Is this adultery?

[skinsn24]

How do we know, there has been no physical contact, from a college standpoint it sounds like they are gettin down. I would be pissed as hell

[rincewind]

Again, never said they were on either count. I simply contend that their feelings have to get put on hold while we sort out our lives. Mollifying them will only lead to more problems. Suck it up, fix it, or decide it can't be fixed, and get on with life. Then deal with feelings and so on.

Admitedly i have a hard time speaking about feelings and emitions after cheating - as i've stated before - my wife and I have agreed to a zero tolerence relationship. If either of us ever cheats the relationship is over, period.

[Art]

I dont get this ... it's like you guys are placing all of the blame on the other man. It's not his fault. It's the wife. The need for a beatdown? Not necessary. And what's gonna happen if the wife says that she won't contact Tony anymore and then she reaches out to him later? Are you gonna kick her @ss then?

Candace, I hate to break it to you, but, you're a girl. You have no idea what you're talking about. It IS Tony's fault. It's MORE the wife's fault. But, Tony is to blame and men understand men addressing one another and settling issues and limits. Once the wife makes her assurances, should she violate them, indeed, you probably should introduce her to the pain train, but, at the very least, you take everything you can from her, and destroy what pieces of her life you can destroy, whether physically or not. Though, to be fair, it IS not always wrong to hit a woman. In a case like you describe, it should be encouraged.

[PleaseBlitz]

Im with Destino on this one. Wifey is primarily at fault, but Tony needs to see some consequences to his actions, if just to make ME feel better.

You guys may call me a caveman, but i'd be speaking with Tony in a VERY face-to-face manor. Not necessarily a fight. But he'd have NO confusion as to my feelings for him. This is a real easy situation for Tony so long as he doenst see any repercussions to his actions. If you let him know that he may be facing some serious adverse effects, maybe he wont be too eager to try and hit on wifey.

But thats just me.

[skinsbuck]

Im with Destino on this one. Wifey is primarily at fault, but Tony needs to see some consequences to his actions, if just to make ME feel better.

You guys may call me a caveman, but i'd be speaking with Tony in a VERY face-to-face manor. Not necessarily a fight. But he'd have NO confusion as to my feelings for him. This is a real easy situation for Tony so long as he doenst see any repercussions to his actions. If you let him know that he may be facing some serious adverse effects, maybe he wont be too eager to try and hit on wifey.

But thats just me.

This cannot and should not be overlooked. This has to happen. If you want to give your marriage a chance there cannot be ANY interference from Tony, or it will all go to sh1t and a handbasket. After he's told and after she is told, the marriage will be broken if they make contact again. That's why it's so important. A no tolerance rule needs to be in effect while the marriage is repaired.

[PleaseBlitz]

Candace, I hate to break it to you, but, you're a girl. You have no idea what you're talking about. It IS Tony's fault. It's MORE the wife's fault. But, Tony is to blame and men understand men addressing one another and settling issues and limits. Once the wife makes her assurances, should she violate them, indeed, you probably should introduce her to the pain train, but, at the very least, you take everything you can from her, and destroy what pieces of her life you can destroy, whether physically or not. Though, to be fair, it IS not always wrong to hit a woman. In a case like you describe, it should be encouraged.

:yikes:

Wow.

[rincewind]

:yikes:

Wow.

Yeah, didn't really know how to put into words - i think that will suffice.

[HOF44]

Once the wife makes her assurances, should she violate them, indeed, you probably should introduce her to the pain train, but, at the very least, you take everything you can from her, and destroy what pieces of her life you can destroy, whether physically or not. Though, to be fair, it IS not always wrong to hit a woman. In a case like you describe, it should be encouraged.

No smiley after the last sentence??

I agree with you on the first part, that you should take the kids and the cash and leave her on her own. You really advocate going physical? You do that she calls the cops and your kids are left with her and your off to jail. Not a good move.

