My Day Without Illegal Aliens (and friends)

[Mooka]

The unfortunate side of things is that farmers are already being given money by the government because they can't make enough money, and the last place that the government is going to go after is the farms, maybe the consturction companies but they won't go after the farms....

That being said, Senator McCain's statement that he didn't think he could get regular americans to man those fields at $50/hour is wrong too, I believe that americans are willing to do any job out there, just not for the money that these people are offering them, in fact they couldn't legally work for that much money, keep that in mind also....

You may have a point about the farms, if offered more money then more Americans would be willing.

But those are not the only jobs that people are refering too. Why don't more Americans clean houses? There isn't a money issue there; house cleaners are quite expensive. While there are plenty of American house cleaning companies there are 10times the illegals and immigrants cleaning houses and I'll bet that the American house cleaning companies hire mostly immigrants as well.

Why don't Americans who can't get a job post a sign in the nieghborhood saying they'll clean houses? To anyone here that's been out of work, did it ever cross your mind to clean houses in the transition period? I'll guess probably not, and guess that a person would be embarrassed to ask their neighbor if they needed a new house cleaner.....

[Predicto]

Well I wasn't talking about you. But thanks for the sentiment all the same, although it does seem a little out of character for you.

I'm sorry. I completely misunderstood your post. My apologies.

I thought you were calling me a liar, and I overreacted.

[pez]

quite the opposite

What about the following:

Medical costs of uninsured illegal immigrants.

Undocumented (therefore nontaxed) wages.

Illegal wage standards leading to use of illegal immigrants over legal unemployed workers.

[Predicto]

Look... I don't hate these people, sorry if it came out like that. It is just that why not take the legal route?

As many people have explained, there is NO legal route for non-skilled labor.

[luckydevil]

What about the following:

Medical costs of uninsured illegal immigrants.

Undocumented (therefore nontaxed) wages.

Illegal wage standards leading to use of illegal immigrants over legal unemployed workers.

The truth is they are subsiding us, not the opposite (American citizens receive more in government benefits than do immigrants-legal and illegal). Numerous studies (from both sides) have pointed this out. There was an Urban Institute in the mid 90's that pointed out immigrants contributed $30 billion more in taxes than they receive each year.

The notion that they are hurting economy is blatantly ignorant; the argument ignores basic empirical evidence.

[Fergasun]

The notion that they are hurting economy is blatantly ignorant; the argument ignores basic empirical evidence.

If this was true, Los Angeles would have a booming economy, and the police chief and others wouldn't be clamoring to raise taxes to pay for such basic services as schools and police.

Why did a lot of hospitals in Southern California close in the past 15 years?

Just another part of lies, damn lies and statistics.

[pez]

The truth is they are subsiding us, not the opposite (American citizens receive more in government benefits than do immigrants-legal and illegal). Numerous studies (from both sides) have pointed this out. There was an Urban Institute in the mid 90's that pointed out immigrants contributed $30 billion more in taxes than they receive each year.

The notion that they are hurting economy is blatantly ignorant; the argument ignores basic empirical evidence.

Okay, I am unware of that, but the question is, do illegal immigrants deserve a job more than a legal citizen? Also do you account for population growth, which includes overcrowding in school?

[HailYeah]

First of all, I take the Metro to work and since I am a selfish person who only cares about himself I can honestly say that I dont want anymore protests because MY COMMUTE was 10X worse with all the protesters.

Second, for the poster who said "don't they have any place else to go?" or something to that affect. No. What is the better option for them? Costa Rica? El Slavador? Go to the giant, rich country to the north or a small, poor country to the south where they can only make money by pedaling trinkets to tourists from that giant, rich northern country.

And yes, I realize that I added nothing to this thread.

[luckydevil]

Okay, I am unware of that, but the question is, do illegal immigrants deserve a job more than a legal citizen? Also do you account for population growth, which includes overcrowding in school?

Ah, the leftist argument against immigration. The environmentalist opposition to immigration deserves a different thread.

[Sarge]

quite the opposite

You're right, they don't cost us a dime

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060502/COL05/605020364/1009/EDIT

Illegal immigration is not just unfair line-jumping, it's expensive. Rep. Tom Tancredo, R-Colo., says illegals cost $35 billion in lost tax revenue, $2.5 billion in uninsured medical care, $28 billion for education and $1.8 billion in court and prison costs.

http://www.crosswalk.com/news/weblogs/kmc/?adate=04/29/2006

From the researchers at the Los Angeles Times:

40 percent of all workers in L.A. County are working for cash and not paying taxes.

95 percent of all arrest warrants issued for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.

75 percent of people on L.A.'s most-wanted list are illegal aliens.

Over two-thirds of all births are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal whose births were paid for by the taxpayers.

Nearly 25 percent of all inmates in California detention centers are here illegally.

Over 300,000 illegals are living in garages.

The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles are most likely illegals from south of the border.

Nearly 60 percent of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.

