The Figure Four - ALL Things ECW-WWF-NJPW-TNA-ROH-AEW

[terrifNick21]

This sucks unless the Rock is really going to be around for a whole year if not this just sucks.

So, are you saying it sucks?

[SonOfWashington]

Alright let's start up that one year hype machine! :rotflmao:

[Redskinzfan30]

So, are you saying it sucks?

Haha that was a bit redundant there my bad.

Edited April 5, 2011 by Redskinzfan30

[Mr. Sinister]

Agreed with everything you've said Spartacus.

I guess it does kind of hit you when Cole ( who will forever in my mind be everyones *****, no matter how much they try to make him a heel ) said that next year's Wrestlemania will be "A clash of two difderent eras" and then I hear Cena kayfabe compare himself to Mike Tyson to the Rocks Muhammad Ali, which to me is a ****ing insult, when you think of all the guys that came before him, although I freely admit that I'm still somewhat pretending that it's 2003.

However, I guess there is no denying that he is a legend in the '04-'11 WWE era, evidenced by the rousing ovation he got, compared to Triple H's.

---------- Post added April-4th-2011 at 10:45 PM ----------

Alright let's start up that one year hype machine! :rotflmao:

I'm pretty sure a "kaching"just went off in McMahons head. What better way to make money than to bring together an icon of the past, and an apparent icon of the present, which will surely bring viewers from both eras. Then lets set it a year in advance so it will give an ample amount of time to oil up the machine. Marketinb genius. I'll gladly pay 60$ or whatever it is these days just to see Rock v. Cena alone.

I think what you're seeing is McMahon bringing all of these guys back in sort of a mentor fashion, so the current talent can pick their brains, and help them get better, because some of them need it big time. And I don't know what to make of the whole PG thing, since I'm 99% certain that I saw Austin flip a double bird to whoever the dude in the suit was, and heard a couple B-bombs.

[Boss_Hogg]

Dwayne Johnson currently has two movies in production, so there's no way he's gonna be on RAW for most of 2011.

[Spartacus87]

I guess it does kind of hit you when Cole ( who will forever in my mind be everyones *****, no matter how much they try to make him a heel ) said that next year's Wrestlemania will be "A clash of two difderent eras" and then I hear Cena kayfabe compare himself to Mike Tyson to the Rocks Muhammad Ali, which to me is a ****ing insult, when you think of all the guys that came before him, although I freely admit that I'm still somewhat pretending that it's 2003.

However, I guess there is no denying that he is a legend in the '04-'11 WWE era, evidenced by the rousing ovation he got, compared to Triple H's.

Triple H is a bit interesting.

Despite having a HOF-worthy career, he's never quite gotten over on a true top guy level. Part of that is because the peak of his career came when guys like Stone Cold and The Rock were also running the show, but I also think that in part, Triple H's success has somewhat lacked the organic feel of even guys like Chris Jericho and Eddie Guerrero when they were at the top.

I don't know if his close association to the McMahons (in both real life, and his wrestling persona) has had anything to do with that, or what, but Triple H has never been that bankable main event draw type. I think his peak might have been towards the end of the McMahon-Helmsley era in 2001-2002, right about the time he tore his quad and shared the tag team championship with Stone Cold.

He always has and always will get a lot of respect from the fans, but even though he was one of the big face guys from the Attitude Era until very recently, he's just not one to come out and blow the roof off the place. He does have a pretty bad ass entrance though, I'll give him that.

Side note: another guy the WWE misses a little bit right now- Batista. Spent a lot of time and effort building him up with Randy Orton with Evolution and giving him a few world title runs, but Batista was also already kind of old when he got into the wrestling game, so he wasn't really cut out for a long career.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Exactly

Triple H isn't a draw

To be honest, neither was Bret Hart or HBK

Great performers? Yeah

But big time money drawers??? No

[Mr. Sinister]

I think Batista's career will be viewed somewhat in the same vein as Diamond Dallas Page. Both kind of arrived on the big stage kind of late, but for the amount of time that they were in there, they both had a lot of success

---------- Post added April-4th-2011 at 11:46 PM ----------

Exactly

Triple H isn't a draw

To be honest, neither was Bret Hart or HBK

Great performers? Yeah

But big time money drawers??? No

Are you talking overall? Or for a certain era? What's your definition of "big money guys"?