[CandaceM23]

Candace, I hate to break it to you, but, you're a girl. You have no idea what you're talking about. It IS Tony's fault. It's MORE the wife's fault. But, Tony is to blame and men understand men addressing one another and settling issues and limits. Once the wife makes her assurances, should she violate them, indeed, you probably should introduce her to the pain train, but, at the very least, you take everything you can from her, and destroy what pieces of her life you can destroy, whether physically or not. Though, to be fair, it IS not always wrong to hit a woman. In a case like you describe, it should be encouraged.

Ummm ... are you serious? You honestly can't be. Cause if you are, then God Bless You. First of all, I'm not a girl. I'm a woman. I'm 26 years old and whether you meant to insult me by calling me a girl, I take it as an insult. In my short 26 years of life, I've seen more than most 26 year olds.

But back to this whole thing ... what in the hell are you talking about? It IS Tony's fault? I did not say that Tony is not at fault, but I do think that the majority of the anger should be directed at the married woman. The married woman is in a union and made a vow before God. The married woman is supposedly comitted to her husband. The other man has no committment to you, the married woman, etc.

So when does this whole "Man to Man" thing occur? Because when you're in high school and college, it seems to be perfectly acceptable to hook up with girls who are in relationships and what not.

And when in the world did I ever say that it was acceptable for a man to hit his wife? Do you not understand what I am saying? Violence in any shape or form is completely unnecessary and wrong. Violence is not needed.

[JPM285181]

Hmmm ... but if we're interested in trying to fix the marriage, then Tony should not be bothered by either the husband or the wife. The focus should be upon husband and wife. Of course Tony knows that he's done something wrong ... anyone with half of a brain would know not to mess with anyone's wife. But to physically go after Tony or threaten him, thats only going to make things worse.

I've been dealing with this for the last month and a half. One of my best girlfriends husband cheated on her. My girlfriend has anger towards the other woman ... but the thing is that there have been MANY other women. I think that my friend has a right to be angry at the other woman ... but ULTIMATELY IT WAS HER HUSBANDS FAULT. HER HUSBAND WAS THE ONE IN THE RELATIONSHIP WHO MADE THE OATH BEFORE GOD. My girlfriend has more anger at the other woman than her husband. I've tried explaining that it's not completely the other woman's fault ... that the majority of the blame lays with her husband.

You never know what could be happening in these situations. The committed person could be telling the others that they're separated, that they're just living together for the kids, etc.

If you're going to go after someone and be furious and want to place blame, you place it on the one who's married and strayed away.

Amen sister,this has been my point all along.

[Madman_Mike]

I dont know which smiley to insert here ... I don't want to get chewed out ... but I think that this is the appropriate one :applause:

Thanks but don't be too kind to me, I'm not proud of it but I was just "the other man" so I have a different take. The only defense I can claim for my own actions is that I fell in love and if it's any consolation to those here who think I am dirt, I was the one who was hurt the most and I will feel this pain more and for a lot longer than anything physical anyone could do to me.

As someone said, every situation is different but I can tell you that a) a woman (or a man) can be torn between two people and they must make their own choice of what to do about it. And If the girl in question in my case had chosen to get a divorce, her husband would have to kill me to prevent me from being with her.

Brave's case sounds different in many ways but human nature does not change. You can't own people or force them to your will even if they are your spouse.

__________________________________________

Brave. For the love of god man, confront her just enough to get her attention and no more. Give her a chance to end things on her own. If she does that, you will be so much better off than any situation you try to force. If she doesn't you will know your marriage is not worth saving and it's time to move on.

[JPM285181]

wow what a thread....

personally i wouldn't take art's approach of threatening tony.

#1 what if he ends up kicking your ass

#2. if you do kick his ass and he wants to escalate the violence/press charges, then you've got a bigger problem.

