What thoughts go thru your head when you see the Confederate flag?

[SkinsHokieFan]

I'm getting a little annoyed with all the people who say "the confederate states committed treason." Of course they did. That's a truism. You aren't saying anything meaningful.

Treason isn't wrong in and of it self. It just means that a country has irreconcilable differences with whoever it is that's committing treason. Treason is only wrong if the the country is right and the traitor is wrong. I think that's the case in the civil war, however, in order to make an argument you have to go futher than calling the south's actions treason.

I think I did by comparing and contrasting the act of treason our founding fathers committed

The southern states had a voice, and had representation. They lost an election and bolted

Do you think the North would have left the Union if Lincoln was not elected?

[zoony]

That's a given. I guess I do have to print out this stuff ... again:

."

Note to self:

Never argue about the civil war or Art Monk's right to the HOF with Henry.

*edit*

Another interesting thing to throw out... this area of Tennessee (east) talked of seceeding from the state because it was filled to the brim with Union sympathizers. The reason? No plantations. Nashville and Memphis were full of them, however.

Also... West Virginia broke off from VA for the same reason. No plantations. They didn't have slaves. They wanted no part of the confederacy.

Honestly... I don't know how ANYONE makes the 'it wasn't slavery' argument with a straight face. :2cents:

.....

[just skins baby]

I have no thoughts at all on the confederate flag.

We're Irish!!!! :laugh:

[Huly]

Note to self:

Never argue about the civil war or Art Monk's right to the HOF with Henry.

.....

It should state:

Note to self..... Never argue about anything with Henry.

[scskin]

That's a given. I guess I do have to print out this stuff ... again:

South Carolina: "A geographical line has been drawn across the Union, and all the States north of that line have united in the election of a man to the high office of President of the United States, whose opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery."

Mississippi, the first three sentences:"In the momentous step which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course. Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth."

And Georgia's first two lines: "The people of Georgia having dissolved their political connection with the Government of the United States of America, present to their confederates and the world the causes which have led to the separation. For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery."

And lastly, Texas. Less specific, but here in paragrph three: "[Texas] was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery-- the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits-- a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time."

Henry, shame on you for letting FACTS get in the way of PERCEPTION!!!

[Cool Hand Loki]

We, as a people and a culture, should be ashamed and should be doing far more to remember.

Why should we all be ashamed? We should learn from it, to be sure, but to ask people today to feel shame over something that happened 150 years ago is a bit much.

[gchwood]

If slavery was just an excuse explain the Kansas-Nebraska Act or the Missouri Compromise. Explain why congress was so interested in keeping equal number of free states vs slave states admitted into the union? There was NO OTHER ISSUE included, just slavery. The only condition at the time was that 1 slave for 1 free and they battled it out this way as the US expanded west.

This is why Uncle Tom's Cabin is credited for being one factor that lead the nation to war. It lit a fire under the nations butt by exposing them to the reality of slavery pushing an already fast growing abolitionist movement. It's sales also evidence the major concern over slavery - it was the second best selling book of the century, the bible being first.

This is about the most ignorant post I have ever read. I respect you and all fellow skins fans, but to say that Slavery was THE ISSUE of the Civil War is stupid. What about all the men who fought that never owned a slave? Were they protecting the institution of slavery? THE MAJOR REASON for the Civil War was "perceived" economic oppression.

If it were about Slavery than, why was there not infighting in the north? The Mason-Dixon line was not some magical line that seperated Slavery from non slavery. There were slave owners in "non-slave" states, and a heck of a lot of non-slave owners in "slave" states. So obliviously there had to be another reason.

Again I reiterate, I am proud of the Stars and Bar, due to heritage and that my wive's decendants fought for what they beleived in. ANd I am proud of the Stars and Stripes for the men and women who have fought for what they believed in.

[SparkleMotion]

I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races - that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality.

- Abraham Lincoln aka "The Great Emancipator"

[england]

truck drivers

the reason i say this is that they have the flag in there cab

[Rumrunner6900]

What were the other reasons for the war? What are the other issues at hand?

Admittedly I don't have my history books in front of me, but let me put it to you in this light....

Today we have Democrats and Republicans (left and right). Generally, (please note that word!) the left would have a big government that control many facets of our lives (other than collecting taxes and providing for the common defense), many social programs, "safety nets" and the like....and taxes to support all of these. Generally, the right wants as small a government as possible that stays out of as many facets of our lives as possible. In other words, "this is my land, life, etc., stay out of it, I'll take care of it and no one else".

As I said, this is all generalized but does it sound familiar? I would say since this country was founded, that issues like these have existed under many different names, party affiliations, etc. But it does appear to be a regional thing to me. North vs. South. Just like the Civil War.

Am I happy that things turned out like they did? Yeah....I think this is the greatest country in the history of civilization. But understanding all viewpoints in reference to the Civil War will help us today understand it better. It was a lot deeper than just a flag and slavery.

[Predicto]

This is about the most ignorant post I have ever read.

You don't read very many posts here, do you? :laugh:

[SkinsHokieFan]

This is about the most ignorant post I have ever read. I respect you and all fellow skins fans, but to say that Slavery was THE ISSUE of the Civil War is stupid. What about all the men who fought that never owned a slave? Were they protecting the institution of slavery? THE MAJOR REASON for the Civil War was "perceived" economic oppression.

