My Day Without Illegal Aliens (and friends)

[Leonard Washington]

but why do you have a 3 hour roundtrip commute?!! that is nuts man...

maybe he shouldn't drive through fields used by illegal workers? :laugh:

traffic was lighter in balto yesterday but it didn't mean much to me. i have no beef with someone doing a job i couldn't live off or want to do just for the chance at a better life for themselves and children. i thought this country was based on people taking advantage of each other.

[Fergasun]

AFC,

It's normally 1 hour... but when I leave late it becomes 3 hours. The short answer is my wife wanted to be closer to her family. I am working on moving us closer so I shave 1 hour off my commute.

[Fergasun]

An addendum to my initial post. My wife has a friend who lives in Koreatown (downtown LA, where the marches took place). This would be her perspective.

I woke up this morning sad that my husband had to go to work at his downtown Sushi restaurant. My son wasn't in Kindergarten because he goes to school downtown. His private school was closed due to the marches. At my husband's work-place there were no dishwashers or busboys... but also no customers. The owner didn't "give up" until noon. My husband came home and took his customary nap. I was annoyed by the loud noise going on outside my apartment. My son was annoyed because he is used to being outside. My husband went back to work around 4 pm.

I think these protests did a good job at closing down the areas of the city frequented by immigrants (legal and illegal).

[airborneskins]

The only problem I encountered is trying to explain to my kids why Dora the Explorer wasn't on.

:laugh: beat me to it.

[Seabee1973]

Great. So, will you show up in rubber gloves to scrub down the bathroom where I work? NO? Well, neither will the guy on the corner of Glebe and Wilson begging for money.

Do you use the bathroom where you work?

[DjTj]

If he doesn't want to be illegal, well, yesterday he took a day off from work. Why not go down to INS and begin the paperwork? Why not go to the proper agencies and begin the process of immigrating legally?

Nah, why bother. I'ts much easier to go to a rally and demand special treatment.

Bang,

You do realize that this is not at all how the system works, right? There is NO PAPERWORK that an illegal immigrant can fill out to make them legal. The way the law is set up, if you are in this country illegally, you're pretty much stuck being illegal for the rest of your life. Since the 1980's, Congress has granted amnesty a few times - first a general amnesty in 1986 then a few amnesties for immigrants with jobs in the 1990's. However, since 2000, the rule has basically been that if you are here illegally for an extended period of time, you can't get legal status unless you leave for 3-10 years before coming.

So yes, it is much easier to go to a rally than to go back to their home countries, wait several years, apply for immigration status, wait several more years, and then come back.

Even under the legal immigration system, you can only get a green card if you are related to a citizen. If you're not the spouse, child, or parent of a citizen, the wait is at LEAST 5 years (closer to 10 years for Mexicans).

These people aren't stupid. If there were a way for them to legalize, they would do it. However, nobody is waiting 10 years to immigrate (and that's only if you have a U.S. relative), especially when jobs are available right now. Our system is broken and it needs fixing. Pointing fingers at the immigrants isn't going to solve anything.

[Peregrine]

The biggest thing that irks me about it is, not just that they consider themselves above the law, but that there are a LOT of people that want into this country. These people fill out the proper paperwork, go through the proper channels to obtain entrance to this country legaly(and eventually citizenship). Yet they are held back because we have an influx of illegal immigrants, and the courts are tied up. Extra resources have to be taken away to deal with all the illegal immigrants, and the lower yearly quotas are. If there werent any illegal immigrants entering this country at all, im positive the quotas would be raised by a very large ammount. Yet these people doing things the right way are stiffed, and people with no respect for our laws are instead winning.

Shame on our government for allowing this to happen. You never punish people for doing the right thing and praise people for doing the wrong thing.

[Fergasun]

DjTj,

There is paperwork illegals can fill out to become legal.

Illegals can apply for an "adjustment of status". One of the first things that comes up on this form is... "When and how did you last enter the United States?". If you entered illegally you are denied adjustment and given a deportation notice in the mail.

