ZoEd Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 If it makes it easier to accept by thinking the Civil war was fought over slavery then believe it. We'll just have to agree to disagree. I guess I've been reading different history books then you, they must have been printed in the South. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 So are we saying its money, or slavery, or different ideals ? Lot of discussion. Some I have read and some I have skipped over. To the original topic. I think of redneck southerners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Duncan, please read my last post - i apologized for the '99% redneck' comment and tried to explain that i personally don't necessarily see the flag as a racist symbol.For what its worth - i think its incredibly cool you have a flag that was flown in the war. I can certainly see how black folks are offended by the flag and we certainly don't raise it up the flag pole, but I know many good folks in the south that are not racist and don't share your view of that flag. If you were born and raised in the south it's inevitable that you had relatives that fought in the civil war. That stereotype is just as bad as any other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prophet Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 ok no one even responded to my post on this... so i'll ask it again... what do you say with "black rednecks" who wear redneck gear, and hats with the confederate flag on it, have front bumper tags as a confederate flag ect ect.... are they racist? I think its viewed differently from northerners than from southerners.... and I think the misunderstanding of it creates rascism. and wasn't VA part of the south? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 So are we saying its money, or slavery, or different ideals ? Lot of discussion. Some I have read and some I have skipped over. To the original topic. I think of redneck southerners. Well you are closed-minded and have probably spent very little time in the south. The portrayal of the new south in the media is very different that what you find if you actually live or spend time here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Isn't that erasing history because it offends you? And how do you know that 99% of people who wave that flag are ignorant rednecks? Did you take a poll? That is such an ignorant statement.My best friend is in the Sons of the Confederate Veterans and they fly the flag at every meeting. And guess what? There is a black member in his local chapter. And guess what else? There are other black members in other chapters in Virginia. Shocking, isn't it? A little FYI on the Sons of Confederate Vets. . . Sons of Confederate VeteransColumbia, Tenn. Since its founding in 1896, the Sons of Confederate Veterans (SCV) has restricted its membership to direct male descendants of Confederate veterans of the Civil War. The SCV has long claimed to be interested only in Civil War remembrance, and in fact passed an official resolution condemning hate groups in 1990. Still, it has also had, and still does have, a number of prominent members with white supremacist leanings. In 1996, Peter W. Orlebeke, the SCV's then-leader, said that slavery could be defended biblically, and wasn't really so bad: "[T]here have been times that I wish someone had said to me, 'I'll give you a job for the rest of your life.' " Today, although there are divisions within the SCV, its publications have clearly become more strident. The April issue of Alabama Confederate, for instance, included articles by key members of the League of the South, along with a condemnation of Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation as unconstitutional. Prominent SCV members include Michael Andrew Grissom, author of Southern by the Grace of God and a member of two white supremacist groups, the League of the South and the Council of Conservative Citizens; Donald and Walter Kennedy, charter League members; Jared Taylor, editor of the racist American Renaissance magazine; and Kirk Lyons, a long-time white supremacist lawyer. Asked about Lyons, SCV Commander-in-Chief Patrick J. Griffin told the Intelligence Report: "If Kirk has become controversial outside of the SCV, I would just view that as part of his personal life." The League has lauded the apparent change in SCV attitudes, saying in 1998 that the SCV "old guard" was on its way out and "the organization appears to be ready to work with us as a fellow pro-South group." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herrmag Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Well you are closed-minded and have probably spent very little time in the south. Yes. I used to have the same philosophy as "redneck southerners". Then I went to the south with my southern g/f. The manners displayed in the South almost convinced me to move there. Wow, some of us northerners live really close to a big and proud city, yet treat each other like garbage. Go down to the heart of it, and see how your wife or g/f is treated. Or when you ask someone for directions. This ideology of the south being full of dumb hicks should end. But who am I to end it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 A little FYI on the Sons of Confederate Vets. . . Ah, the liberal wonder from one of the most segregated cities in the US chimes in with his :2cents: I think we all know what side of the tracks you call home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Well you are closed-minded and have probably spent very little time in the south.The portrayal of the new south in the media is very different that what you find if you actually live or spend