Of the 10 million people in Los Angeles County, 5.1 million speak English and 3.9 million speak Spanish.

21 radio stations in Los Angeles are Spanish speaking.

Less than 2 percent of illegals are picking crops but 29 percent are on welfare.

Over 70 percent of the U.S. annual population growth (over 90 percent of California, Florida and New York) are from immigration.

29 percent of inmates in the federal prisons are illegal aliens.

The lifetime fiscal impact (taxes minus services used) for the average adult Mexican immigrant is a negative.

They also send about $15 billion back to Mexico annually.

It cost Los Angeles $276 million in welfare costs for 100,000 children of illegal aliens.

[luckydevil]

If this was true, Los Angeles would have a booming economy, and the police chief and others wouldn't be clamoring to raise taxes to pay for such basic services as schools and police.

Why did a lot of hospitals in Southern California close in the past 15 years?

Just another part of lies, damn lies and statistics.

Blame the welfare state and the massive amount of red tape for the lack of a booming economy in LA. I can't imagine where that city would be without immigration.

[pez]

Ah, the leftist aurgment against immigration. The environmentalist opposition to immigration deserves a different thread.

Not being leftist... being honest... How would you feel if your child does not get the education they deserve, because they are in a classroom with 80 kids 30% being illegal?

[manleyistheman]

Once again I ask...isn't it possible to want our laws to be enforced without riding a hate-filled bandwagon?

Of course it's possible. However, when a complex issue is turned into a simple black and white issue instead of looking at all the factors involved that make it a much more complicated matter, I can't help but think that that conclusion was reached more by emotion rather than logic and reason and objectivity.

[The Evil Genius]

How would you feel if your child does not get the education they deserve, because they are in a classroom with 80 kids 30% being illegal?

I think I would do a lot of self reflection and see why I was failing my kid as a parent.

Good or bad education shouldn't be left in the schools hands solely.

[luckydevil]

Sarge, I have posted some studies on here. Look them up in the archive. Read the late Julian Simon (if you really want in-depth research) Oh and Tom Tancredo is a racist bigot.

[Fergasun]

luckydevil,

I'm not going to argue that illegal immigrants don't "grow the economy". I'm not going to argue people can crunch numbers and say "They are good for US".

I am going argue this: any benefit to the US economy is primarily because of the sheer number of consumers added, not because of their work. In short, poor people need to buy things from grocery markets, need gas for their cars, and need housing as well. Just because it makes those markets bigger, doesn't mean it has improved life for the average American.

[pez]

I think I would do a lot of self reflection and see why I was failing my kid as a parent.

Good or bad education shouldn't be left in the schools hands solely.

So what is the point of public school, if it is ineffective?

[manleyistheman]

As many people have explained, there is NO legal route for non-skilled labor.

In fact, I would go further and say that the illegals are working along WITH the system that is in place. I realize some of you don't want to or can't see that, but it's the truth.

[The Evil Genius]

So what is the point of public school, if it is ineffective?

Ineffective at what? Teaching kid rote memory skills? Providing new ideals and customs to kids? Allowing them to interact with others?

All would be measured in different ways, and not all would be impacted by overcrowded classrooms that have 30 children of "illegals".

[pez]

Look we can discuss the pro's and cons all we want, the fact is that they have entered the country in an illegal way... period.

[Fergasun]

And thanks for playing on today's episode of "expose an open borders lobby" agent.

The only reason we can't deport all these illegal aliens is because our goverment lacks the willpower to stand up against Mexico, and to stand up against big business.

Big business benefits not only from cheap labor, but also because now they can sell goods and services to that cheap labor. It's a cycle that needs to be broken. Rather than export goods, they import buyers.

[pez]

Ineffective at what? Teaching kid rote memory skills? Providing new ideals and customs to kids? Allowing them to interact with others?

All would be measured in different ways, and not all would be impacted by overcrowded classrooms that have 30 children of "illegals".

Teacher interaction with students drops increasingly with larger class size, not to mention language issues...

[Fergasun]

Furthermore, how dare you call people who want to enforce our laws racists and bigots. The law is same regardless of skin color.

[luckydevil]

luckydevil,

I'm not going to argue that illegal immigrants don't "grow the economy". I'm not going to argue people can crunch numbers and say "They are good for US".

I am going argue this: any benefit to the US economy is primarily because of the sheer number of consumers added, not because of their work. In short, poor people need to buy things from grocery markets, need gas for their cars, and need housing as well. Just because it makes those markets bigger, doesn't mean it has improved life for the average American.

Here is the thing; I believe immigration improves the average American life. Can we survive if we closed the border? Sure? We will just become poorer, much more so. Sarge talked about visiting the third world in another thread. What he and many don’t realize is that some of you are guys are proposing third world policies.

[Fergasun]

Immigration by definition is the legal crossing of borders. Why are you mixing up the debate by saying we are against immigration? Only open border activists act in such a manner.

We are talking about illegal border hoppers!