Technically, yes... there is paperwork they can fill out, but it will always be denied since they entered illegally. Illegal aliens knew all this and still crossed our borders. Look at it as a trade-off... you can have a job and make more money, but you'll always be an illegal alien in "fear of deportation."

[Zguy28]

I was going to go out and protest but I couldn't find my German and Irish flags.

O wait I found'em! Think my boss would let me off today instead?:laugh:

[DjTj]

The biggest thing that irks me about it is, not just that they consider themselves above the law, but that there are a LOT of people that want into this country. These people fill out the proper paperwork, go through the proper channels to obtain entrance to this country legaly(and eventually citizenship). Yet they are held back because we have an influx of illegal immigrants, and the courts are tied up. Extra resources have to be taken away to deal with all the illegal immigrants, and the lower yearly quotas are. If there werent any illegal immigrants entering this country at all, im positive the quotas would be raised by a very large ammount. Yet these people doing things the right way are stiffed, and people with no respect for our laws are instead winning.

Shame on our government for allowing this to happen. You never punish people for doing the right thing and praise people for doing the wrong thing.

I don't think the government is praising anyone for coming illegally. I think that's why people call them illegal - because they can be deported.

Illegal immigrants and legal immigrants are not in competition with each other at all. Legal immigration is basically restricted to relatives and white-collar workers: grandma and computer programmers. Illegal immigration is primarily unskilled labor. The people who go through legal channels usually aren't in a hurry to come to the U.S. or desperate to make money - they just want to live with their families or they are upwardly mobile. Nobody is winning or losing in this equation - if anything, the legal immigrants are still winning because they have access to government services, a path to citizenship, and freedom of travel in and out of the country.

I don't know what you mean by the courts being tied up. Immigrants don't need to go to court unless they're being deported. In the Senate bill that creates a guest worker program, the quotas for legal immigration are also approximately doubled, so I don't think there is any direct competition like you say.

Even when there have been grants of amnesty in the past, illegal immigrants have been given temporary status and placed at the back of the line - that's what a guest worker program would do. It would take at least 6 years for a guest worker to reach the same level of status as a green card holding immigrant. Green card holders must wait 5 years for citizenship while guest workers will have to wait 11. The line-jumping problem is something that politicians have thought carefully about.

DjTj,

There is paperwork illegals can fill out to become legal.

Illegals can apply for an "adjustment of status". One of the first things that comes up on this form is... "When and how did you last enter the United States?". If you entered illegally you are denied adjustment and given a deportation notice in the mail.

Technically, yes... there is paperwork they can fill out, but it will always be denied since they entered illegally. Illegal aliens knew all this and still crossed our borders. Look at it as a trade-off... you can have a job and make more money, but you'll always be an illegal alien in "fear of deportation."

Adjustment is generally for people on H-1B's or F-1's or other temporary visas that want to adjust to permanent status. You have to be holding a valid visa to "adjust" to permanent status. Illegals don't hold any valid documentation, so technically, adjustment isn't for them.

I don't know what your point is here - that anyone with a pen can fill out a form if they want to? I could go down to the INS and fill out that form too, but it wouldn't accomplish anything.

[Air Force Cane]

"So, will you show up in rubber gloves to scrub down the bathroom where I work? NO? Well, neither will the guy on the corner of Glebe and Wilson begging for money."

uh, who did the job BEFORE this latest illegal Mexican? somehow the country has survived for 260 years without having to use illegals to build it.

and you can take the slavery issue out of the equation. I am talking about having legal work permits, and cutting down illegals

[Predicto]

There is a particular poster on this board that insists there were only a "few" Latin flags at the last round of protests and virtually none in this round. Said he knows people that went and that is what they say.

Are you SURE they were Mexican flags and not American flags?

edit: I believe you saw what you say you saw, and I am sure you know the difference between the flags.

If you are talking about me, I told you what I saw outside my window in San Francisco yesterday. About 30,000 people, hundreds of American flags, and a handful of Mexican flags. If you are claiming I made this up, then F-U. :mad:

[MissU28]

The only problem I encountered is trying to explain to my kids why Dora the Explorer wasn't on.