time here. I am closed minded ? how so ? I have lived in Atlanta, Charlotte and my family lives in Tennesee and most of my relatives live in Raleigh. That is the first thing I think of, period. haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Yes. I used to have the same philosophy as "redneck southerners". Then I went to the south with my southern g/f. The manners displayed in the South almost convinced me to move there. Wow, some of us northerners live really close to a big and proud city, yet treat each other like garbage. Go down to the heart of it, and see how your wife or g/f is treated. Or when you ask someone for directions. This ideology of the south being full of dumb hicks should end. But who am I to end it? I am not saying the south is filled with rednecks by any means. I am not saying that good ol' southern hospitality isnt a great thing that is widepsread and under recognized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Yes. I used to have the same philosophy as "redneck southerners". Then I went to the south with my southern g/f. The manners displayed in the South almost convinced me to move there. Wow, some of us northerners live really close to a big and proud city, yet treat each other like garbage. Go down to the heart of it, and see how your wife or g/f is treated. Or when you ask someone for directions. This ideology of the south being full of dumb hicks should end. But who am I to end it? It really is amazing how nice everyone is in the south. People take the time to shoot the bull with you everywhere you go, black and white. My neighborhood is 60% black and the block parties are a blast. The kids play and the adults fire up the grill and drink beer. I could do without the rap music but it's all good It's not about the amount of melanin in your skin, something folks in the north obsess over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Wow, someone got their panties all twisted up. What, are you and chommie lovers or something? :laugh: My god you are such a shallow and offensive troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Ah, the liberal wonder from one of the most segregated cities in the US chimes in with his :2cents: I think we all know what side of the tracks you call home Well, Boston is not like it used to be in terms of segregation, but it was horrible for in the 50's. We are the complete opposite now (see gay marriage). Back then, there were too many Irish and Italians in the city, yet I never understood why the racism came from them. I grew up in an Italian family and the older people 90+ are some of the most racist people I know. I just don't see how a person who has been on the other side of racism (Boston in the 30's & 40's was prejudiced against the Italians and Irish) can turn into a racist themselves. I am constantly throwing that stuff back at them during family dinners. They'll say just these horrible stereotypical fallicies, and I just don't see why thiey think the way they do, epsecially seeing how they were discriminated against when they were younger. I think it is a great social experiment though because it really shows the fallicy of man, it leads a light into the prisoner/guard dichotomy of society. They did a study on this type of behavior at Stanford in the 70's but I forgot what it was called. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prophet Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Well, Boston is not like it used to be in terms of segregation, but it was horrible for in the 50's. We are the complete opposite now (see gay marriage). Back then, there were too many Irish and Italians in the city, yet I never understood why the racism came from them. I grew up in an Italian family and the older people 90+ are some of the most racist people I know. I just don't see how a person who has been on the other side of racism (Boston in the 30's & 40's was prejudiced against the Italians and Irish) can turn into a racist themselves. I am constantly throwing that stuff back at them during family dinners.They'll say just these horrible stereotypical fallicies, and I just don't see why thiey think the way they do, epsecially seeing how they were discriminated against when they were younger. I think it is a great social experiment though because it really shows the fallicy of man, it leads a light into the prisoner/guard dichotomy of society. They did a study on this type of behavior at Stanford in the 70's but I forgot what it was called. I think I'm so tired I can't understand what you are saying, and the part I think I understand is scaring me because I think I agree.... so could you simplfy what you are saying... :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopper Dave Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Wow, someone got their panties all twisted up. What, are you and chommie lovers or something? :laugh: I think I've figured you out. You spew bull****, you draw people in by spewing bull****, and when someone finally calls you out on all of your bull****, you accuse them of overreacting. Grow up, and grow a pair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Its a heritige of treason and oppressionOnce again, for those denying that the Civil War had to do with slavery go back to page 7 of this thread and read Henry's posts It is pretty damn clear that the southern states were talking about the institution of slavery. That is why they were demanding "states rights" Don't bash my post till you go back and read Henry's posts a few pages back, because it is in black and white. The south wanted "states rights" to maintain the institution of slavery. And in order to maintain that unjust and dispicable