#3. you can't keep someone who doesn't want to be with you. its definately more rewarding for someone to love you on their own volition than through an iron fist/manipulation. this doesn't compare to raising a child who doesn't know any better. this woman is an adult and she makes her own decisions. if she doesn't think enough of our relationship to make good decisions, i can easily be happy alone.

tony is just handling his business but obviously a shady character since he already has a pregnant gf@home. i feel no need to apologize for tipping out on me. i would definately confront her and tell her i know what's up and the ball is in her court to take steps to repair our relationship or its over.

finally i think being a man is being in control; being in control of my emotions and actions. i don't feel the need to beat on my chest and assert my strength when someone hurts me. :2cents:

With age comes wisdom (clearly)

[Madman_Mike]

Candace, I hate to break it to you, but, you're a girl. You have no idea what you're talking about. It IS Tony's fault. It's MORE the wife's fault. But, Tony is to blame and men understand men addressing one another and settling issues and limits. Once the wife makes her assurances, should she violate them, indeed, you probably should introduce her to the pain train, but, at the very least, you take everything you can from her, and destroy what pieces of her life you can destroy, whether physically or not. Though, to be fair, it IS not always wrong to hit a woman. In a case like you describe, it should be encouraged.

Translation.... Uhg. Me club girl, drag back to cave.:doh:

[Byner21]

Thanks to all who have replied so far.

John has admitted to me that his marriage suffered from poor communications from both he and Jane. He definately accepts his part of the blame in that regard. His problem deciding how to proceed is partly because he doesn't know if he wants to put in the work necessary to save his marriage only to have it return to the same sorry state it was in.

I've told him if he's not leaving due to the kids, he may as well try to make the best of it with his wife. He's not so sure.

They need to talk, period. He should confront her with what he knows, and she will obviously have a strong reaction. A third party counsel would probably be very helpful. Good luck to them. That's a tough situation, but I think it's recoverable if they both want it. I believe that communication and trust are really the most important things to make a relationship work, and they go hand-in-hand.

[SkinsNut73]

My questions to you on this board, in your infinite wisdom:

How serious an offense do you think this is?

What course of action would you take were you in John's shoes?

First of all Brave....sorry this is happening to you man. Be strong brother...we're here for you.

To answer the question (and I'll probably repeat what others have said since I'm a late-comer to the thread), I think it is a very serious offense. Even if they have not "officially cheated" via physical means, the trust has been broken...and even though there is no proof of a physical relationship, if your wife is describing/talking about sex with another man via text messaging/IM's, then I would think there has been some physical contact in the past/currently going on now.

As for what I would do....

Well, I have 3 kids and it would absolutely crush me if life ever got to a point where my wife and I divorced and I got to see them on weekends and every other holiday. I would probably put up with a bad marriage (rocky relationship) - odd for me to say since my parents had a bad marriage and stayed together for the kids and I KNOW how bad that can be.

So...if my wife cheated on me ONCE ( a one night stand type deal) I would most likely take her back and try to reconcile. The relationship would NEVER be the same of course, but I'd be more forgiving that if she were to become attached to someone else...as it seems Mrs Brave has. I don't think I could ever get over the "emotional" cheating. I'll give Mrs Brave the benefit of the doubt and assume she has not consumated this relationship....the fact that she is emotionally attached to this other man would actually disturb me more than the sex aspect (don't get me wrong...I'm not saying go out and bang whomever you please honey, just don't fall in love with them....).

I think the relationship would be over (again, if this were me) at this point. I would confront my wife about everything...hard to say if I would give her a chance to end the relationship with the other man and reconcile....I'm thinking I would remind her that she broke the bond of marriage and she is the one who has already checked out of this relationship. I would probably tell her that she is free to go, but the kids are staying with me in my house. And I would be contacting my lawyer to begin the divorce proceedings.

You see, even if you are partly to blame for the relationship faltering, that still does not give her a "Get out of jail free" card to go off and cheat.

