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The Figure Four - ALL Things ECW-WWF-NJPW-TNA-ROH-AEW

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Cena could be mad that they humilated him by having him be the only MITB winner not to be able to win a title.

Whatever. All the things he have been given, he should be able to et wronged once in a while. I am pretty sure that he gave them his blessings any way.

I am not all mad at him, I am pissed at creative too.

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Are todays wrestlers big babies? You mean to tell me Cena would get mad because they didn't give him the title? He does know all of this is scripted, doesn't he?

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Just read the Smackdown spoilers...

So, yah... Spoiler alert...

What the heck are they doing with the Intercontinental title? Bo Dallas beating Wade Barrett to get a little bit of a rub is one thing... But then having Orton beat Barrett to set up a losing streak for the champion is absurd. Barrett isn't even established yet. They're making the IC Title look real lame.

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Champions lose all the time these days. Its very aggrivating.

And yeah, the IC champ has lost his last two matches. Every time you hear "non-title" you can guarantee that the champ is going to lose.

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Champions lose all the time these days. Its very aggrivating.

And yeah, the IC champ has lost his last two matches. Every time you hear "non-title" you can guarantee that the champ is going to lose.

Even if it's a title match you can guarantee the champ has a GOOD chance of losing/being DQ'ed... Usually by interference/countout.

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Even if it's a title match you can guarantee the champ has a GOOD chance of losing/being DQ'ed... Usually by interference/countout.

Vince Russo's legacy in wrestling is implanting the idea that winning and losing don't matter.

It's obvious that I'm an old NWA guy and that I'm a million years old. But there used to be this idea in wrestling that you only got paid if you won. Or that you got paid more. Because there was some kind of athletic competition going on. Now, everyone is just an actor in a show.

Cena's failure to sell any injury or beating drives me crazy, because he might as well yell "And....scene...." at the end of his matches.

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A pretty good HOF class so far. Foley, Backlund, Stratus, and now Bruno. My boy and I Have been rooting for Demolition to be inducted this year too, but those four already make the ticket worth while.

Cesaro and Barret both lost again last night. Not sure why they even have belts anymore.....

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Cesaro and Barret both lost again last night. Not sure why they even have belts anymore.....

I haven't watched the whole thing yet. DVR'ed the last hour. Fast forwarded through the first two...

It's crazy that they keep having them lose. And why put Cesaro in a match with Ryback? It doesn't even make sense.

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I had no idea he wasn't in...

He hates Vince McMahon and has since the 80s. He's been asked to attend the ceremony and every year, he has turned them down.

I don't know what HHH did to get him to change his mind this time, but we really should consider sending HHH to Palestine right now.

The two big missing names from the HOF have been Bruno and Savage. I assume at some point, they will put Savage in - though I guess Lanny Poffo will have some say in that.

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A pretty good HOF class so far. Foley, Backlund, Stratus, and now Bruno.

It's sort of unfortunate that Backlund has to go in this year. That guy is always going to be overshadowed by the long-reigning champ before him and the long-reigning champ after him. He's like the Larry Holmes of WWWF/WWF/WWE champions. Having Bruno go in with him really sort of diminishes him.

Backlund never gets any credit anyway, but he played a character that was pretty original and that I don't think has ever really been attempted before or since. He was the absolute example of the squeaky-clean, white bread babyface. Except he has kind of a prick. There's a pretty good match between him and a heel Hogan on Youtube that is interesting for a number of reasons.

1. Even a green heel Hogan had chemistry coming out of every pore.

2. Hogan wins by countout because Backlund is too beat up to get back into the ring, which was a strange way for a babyface champ to lose.

3. Backlund acts like a total douche before and after the match, doing this weird act that is just this side of "Bro...hold me back....I mean it, bro....hold me back."

---------- Post added February-5th-2013 at 02:39 PM ----------

Yeah I remember him strongly denouncing the "New Era" of wrestling, in numerous interviews years ago. Always came off really bitter.

The only thing I thing Bruno has ever been really bitter about is how he thinks Vince ruined his relationship with his son David.

I lived in Pittsburgh for a few years and Bruno is an icon there. He was also still pretty visible in the sense that everyone in his neighborhood was used to see the sixty-something, really muscular guy running every day. He's not bitter in the way most old wrestlers are. He has money. He was married to the same woman forever. He lived in the same house forever. He had grandkids. He could go into a local restaurant and have people get excited without bugging him. He was (and probably still is) in awesome physical shape.