institution, its leaders committed acts of treason and should have been shot at the conclusion of the war As for the sacred idea of a Union, its pretty simple, the blood of a few generations earlier was spilled over securing a union where the rights of all people were respected. If America were to have divided it would have opened back up the British and French adventures into America, and you'd be a subject of one of those empires. Yankee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waldo da Magnificent Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 My Grandfather was hung and burned by a group of sheet wearing SOB's hiding behind hoods and waiving Confederate flags. They are the reason that my Grandmother and her 9 kids got on a train from South Carolina and fled to New Jersey, the furthest point her money took them. To put this as politely as I can without being banned, I would like to send every *single* person waiving or displaying that rag to the place where they could discuss the hertigage of the flag with the victims it killed. There is NO difference between the Confederate flag and the Swastikas of the Third Reich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Just for you silly people who think the war was NOT about slavery, but was the "war of Northern Aggression"Give me a damn break, its up there in black and white Of course it was about slavery. It was also about states rights. I wish I had shipped some of my old history books and research that I did for my Bachlors over here. Essentailly, the country had grown into two separate countries, the industrial north and the agricultural south. That divide has festered since the Revolutionary War. While slavery had pretty much been done away with in the north by the time of the Civil War, it had it's own form of slavery with the sweatshops that had sprung up in the major sities. The south relied on slavery, although somewhere around 90% of folks in the South didn't own slaves. Again, I don't have my books to give exact figures. By the time the War of Northern Aggression rolled around it was mostly the plantation owners that owned slaves. Left alone, studies suggest slavery itself probably would have ground to a halt by the end of the 19th century. And you have to remember as well that the thinking back then was the polar opposite of what it is today in terms of what folks thought of the government. Today we are used to the government being the end all beat all. Back then everyone still thought that states rights came first and that powers that were not designated to the government fell to the states. I could go on, but I got into this thread late and the hour grows late as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 My Grandfather was hung and burned by a group of sheet wearing SOB's hiding behind hoods and waiving Confederate flags. They are the reason that my Grandmother and her 9 kids got on a train from South Carolina and fled to New Jersey, the furthest point her money took them. To put this as politely as I can without being banned, I would like to send every *single* person waiving or displaying that rag to the place where they could discuss the hertigage of the flag with the victims it killed. There is NO difference between the Confederate flag and the Swastikas of the Third Reich. You seem to mix up the two, although the klan was formed by an ex Confederate general, Nathan Bedford Forrest. To a lot of folks in the war, the common soldier, it was just about someone coming to take over their lands or their way of life. The Nazi analogy is off base Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Had southern leaders read the Declaration of Independence which many of their grandfathers had signed, in particular the line that said "All men are created equal" the whole treasanous mess could have been avoided Those traitors were lucky that Lincoln had enough time before his assasination to lay the ground work for re-construction and very lucky they were not shot as they should have been for splitting the Union If you would read that very same Declaration, it says in balck and white that the people reserve the right to throw off any government That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. And while you can say the the Declaration says all men are created equal, it is clear that teh Founders did not consider slaves "men", nor did they mean for the freedom for which they were fighting was to be conveyed to slaves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheREALJBird Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 There is NO difference between the Confederate flag and the Swastikas of the Third Reich. There is a HUGE difference....for the record it makes me think of the south, and it is NOT a symbol of racism, some just perceive it to be that way but at the same time people flaunt it in that way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Guy. Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 that people died trying to defend what that flag stands for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herrmag Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 that people died trying to defend what that flag stands for. Can I get a simultaneous "huh"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Guy. Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Can I get a simultaneous "huh"? didnt that flag represent the south in the civil war? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Can I get a simultaneous "huh"? That's what the poster thinks of when seeing the flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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