NastyBoy Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 Livestrong who said anything about comparing the two positions. I am just saying that if you are going to have a short lease at the QB position you should do it at evey position. By no means am I comparing the two. You can only make a move like that if you have depth and talent at the position. Brown hasn't had time to be taught and develop, and shouldn't be benched, at least yet. When the window of opportunity for his development closes, and he's still not performing, he'll get the same hook PR got. We're not there yet with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boobiemiles Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 Gibbs should know: God don't like ughly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Prime Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 You have it mistaken bro. You are using that weak platform. It does not matter how many quarters you play. It's about the attempts. It's not like Ramsey was sitting back there picking the Bears apart. He was the beneficiary of moss breaking a tackle and taking it down the field. Quarters mean absolutely nothing though man, it's about the attempts. I'll agree with that.. You've already been quoted as saying Brunell had 3 more attempts then Ramsey.. If that's accurate then your argument falls flat.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NastyBoy Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 Bobzmuda, That was a brillian post. I especially liked the "livejournal" link. Nice touch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernie5 Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 It's actually about moving the offense. Gibbs obviously feels Brunell does a better job of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzmuda Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 Again, how can one quarter (3 drives) be construed as "every opportunity". Please explain that to me. Please. Here you go: offseason mini-camps, OTA's, training camps, pre-season games, and practices. 99% of which you didn't see. Gibbs went out of this way to keep his word to Ramsey that he would start despite Ramsey's inability to protect the ball NOT just in the Bears game, but all off-season and in the pre-season games. Even in the pre-season games, Ramsey was averaging about 2 turnovers per 60 minutes of football. That's not acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Prime Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 So off-season mini-camps, OTAs, training camps, practices don't count? Sure they do, and the reports from those was that Ramsey was progressing and looked good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boobiemiles Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 And when will this team get a big body for the red zone? Being a skins fan is a chore again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NastyBoy Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 I'll agree with that.. You've already been quoted as saying Brunell had 3 more attempts then Ramsey.. If that's accurate then your argument falls flat.. Actually Gothimus, no it doesn't. What he's saying is that in more attempts, there were less turnovers. The yardage is inconsequential. Ramsey benefited from a long pass play which was purely the effort of a broken tackle and long run by a receiver which helped PR's numbers. That can't be held against Pat, but conversely it can't be held against Brunnel that similar events didn't take place. He did precisely what he was asked to do in that game, and he executed well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boobiemiles Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 It's actually about moving the offense. Gibbs obviously feels Brunell does a better job of it. 5 yards at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TODD Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 It's actually about moving the offense. Gibbs obviously feels Brunell does a better job of it. But he doesn't. Were you watching last year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandaceM23 Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 After waking up this morning to the local news announcing yet another QB controversy ... and hearing rumors of a trade of Ramsey ... I was a bit bitter. Hell, after hearing about the game on Sunday, I was bitter. Why was I bitter? I'll admit - a bit of it had to do with the fact that Ramsey got hurt and did not get a chance to go back into the game --- BUT the real problem that I had was the fact that Ramsey was BOO'ED in his home. What the heck is happening here? The first thing that came to mind was Philly and their fairweather fans!!! Look what's happening here?!?! We're in our house ... with our players ... and we turn around a BOO our QB. Talk about showing some support .... Yeah ... let's support Ramsey. Everyone complained and complained last year about how they wanted Brunell out and they wanted Ramsey in. We put Ramsey in and look what happens. I have a lot of respect for Ramsey .... I've met him before and he took the time to sign autographs and personally speak to every fan that was at the signing. And when I say that he spoke - I mean he spoke. He sat there for at least 10 minutes with my brother and I fascinated that my brother kept the Washington Post article announcing that the Skins picked up Ramsey. He's genuinely a good guy ... a great guy. All of this back and forth BS is really starting to discourage me!!! Me!!! ME!!! Think about how this is making Patrick feel. The poor man is probably more discouraged than any of us