Regarding those who toss personal insults at Joe Gibbs (mega-merge)

[Bang]

OK. Ok John,

Before I lose my effing mind. I hope to God that you aren't throwing that last jab at me. :mad:

BTW Gibbs is not holding to his word. (Not calling him a liar or a hypocrite, but what is it than????????????????)

This is a move by a coach that has NO QB! Not Brunell, Not Ramsey, Not Campbell. Perhaps we dial up Tim Couch and see if he is busy.

I haven't directed ANY post towards any one individual. If I do, I am not worried about calling them by name. As I said, I am tossing my comments directly at those dragging this to a personal level to toss insults at the coach regarding his integrity. If that's you, so be it. If not, so be it.

Anyway

Holding to his word? His word is as a football coach. Play well, or ride the pine.

what is his job?

to win footbal games, or make promises to players?

EVERY player in the NFL with very few exception knows their job is contingent on performance.

Why should Ramsey be any different?

Exactly what is it that he is owed?

By my viewing, I see a team building a big run game and a BADA$$ defense... what we need is a game manager who won't turn it over. Our record is not going to be based on our QB winning it or losing it for us.

In terms of game management, I'll take brunell, he doesn't make the deadly mental mistake.

In the last 3 years, I've seen Ramsey make the mental mistake plenty of times to see that I don't trust him to manage the game effectively.

But hey, that is only my opinion. i might be wrong. I am just sick of the people here who persist in going after the guy personally for a football decision.

~Bang

[ChocolateCitySkin]

He can make whatever QB decisions he wants. All I want are results. And if a mediocre Mark Ramsey along with CP is the solution I don't care. I'm sick of losing and with our talent there is absolutely no reason that the responsibility this year should not fall on the coaching. I want improvement.

[F Landry]

I am openly saying this is the first time I have questioned Gibbs decesion, and I admit I am disappointed.

I think Coach is playing scared, not to lose mentality..... instead of the old Gibbs, play to win style.

I hope I am wrong, but I think a possible playoff season, just dropped to best we can hope for is 8-8

I'm glad I can atleast relate to one of the Extreme Skin's veterans around here...

Patrick was not given a fair chance and that is all I am saying...

Joe is bias towards Patrick, even after all of the off-season of Joe saying that "Patrick is the Man."

I feel lied to...

EDIT:

Well, Bang I don't have time to wait here and listen to your bogus response to my post. So, I am going to go watch the Eagles get owned by the Falcons...

*Sings HTTR in a sad, monotone voice.*

[AzSkinsFan63]

I support Joe Gibbs...The man came back and put his honor and inegrity on the line with a league that hates the owner.

c-ya Ramsey....

My personal opinion is that Ramsey should still be the starter, But it's Gibbs team we could trade Ramsey tomorrow I could care less..

[Joeythetapeworm]

But a segment of people here have behaved like petulant children, have acted badly, and have, in my opinion, made us all look bad.

~Bang

And how is calling people ****s anymore mature than that sort of behavior? Everybody needs to tone it down a little bit if you ask me; direct insults regardless of who's making them only serve to escalate into more and more emotional responses. Most everyone on here has something intelligent to say and as I said, I agree with much of what you're saying. However, in my book, the ****s comment is in no way "better" than a personal insult towards our coach.

[Bang]

I'm glad I can atleast relate to one of the Extreme Skin's veterans around here...

Patrick was not given a fair chance and that is all I am saying...

Joe is bias towards Patrick, even after all of the off-season of Joe saying that "Patrick is the Man."

I feel lied to...

EDIT:

Well, Bang I don't have time to wait here and listen to your bogus response to my post. So, I am going to go watch the Eagles get owned by the Falcons...

*Sings HTTR in a sad, monotone voice.*

My bogus response?

HAR HAR!

Gibbs didn't lie to you.

He changed QBs.

Unless he requires the approval of the fans to do that, he hasn't lied to anyone.

As I said, Gibbs has been with Ramsey and seen a HELL of a lot more of them than any of us fans.

So if that is somehow bogus, i'd like it explained to me how.

And while we're at it , if anyone can justify calling the man a liar or a hypocrite based on a decision made in the course of being a football coach, I'd love to hear it.

~Bang

[Bang]

And how is calling people ****s anymore mature than that sort of behavior? However, in my book, the ****s comment is in no way "better" than a personal insult towards our coach.

I didn't claim to be mature, hell, you see my cartoons? Mature? LOL!

Again, I don't care if it offended anyone.

It was directed at a group that I still feel has made us all look bad. This issue is about the football team, not some people's notion of betrayal by a guy they likely never met.

