she works with.  

 

The Creed Bros have a ceiling in my opinion, because they're bland AF as characters. Their gimmick/characters have to be more than being good athletes. They can work their butt off, but they need a good manager or a Chad Gable-esque front man that can talk for them and get them over.

 

LA Knight is my guy.  His credit is good with me. I find him entertaining.  Plus he's a Maryland boy.  And the whole copying Stone Cold and the Rock I could not care less about.  He just needs a new finisher.  The BFT is terrible.

 

And I dig Tozawa.  More Tozawa on my TV screen.  He's hilarious to me.  

 

I'm kinda over Gunther.  I'm not a fan of these extra long title reigns trying to break records and get them modernized.  After a while, it takes any suspense away from the matches.  There's zero tension in these IC title matches.  And I'm not against strong, dominant champions, maybe it's more they dont know how to book strong challengers against them. 

Edited November 30, 2023 by justice98

[@DCGoldPants]

I like this. 

 

- I'm tired of guys going down to NXT to get into feuds. Let the young talent develop. 

 

- Chelsea Green is A+

 

- I like there seem to be more factions, but I think they ****ed up who is where. Should have added Shotzi to Judgement Day as a heel. Raquel to LWO. Didn't like breaking up the Usos. 

 

- Logan Paul getting a belt in Saudi Arabia tracks. Having him beat Mystero in the US would have flopped. 

 

- Theory and Waller are excellent heels. 

 

- Need more heels that get real heat. Not ones who are booed for being boring.

[The Evil Genius]

From what people claim, Chad Gable is about 20x better technically than most of the WWE roster. His schtick in Alpha Academy wears thin but I expect him to finally find a niche and become a major player if HHH allows it. 

 

That said, WWE really needs to poach MJF from AEW. He could easily rule the WWE as a face or heel if they allowed him. 

[justice98]

17 hours ago, @DCGoldPants said:

I like this. 

 

- I'm tired of guys going down to NXT to get into feuds. Let the young talent develop. 

 

 

 

Helping their development is exactly what they're doing.  Becky Lynch's run as NXT champion was all about developing Tiffany Stratton and Lyra Valkyria.  They got to work with the best and Stratton, in particular, showed out.  Then she helped make Valkyria by putting her over for the title.  You wanna get better, work with the best.  

 

These people get to work with and train with main roster vets. That's a benefit to them.  Instead of working green, inexperienced people, see how you stack up against vets.

[@DCGoldPants]

24 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

Helping their development is exactly what they're doing.  Becky Lynch's run as NXT champion was all about developing Tiffany Stratton and Lyra Valkyria.  They got to work with the best and Stratton, in particular, showed out.  Then she helped make Valkyria by putting her over for the title.  You wanna get better, work with the best.  

 

These people get to work with and train with main roster vets. That's a benefit to them.  Instead of working green, inexperienced people, see how you stack up against vets.

 

Don't think they needed it. What is the deal with Corbin? Dom Mystero is going down to help them develop? They have more than enough really talented people there who the fans are into. 

[The Evil Genius]

I dont think Baron Corbin has been used properly by the WWE. He's legit a monster in the ring and should be billed as such. 6'8" and close to 300..ex nfl lineman..it's a shame he never caught on with the fans for too long. 

[ixcuincle]

 

[Forehead]

While my son and I enjoy WWE, my daughter isn't a fan and ignores it as best she can.  Boy does she not like Jey Uso.  She especially doesn't like it when my son and I talk like him.  "Yeet" and being "turnt up" aren't cool anymore, probably even less so when mid-40's Dad is yelling it at you.

[justice98]

This yeet stuff is dumb.  But he got it over, so props on Jey.  

[The Evil Genius]

I remember him originally at Stunning Steve Austin but I had forgotten that Paul Bearer (Percy Pringle at the time) was his manager. 

 

Also..never made the connection but is Stone Colds finisher named the stunner because of his former name? I know other wrestlers used the move before but they had different names for it, right? 

 

Also, Austin is only one still alive from this match. 😥

 

 

Edited January 6 by The Evil Genius

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

As I am watching through old wrestling shows chronologically, I have come to a point in the storyline where Kane is being accused of raping a dead body.

[Captain Wiggles]

6 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

As I am watching through old wrestling shows chronologically, I have come to a point in the storyline where Kane is being accused of raping a dead body.

 

I'm watching around the time he debuted in the wwf as Isaac Yankem, DDS. 🤣

 

It's uh... rough.