can even imagine. I respect Ramsey and here's why - Throughout it all - since the beginning of his career with the Redskins, Ramsey has been very thoughful and has not made negative comments in any form. When he was benched last season, although upset - he said that he supported the decision because it was all about the team. He's never said a negative thing about Spurrier, Gibbs, Snyder, his fellow teammates - NOTHING! And to sit here and think that he's shown respect to EVERYONE and not said anything NEGATIVE in the public really makes me have more respect for the man. In turn, I will continue to do nothing but show Ramsey respect. He's been a damn good sportsman and a gentleman in all forms. I just ask that everyone show the man the respect that he deserves. Stop the bashing ... the trash talking ... the pure disrespect. That the least that we can do for the man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzmuda Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 Sure they do, and the reports from those was that Ramsey was progressing and looked good. I think your point is debatable as I think reports were that he looked off and on. But even if your point is true that the media reported he looked good, you'd believe the assessment of the Post and Times over the assessment of the coaching staff? Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveStrongSkins Posted September 13, 2005 Author Share Posted September 13, 2005 I don't care, the man can do all the mental stuff he wants. But he can't throw the damn ball worth a ssssssssshhhhhhh. He can't. He's not going to make any big throws downfield. He's not going to take risks that would otherwise lead to big plays. And he sure as hell isn't going to be able to lead a last minute drive.QBs can be as smart as they come. But if they can't sling it, they can't play. And Mark Brunell is not even close. He doesn't bring us production. He won't exactly lose you a game, but he won't win you ANY. Any, any, any. We are absolutely right back where we were last year. And it's a freak shame. But yet somehow hes in the top ten all time in passer rating. Somehow he took an expansion team deep into the playoffs. These are all things Mr. Interception have done right? He was hurt bad last year and never used it as an excuse, so he has character as well. The few situations Ramsey has been in we have heard trade demands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Prime Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 I guess it really clear you lack the inside knowledge of the QB position. The change in playcalling after the defense tightens up, the need to only throw intermediate routes when Portis is getting 6-7 yards on first down. And more importantly, no turnovers. Inside knowledge? You've spent most of your time in this thread attacking other people while at the same time spouting off idiocies.. It's clear you have zero idea what your talking about.. You said it yourself all that matters is attempts.. You also said Brunell had 3 more.. So with 3 more attempts Brunell didn't get close to Ramsey/Moss production.. I stress Moss because I recognize the fact that most of Ramsey's yards came off that play. But you know Moss was on the field with Brunell too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Prime Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 Gibbs said Ramsey would start and he did. He never said he'd keep starting him if his play didn't warrant it. Gibbs did exactly what he said he would do. Cop out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NastyBoy Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 5 yards at a time. Last time I checked, moving the ball 5 yards at a time was considered better than the league average. The notion that Brunnel can't get the ball downfield is not factually correct. Again, a statement driven on pure emotion and speculation. Instead of bashing the guy, citing last year's performance as reason to expect disaster from him this year, watch him and let's see what happens. He's so clearly more ready and able to perform last year it's a joke to keep harping on that reasoning. If he stinks, we'll all say so, but give the guy a chance to succeed or fail. You Ramsey lovers / Brunnel haters are freakin incredible. You're acting less like Skins fans and more like lovesick teenagers (sorry to steal the reference, but it's so fitting)........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveStrongSkins Posted September 13, 2005 Author Share Posted September 13, 2005 But he doesn't. Were you watching last year? It cant be any worse then killing a drive with a red zone pick can it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Prime Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 Keep going bro, the posts just get dumber as you keep posting. Comparing a KR to the QB position shows your brilliance. One fumble on kick return in one game does not compare to numerous fumbles and interceptions. Many of which have come in the Red Zone in big games. Another example of you attacking another skin's fan for bringing a viable view into the discussion.. You've contributed nothing to this conversation other then insults... Ahhh ignore is so great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveStrongSkins Posted September 13, 2005 Author Share Posted September 13, 2005 Inside knowledge? You've spent most of your time in this thread attacking other people while at the same time spouting off idiocies.. It's clear you have zero idea what your talking about.. You said it yourself all that matters is attempts.. You also said Brunell had 3 more.. So with 3 more attempts Brunell didn't get close to Ramsey/Moss production..I stress Moss because I recognize the fact that most of Ramsey's yards came off that play. But you know Moss was on the field with Brunell too. I know exactly what I am talking about. I didnt post the idiotic stat about Ramsey having more yards in one quarter then Brunell in 3. You are the one who cant see that the playcalling changed to shorter passes to compliment the pounding running style we went to in the second half. Im not attacking anyone, people are acting like Brunell stood up and said, "ive had enough ive decided to start myself now." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alli Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 But he doesn't. Were you watching last year? Sorry, this isn´t "last year". Brunell, and I think everyone will agree here was a pretty good QB until arriving to washington last year. He stunk the place up for the better part of our season and was yanked (should have happened earlier). But all indications are that Mark has done ok in offseason and his legs are considerably stronger than last year. The only thing that I care about is that the redskins get a "W" each and every weekend and if Coach Gibbs thinks Brunell is the better choice than so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TODD Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 All the OTA's, Camp, preseason games mean nothing? The fact he was entrenched as the starter and came into this game making the same dumb mistakes that have defined him his whole career mean nothing either right? In comparison to actual game time? No. Listen LS, you can't judge Patrick on all of the first quarters he has played. The preseason, no, it doesn't really matter as far as I'm concerned. You gotta give a guy a chance to play a whole game. Furthermore, a whole freakin' string of games. After last year, it was more than obvious to EVERYONE that the offense was more effective under Ramsey than it was Brunell. We nearly took down the Eagles, we beat Minnesota, we destroyed the Giants (Ramsey was 19-22, 3 TDs), and was very effective in a win at San Francisco. Brunell can only speak of ugly, low scoring wins against bad teams in which Clinton Portis single-handedly carried the team and he did nothing (wins against TB, Detroit, and Chicago-- ALL HAD TOP 6 DRAFT PICKS!!!). Nothing will change now from last year to this year. We're the same team, with the same inept offense, with the same defense that will win us 5 games. Nothing's changing because Gibbs doesn't want to win, he wants to not lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Prime Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 I understand where you're coming from Gothimus, but that again is an emotional reaction.I think it's safe to say that Ramsey is a kid that's hard not to like. BUT, if you're being honest, and you watched with a keen eye what the pre-season was like........and in your own words, if noone knew a thing about either Ramsey or Brunnel, there's no way on God's green earth that 95% would say Ramsey was the better option. No freakin way at all. Preseason is NOT a true test of skill. Offenses are toned down and Brunell was going up against backups and willbecuts. Brunell's mechanics look better and he's got a little zip on the ball in preseason.. I didn't see it Sunday however. PR's been getting most of the time with the first team in practice.. Now that Mark will be getting that time, he could come out against Dallas and light it up. I don't think so though, his arm just looks really weak.. We have these speedy receivers to get the ball down field and we put in a guy, to no fault of his own, can't get them the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveStrongSkins Posted September 13, 2005 Author Share Posted September 13, 2005 Another example of you attacking another skin's fan for bringing a viable view into the discussion.. You've contributed nothing to this conversation other then insults... Ahhh ignore is so great. Why dont you post what he said smart guy? Funny how you leave that out. He made a comment going against the redskins saying "Boonell" would fumble and throw picks and would not win the game for us. The last time I checked the only thing that mattered was a win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NastyBoy Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 Another example of you attacking another skin's fan for bringing a viable view into the discussion.. You've contributed nothing to this conversation other then insults... Ahhh ignore is so great. Umm...... First of all LiveStrongSkins has brought up extremely viable and intelligent points. That you don't agree with them isn't exactly a reason to become so emotional, as you have been in many of your posts. I respect and even admire your enthusiasm Gothimus, but as I've said in response to you on 2 occasions, the emotion behind much of what you're saying is move evident than the facts you try backing them up with. As I said, we all have emotional attachment to the team. We all feel strongly about our positions and like it when there's affirmation. Human nature bud. But, I will say that in reading a couple of your posts, I think it was you who first threw out the "idiocracy" word. But heck I don't even care. Just don't iggie someone because your feelings are hurt. Lets all keep the debate civil and respect other's opinions. Who's to say who's right or wrong anyway. That would be like making a judgement about whether or not Gibbs is right or wrong. DOH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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