If it were about Slavery than, why was there not infighting in the north? The Mason-Dixon line was not some magical line that seperated Slavery from non slavery. There were slave owners in "non-slave" states, and a heck of a lot of non-slave owners in "slave" states. So obliviously there had to be another reason.

Again I reiterate, I am proud of the Stars and Bar, due to heritage and that my wive's decendants fought for what they beleived in. ANd I am proud of the Stars and Stripes for the men and women who have fought for what they believed in.

You need to re-read Henry's post

[zoony]

What about all the men who fought that never owned a slave? .

So every soldier currently in Iraq or Afghanistan was the victim of a terrorist attack?

:doh:

[Destino]

This is about the most ignorant post I have ever read. I respect you and all fellow skins fans, but to say that Slavery was THE ISSUE of the Civil War is stupid. What about all the men who fought that never owned a slave? Were they protecting the institution of slavery? THE MAJOR REASON for the Civil War was "perceived" economic oppression.

You misread it. It was not THE ISSUE as the civil war. It was THE ISSUE in adding new states and the Missouri Compromise and other political battles like it. It lead to sectionalism and created the hatred that would later lead to war.

Again I reiterate, I am proud of the Stars and Bar, due to heritage and that my wive's decendants fought for what they beleived in. ANd I am proud of the Stars and Stripes for the men and women who have fought for what they believed in.

You are free to be proud of whatever you want, but I believe some things are just plain evil. Slavery and the souths actions in the interest of preserving it for their own material gain is such a thing IMO.

I freely acknowledge that there was more to it then that, but I ask does any other reason make it better? What noble ideal held up by the south is so good and just that it excuses the association with slavery?

[Rumrunner6900]

Henry, shame on you for letting FACTS get in the way of PERCEPTION!!!

Do not discount perception...this thread is a prime example...all of us seem to perceive the confederate flag a different way with different justifications for our perceptions...some based on fact and some not, but just the same.

[Rumrunner6900]

I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races - that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality.

- Abraham Lincoln aka "The Great Emancipator"

No comment on this post yet? Surprising...what a guy.

[scskin]

I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races - that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality.

- Abraham Lincoln aka "The Great Emancipator"

Nobody is here extolling the virtues of Mr. Lincoln. This quote is not some great find. It is an attempt to keep the Country together by clarifying his position. Allow me to translate, " We don't have to extend rights to them, nor marry them. They will probably never ascend to the heights of our brotheren and should be treated as such. Enslaving them however, has become an extreme measure for which this country can survive without." :2cents:

[Predicto]

No comment on this post yet? Surprising...what a guy.

We have all read that quote a dozen times. Abe was a politician, and no one is saying he was perfect.

Ther peculiar institution of slavery was still the underlying cause of the civil war, and fair or not, the confederate flag represents sympathy with the South in that struggle.

[MissU28]

I saw Glory Road the other day (great movie, by the way)...and at one point in the movie some of the fans at one of the basketball games were waving confederate flags. I remember being like..."woah"....that's harsh...especially since there was a direct correlation between the flags and the members of that basketball team.

When I see confederate flags...I feel disgust. To me confederate flags stand for pro-slavery and anti-blackness. That, to me, is disgusting.

[Stophovr6]

I saw Glory Road the other day (great movie, by the way)...and at one point in the movie some of the fans at one of the basketball games were waving confederate flags. I remember being like..."woah"....that's harsh...especially since there was a direct correlation between the flags and the members of that basketball team.

When I see confederate flags...I feel disgust. To me confederate flags stand for pro-slavery and anti-blackness. That, to me, is disgusting.

Anti-Blackness? Bahahahahahahaha:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[70th Week]

if the civil war was about slavery how is it that african-americans did not become citizens until a long time after the civil war.Lincoln didnt free the slaves,he just told them that if they voted for him he would give them 40 acres and a mule. he just gave them the right to vote so that he wouldnt get impeached.Lincoln had slaves in the white house.thats what most history books wont tell you.just a political agenda.

[Huly]

Still can someone answer why people outside of the south have more hatred to the flag than those that are from the south? I have never understood that.

[Predicto]

Still can someone answer why people outside of the south have more hatred to the flag than those that are from the south? I have never understood that.

Because it feels like an "in your face" symbol when you don't see it very often.

[Huly]

Sorry I am just trying to understand all the different oppinions. Please do not think I am being rude to anyone.

[Henry]

if the civil war was about slavery how is it that african-americans did not become citizens until a long time after the civil war.Lincoln didnt free the slaves,he just told them that if they voted for him he would give them 40 acres and a mule. he just gave them the right to vote so that he wouldnt get impeached.Lincoln had slaves in the white house.thats what most history books wont tell you.just a political agenda.

I don't think anyone who studied the Civil War past the 3rd grade thinks the North fought the war to free the slaves. Noone here is arguing that. The North fought the war to preserve the Union, a union the South was willing to split from through violence in order to maintain slavery.

That's why we are discussing a Southern flag in this thread.

Still can someone answer why people outside of the south have more hatred to the flag than those that are from the south? I have never understood that.

Didn't I answer that? (though I am from the south, even if the rest of you don't want to claim Northern Virginia. )