He had an issue with his oldest son though. David was a mediocre wrestler who Vince signed before the first Wrestlemania. Bruno was a (bad) commentator then and didn't want David to wrestle. He also did not want to wrestle himself. He - again - was unlike other wrestlers in that when he retired, he wanted to retire. Vince kept convincing him to tag with David and get involved in storylines, promising that it would be good for David's career. It wasn't good for David's career, but it was awesome for Vince who could have Bruno sell out the traditional northeast towns (New York, Boston, Philly, Pittsburgh) while Hogan tried to conquer the world. Eventually, everyone figured out that David couldn't draw and Bruno didn't want to work any more. So, David got let go and his wrestling career more or less ended. And David - for whatever reason - blamed Bruno (who does not seem to be the cuddliest dad in the world. The dude lived in a cave in Italy for a few years while hiding from the Nazis after all).

So, Bruno was pissed at Vince about that. Then the steroids and drugs and sex scandals happened. Bruno is really old school so if you asked him about drugs or sex or steroids, he would tell you how awful they are and how Vince was a disgrace for letting it all happen.

The only thing that Bruno seems truly foolish about is his insistence that wrestling was "real" when he did it. But there's a few of the older guys who just can't let kayfabe go.

(There is actually a funny youtube clip of Vince and Bruno calling a match and joking about a woman in the audience named "Kay Faye." I can't access youtube at work so I can't post it).

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I would never dream of calling Vince or the WWE hyprocrites, but for a company that wanted to go PG to appeal to children and has an anti-bullying campaign...Many of the faces are bullies. Making fun of fat Paul Hayman. If your product is for children and you want to take an anti-bullying stance, you can't call people Twinkie Tits (and have the crowd chant it)....

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I would never dream of calling Vince or the WWE hyprocrites, but for a company that wanted to go PG to appeal to children and has an anti-bullying campaign...Many of the faces are bullies. Making fun of fat Paul Hayman. If your product is for children and you want to take an anti-bullying stance, you can't call people Twinkie Tits (and have the crowd chant it)....

Fair point.

Yeah I remember him strongly denouncing the "New Era" of wrestling, in numerous interviews years ago. Always came off really bitter.

I think he was more concerned than bitter, especially after I heard him in this video.

Link:http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2013/02/04/bruno-sammartino-to-join-wwe-hall-of-fame/

PITTSBURGH (KDKA) — Legendary wrestler and entertainer Bruno Sammartino drew sellout crowds to Madison Square Garden, in the ’60s and ’70s.

Fans came to see the man who reigned 11 years as a pro wrestling champion.

Now 77, the North Hills man has slowed down a little.

“I train six days a week,” he said. “I do five miles of road work, three days a week, and the other three days I pump iron.”

He built muscle the hard way, setting a world bench press record in 1959. Years later, he’s a role model for those who followed.

But Sammartino repeatedly turned down offers to be inducted in the World Wrestling Entertainment Hall of Fame.

“So much steroids and unfortunately other drugs involved in that,” he said. “And I was very appalled by that. I hated seeing the game that I had been in for all those years come down to that. We started having some deaths and so forth, reported due to these drugs.”

He challenged the industry to come clean. WWE responded, hiring Pittsburgh neurosurgeon Joseph Maroon as its medical director.

“And they do very strict drug testing,” Sammartino says. “And just from watching it now, I can see that these guys are not on drugs.”

After years of a toiled relationship between Sammartino and the wrestling entertainment giant, the two sides have put aside their differences. On Monday, Sammartino finally agreed to be inducted

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My thoughts on WWE

The Rock needs to retain his title at Wrestlemania. But Ziggler needs to cash in Money in the Bank and win the WWE title. Having Ziggler win the World title seems like a waste of a great moment. People complain about Ziggler not getting his moment but if it was being saved for this it would be worth it.

I love having Rock and Brock back. These 2 get the crowds going more so than any other wrestlers.

I think the Shield is great. I can see all 3 superstars being WWE Champion one day.

I think The Great Khali segments are a complete waste of time.

I actually think Brodus has potential but they have to make some changes. I think hes decent for a big guy but crowds are starting to get bored with him. I think you can keep the funkasaurus gimmick but you need to start making him more serious. Have him walk to the ring at times not dancing. Have the dactyls dancing, have him look at them like cut that crap out and have them look scared.

I think CM Punk needs his old music back and he needs to be more edgy. I think he needs to do another shoot. Have him go off on 5-8 "legends" ending with Steve Austin. Get Stone Cold and have him wrestle Punk at Summerslam.

Bring back Halloween Havoc. Taker, Kane, Lesnar in a triple threat or Lesnar, Kane hell in a cell.

