Regarding those who toss personal insults at Joe Gibbs (mega-merge)

[Tarhog]

Blind unquestioning allegiance scares me.

Even if its faith in an unproven individual QB's potential?

[Tarhog]

What is with Gibbs, he gave Brunell until the 8th or 9th game before he pulled him. Sounds like a desperate man to me. I hope the Redskins lose every game from here on out.

Congrats.

Thats the saddest first post I've seen in my 4 years here.

[sableholic]

unproven eh? like say brunell in a skins uniform? ramsey played strong last year when he came in. can you say the same about brunell? And stop the preseason talk. its preseason. most star qbs didnt do good. I think both mcnabb and brady had ints in their first pass or at least first game.

[sableholic]

tarhog just read my post a page back that they merged in.

[Streater101]

I never thought I'd see the day when I'd see Joe Gibbs treated with such disgusting disrespect. You guys don't deserve to be called Redskins fans.

I'm sorry Tarhog. I can only describe what I'm looking at, and not some self created portrait of sugar plums and rainbows.

We're moving backward as a franchise right now. The team invested reps, and valuable preparation time to make Patrick the starter. I sat here and defended Joe post after post after post when everyone got up in arms about him not being definitiive about Patrick's status as the starter, but enough is enough.

You wanna know why we're picked to finish last, we're a franchise in disarray, or that we're self destructing? BECAUSE WE ARE. We'll never get the chance to become sucessful, because we're so inconsistant. Whether its a coach, offensive philosphy, QB, whateva. Even Joe Gibbs said himself "3 superbowl wins means NOTHING right now" I find it ironic some are so resistant to understanding this, when they're so eager to swallow whateva else Joe does or says.

[CHUBAKAH]

He's hardly been given the opportunity that you can say anything is consistant about him.

Why do you same people keep crying, "not given opportunity"? This is his forth season to show something. Get a clue.

How can people be so friggin blind?

I just don't get this from you so called fans of the Redskins.

In case ya hadn't heard, this is a TEAM Sport.

:dallasuck

[bleedbng86]

lord, are we Washington Ramsey fans or Washington Redskin fans? im not on either side, im on the redskins side.... i support whatever the REDSKINS do, regardless of what anyone is gonna say to me in following posts

[Grumpy Vet]

Even if its faith in an unproven individual QB's potential?

Absolutely......

I find some of this blind faith in Gibbs scary.

I find some of this blind faith in Ramsey scary.

I don't agree w/ the decision. However, I don't wish ill will on MB or think Gibbs is a crackpot.

This is my team. I want what is best. I want to win.....but I'm aghast at the black or white - no shades of gray.

I can see having blind faith in an idea or "team".....but in one person that obviously has foibles - is just scary.

[bulldog]

Patrick Ramsey has not shown in 4 years that he is a player with a learning curve that is trending upward. To me he looks a lot like the player that first took the field for the team back in 2002.

He still throws picks on late throws and throws into coverages. He still takes blind side sacks and doesn't have a feel for the rush. He doesn't hold onto the ball when he gets hit...........

I don't know if some of these are things you grow out of as an NFL quarterback.

Again, as I have posted on other threads, there is an open question I think as to whether Ramsey has a true feel for the pro game.

He has size and the arm. He has the raw intelligence. But does he have the requisite FOOTBALL intelligence?

Joe Gibbs doesn't think so.

That doesn't bode well for PR.

[CHUBAKAH]

Absolutely......

I find some of this blind faith in Gibbs scary.

I find some of this blind faith in Ramsey scary.

I don't agree w/ the decision. However, I don't wish ill will on MB or think Gibbs is a crackpot.

This is my team. I want what is best. I want to win.....but I'm aghast at the black or white - no shades of gray.

I can see having blind faith in an idea or "team".....but in one person that obviously has foibles - is just scary.

You know what's even more scary? The fact that a blind man can see Ramsey aint got "It", and will NEVER be more than a backup in the NFL.

To me, that's scary :2cents:

[Tarhog]

I'm sorry Tarhog. I can only describe what I'm looking at, and not some self created portrait of sugar plums and rainbows.

We're moving backward as a franchise right now. The team invested reps, and valuable preparation time to make Patrick the starter. I sat here and defended Joe post after post after post when everyone got up in arms about him not being definitiive about Patrick's status as the starter, but enough is enough.