Not everyone can be a Stone Cold Steve Austin or The Rock. They stand alone from an "entertainment" standpoint. Triple H, Hitman, and HBK were absolutely big money guys and top draws at one point. To say otherwise is to be uninformed, to put it bluntly.

Edited April 5, 2011 by Mr. Sinister

[KDawg]

To say HHH isn't a draw is an odd statement. People love Trips. People loving someone = a draw.

Faces always draw more than heels, unless that heel is one of the best ever. The Rock is one of the only guys I can think of that drew people at a heel and a face, and let's be honest, even as a heel people were cheering him (read: me everytime they did a show in Rochester). HHH is over big time as a face, and as a heel he still drew better than most. Throw in his DX association with HBK and he is one of the biggest draws in WWE history.

[Forehead]

Well, I watched Wrestlemania with a group of people, one of the two times each year I actually watch wrestling anymore, the other being the Royal Rumble. I'll start off the top by saying I also miss wrestling from when I was growing up, in the late 80's, early 90's, and through the early 2000's when I was in college. I miss a lot of the old characters, the promos, matches that felt like they had a flow to them, working the audience, rather than high flying move after high flying move.

Now that I've got that out of the way, just a few observations. As a man with Irish blood in him, I was angry that Sheamus got bumped off the cars, I always root for him just for the hell of it. Also Finley for similar reasons when he was wrestling, even though I think they bill him as Scottish.

Trish Stratus...has she gotten hotter with age? It almost looks like she had a breast reduction (an improvement) and she definitely looks better as a brunette. Also, I know I'm going to get raked over the coals for this, but ignoring her obnoxious personality and the show she comes from, when Snooki doesn't have her hair done up in that stupid bun looking thing, and it's just natural, she doesn't look all that bad. Just saying.

The Undertaker is getting painful to watch. Full disclosure, I loved the original incarnation of the Undertaker, the guy who never moved faster than a slow shuffle, who rarely spoke, sat up no matter what his him, had the elbow length gray gloves, had Paul Bearer, and a great entrance. I would like to pretend the following things never happened with him: The Ministry of Darkness, the American Bad Ass, or pretty much any other incarnation of his character. I literally would not have changed him in 20 years, I enjoyed the original so much. That being said, I thought the entrance with the Johnny Cash lyrics was really good. It's just unfortunate that the guy is a shell of his former self. I hope he makes it to 20, but he's getting painful to watch.

I didn't care about the first three matches at all, probably because I don't watch regularly and have no idea who half the characters are. Alberto Del Rio is uninspiring, Cody Rhodes I'm only interested in because his Dad was funny as hell, and Randy Orton just leaves me cold. I just find it hard to care.

The 4 on 4 was lame, but I'm going to admit it, I giggle every time that guy does the cobra thing. That is friggin hilarious. Especially the middle part where it's pointing at him and he freaks out before turning it around.

The announcer match sucked, but I did enjoy seeing Jerry Lawler in the ring again, I just wish he would have busted out the pile driver for old times sake. It was great to have good ol JR back again as well.

The William Regal rap may have been the best moment of the night. Straight outta Blackpool indeed. The Hornswoggle thing should have never happened.

Lastly, as we often do, we start paying attention to the audience as much as the matches when we get bored. Among our favorites...the big sign that said "Randy Orton Orange-O-Meter" mocking his fake tans. The large sign that said "Ha Ha Mark" since one of the guys in our group is named Mark and was convinced he was being personally mocked. The front row of the audience was great this year, whether is was the guys in basketball jerseys who were a little too old to be as excited as they were, or the buzz cut ginger kid, or the stoic asian gentleman who never showed any expression no matter what was happening in the ring, or the hot chick who was rooting for all the bad guys. The front row was an A+ this year.