As I've said, I don't have any problem with anyone questioning the coach. Note that Bubba has questioned the decision, and I haven't called him any names. I direct my use of the word "****s" to those folks who persist in this stupid notion that he is somehow a liar or a hypocrite for changing the QB. As if somehow he owed ramsey anything, and by pulling him, he deserves the people on this board to drag his name and reputation thru the mud as if he were some cheating spouse.

If it offended, than maybe it should have.

~Bang

[Streater101]

Were fans, not sheep. We don't have to agree with everything that this organization does, having an opinion is not a bad thing. You act like Brunell's never turned the ball over. (Flashback to Raven game last year, ring a bell?) How quickly people forget how bad he played last year. I bet half of you were calling for Brunells head as well. Gibbs is a hypocrite and a liar, it's just another stupid move by a organization that is out of touch with football. It's sad really, for a moment, I thought we had some complacency, but leave it to the skins to totally blow that out of the water. I know I shouldn't be typing, cause I'm pissed right now, but damn some consistency would be nice.

YES YES YES!!!!!

Exactly. I'll take it a step further and say some of the people on this site are being hypocritical as well. Since they can just so brutally assess Patrick's shortcomings as a QB, but gives Gibbs a pass for all of his questionable decisions. and don't give me that "benefit of the doubt" crap, cuz I already gave it to him last year when he took forever to sit Mark Brunell. At what point do we all just fess up and say that Joe is f'ing up?

[TankRizzo]

Consistency?

You mean like Ramsey's consitent ability to turn the ball over?

He's hardly been given the opportunity that you can say anything is consistant about him.

[Fred Jones]

He can make whatever QB decisions he wants. All I want are results. And if a mediocre Mark Ramsey along with CP is the solution I don't care. I'm sick of losing and with our talent there is absolutely no reason that the responsibility this year should not fall on the coaching. I want improvement.

Interesting, I agree with ChocolateCitySkin. I am sick of losing and sick of losing to Dallas. Whatever it takes to win, Gibbs and Co. need to get it done.

[Tarhog]

Were fans, not sheep. We don't have to agree with everything that this organization does, having an opinion is not a bad thing. You act like Brunell's never turned the ball over. (Flashback to Raven game last year, ring a bell?) How quickly people forget how bad he played last year. I bet half of you were calling for Brunells head as well. Gibbs is a hypocrite and a liar, it's just another stupid move by a organization that is out of touch with football. It's sad really, for a moment, I thought we had some complacency, but leave it to the skins to totally blow that out of the water. I know I shouldn't be typing, cause I'm pissed right now, but damn some consistency would be nice.

YES YES YES!!!!!

Exactly. I'll take it a step further and say some of the people on this site are being hypocritical as well. Since they can just so brutally assess Patrick's shortcomings as a QB, but gives Gibbs a pass for all of his questionable decisions. and don't give me that "benefit of the doubt" crap, cuz I already gave it to him last year when he took forever to sit Mark Brunell. At what point do we all just fess up and say that Joe is f'ing up?

I never thought I'd see the day when I'd see Joe Gibbs treated with such disgusting disrespect. You guys don't deserve to be called Redskins fans.

[CrossWalker]

It's funny that a lot of you clowns who claim "Gibbs is washed up" base this on ..

1. Last year.

We stunk for a variety of reasons, but one of the overriding things that happens when a team is on a coaching carousel is whoever takes over has to play with a bunch of guys drafted by other people.

In our case, we have guys drafted for teams built mostly by Marty Schottenheimer and Steve Spurrier,, two philosophies that are as different as night and day.

So of course, it stands to reason Gibbs will be able to mold that motley bunch into a champ overnight,, or some would have me believe.

and 2.

This decision on Ramsey.

It also seems to me that the overwhelming number of people posting this kind of drivel are people who are barely old enough to remember Gibbs ever coaching a game prior to last year.

Anyway, the point is, YOU bozos claim Gibbs is done based on this very short window of what you've seen, yet you are the same clowns who are criticizing him for making a decision based on (what you believe) is a very limited opportunity for Ramsey.

So, tell me how much sense that makes? It's ok for you to have knee jerk reactions, but then you criticize him for doing (what you believe) is the same thing.

Nevermind Gibbs has been in attendance of Every Ramsey practice and play for nearly 2 full years now. That couldn't possibly factor into his thinking, now could it?

Nah, it's just easier to ***** and complain and pretend we know what we're talking about. Nothing makes me feel better than seeing some 22 yr old or 17 yr old dope pretending to know more about what is going on than Joe Gibbs.

Frankly, I think alot of you should turn in your playbooks and go hang out in Dallas.

No wonder our stadium is a haven for opposing fans.

Sell your tickets, you fair-weather ****s.

