Henry Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 But you would be surprised how many people do not see it as offensive. I never realized till I read this thread that the flag was hated this much. That is what I want you to realize. I honestly had NO CLUE! This entire thread has been an eye opening expierance to me. I never knew it was hated this much. Is the song "Dixie hated just as much? Let me clarfiy something here, because I tend to get worked up in debates like this. I don't hate the South or anything. I DO understand that most who fought for the South did not do so because they loved slavery. I do not think the Northerners were a bunch of angels crusading against slavery and bigotry. I see the Civil War as a terribly tragic episode in our history. For everyone. Not just the North, but the South too. One side, however, seems to be insistant on glorifying their part in it, in romanticizing a culture that played a major role in the bloodiest war this country has ever fought, a war that was waged for our very existance on our own soil. I would like to think that 140 years later we'd have gotten to the point where we think of ourselves as Americans, and our heritage as American. Not Southern or Northern, but American. I have family in West Viginia who's ancestors fought for the South. I don't pretend they didn't exist. But I try and understand their role in our history without glamourizing it simply because I have some remote cultural connection to them. And I find it discouraging when I don't see this same effort made by my fellow Americans. That flag, at the very least, represents a deep cultural divide in this country. I don't understand this continuing need to foster it. I really don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huly Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Our history, OK. My family's history is filled with oppression from under both flags. Young Americans die every day over drug wars. That doesn't make either side right or a part of history that I would want to reflect upon in a prideful way. Why in this day and age does the South need its own symbol ? And if it does, why wouldnt people fly a flag that says Sweet Tea ? I have a friend that is racially prejudice (Clemson alum) and doesn't know it, but more so he hates ignorance. I am probably the only person of color that he even communicates with. Yet we share a common bond for a disgust of ignorance. I am not stating you do not have prejudice. There is still some people like that there but what is strange is I see more of it up here in the north than I saw back home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huly Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 I am not trying to get you heated up Henry! And I do see your point! Like I said I never thought that this was a big issue because it is not down there. I love my home and nothing could ever replace it. I tell pez all the time I live here but my home is SC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 I am not stating you do not have prejudice. There is still some people like that there but what is strange is I see more of it up here in the north than I saw back home. When I lived in Boston and Hartford, believe me I witnessed more than my fair share of prejudice. It exists even now. My ex-GFs brother was very familiar with the N word. Yet he never had the courage to say it to my face. Ironically most people would think that I am Latin as opposed to black (my mother is NA). In Metro DC, I only experienced it once as an adult. The difference is that in the North it is better disguised. Yet it exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 The difference is that in the North it is better disguised. Yet it exists. I wouldn't even go that far. Like I said in a previous post, the only time I ever have my nose rubbed in blatant and outward racism, it has been when I was in the northeast. And the upper midwest... Cleveland, Detroit, Toledo. Some SERIOUS racial tension in Detroit... probably the worst I've seen. Never seen ANYTHING even approaching it in the south. Not even close. Of course, that is simply my personal experience... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 I wouldn't even go that far. Like I said in a previous post, the only time I ever have my nose rubbed in blatant and outward racism, it has been when I was in the northeast. And the upper midwest... Cleveland, Detroit, Toledo. Some SERIOUS racial tension in Detroit... probably the worst I've seen. Never seen ANYTHING even approaching it in the south. Not even close. Of course, that is simply my personal experience... Detroit. Although the airport is very nice. Dont know about racism so much because I was only there for 3 days. But as far as first impressions go... In the South some people are more reserved it seems. They dont want to be labeled, pigeon-holed or judged. I have lived in Atlanta and Charlotte, I have family in Tennessee, Charleston, and Raleigh. Racism exists still throughout the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 No Kilmer it isn't false. The abolitionist movement had taken hold in the north before the civil war. Why do you think there was such a big deal about admitting free states and slave states in equal number? It's because the south knew that if the free states gained majority they would do outlaw it immediately. The south had in fact been using the "do it and we'll leave the union" threat from the days of our fouding fathers, it was nothing new. The South was already outnumber in Congress because to the disparity of population number between the North and South. The South did not feel if was getting a fair shake in the government. Much like the Dems feel today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Much like the Dems feel today So if it TRULY wasn't about slavery( :jerk: ), make a case for California and New York seceeding from the Union today. .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 So if it TRULY wasn't about slavery( :jerk: ), make a case for California and New York seceeding from the Union today. .... San Franfreako is on it's way I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 San Franfreako is on it's way I think :laugh: Can't argue that... you win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 The South was already outnumber in Congress because to the disparity of population number between the North and South. The South did not feel if was getting a fair shake in the government. Much like the Dems feel today Senate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 I think of LONG threads about the Civil War and slavery when I think of the Confederate flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winslowalrob Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 I think of conservative racist traitors, and anyone that flies the flag does not know anything about historical accuracy. War of Northern Agression? Umm, thanks for attacking us FIRST in Fort Sumter. And its not like the rebs never stepped foot in northern territory... where was Gettysberg again? I forgot. My only regret is that Sherman only stopped at the Sea. He should have gone up to Richmond and burned the vermin out of their dirty homes. It was a cultural war and a war over slavery. The South had an inferior culture, steeped in medieval notions of land-ownership, laborg, industry, and economics. And to those that think that slavery would just have died off anyways, there is this tight book that came out like 5 years ago pointing to its economic viability (Forgot the name, the author was accused of being a racist despite being married to a black woman, but thats another story). I strongly believe that slavery would have continued unless we put boot to the ass of those dixie punks and dragged them kicking-and-screaming out of their backwards existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 well allrighty then! .