You wanna know why we're picked to finish last, we're a franchise in disarray, or that we're self destructing? BECAUSE WE ARE. We'll never get the chance to become sucessful, because we're so inconsistant. Whether its a coach, offensive philosphy, QB, whateva. Even Joe Gibbs said himself "3 superbowl wins means NOTHING right now" I find it ironic some are so resistant to understanding this, when they're so eager to swallow whateva else Joe does or says.

All teams 'invest' in QBs, lots of them....lots of money, lots of time, and lots of disappointment are involved. The vast majority of NFL QBs never have major success. This isn't a fraternity guys - its an NFL football team. This is Gibb's SECOND year, to hear you guys tell it, he's had a Norv Turner run and just cut Brett Favre in his prime.

And I don't care how you rationalize it, you throw around words like 'liar', 'hypocrite', etc....or urge on those who do, you're just not a real fan in my book.

Sorry.

And all those showing their rear ends in 20 different threads tonight better hope to God Brunell and Gibbs don't take us to the playoffs this year, because you will never live it down.

Disagreeing with the timing, the decision, whatever, thats fine. I like Ramsey, and I wanted him to light it up this year. But I'm a Redskins fan, not Patrick's brother-in-law. And Joe Gibbs deserves more respect than you all are showing him.

[Grumpy Vet]

I do look forward to the Friday chat w/ Coach to find out what it is like to walk on water.......and if his shoes get wet.

In all fairness - Pat could have been asked the same question tonight on Comcast.

[bleedbng86]

And all those showing their rear ends in 20 different threads tonight better hope to God Brunell and Gibbs don't take us to the playoffs this year, because you will never live it down.

:applause:

[Bang]

I don't think you're in the right to gripe about immaturity and making the board look bad when you're doing the same thing; delivering personal, emotionally charged insults. .

Fair enough, I am reacting to hours worth of people posting the things I found to be offensive, and spoke up about it. By this logic, a parent that tells a screaming child to shut up is acting as badly as the child.

That being said, I suspect that this line of conversation is going to continue to take us into the same sort of circular direction so I'm gonna bail on the thread for the moment and go watch MNF.

For the record, your toons were and continue to be very funny.

Thanks, but unnecessary, I'm not personally arguing with anyone in this thread, you or redskinbill are fine by me, and I haven't felt as though our debate here was headed into a bad place.

And it's ok to think I'm a d1ck and still like my toons. :laugh:

And honestly, if it was a few folks that had said some of these things, I wouldn't care, but the overwhelming flavor of the board over the last few hours has been that somehow Gibbs is a betrayer, that he owed ramsey something, that his integrity as a man should be trashed.

That is bothersome to me. We can all debate the decision without having to try to drag the man thru the mud.

~Bang

[Grumpy Vet]

You know what's even more scary? The fact that a blind man can see Ramsey aint got "It", and will NEVER be more than a backup in the NFL.

To me, that's scary :2cents:

If coach Gibbs feels PR doesn't have it - I'm fine w/ that....but are you telling me that epiphany hit Gibbs during those 1st three drives yesterday?

That I find hard to believe....if MB was our man - he should have started yesterday.....no matter what Gibbs said last season.

[Bang]

We're moving backward as a franchise right now.

Right NOW we're an undefeated franchise.

~Bang

[Walking Deadman]

I have to trust in Gibbs........

It was 4th and 1 on the 1 of Chicago, we were looking decent.

I wanted the TD, coach said FG.....we win 9-7.

I'm not happy with the pass game and I would like our Red Zone run game to score some TD's.

I like Ramsey....he was putting up some good pass #'s but... he fumbled twice and threw an INT, can't do that against Dallas and win.

I hope Brunell can get the job done.....

[Streater101]

All teams 'invest' in QBs, lots of them....lots of money, lots of time, and lots of disappointment are involved. The vast majority of NFL QBs never have major success. This isn't a fraternity guys - its an NFL football team. This is Gibb's SECOND year, to hear you guys tell it, he's had a Norv Turner run and just cut Brett Favre in his prime.

And I don't care how you rationalize it, you throw around words like 'liar', 'hypocrite', etc....or urge on those who do, you're just not a real fan in my book.

Sorry.

And all those showing their rear ends in 20 different threads tonight better hope to God Brunell and Gibbs don't take us to the playoffs this year, because you will never live it down.