[KDawg]

Well, I watched Wrestlemania with a group of people, one of the two times each year I actually watch wrestling anymore, the other being the Royal Rumble. I'll start off the top by saying I also miss wrestling from when I was growing up, in the late 80's, early 90's, and through the early 2000's when I was in college. I miss a lot of the old characters, the promos, matches that felt like they had a flow to them, working the audience, rather than high flying move after high flying move.

This is why my buddies and I ordered WrestleMania. We have fun with it. We know its fake, we don't take it seriously, but the nostalgia aspect of this WM was great. We go to live events too, and just start chanting things. We did so many WHOOO! chants the last time the we went it was hilarious. We probably annoyed a bunch of people, but the people around us loved us. They knew we weren't in to a lot of it, hence my "ROCKY!" chants in the middle of a match between two turds (one was named Zack Rider or something) when the Rock wasn't even around any more, but they enjoyed the fact we were having fun and not being total pricks. They were smiling at us and giving us high fives. It's a fun experience if you have fun with it

Trish Stratus...has she gotten hotter with age? It almost looks like she had a breast reduction (an improvement) and she definitely looks better as a brunette.

Trish Stratus married me quite a few times in my dreams 8 years ago .

Also, I know I'm going to get raked over the coals for this, but ignoring her obnoxious personality and the show she comes from, when Snooki doesn't have her hair done up in that stupid bun looking thing, and it's just natural, she doesn't look all that bad. Just saying.

Sorry, her fat is a major turn off. She looks like an oompa Loompa.

The Undertaker is getting painful to watch.

Disagree. The nostalgia alone makes watching him worth it. Also take into account he's on his last legs as a wrestler. Every time you see him is a step closer to the end of his career. Enjoy him.

Full disclosure, I loved the original incarnation of the Undertaker, the guy who never moved faster than a slow shuffle, who rarely spoke, sat up no matter what his him, had the elbow length gray gloves, had Paul Bearer, and a great entrance. I would like to pretend the following things never happened with him: The Ministry of Darkness, the American Bad Ass, or pretty much any other incarnation of his character. I literally would not have changed him in 20 years, I enjoyed the original so much. That being said, I thought the entrance with the Johnny Cash lyrics was really good. It's just unfortunate that the guy is a shell of his former self. I hope he makes it to 20, but he's getting painful to watch.

He's going to make it to 20. He'll have to die to not make it. He'll probably wrestle through anything to do it.

And he's earned the right to do just that, no matter how painful it is.

I didn't care about the first three matches at all, probably because I don't watch regularly and have no idea who half the characters are. Alberto Del Rio is uninspiring, Cody Rhodes I'm only interested in because his Dad was funny as hell, and Randy Orton just leaves me cold. I just find it hard to care.

I'm still trying to figure out why people like this Del Rio loser. I saw him twice now and both times he was boring as sin. Cody Rhodes is a turd burglar.

The 4 on 4 was lame, but I'm going to admit it, I giggle every time that guy does the cobra thing. That is friggin hilarious. Especially the middle part where it's pointing at him and he freaks out before turning it around.

Santino is the Brooklyn Brawler of this era. He's a necessity to have around. It's a different role, sure, Santino is more comedic and Brawler was more, uhm, punching dummy.

whether is was the guys in basketball jerseys who were a little too old to be as excited as they were

We actually enjoyed the guy. Clearly he was kicking back and having fun and since we don't know him personally, we didn't judge him. He probably had a bit to drink and was having fun with it. If he's like that all the time, well, good luck to him. But if he was just kicking back and having fun, good for him. I also liked his costume change. He was wearing a Hawks jersey for most of the show then switched to a Cavs.