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 But you would be surprised how many people do not see it as offensive. I never realized till I read this thread that the flag was hated this much. That is what I want you to realize. I honestly had NO CLUE! This entire thread has been an eye opening expierance to me. I never knew it was hated this much. Is the song "Dixie hated just as much? That is exactly what I felt when it was pointed out to me in college, Huly. I didn't mean anything by hanging the flag except to identify myself as from Virginia, but the message I was sending to some people was very different. Sure, I could have just dug in my heels and said "get over it, I don't mean anything bad by this symbol," and refused to take it down, but really, what would be the point of that? Fair or not, this symbol is identified by a lot of people with something unwholesome, and I chose to recognise that reality and pick other ways of expressing myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 That is exactly what I felt when it was pointed out to me in college, Huly. I didn't mean anything by hanging the flag except to identify myself as from Virginia, but the message I was sending to some people was very different. Sure, I could have just dug in my heels and said "get over it, I don't mean anything bad by this symbol," and refused to take it down, but really, what would be the point of that? Fair or not, this symbol is identified by a lot of people with something unwholesome, and I chose to recognise that reality and pick other ways of expressing myself. Respect! :applause: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 San Franfreako is on it's way I think Hey! :mad: heheh You just jealous 'cause I live in paradise, hater :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NASMTrainer Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Well it is a good thing you're keeping an open mind and not generalizing. :doh:FYI... in my personal experience, I have encountered the most blatant and disgusting racism 9 times out of 10 in the northeast and upper midwest. I was going to say the same thing. Being from the south and now living in the NE I can honsetly say, the NE is way more racist than the south. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky21 Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 I am sorry, attempting to split the union over "states rights" is absolutley absurd, and the short sighted decisions by southern leaders in the 1850s has wrecked the south to this day OK. I'll bite. Explain how the South is wrecked. The original poster (who dropped out after starting the thread, I think) asked what the flag means to you. To me it means Southern Heritage. I understand to most it is a symbol of racism, which is a shame. I am so sick of everyone who lives South of the Mason Dixon line being painted with the broad brush of racism, I don't know what to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 The rebel flag is a SYMBOL. The whole point of SYMBOLS is to communicate a thought or an idea in the minds of OTHERS. You dont need a symbol to communicate your thoughts to yourself, you already know how you feel. So, even if you feel one way about what the confederate flag symbolizes, just know that the ideas that you are communicating to others is that you believe in what the South stood for, which most people believe is racism. Probably not the intended interpretation for most, but it is how it is. When 99% of people see you flying your Rebel flag, they dont think about the economic causes of the Civil War, and they dont think about the concept of States Rights. They think the Civil War was about 1 thing and 1 thing only. Slavery. And by extension, they see anyone proudly displaying the flag of the confederacy as a racist. Whether its true or not, it IS the perception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanos Posted February 2, 2006 Author Share Posted February 2, 2006 I wonder if people take into account why a flag of a rouge nation state would fly over certian state capitals? The Confederacy was a nation/state built on lies and the bondage of a group of people.We can wax poetic all the day long about the "heroic" rebs and all that propaganda.But they took up arms and left the Union .The reasons are debatable but like all US military actions the root was economic. When I see the flag, I see someone not respecting history.But someone who's for the status quo and wishing to return to a time when(insert what you like). But we as a nation get angry when immigrants fly flags of their native land. Oh yeah I started this thread and held back to see how others would spin the reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopper Dave Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 I am so sick of everyone who lives South of the Mason Dixon line being painted with the broad brush of racism, I don't know what to do. Stop displaying a flag that so many people associate with slavery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 I wonder if people take into account why a flag of a rouge nation state would fly over certian state capitals? I brought this up earlier and got no response. I couched it in terms of it being flown over the state capitols during the Jim Crow era. Another reason it is associated with racism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky21 Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Stop displaying a flag that so many people associate with slavery. Hey bro I don't fly that flag because it offends too many people. You live in FLA, right? You don't get sick of people associating the South with racism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 The rebel flag is a SYMBOL. The whole point of SYMBOLS is to communicate a thought or an idea in the minds of OTHERS. You dont need a symbol to communicate your thoughts to yourself, you already know how you feel. So, even if you feel one way about what the confederate flag symbolizes, just know that the ideas that you are communicating to others is that you believe in what the South stood for, which most people believe is racism. Probably not the intended interpretation for most, but it is how it is. When 99% of people see you flying your Rebel flag, they dont think about the economic causes of the Civil War, and they dont think about the concept of States Rights. They think the Civil War was about 1 thing and 1 thing only. Slavery. And by extension, they see anyone proudly displaying the flag of the confederacy as a racist. Whether its true or not, it IS the perception. Source for your numbers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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