Bring back the Blue Bars steel cage. Even though the bars dont have the give like the fence does it still is awesome and nostalgic. Id put Sheamus and Triple H in it.

Stop investing into Cody Rhodes. He is what he is. I know internet wrestling fans love him but he does not have the size or mic skills to be taken seriously.

Pillage TNA's roster. TNA is horrible. They still dont have entrance music right. They do have a ton of talent. James Storm, Samoa Joe (who has basically wasted his career their), The Dudley Boys and Sting. Yes Sting.

I dont love Sting. Love his look and his entrance but seeing Sting repell with a bat into a WWE ring would be great.

Make up with Kurt. Get his ass back atleast for his farewell tour. If his entrance music hits in a WWE arena people will do back flips.

Keep investing into new talent. Id start showing NXT or Florida Championship Wrestling segements on Raw. (Select ones) Why not have the NXT champion (not sure if their is one) vs. the WWE champion on the main event of Raw.

Have RAW start off big. Every single week. No more lame ass tag team matches. No more divas to start off RAW.

Lose Booker T. Keep Vickie.

Find a new GM. Like a retired Kurt Angle or someone the wrestling communtiy respects. Booker is

---------- Post added February-5th-2013 at 09:41 PM ----------

Booker is eh at best.

Trim the titles. Have WWE championship, Intercontinental, Tag and Womens championship. Not Divas championship. To many titles makes them all meaningless. I really could careless about World and United States Championships.

Do the unpredictable. Let a wrestler no one would expect win the Royal Rumble. I remember when Vince won and people were shocked.

Ryback is a beast. Let him grow a mohawk. The Goldberg references are mainly because he bald. Also because he murders everyone but mainly because hes bald.

If you are ever going to turn Cena heel. Do it the biggest F'ing way possible. Go all in. Have him hit the F U on a steel chair to the Undertaker. Have him slide out the chair before the referee awakes from being knocked out and slow count 1-2-3.

Lose the beard Miz. It doesnt suit you nor does being a face. Del Rio needs to turn heel aswell. These 2 guys are career heels and actually would make a decent tag team.

Randy Orton needs repackaging or a character change. Do a storyline where he admits he is losing the passion for wrestling. The fans just dont make him feel anything anymore. Have him down in the dumps maybe he also is having issues in his home life. Then enter Ric Flair to try to ignite him again. Have him show him a legend killer highlight package. Perhaps Ric Flair smacks him in the face and tells him that he has the tools to be the best of all time but is squandering it. Have Randy Orton leave dejected. Play out this story for months. Have him lose matches and not seem phased. Then have Brock walk past him in the back and laugh as hes walking by. Have Randy snap and beat the absolute crap out of him. Have Randy bring him to the ring hit the RKO (which hasnt been done in months.)

After he hits it he can grab the mic and say. He has been depressed because he hasnt been on the right path and realizes now he is only happy if he is WWE Champion.

---------- Post added February-5th-2013 at 09:41 PM ----------

---------- Post added February-5th-2013 at 09:59 PM ----------

Do the most chaotic RAW ever. Start off the show with someone doing a shoot and them having to cut to break. Then when they get back have the announcers apologize. Have Michael Cole stop apologizing and respond to the person in his ear. "No Im not going to say that. Because its not true." Have him leave the arena and them have to cut to commercial again. When they get back have Vinces music hit and have him on commentary for the rest of the night.

During the broadcast have Mcmahon apologize and tell the fans that this type of behavior will not be tolerated. Have a high profile match about to start but have the wrestlers not want to wrestle. Have Mcmahon get in the ring and order them out. One of them can grab a mic and say "Enough of this Vince. The superstars are fed up with this same garbage night in and night out. Half the wrestlers in the back that deserve title shots dont get them. The backstage politics have gotten out of control." Have Vince demand security to come out and have Vince shut it down and literally have RAW end.

The next week Vince could start bringing in the replacements. NXT wrestlers, Indie wrestlers and hand picked TNA wrestlers. Triple H could insert himself at some point and go to bat for the Wrestlers. The following PPV could be the replacements vs. reg superstars.

Sign Batista back. Im not a huge fan of his but he is pretty good and defenitly would have a great spot. He could headline vs. Brock in a lions den match or a MMA style fight.

To make the tag division more fun I would have a tag tournament. Any newly formed Tag Team can join. It could be a 32 team tournament that lasts up to 2 months. You could have Cena team up with Punk. It would be interesting who gets snubbed in the Shield. Maybe Batista could team with Reigns. They would be a nasty tag team. This would also make the tag team championship relevant and would have tons of interesting storylines. Rock and Sock? New Age Outlaws? The Dudley Boyz? Kane and Taker? Sheamus and Big Show? Brodus Clay and Ryback?