Get lost.

~Bang

Agreed,

Gibbs won 3 super bowls with three different QBs, none of which are headed to the Hall of Fame. There is a monumental chance that he is infinitley more wise in the ways of what it takes to win football games than anyone trashing him on this website. It makes me sick to see people defend a QB with such a turn-over history. He threw 1 pick and fumbled twice in less than a half yesterday. PR just doesn't have what it takes right now. I am ashamed of anyone that is a fan of this team yet bashes Gibbs for benching a QB that won't hang onto the ball.

[Joeythetapeworm]

I didn't claim to be mature, hell, you see my cartoons? Mature? LOL!

Again, I don't care if it offended anyone.

It was directed at a group that I still feel has made us all look bad. This issue is about the football team, not some people's notion of betrayal by a guy they likely never met.

As I've said, I don't have any problem with anyone questioning the coach. Note that Bubba has questioned the decision, and I haven't called him any names. I direct my use of the word "****s" to those folks who persist in this stupid notion that he is somehow a liar or a hypocrite for changing the QB. As if somehow he owed ramsey anything, and by pulling him, he deserves the people on this board to drag his name and reputation thru the mud as if he were some cheating spouse.

If it offended, than maybe it should have.

~Bang

I don't think you're in the right to gripe about immaturity and making the board look bad when you're doing the same thing; delivering personal, emotionally charged insults.

That being said, I suspect that this line of conversation is going to continue to take us into the same sort of circular direction so I'm gonna bail on the thread for the moment and go watch MNF.

For the record, your toons were and continue to be very funny.

[TheSteve]

Please. Joe Gibbs is a hypocritical backstabber right now. That does not mean that he is not the best coach for the job, or that somehow Mark Brunell may end up playing well(I doubt it) but this decision should have been made weeks ago. To prey upon Ramsey's minor injury and take advantage of it like a vulture circling it's dying prey in the sky is not the kind of action we've come to expect from the tales of Gibbs.

Joe Gibbs oficially has no more time in my book. It's show me. No present blunders can take away his past accomplishments, but people let me tell you that this is no longer the past. The present is all that matters, and right now the present Gibbs has me scratching my head. Say it aint so Joe, and show us something in Dallas. Because if you think it's bad now, all hell is going to break lose if Brunell and company collapse in big D.

[knowledge]

It's funny that a lot of you clowns who claim "Gibbs is washed up" base this on ..

1. Last year.

We stunk for a variety of reasons, but one of the overriding things that happens when a team is on a coaching carousel is whoever takes over has to play with a bunch of guys drafted by other people.

In our case, we have guys drafted for teams built mostly by Marty Schottenheimer and Steve Spurrier,, two philosophies that are as different as night and day.

So of course, it stands to reason Gibbs will be able to mold that motley bunch into a champ overnight,, or some would have me believe.

and 2.

This decision on Ramsey.

It also seems to me that the overwhelming number of people posting this kind of drivel are people who are barely old enough to remember Gibbs ever coaching a game prior to last year.

Anyway, the point is, YOU bozos claim Gibbs is done based on this very short window of what you've seen, yet you are the same clowns who are criticizing him for making a decision based on (what you believe) is a very limited opportunity for Ramsey.

So, tell me how much sense that makes? It's ok for you to have knee jerk reactions, but then you criticize him for doing (what you believe) is the same thing.

Nevermind Gibbs has been in attendance of Every Ramsey practice and play for nearly 2 full years now. That couldn't possibly factor into his thinking, now could it?

Nah, it's just easier to ***** and complain and pretend we know what we're talking about. Nothing makes me feel better than seeing some 22 yr old or 17 yr old dope pretending to know more about what is going on than Joe Gibbs.

Frankly, I think alot of you should turn in your playbooks and go hang out in Dallas.

No wonder our stadium is a haven for opposing fans.

Sell your tickets, you fair-weather ****s.

Get lost.

~Bang

Well done Bang!!! :logo: :helmet: A real fan from birth to death

[sableholic]

You know what, I'm tired of these sayings

"Joe Gibbs knows best. Don't question Joe Gibbs. Blah Blah Blah"

"Notice how all these comments are from people who are to young to have seen the old gibbs"

"Ramsey gave the ball up 3 times"

For the first one I say this, I don't ever claim to know more than joe gibbs. That has nothing to do with most peoples anger over what has happened today. The people who do claim to know more than gibbs are obviously wrong and know nothing about football. However, the people who don't need say that obviously aren't implying that and that is not the idea they are trying to convey. Myself and many other skins fans are not angry because we think we know best or because we think ramsey is the best solution. We are angry because of how this situation was handled. Since gibbs got here he has placed zero trust in ramsey. Last season we all had to go through brunell for way to long. This season when gibbs has announced all preseason and offseason that ramsey is the starter and that they will stick with him. What happens? He is replaced after only three series. Three series. Come on thats not sticking with Ramsey. Thats yanking him the first chance. In today's press conference he talks about how he wants consistency at the QB position. Don't say that. That can't be what you want if you are yanking Ramsey after 3 series. If you didn't like his play just say it. Don't feed us a line when we can tell its not true. Ramsey did nothing to lose the starting job. Brunell did nothing to gain the starting job. End of story. He yanked Ramsey around.

