What thoughts go thru your head when you see the Confederate flag?

[Ax]

What thought goes thru your head when you see the Confederate flag?

Cool summer nights fumbling around in the hay with Mary Jane Rottencrotch.

Dogs humping air.

Vermont in the fall.

Butterflys on wildflowers.

Now, what goes through your head when you see the US Flag?

The point is, you can see whatever you choose to see. All things can mean something different to someone else. The Confederate flag, in this case, is an easy target of choice for people to focus their indignation on without having to really do anything. As if getting rid of it would change anything, past or present.

Given enough time, people could be convinced that the couch was a racist invention brought about so that slave owners would have a comfortable place to rape black women.

Next we'll be changing the names of cities and states.

[Huly]

Lynyrd Skynyrd and Sweet Home Alabama

My all time favorite song!

[Huly]

I agree with the post that stated you have more racism in the North than you do in the south. You are going to have your idiots everywhere but I see more hatred up here than I ever did back home.

I have never realized there was so much hatred towards the flag till I read this thread. Back home it is not looked upon as a lot of you have stated. Everyone there associates it with history and just a symbol of the south. There are symbols of the war everywhere you look. In high school I regularly sat on top on civil war cannons over looking the water at Ft Sumter with friends to eat lunch. We also had Bible class (private school) in the gazebo on the battery. Underneath that ground is the old civil war prison. People sell the flag everywhere you look there and it is not in "redneck" stores. People of all heritages wear it. In the north more want to be “rednecks” wear it but in the south it is more everyday people than “rednecks”.

I think that most of the hatred to the flag is due to perception. For example some people wear “Malcom X” shirts. To me and most people that would not be offensive. To my father it is offensive as “Malcom X” burnt his house down during the Baltimore riots.

It is also how the media and some men have portrayed the flag over time. I can think of a few things in the south that should be more offensive than the flag yet it is some of the most popular tourist attractions.

I have actually enjoyed this thread. I have learned so many different views and opinions and it has opened my eyes to how others view the confederate flag. An aspect I have never seen before nor experienced.

[Chief skin]

An embarassing era in this country's history, and the people who display it just display there own ignorance

[codeorama]

I honestly think that where you live has a big influence in your perception.

Here SE Va, it is common to see rebel flags and I'm sure it's even more common the further south you go.

I know in our school district, we have a "Jefferson Davis Middle School" and a "Robert E. Lee Elementary School". The confederacy is not something everyone hides their head in shame over in this area.

I'll be honest, I'd never seen the "hatred" over the flag and the confederacy that has been shown within this thread. Not saying it's not justified or whatever, I'm just saying there's obviously a different mentality here. When I think of my great great uncle, I don't think of a traitor, I think of someone who fought for what they believed in at that time.

[rincewind]

I honestly think that where you live has a big influence in your perception.

Here SE Va, it is common to see rebel flags and I'm sure it's even more common the further south you go.

I know in our school district, we have a "Jefferson Davis Middle School" and a "Robert E. Lee Elementary School". The confederacy is not something everyone hides their head in shame over in this area.

I'll be honest, I'd never seen the "hatred" over the flag and the confederacy that has been shown within this thread. Not saying it's not justified or whatever, I'm just saying there's obviously a different mentality here. When I think of my great great uncle, I don't think of a traitor, I think of someone who fought for what they believed in at that time.

That's fine and great - and i understand taking pride in your past and all. But what it comes right down to with me is that that flag is the flag of another country's army - one who's whole existance was spent in war with my country.

[Henry]

First of all, noone wants to pretend the flag didn't exist. That would be erasing history. It's more a question of what that flag stood for then, and stands for today. I would argue that claiming slavery wasn't a major concern of the secessionists is a far bigger and more egregious attempt to erase history then simply claiming to find the flag offensive.

To me, the flag stands for the desire of some Americans to no longer BE Americans. It stands for people willing to raise armies and secede from this country, The United States of America, because they don't respect their fellow Americans and our system of government. Because they're loyalty to regional concerns is stronger than their national loyalty. And one of the HUGE regional concerns of that day was slavery.

When I see someone waving that flag now, I think either he wants to make sure to tell the world he feels more local pride than national pride, or he hasn't thought about any of this and his freinds have those flags and what the heck.

In the case of the former, I think that's a mindset with which I strongly disagree.

In the case of the latter, I think ignorance. And in most cases I admit I assume it's the latter.

In either case, I think the person has a Constitutional right to display the flag. I just find it unfortunate that they feel the need to do so. But hey, that's called living in a free and open society.

The picture of the swastika earlier was very clever. I would say that if I saw that in India I would think one thing, but if I saw it in Europe or America I'd think another. If the point is that symbols can mean different things to different people, then sure, I concede that. So tell me, does the flag represent anything other than Southern Pride to anyone?

[Kilmer17]

Do people feel the same animosity towards Mexican Flags? The kicked our ass pretty good at the Alamo.

Or what about Texas Flags? They were and most wanted to remain a seperate nation.

[Henry]

Can't we all just read the history books and finally realize the Southern States seceeded from the Union because Lincoln had US troops mobilized against Virginia.

Pretty much every history book I've ever read says that the Southern States started seceding before Lincoln even became President.