Edited by HRNY4ZRNY

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They need to have Rybeck win the United States Championship. He would then demand more belts. He could go on a rampage and win the Intercontinental belt as well. That would unite those championships.He could team with Sheamus to win the tag team championship as well. This could lead to a greater feud with the shield. Ric Flair could for a group with the Miz, Rybeck and Sheamus and Randy Orton to go after the shield and CM Punk. Stone Cold Steve Austin could take over as Raw GM and special enforcer.

Edited by Gallen5862

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Agreed. Have Ryback win something that isn't a top title 1st. Feels like they skipped that step for a lot of guys. Now you have so many who've been world champs. How do you then have that guy defend the IC title with everything he's got? Swagger? Miz? Etc

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I would never dream of calling Vince or the WWE hyprocrites, but for a company that wanted to go PG to appeal to children and has an anti-bullying campaign...Many of the faces are bullies. Making fun of fat Paul Hayman. If your product is for children and you want to take an anti-bullying stance, you can't call people Twinkie Tits (and have the crowd chant it)....

beastar.png

I feel like they're trying to ease their way out of PG. You can't keep calling each other ****es on a PG show every week.

---------- Post added February-5th-2013 at 10:46 PM ----------

My thoughts on WWE

...

I'll try to add my input based on some of these inputs.

The Rock can't win at WM if he's not going to be around full time. He's not, and that's why a lot of the IWC is pissed because twice in a lifetime is happening, and Cena is going to win (unless by some miracle Punk wins again at EC).

Dolph's MITB contract is for the world title. It can't be changed.

Brock is great. But they need to have him around full time, and actually WRESTLING. I wish they would dump the MMA shorts, but this time around I think they might because he hasn't put anyone in a kimura yet. To add to this, a Punk/Heyman/Brock/Shield stable would be INSANE.

I like the Shield too, but they need to let them WRESTLE. They have had one match since debuting at SS (I think). The shtick is getting old.

Khali needs to go, straight up. He's TERRIBLE. The fact that they put him the Rumble made me legitimately angry.

I think Brodus is currently stuck between a rock and a hard place. The Funkasaurus gimmick is getting stale, and a heel turn would put him at "monster heel #3" (you know, what he was originally advertised as?) going absolutely nowhere.

Sting will never work for Vince. Especially at this age, I don't ever see it happening.

I disagree with you on Cody. I don't know if he's WHC material, but he is a great IC champ. If they plan on splitting up Rhodes Scholars, he should feud with Barrett once he's done fooling around with Bo Dallas.

Randy Orton needs to go heel badly. Let him start punting people again. His character right now (wait, what is it exactly?) is stale as ****. Stop it with the "HE'S GOING TO THAT PLACE."

BIGGEST NEED OF THE WWE RIGHT NOW:

End the brand split. It's done. There is no reason to watch SmackDown anymore when all the top talent wrestles on Raw. After doing so, and getting the stars back on SmackDown again, move it to Thursdays like the good ol' days and blow TNA away with ratings. Competition is good, but TNA isn't near the WWE's level right now.

On the titles, yes, they need to do away with the WHC. More specifically, unify it with the WWE title after you do the above. I hoped that Ziggler would win the RR and do this at WM. Keep the IC title in its traditional role as the "2nd highest" belt. Keep the U.S. title to keep the midcard guys fighting for something. Tag Team and Women's (agree, not Diva's) divisions need reignited. Maybe bring back the hardcore title too once we're doing PGing.

Speaking of titles, it is high time for a new WWE Championship belt.

Go back to two hour Raws. Quality > quantity. More wrestling matches.

That's about it I have on my mind right now.

Edited by SonOfWashington

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The Rock can't win at WM if he's not going to be around full time. He's not, and that's why a lot of the IWC is pissed because twice in a lifetime is happening, and Cena is going to win (unless by some miracle Punk wins again at EC).

Unless, of course, Rock finds a way to be full time. But we know that won't happen.

To add to this, a Punk/Heyman/Brock/Shield stable would be INSANE.

I think they're going this route at the moment... But I think it's going to wind up being Heyman/Brock/SHIELD and Punk won't be involved. But they'll draw that out over a long period of time.

Khali needs to go, straight up. He's TERRIBLE. The fact that they put him the Rumble made me legitimately angry.

He can't walk. I have no idea why he's employed.

Sting will never work for Vince. Especially at this age, I don't ever see it happening.