[DM72]

I think Batista's career will be viewed somewhat in the same vein as Diamond Dallas Page. Both kind of arrived on the big stage kind of late, but for the amount of time that they were in there, they both had a lot of success

---------- Post added April-4th-2011 at 11:46 PM ----------

Are you talking overall? Or for a certain era? What's your definition of "big money guys"?

Not everyone can be a Stone Cold Steve Austin or The Rock. They stand alone from an "entertainment" standpoint. Triple H, Hitman, and HBK were absolutely big money guys and top draws at one point. To say otherwise is to be uninformed, to put it bluntly.

Have you ever heard of a guy named Hulk Hogan? He was a huge money guy before Austin and The Rock. But anyway, BRAVE was right. It's pretty much known that Hart, HBK and HHH wasn't huge money draws.

[@DCGoldPants]

Taker was really hurt before the WM match I think, right? He kind of battled through it, but they did that whole stretcher thing because he'll be gone for a long time now.

Feels like there is too much going on, and not enough time for everything to work properly. Again, that's solved by creating better factions so these people can get TV time but without having to wrastle every week on TV.

Also, where is Melina? Hurt again?

Sin Cara looked cool though.

[ACW]

I'd like a contest between Melina and Trish to see who's more bendy :mmm:

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

My point is... During the mid nineties, HBK and Bret Hart were the top guys

However, during this period, WWE was losing money, their ratings sucked, and their PPV buys were bad. Does that mean they werent good workers? No, its just that they couldn't draw money

Triple H got his shot as the guy from 03-05 and the company fell off a cliff

Ratings were in toliet and house show tickets sales were pitiful

Once again, there's no doubt that he is one of the greatest but he wasn't able to be that guy

The Rock was the guy from 00- early 01 while Austin was hurt and they company was on fire in every sense.

Same with Austin and Hogan.

This might be controversial but Edge is a draw cuz when he won the belt in 06, ratings spiked big

But yeah, All these guys I mentioned are legends...they just aren't all money drawers

---------- Post added April-5th-2011 at 12:27 PM ----------

Even tho, I will say Bret Hart got screwed all the time

WCW deserved to go outta business for how they used him at Starrcade 97

Smfh

[@DCGoldPants]

HHH was the top star when he was a Heel, and when he was with HBK in DX.

He's been really good as a face and heel actually. I think the problem now is that there isn't enough definition on who are main eventers and who are middle card guys. That's why they need a clear path for titles that takes awhile to develop. Let guys battle it out to face the champ. Let other titles be defended as the main event.

[RVAbrendan]

"Cody Rhodes is a turd burglar." hahaha.

Forehead, really enjoyed your synopsis.

I'm kind of surprised to hear that HBK + Hart weren't pulling in cash for the company around that time. They were the top dawgs of the company at that time, right? I just remember the Wrestlemania Ironman match between HBK + Hart. What a killer match.

I've never been big on HHH during the past decade or so. He feels so forced. And, similar to Cena, recycles the SAME damn moves in every match. His Pedigree has gotten really sloppy too.

I don't get around to watching much WWE these days, but I'll tell you what...Santino is one of my favorites right now. He has a GIMMICK. He has great mic skills and can really work a crowd. I can't stand the influx of new guys who have the 'standard' chiseled body, tighty whities, and use the bland 'first name, last name'. Sure, gimmicks can be cheesy, but think back to the 80s/ early 90s... IRS, Million Dollar Man, Jake The Snake, Sgt. Slaughter, Lex Luger, Legion of Doom...it's just a different product now!

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Definitely !

Santinon is hilarious

Watch the ending of this past Royal Rumble where he almost won it

His face and expressions were the funniest thing ever

[The Evil Genius]

Speaking of Lex....wonders why no one uses the Torture Rack anymore...maybe it actually causes injury (like the piledriver)???

[KDawg]

"Cody Rhodes is a turd burglar." hahaha.