Let me throw out a little analogy. What if tomorrow bush decided to send US troops, not Guard but US military troops to california and attack anyone who didn't believe in the US war in Iraq? Would California and the states that shared it's views not be justified in rising up against the US? Times have changed and this may seem ludacris but times were different over a 100yrs ago.

That analogy only holds if California first decided to declare independence from the US because it disagreed with the election results that voted Bush into office. I GUARANTEE you that if that happened, Bush would send in troops, and I would fully support that decision.

[Destino]

Do people feel the same animosity towards Mexican Flags? The kicked our ass pretty good at the Alamo.

Or what about Texas Flags? They were and most wanted to remain a seperate nation.

Concerning Mexico, the Alamo did belong to them and slavery was involved in that conflict as well. The mexican flag didn't really do anything to america as much as americans did something to mexico.

[Kilmer17]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0965693260/102-4678814-0575307?v=glance&n=283155

Like when this happened in the 80's?

[Kilmer17]

Well the alamo did belong to Mexico....but they made the mistake of banning slavery. And well we know by now that this little point inspired a lot of fighting.

And our Constitution allowed slavery AND (more importantly) allowed states to secede from the union.

[Destino]

And our Constitution allowed slavery AND (more importantly) allowed states to secede from the union.

Right but Texas was part of Mexico, and had nothing to do with our constitution.

[Henry]

Do people feel the same animosity towards Mexican Flags? The kicked our ass pretty good at the Alamo.

Another not so great analogy. I expect more from my fellow Americans than I do from Mexicans.

Or what about Texas Flags? They were and most wanted to remain a seperate nation.

Yeah actually, I do find the whole 'Texas Pride' bit a little irritating for the same reason. The Texas flag, however, does not directly represent a Texan Army raised to wage war on her fellow states. The Battle flag does.

[zoony]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that because the KKK doesn't wave the Mexican flag during their marches... and that is the reason people don't harbor the same feelings towards the Mexican Flag. :doh:

*edit*

And I agree 100% with Henry on the Texas pride thing. Extremely annoying.

...

[Kilmer17]

The KKK does wave American Flags though.

[codeorama]

And our Constitution allowed slavery AND (more importantly) allowed states to secede from the union.

You hit the nail on the head here.

[zoony]

The KKK does wave American Flags though.

oh come on, man. Do I need to answer that one?

[Kilmer17]

Yes. If you are making the argument that the Conf is flag because it represents evil, and use as an example the KKK's use of it, you should have to explain why the same argument doesnt apply to the American Flag.

Both are used by the KKK for the same purpose. Why the double standard?

[rincewind]

And our Constitution allowed slavery AND (more importantly) allowed states to secede from the union.

Seced at your own risk - y'all tried and got whooped for it. Get over it. If only Lee had held back Pickett, huh?

[Kilmer17]

Seced at your own risk - y'all tried and got whooped for it. Get over it. If only Lee had held back Pickett, huh?

Who's y'all? I dodnt try and secede from anything.

[Kilmer17]

Here's the question I have-

If a person flies the flag on the Confederacy, do THEY get to decide what it means to them? Or is that decision making power designated to those it may offend?

And if the latter, does that rule apply across the board?

[Henry]

Well Kilmer, if the KKK only used the American Flag you'd have a great point.

However, because they use the American Flag in conjunction with the Battle Flag, and primarily the Battle Flag, their message is clearly that they advocate a combination of American and Confederate ideals.

If instead the KKK marched down the street with the American Flag and the Flag of Moose Lodge of Rhode Island, that would indicate to me that the KKK shared more similar views with the member of Rhode Island Moose Lodge than with any other American organization. At the present time, however, the Confederacy has that honor.

[zoony]

Yes. If you are making the argument that the Conf is flag because it represents evil, and use as an example the KKK's use of it, you should have to explain why the same argument doesnt apply to the American Flag.

Both are used by the KKK for the same purpose. Why the double standard?

The US flag represents the USA, and everything it currently stands for.

The Confederate flag represents the confederacy, and everything the confederate states stood for.

One thing the confederate states stood for was slavery. Another was secession, and yet another was rebellion. Hence the name 'rebels'.

The KKK has adopted the confederate flag as a lightning rod to rally discontents, bigots, and morons who want to change the face of the current United States. The reason is because of the flag's history. Similar to how many white supremecists use the Nazi flag.

During these protests, the confederate flag is on full display. They also mix in other symbols, such as the US flag, for a few reasons.

1. To mock the current US government

2. To provoke outrage and controversy among mainstream americans

3. To provide commentary on their 'target'... what they would like to see changed. In other words, they're not holding up a Japanese flag because they have no interest whatsoever in changing the princibles and ideals of the Japanese government.

4. To mask their true intentions. They often recruit members by claiming to simply be 'patriots', and wanting to save the USA. The US flag offers ammunition here... and many ignorant yokels buy it hook, line, and sinker.

NONE of those reasons for waving the US flag are intrinsic to the US flag. However, the reasons that the KKK flies the confederate flag are very much intrinsic, and do not involve transferance. They were there to begin with.

....

[rincewind]

Here's the question I have-

If a person flies the flag on the Confederacy, do THEY get to decide what it means to them? Or is that decision making power designated to those it may offend?

And if the latter, does that rule apply across the board?

The original question was what do YOU think when you see it. You can think what ever you want when you fly that piece of ****, i'm just telling you what i think it stands for.