:laugh:

[rincewind]

I still don't understand why fergasun spent a day without friends. Are all of his friends illegals and therefore on strike? :whoknows:

[Predicto]

I don't think the government is praising anyone for coming illegally. I think that's why people call them illegal - because they can be deported.

Illegal immigrants and legal immigrants are not in competition with each other at all. Legal immigration is basically restricted to relatives and white-collar workers: grandma and computer programmers. Illegal immigration is primarily unskilled labor. The people who go through legal channels usually aren't in a hurry to come to the U.S. or desperate to make money - they just want to live with their families or they are upwardly mobile. Nobody is winning or losing in this equation - if anything, the legal immigrants are still winning because they have access to government services, a path to citizenship, and freedom of travel in and out of the country.

I don't know what you mean by the courts being tied up. Immigrants don't need to go to court unless they're being deported. In the Senate bill that creates a guest worker program, the quotas for legal immigration are also approximately doubled, so I don't think there is any direct competition like you say.

Even when there have been grants of amnesty in the past, illegal immigrants have been given temporary status and placed at the back of the line - that's what a guest worker program would do. It would take at least 6 years for a guest worker to reach the same level of status as a green card holding immigrant. Green card holders must wait 5 years for citizenship while guest workers will have to wait 11. The line-jumping problem is something that politicians have thought carefully about.

Adjustment is generally for people on H-1B's or F-1's or other temporary visas that want to adjust to permanent status. You have to be holding a valid visa to "adjust" to permanent status. Illegals don't hold any valid documentation, so technically, adjustment isn't for them.

I don't know what your point is here - that anyone with a pen can fill out a form if they want to? I could go down to the INS and fill out that form too, but it wouldn't accomplish anything.

You keep making these long posts attempting to fix people's misconceptions about how the system actually works, and the same misconceptions keep reappearing. I hope you don't get discouraged.

[manleyistheman]

I have to agree... Northern Virginia including Herndon (largely hispanic) was nice and quiet yesterday traffic wise. I really didn't notice anything other than a) I was able to get into the 7-11 for a coffee (normally you can't get in there with all the people waiting to get picked up for work). large group on Elden street protesting..............waving mexican flags :doh:

Am I'm reading this incorrectly or are you agreeing with those that suggest we are better off without hispanics? Please elaborate.

[Redskins Diehard]

If you are talking about me, I told you what I saw outside my window in San Francisco yesterday. About 30,000 people, hundreds of American flags, and a handful of Mexican flags. If you are claiming I made this up, then F-U. :mad:

Well I wasn't talking about you. But thanks for the sentiment all the same, although it does seem a little out of character for you.

[pez]

Am I'm reading this incorrectly or are you agreeing with those that suggest we are better off without hispanics? Please elaborate.

First off, I was stating as someone else had, that trafic was a lot easier.

Second, I do not believe we are better off without hispanics. I do however think that we are better off without illegal immigrants. There are plenty of hispanics that live here who do so legally... Including my past family (hispanic).

[Bang]

Bang,

You do realize that this is not at all how the system works, right? There is NO PAPERWORK that an illegal immigrant can fill out to make them legal. The way the law is set up, if you are in this country illegally, you're pretty much stuck being illegal for the rest of your life. Since the 1980's, Congress has granted amnesty a few times - first a general amnesty in 1986 then a few amnesties for immigrants with jobs in the 1990's. However, since 2000, the rule has basically been that if you are here illegally for an extended period of time, you can't get legal status unless you leave for 3-10 years before coming.

So yes, it is much easier to go to a rally than to go back to their home countries, wait several years, apply for immigration status, wait several more years, and then come back.

Even under the legal immigration system, you can only get a green card if you are related to a citizen. If you're not the spouse, child, or parent of a citizen, the wait is at LEAST 5 years (closer to 10 years for Mexicans).