Disagreeing with the timing, the decision, whatever, thats fine. I like Ramsey, and I wanted him to light it up this year. But I'm a Redskins fan, not Patrick's brother-in-law. And Joe Gibbs deserves more respect than you all are showing him.

Liar may have been extreme, but when you talk about consistancy at the QB position, then yank the guy you so admantly named the starter and leader of your offense after 3 series shows me you're being anything but consitant. That just screams everything but consistancy. To add injury to insult, we had to brutally watch Brunell go out, and play poorly week, after week, after week, wasting tremedous efforts by our defense - all for the sake of "consistancy"

How can you look at those circumstances and call that anything but hypocrisy? I love the Redskins. I love Joe Gibbs, because he brought glory to the Redskins. If he is making decisions that I feel are hurting the Redskins, I don't deserve to be a fan? Thats pure bullsh!t

[Streater101]

Right NOW we're an undefeated franchise.

~Bang

Last I checked they don't hand out trophies after one week of play. Maybe I'm missing something and I'm a little uninformed since I haven't been alive for 4 decades. Why don't you help me understand

[The Sisko]

Gibbs has earned the right to get a pass. Ramsey hasn't earned ****.

Livestrong is right, i totally agree.

Gibbs wins three rings in 10 years, basically can do no wrong in this city....comes back for a ****ty team that he inherited from a ****ty coach. A qb battle breaks out and all of a sudden Gibbs has fallen from grace.

I'm not saying we can't disagree with him, we can. It's our right as fans to do so.

However this move today doesn't warrant bashing Gibbs, the man who led the team to glory 3 times and one of the best coaches ever. I've seen some pretty hateful **** spewed at him on here over the past few hours.

If you disagree thats fine. Just don't start bashing Gibbs. There's a classy way to go about things and some posters on here aren't.

My feelings exactly. I don't agree with Gibbs' decision and I don't have a problem saying so. However I draw the line at all the personal insults that have been thrown at a man who has brought us 4 trips to the S.B. and 3 Lombardi Trophies. It's just downright disrespectful and ungrateful.

Even if its faith in an unproven individual QB's potential?

Wrong answer Tarhog. I don't think anyone has blind faith in PRam. However, for Gibbs to yank a guy after an injury with only one quarter of work is very inconsistent with his prior history of sticking with his QB. In this case I think it's just that he wants a more veteran QB. However, the problem is that I don't think Gibbs is taking into account that the game has changed a lot and he's just not going to have the luxury of having players for 4 or 5 years before he puts them on the field.

What this means for the team is that we'll probably send Ramsey to another team without having adequately evaluated what he can do on the field...most likely in exchange for a 2nd or 3rd round pick. Furthermore, we'll do so without taking into account that there's no way to know when the light will switch on for an NFL QB and Ramsey hasn't been given enough snaps in Gibbs' offense to see if he's ever going to figure it out. Now he may be a perennial backup QB or he may be a future star. I just don't think we've seen enough of him to say for sure one way or the other.

So yes, in short I think Gibbs is making a mistake with this decision but I won't stoop to calling him names or questioning his sanity etc. I'll leave that foolishness to the folks with mental ages smaller than their shoe sizes.

[jimster]

Consistency?

You mean like Ramsey's consitent ability to turn the ball over?

A Hypocrite and a liar?

You do realize that a football coach's job is to try to win games, right? Not protect feelings? If a guy isn't getting it done, he's got to go. The bottom line is the W, not some ideal of perfect harmony between players and coaches and fans.

Out of touch, eh? Looks to me like we have a dominant defense and a very powerful running game. Let's see,,, how many teams have ridden that recipe to the super bowl? Hmm.. I wonder.

What we need at this point is a game manager. Ramsey seems to have a hard time managing a game, unless you've seen something I haven't. We need a guy who won't throw INTs.. another thing Ramsey has a hard time doing.

Because Ramsey was drafted by Spurrier, a guy who never DID have a touch of pro football.. Gibbs is somehow obligated to give him the long rope?

I ask a simple question. Why? Simply because he SAID SO? This is football. Perform or be replaced.

When this team wins with it's outstanding defense and powerful running game, I expect you to give us either

A/ an apology thread

or B/ your resignation as a fan of the team.

Enough of this crap. Ramsey is a professional football player. It's his fourth year. He's a big boy. Coaches don't "lie" to football players. Every player that there is realizes his job is contingent on performance. If your performance is not up to snuff, you gotta go, plain and simple. Every starter in the NFL with few exception is playing with the knowledge that he can be replaced.