For the second one I say just stop. Its usually not true. A lot of who are complaining have seen the gibbs of old. We also know that gibbs is a coach, a great coach, but still a coach. Don't say his past means we can't question him. He is a person, like any other person and can make mistakes (ie the way he handled this). He like any other person can be questioned. If you don't think so then your crazy. Theres faith in your coach and your team, and then theres just plain dumb blind faith. I have been a redskins fan all my life, I'm not a fair weather fan. I've been through the thick and thin. Lets see I've seen the super bowl years, I've seen the gabillion coach changes all the way back to the current gibbs era. Stop assuming that you are better Redskins fans then everyone else. You know just because someone wasn't alive during the good years doesn't mean they aren't as good a fans as you all. In fact the fact that they stuck through without any of the good years probably speaks a little more.

And to the last one, he had two turnovers. The third one was after a called back td and a illegal hit that should have been a 15 yd penalty which would have given us first and goal. After the first int he calmed down a lot and made a lot of great third down conversions. He made our offense look actually like it could open up. Then when brunell came in he threw a int on his first play that got called back. But don't tell me that was a great pass either. And then it was dink and dunk from there. reminiscent.

[syl58]

if you(not directed towards any individual) dont like the team, go be a cowboy's fan or something.

you have no say in what happens, the best you can do is support the team and hope for the best. :dallasuck :helmet: :logo: :cuss:

[sableholic]

oh and also don't forget the production at the end of last year. ramsey looked a lot better with that offense then brunell did.

[JCav06]

all i gotta say is amen.

[Saqs]

You make some valid points, but you cannot ignore or discount what took place during summer/training camp, practice and during the pre-season.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Could you have added this to one of the 2q452345234534 threads?

[Spaceman Spiff]

YES YES YES!!!!!

Exactly. I'll take it a step further and say some of the people on this site are being hypocritical as well. Since they can just so brutally assess Patrick's shortcomings as a QB, but gives Gibbs a pass for all of his questionable decisions. and don't give me that "benefit of the doubt" crap, cuz I already gave it to him last year when he took forever to sit Mark Brunell. At what point do we all just fess up and say that Joe is f'ing up?

Gibbs has earned the right to get a pass. Ramsey hasn't earned ****.

Livestrong is right, i totally agree.

Gibbs wins three rings in 10 years, basically can do no wrong in this city....comes back for a ****ty team that he inherited from a ****ty coach. A qb battle breaks out and all of a sudden Gibbs has fallen from grace.

I'm not saying we can't disagree with him, we can. It's our right as fans to do so.

However this move today doesn't warrant bashing Gibbs, the man who led the team to glory 3 times and one of the best coaches ever. I've seen some pretty hateful **** spewed at him on here over the past few hours.

If you disagree thats fine. Just don't start bashing Gibbs. There's a classy way to go about things and some posters on here aren't.

[Grumpy Vet]

Blind unquestioning allegiance scares me.

[Thiebear]

Have any of you witnessed a Joe Gibbs mistake in the last thirty years?????????

Guess what I have.. I have seen the worst of Joe Gibbs and it isn;t pretty

Hey, you said you were leaving.. you know if if Gibbs said that you'd call him a liar

[Shumwayd]

What is with Gibbs, he gave Brunell until the 8th or 9th game before he pulled him. Sounds like a desperate man to me. I hope the Redskins lose every game from here on out.

I didn't claim to be mature, hell, you see my cartoons? Mature? LOL!

Again, I don't care if it offended anyone.

It was directed at a group that I still feel has made us all look bad. This issue is about the football team, not some people's notion of betrayal by a guy they likely never met.

As I've said, I don't have any problem with anyone questioning the coach. Note that Bubba has questioned the decision, and I haven't called him any names. I direct my use of the word "****s" to those folks who persist in this stupid notion that he is somehow a liar or a hypocrite for changing the QB. As if somehow he owed ramsey anything, and by pulling him, he deserves the people on this board to drag his name and reputation thru the mud as if he were some cheating spouse.

If it offended, than maybe it should have.

~Bang