As for Mr. Scumbag....who goes after another man's wife WHILE HIS LIVE-IN PREGNANT GIRLFRIEND is at home is not worth my time and effort. If at this point I'm not even willing to work on the relationship with my wife, do you think I'm going to care about him? Sure, what he did 'to me' was a slap-in-the-face...and it would take every ounce of restraint to not kick his ass if I ever saw him....I wouldn't waste my time.

I'd get my ducks in a row to ensure I get custody of my kids.

...and I'd give my wife a new housewarming present...something she might be able to use when she is living with her new boyfriend and his new "family".

Best wishes to you Brave!!!!

[CandaceM23]

As for Mr. Scumbag....who goes after another man's wife WHILE HIS LIVE-IN PREGNANT GIRLFRIEND is at home is not worth my time and effort. If at this point I'm not even willing to work on the relationship with my wife, do you think I'm going to care about him? Sure, what he did 'to me' was a slap-in-the-face...and it would take every ounce of restraint to not kick his ass if I ever saw him....I wouldn't waste my time.

Amen. Finally ... another voice of reason !!!!

[Byner21]

For a pathetic, frightened boy, sure. For a man who needs at some point to remember it's ok to be a man, not so much. A line of trust was crossed that can't be uncrossed. But, if things continue in this relationship, it can be made quite clear how great the breach was, and how completely frightening the reaction can be.

The wife doesn't deserve understanding or rational conversation. In this relationship, she obviously feels she needs to find "passion" somewhere else. Only by acting passionately and convincingly can anything good come out of this. Going to a marriage councelor will lead to a divorce because there will never be any respect again. If she can do this without consequence and only with a couple meetings with a shrink, she can do anything she wants.

You can make her respect you without being a caveman and suggesting physical threats to Tony...or her!?!!

That's why you confront her, and tell her that it can't go on. If it does, it's over. As far as approaching the guy, it shouldn't be necessary. It's up to her, ultimately.

Geez dude.

[Art]

I understand quite a bit more than you apparently. You sound like a caveman.

A marriage cannot work because you force it to. Both parties must make the choice of their own free will to work at it. And I have news for you, you cant force two people to stay away from each other if they want to be together, unless of course you have lost your damn mind and are willing to commit murder.

It seems the only issue of any importance to you is personal ego and pride.

No one is suggesting a marriage can work because you force it to. No where in this thread has that been hinted at or mentioned or offered as advice. It HAS been stated that an improper relationship CAN stop BECAUSE you force it to. Absolutely different things. Yes, you can force two people to stay away from each other. You just have to be persuasive enough .

[rincewind]

No one is suggesting a marriage can work because you force it to. No where in this thread has that been hinted at or mentioned or offered as advice. It HAS been stated that an improper relationship CAN stop BECAUSE you force it to. Absolutely different things. Yes, you can force two people to stay away from each other. You just have to be persuasive enough .

No, but has been more than hinted that you view physical abuse as a very real possibility - you think thats what makes shaky relationships work?

p.s. - you're starting to sound like Mass. You sure he didn't steal your account info?

[Thiebear]

They worked together and both knew about the others relationships...

that whole talking thing in the beginning before they start cheating lets them know that.....

Some people are naive to think neither knew.... If they met in a bar: Yes..

Meeting at work.. they both are doing this with full disclosure...

________________

[Art]

Rince, Art's way forces the wife to conciously make a choice. If she is confronted by him and reacts negatively, the marriage is (or should be) over. If she reacts with sincerity and love, the marriage has a chance. Art's idea of taking it to the wife and confronting her is for the husband's benefit. After that incredibly difficult conversation, he will know what needs to be done.

THe alternative is to dance. You can dance around the subject and take blame for "not being a good husband" all you want, but it doesn't address the issue. Therefore, there is no benefit. Both sides have to be grown ups here and deal with some difficult things. They both have to talk about some serious issues, and they need to know where each other stands. And Art is right, the wife knowing that she is worth fighting for is worth a lot.