It's the nature of the game.

Enough of this "Gibbs is a liar" junk. Seriously,, pretend you know a little bit about how this game works.

~Bang

Good stuff, Bang.

I admit I'm disappointed, but not in Gibbs, but Ramsey. - He had every opportunity to be THE GUY, but every person on this board noticed that he looked like a rookie again in the pre-season and this crap has to stop.

To me, it looks like Gibbs has decided to not wait around for his QB.

[CHUBAKAH]

If coach Gibbs feels PR doesn't have it - I'm fine w/ that....but are you telling me that epiphany hit Gibbs during those 1st three drives yesterday?

That I find hard to believe....if MB was our man - he should have started yesterday.....no matter what Gibbs said last season.

As a huge fan of this TEAM, all I can say is:

Gibbs gave Ramsey the rope, and he went out there and hung himself.

If Brunell goes out there now and it seems like his play falls off, I want Campbell in there next. I want to win, and for me I am happy as a fan of the Team, and think this move to change the starter "Right now" is a fantastic move.

Now, when we have a week to gameplan for a left hand QB, and all the plays are praticed All Week, I expect to see more of the same game we saw in preseason from Mark Brunell.

*Note to Jason Campbell

Get ready my Brotha, Chewy's got your back!

I like the sparkel, or the glimmer of hope you bring to my team. Study those plays up.

[Tarhog]

Wrong answer Tarhog. I don't think anyone has blind faith in PRam. However, for Gibbs to yank a guy after an injury with only one quarter of work is very inconsistent with his prior history of sticking with his QB. In this case I think it's just that he wants a more veteran QB. However, the problem is that I don't think Gibbs is taking into account that the game has changed a lot and he's just not going to have the luxury of having players for 4 or 5 years before he puts them on the field.

What this means for the team is that we'll probably send Ramsey to another team without having adequately evaluated what he can do on the field...most likely in exchange for a 2nd or 3rd round pick. Furthermore, we'll do so without taking into account that there's no way to know when the light will switch on for an NFL QB and Ramsey hasn't been given enough snaps in Gibbs' offense to see if he's ever going to figure it out. Now he may be a perennial backup QB or he may be a future star. I just don't think we've seen enough of him to say for sure one way or the other.

So yes, in short I think Gibbs is making a mistake with this decision but I won't stoop to calling him names or questioning his sanity etc. I'll leave that foolishness to the folks with mental ages smaller than their shoe sizes.

I beg to differ - I think lots and lots of folks here have more than blind faith in Ramsey, they're letting the fact that he's a hell of a nice guy and is admirable on a number of levels color their assessment of his play.

Ramsey isn't a 2nd year QB. You can say he's had kind of an unfair ride, and I wouldn't dispute that. Spurrier probably set Ramsey back 2-3 years, allowing him to take a pummelling he's incredibly lucky to have survived. I feel for Ramsey as a person. But he's had a LOT of chances Yusuf - lots of games to step up and take it to the next level. And what I've seen is flashes, and some decent performances. But never enough to make me feel real confidence in him.

I don't feel much better with Brunell. But I see a huge difference in his play from last season, and I don't think theres any question he plays the position with more QB smarts and savvy than Ramsey has at this point. That may be the best we can do right now.

As for the timing of pulling him, I side with those who say it would've been better to make the call in pre-season. But I defer to Gibbs and I think he'd just seen one too many throws right into a defenders arms. Contrary to some of whats been posted tonight, I don't think there'd be anyone happier for Ramsey than Joe Gibbs to see Ramsey start lighting it up and become the next Joe Montana. I think Gibbs has had a growing feeling in his gut it was never going to happen. And its quite possible he's right.

Bottom line in this thread is, its fine to argue, disagree. Thats what we do here. But calling Gibbs a liar and a hypocrite. Thats too much. And I know we agree there.

[CHUBAKAH]

But calling Gibbs a liar and a hypocrite. Thats too much. And I know we agree there.

I wish everyone did feel that way.

Some of the things said here today really trouble me.

[Doctorfro]

Mark it down: this is Gibbs last year. He's lost the respect of the majority of fans and, I would imagine, most of the players. Unless he leads this team to the playoffs, stick a fork in him......he's done.