These people aren't stupid. If there were a way for them to legalize, they would do it. However, nobody is waiting 10 years to immigrate (and that's only if you have a U.S. relative), especially when jobs are available right now. Our system is broken and it needs fixing. Pointing fingers at the immigrants isn't going to solve anything.

Fair enough, I'm prepared to accept that. And I do agree the system needs to be fixed. Frankly, I'm more inclined to going after these farms and other businesses who were so depleted in work force yesterday. To me, they are the source of the problem.

~Bang

[oriolesfan93p]

Fair enough, I'm prepared to accept that. And I do agree the system needs to be fixed. Frankly, I'm more inclined to going after these farms and other businesses who were so depleted in work force yesterday. To me, they are the source of the problem.

~Bang

The unfortunate side of things is that farmers are already being given money by the government because they can't make enough money, and the last place that the government is going to go after is the farms, maybe the consturction companies but they won't go after the farms....

That being said, Senator McCain's statement that he didn't think he could get regular americans to man those fields at $50/hour is wrong too, I believe that americans are willing to do any job out there, just not for the money that these people are offering them, in fact they couldn't legally work for that much money, keep that in mind also....

[manleyistheman]

First off, I was stating as someone else had, that trafic was a lot easier.

Second, I do not believe we are better off without hispanics. I do however think that we are better off without illegal immigrants. There are plenty of hispanics that live here who do so legally... Including my past family (hispanic).

First, you did use the words '...nice and quiet...' and that could be interpreted as suggesting it being better. Hence my request for clarification. My apologies if I'm reading too much into the a word meaning agreeable when describing the lack of Hispanics around your day.

Second, I was already under the impression that you are Hispanic or of Hispanic descent. As such, I would think you would be able to sympathize with immigrants wanting better lives for their children. After all, at some point your ancestors did just that. I realize your argument is that it's the illegals that we can do without, after all you and your family came here legally. Again, I would think you would sympathize or at least understand that the system in place not only has no measures to stop illegals from coming in but also benefits from their need to make money to survive. I won't go as far as saying that illegals are entirely innocent victims, but they are certainly not the terrible people you and others are trying to make them out to be.

I just get so dissapointed when I hear of another Hispanic who jumps on the hate-filled bandwagon that tries to make the issue black and white when there are so many shades of brown in between.

[Redskins Diehard]

I just get so dissapointed when I hear of another Hispanic who jumps on the hate-filled bandwagon that tries to make the issue black and white when there are so many shades of brown in between.

Once again I ask...isn't it possible to want our laws to be enforced without riding a hate-filled bandwagon?

[Bang]

Can we make a distinction between "hispanic" and "illegal immigrant"?

It seems the line is getting blurred, and while i am not one for nitpicking and word mincing, i'd hate for people to be lumped together by heritage instead of deeds. (or mis-deeds, as may be the case)

~Bang

[pez]

First, you did use the words '...nice and quiet...' and that could be interpreted as suggesting it being better. Hence my request for clarification. My apologies if I'm reading too much into the a word meaning agreeable when describing the lack of Hispanics around your day.

Second, I was already under the impression that you are Hispanic or of Hispanic descent. As such, I would think you would be able to sympathize with immigrants wanting better lives for their children. After all, at some point your ancestors did just that. I realize your argument is that it's the illegals that we can do without, after all you and your family came here legally. Again, I would think you would sympathize or at least understand that the system in place not only has no measures to stop illegals from coming in but also benefits from their need to make money to survive. I won't go as far as saying that illegals are entirely innocent victims, but they are certainly not the terrible people you and others are trying to make them out to be.

I just get so dissapointed when I hear of another Hispanic who jumps on the hate-filled bandwagon that tries to make the issue black and white when there are so many shades of brown in between.

Look... I don't hate these people, sorry if it came out like that. It is just that why not take the legal route? Or if that is not quick enough, is America the only country in the world that can offer better opportunities than where they came from? In the end, even though they take jobs that most might not necessarily want, most end up hurting the economy.

[luckydevil]

most end up hurting the economy.

quite the opposite