No one is saying wives are property; however, this one did break the bonds of marriage. The situation has to be rectified in no uncertain terms. There is no room for ambiguity here. You don't want to have a difficult conversation with your wife about your faults without having clarification about her role in the situation and her role as your wife for the future.

Wow. It's almost like some people don't speak the language. Thanks for assuring me some people do. There is NO option presented in continuing the marriage. It IS this way -- your improper relationship is over -- OR ours is. It's not a debate. There are no contrary thoughts. There's no mitigating circumstance. That is settled. After that everything else can be worked. Until that, nothing can be.

[Art]

That's the thing - i'm sure you don't, but some posts have sure sounded that way (not necessarily your's - just over the length of the thread). There have been posts that have completely taken her decision making out of the equation, and some that have taken her feeling out of the equation. That, and there are some posts you could replace 'my wife' with 'my dog' or 'my car.'

Yes, Rince. A wife doesn't have a choice to BE married while at the same time discussing the option of licking some other guy's nuts. It's not hard. She's not equal in that discussion. She either radically conforms or she goes. If she's no longer married she can do what she wants. If she wishes to remain married, she can't. A wife can't say, "Gosh, I love you, I want to stay married, but, you need to appreciate I need to have Tony bang me three times a week for it to work."

What's the matter with you people? The wife has no position other than, "Yes, indeed, I can not have intimate relations with OTHER men and stay married." That you think this is a discussion you have to pay attention to her point of view is so insane I can't begin to express how sad it is.

[Art]

Why are you getting that impression? Just wondering...because that is not at all what I think of women. I don't think Destino does either. Art? Well I don't think he does but I wouldn't put anything past him.

A wife is every man's physical property. A man is every wife's physical property. We make that bond to each other when we marry. We promise to forsake all others. We commit to one another. I OWN that portion of my wife as she owns it in me. And, making sure she understands marriage is not getting laid -- emotionally or physically -- outside the home, and coming home to a husband. Some people may live that life and that's great. But, that's not what marriage is to the majority.

A husband absolutely has a right to deny other men to his wife. I can not even believe some of you think otherwise.

[HOF44]

Wow. It's almost like some people don't speak the language. Thanks for assuring me some people do. There is NO option presented in continuing the marriage. It IS this way -- your improper relationship is over -- OR ours is. It's not a debate. There are no contrary thoughts. There's no mitigating circumstance. That is settled. After that everything else can be worked. Until that, nothing can be.

I'm with you on this Art.

Once the wife makes her assurances, should she violate them, indeed, you probably should introduce her to the pain train, but, at the very least, you take everything you can from her, and destroy what pieces of her life you can destroy, whether physically or not. Though, to be fair, it IS not always wrong to hit a woman. In a case like you describe, it should be encouraged.

You loose me here though. You meant to put a smiley after this right?

[Byner21]

Candace, I hate to break it to you, but, you're a girl. You have no idea what you're talking about. It IS Tony's fault. It's MORE the wife's fault. But, Tony is to blame and men understand men addressing one another and settling issues and limits. Once the wife makes her assurances, should she violate them, indeed, you probably should introduce her to the pain train, but, at the very least, you take everything you can from her, and destroy what pieces of her life you can destroy, whether physically or not. Though, to be fair, it IS not always wrong to hit a woman. In a case like you describe, it should be encouraged.

If you're not kidding, then you're a ****ing a**hole, and I'm utterly embarrassed that you are a moderator on the Redskins message board. Is Dan Snyder paying you?!!

Are others not shocked by this? Please tell me you're joking. You are definitely advocating domestic abuse, and when you say "destroy" you seem to be advocating murder???!!!!!!

Even if you are joking, this is NOT something to joke about. Terrible. I feel sick to my stomach.

Bring it on. I eagerly await your reply, ****head.