Forehead, really enjoyed your synopsis.

I'm kind of surprised to hear that HBK + Hart weren't pulling in cash for the company around that time. They were the top dawgs of the company at that time, right? I just remember the Wrestlemania Ironman match between HBK + Hart. What a killer match.

I've never been big on HHH during the past decade or so. He feels so forced. And, similar to Cena, recycles the SAME damn moves in every match. His Pedigree has gotten really sloppy too.

I don't get around to watching much WWE these days, but I'll tell you what...Santino is one of my favorites right now. He has a GIMMICK. He has great mic skills and can really work a crowd. I can't stand the influx of new guys who have the 'standard' chiseled body, tighty whities, and use the bland 'first name, last name'. Sure, gimmicks can be cheesy, but think back to the 80s/ early 90s... IRS, Million Dollar Man, Jake The Snake, Sgt. Slaughter, Lex Luger, Legion of Doom...it's just a different product now!

The problem is the constant need/want to break kayfabe all the time. You can have these guys be more realistic while staying in character. HHH, The Game, The Cerebral Assassin, the King of Kings... Like him or not, he has a gimmick. He was big.

Stone Cold... Gimmick. He was big.

The Rock... Gimmick. He was big.

Edge. Gimmick. Big.

The Miz. Gimmick. Getting big.

Hulk Hogan. Gimmick (to the point of it becoming his real life identity over his actual name). He was big.

Brooklyn Brawler. Gimmick. Not big, but had a niche.

Big Bossman, LoD, Nasty Boyz, Bushwhackers, The Rockers, Nation of Domination, Hart Foundation, Macho Man, Goldberg (man with just a last name for the most part), Sting, Undertaker, Kane, etc...

Those guys had gimmicks and made something of it.

Dolph Ziggler, Cody "Turd Burglar" Rhodes, Zack Rider, Alberto Del Rio... They're all boring gimmicks, with boring rehashed concepts.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

HHH was the top star when he was a Heel, and when he was with HBK in DX.

He's been really good as a face and heel actually. I think the problem now is that there isn't enough definition on who are main eventers and who are middle card guys. That's why they need a clear path for titles that takes awhile to develop. Let guys battle it out to face the champ. Let other titles be defended as the main event.

To be honest, its kinda HHH's fault

He kept using his stroke to bury everbody so no real top face could be established

He buried Kane ( completely ruined his character), Scott Steiner, Booker T ( can't watch WM 19 because of it), Goldberg, Randy Orton, and completely killed all of RVD's hype

Let it be known, I'm still a huge HHH fan

---------- Post added April-5th-2011 at 12:47 PM ----------

I do kinda like Cody's new deal though

He went from pretty boy to Quasimodo

[RVAbrendan]

they gotta get jimmy hart back writing more entrance music too.

you just blew my mind with the bushwhackers reference haha

[KDawg]

[/color]I do kinda like Cody's new deal though

He went from pretty boy to Quasimodo

Yeah, it was great. Dr. Doom (with nothing wrong at all with his face) defeated Captain America (portrayed by a Mexican). And people wonder why people mock wrestling. That was beyond dumb. Turd Burglar should dress as the Hamburglar from McDonald's and go sniff glue.

Edited April 5, 2011 by KDawg

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Lmaoooo

I was trying to be positive

But yeah the writers have tough times writing gimmicks nowadays

[@DCGoldPants]

To be honest, its kinda HHH's fault

He kept using his stroke to bury everbody so no real top face could be established

He buried Kane ( completely ruined his character), Scott Steiner, Booker T ( can't watch WM 19 because of it), Goldberg, Randy Orton, and completely killed all of RVD's hype

Let it be known, I'm still a huge HHH fan

---------- Post added April-5th-2011 at 12:47 PM ----------

I do kinda like Cody's new deal though

He went from pretty boy to Quasimodo

I think its more the whole branding thing that has hurt the WWE more than anything else.