I don't know. I don't think he'd ever be a full time employee... But I could see him taking a one off just to have the opportunity to work a WrestleMania. I'd guess if it's going to happen, WrestleMania 30 is the year. Otherwise, you're probably right.

Randy Orton

I can say I used to enjoy watching Orton. I fast forward when he's on now. For instance, on RAW... He cut off the SHIELD at the ramp... With a group of wrestlers. Since when has Orton been interested in working with other people? Especially "lesser" people. He worked with Flair, and Batista and Trips, sure... But they were all on the same level or "better" than him. His character doesn't work well paling around with the guys he walked down the ramp with. Orton is being horrendously misused. But, I think they're trying to keep a lot of the heel heat on Punk right now. So they're afraid to create a heel that could rival him.

End the brand split. It's done. There is no reason to watch SmackDown anymore when all the top talent wrestles on Raw. After doing so, and getting the stars back on SmackDown again, move it to Thursdays like the good ol' days and blow TNA away with ratings. Competition is good, but TNA isn't near the WWE's level right now.

I think they should make Smackdown a show that showcases the lesser known talent and storylines... With different champions/main eventers showing up and performing the main match of the night. Perhaps a few storylines for the main event guys get furthered... But for the most part, you give your NXT guys storylines/matches, your FCW guys... ect. Brand it as the show "Where the future is built". I would at the very least read the spoilers and decide if I felt like watching it and DVR it if it sounded interested. Knowing the young talent around, I'd probably be more inclined to watch it.

Go back to two hour Raws. Quality > quantity. More wrestling matches.

I think the three hour RAWs are good. Better character development among other factors. Especially if they turned Smackdown into more of a developmental show. They need to create more REAL storylines with the IC/US titles. Give them time.

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I know we've all said it, and we'd all like to see it....but IF there was ever a time to turn Cena heel...it's now. They have the perfect avenue to do this now with the Shield and Wrestlemania coming up...they're just gonna have to come to grips that Cena turning is going to put the kiddies in a tail spin. I seriously wouldn't count on merchandise sales dropping all that much if Cena turned. Not with Rock, Brock, possibly Taker, Triple H, and all the other special attractions that create merchandise from now until Summer Slam, really.

Anyway, the way the three superheros (Sheamus, Cena, Ryback) got into it with the Shield this past Monday night....it made me think something was up. Cena had his guys surround the ring, Shield style, and after toying with them and trapping them, they attacked. He had an odd look to him when he was standing on the ring apron with Sheamus and Ryback. On top of it all Cena didn't BURY the Shield the way he did Nexus....they actually escaped and lived to fight another day.

I thought at the Royal Rumble it might have been revealed that the Rock was the one who brought the Shield in...now...i'm HOPING, and PRAYING that it's John Cena who's in charge of bringing them in. They screwed up badly with Nexus...they have a chance to do this right. EVERYONE thinks it's a forgone conclusion that there's going to be a Heyman/Vickie/Punk/Lesnar/Shield stable...but i'm not so sure.

The whole thing with Brad Maddox actually calling out the Shield, when it was advertised that Cena would....i dunno it came off as very awkard. I think Maddox is part of a bigger plan...I think, they WANT us to think Heyman brought these guys in. It could be said that they definitely took money from Heyman to do certain things on behalf of Punk, but that doesn't mean he necessarily "recruited" them. Maybe even the professed liar himself, Paul Heyman, wasn't lying to Vince as much as we think he was. Oh and for the record Maddox is dope, i loved the Bane impression he was doing. Dude's decent on the mic and he gets hated on cuz he's not from dem indiez...but he's alright.

Still, if they could pull this off with Cena being behind the Shield...and it being revealed at Wrestlemania right after he takes the strap off the Rock..it could set up so much stuff. How would Rock respond? What potential Summer Slam and Survivor Series matches could that set up? I could honestly see that being the beginning to Cena vs Undertaker at WM 30, with that possibly being Taker's last match. Not saying it'll be for the title, I'd imagine Cena would lose the belt in a heel scenario prior to that. But a heel Cena, losing to a face Taker on the biggest stage....that could even be the event that turns Cena right back into a face.

But with all the bitterness of his subpar 2012, and with him proclaiming that 2013 will be HIS year...if that's true then please WWE do something different. Give us the heel, mastermind behind the Shield, John Cena. Make it revealed all along that Maddox AND the Shield were HIS recruits. Hell, they could even have Big E and/or AJ turn on a WHC Dolph Ziggler and say that THEY were in on this from the start as well. That would explain the fraternizing of AJ and Cena late in 2012, and they could simply say that Vickie was more hip to them than everyone realized, so they had to cool down for a while and lay low before they blew their spot up.

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