Regarding those who toss personal insults at Joe Gibbs (mega-merge)

[ironmic]

if u dont like Gibbs or think that all of a sudden he doesn't know personel and football....go watch figure skating....i am going to ride with gibbs because he has made good decisions in the past and he is a proven winner...those who hate on Gibbs i am wondering how many football teams have you coached?

[Diesel70ChipOnWhite]

Joe Gibbs doesn't owe Patrick Ramsey raccoon squat! Patricks assurances of being the next great Washington quarterback "quit" two years ago. Why doesn't anybody seem to realize that Gibbs really hasn't trusted Patrick for two years now and that this announcement wasn't really a big deal. It seems like we have so many "redskin" :logo: fans on this site that should be coaches in the NFL because they know how to manage a team. True Redskin fans don't sit here and cry about a kid who has virtually done nothing in this league to warrant him starting for us. Yeah Mark had a bad year last year, he is something like the #7 most accurate passer in LEAGUE HISTORY! Get a life you Gibbs bashers. We don't need Payton Manning to run this offense. We need a non mistake throwing quarterback who can hand off the damn ball to Portis and Betts. Old Happy Feet Ramsey would not have taken that botched shotgun snap and completed a 17 yard post like Mark did. If you hate Gibbs for what he did, go be a Cowboys fan. We don't need you! :dallasuck :dallasuck :dallasuck :dallasuck :dallasuck :dallasuck :dallasuck :dallasuck :dallasuck :dallasuck :dallasuck :dallasuck :dallasuck

[tizzod]

Preseason is NOT a true test of skill. Offenses are toned down

So are defenses, my good man.

[Whiskeypeet]

It's funny that a lot of you clowns who claim "Gibbs is washed up" base this on ..

1. Last year.

We stunk for a variety of reasons, but one of the overriding things that happens when a team is on a coaching carousel is whoever takes over has to play with a bunch of guys drafted by other people.

In our case, we have guys drafted for teams built mostly by Marty Schottenheimer and Steve Spurrier,, two philosophies that are as different as night and day.

So of course, it stands to reason Gibbs will be able to mold that motley bunch into a champ overnight,, or some would have me believe.

and 2.

This decision on Ramsey.

It also seems to me that the overwhelming number of people posting this kind of drivel are people who are barely old enough to remember Gibbs ever coaching a game prior to last year.

Anyway, the point is, YOU bozos claim Gibbs is done based on this very short window of what you've seen, yet you are the same clowns who are criticizing him for making a decision based on (what you believe) is a very limited opportunity for Ramsey.

So, tell me how much sense that makes? It's ok for you to have knee jerk reactions, but then you criticize him for doing (what you believe) is the same thing.

Nevermind Gibbs has been in attendance of Every Ramsey practice and play for nearly 2 full years now. That couldn't possibly factor into his thinking, now could it?

Nah, it's just easier to ***** and complain and pretend we know what we're talking about. Nothing makes me feel better than seeing some 22 yr old or 17 yr old dope pretending to know more about what is going on than Joe Gibbs.

Frankly, I think alot of you should turn in your playbooks and go hang out in Dallas.

No wonder our stadium is a haven for opposing fans.

Sell your tickets, you fair-weather ****s.

Get lost.

~Bang

This brought me to tears.

I want it in my signature.

[ZoEd]

Yall want to know why he got the hook so quick? Gibbs gave him a Whole offseason to improve. He changed the schemes, gave him his vote of confidence and did everything a coach should do. So what happens during game time?? A pick on the second play of the game. Did you not see Gibbs face after that? Then, like the traditional Ramsey we all know, he held the ball and took a blindside hit that almost was another turnover if Jansen wasnt there. This is why he got the hook. Brunell didnt turn the ball over. Joe Gibbs isnt going to change his ways because people think Ramsey should start. You cant be Gibbs QB and turn the ball over. I wish people would stop acting so crushed. If you are turnover prone, you dont play. No one on this site can say he isnt turnover prone. It's cut and dry, Joe Gibbs prefers the veteran QB who has been there and done that over the unproven QB who can kill a drive just as fast as he can start one.

So what you are saying is it's better to have a QB that can't score but won't turn the ball over opposed to a QB that can score but might turn it over when clothes lined? Your logic is pretty quirky. Hey you better go light some more candles in your Gibbs shrine their getting low.

[NastyBoy]

It's official. I just read the most ridiculous post on this entire thread.

[krsone]

Gibbs stuck with Brunell TOO long given that he was hurt and he's even admitted that he made a mistake there. The season was pretty much done once he was pulled.

He probably doesnt want to make the same mistake twice.

so are you saying that gibbs shouldve pulled brunell after 1 and half of qt played for the entire season last year? listen, lets use some common sense. given a chance to prove what you have and not getting a chance at all is two totally different thing. changing qbs after one and half qts played very first game of the season is not what you see daily in the NFl. it is very unusual. if u are saying gibbs knew for sure ramsey isnt the right qb after a qt and a half of playing time, you are kidding yourself of course.

[LiveStrongSkins]

So what you are saying is it's better to have a QB that can't score but won't turn the ball over opposed to a QB that can score but might turn it over when clothes lined? Your logic is pretty quirky. Hey you better go light some more candles in your Gibbs shrine their getting low.

Dude im not talking about the clothesline. Im talking about the fumble in which he dropped back...didnt know where to go with the ball so he flushes slightly to the right and puts the ball with one hand over his head for like a second and a half and gets hit and fumbles. Did you see Joe Gibbs on the sidelines? It looks like he wanted to kill Ramsey. I knew at that point he was only looking for a way to get Brunell in t here.

[krsone]

Dude........stop referencing last year. Last year is what sooooo many people are holding onto when talking about Brunnel.

How can you? He has in no way at all looked as bad as he did last year. We all know he was hurt much worse than was reported last year. Why make that comparison? It's an emotional thing, not a factual one to do that.

I said in an earlier post, Gibbs was WAY wrong for letting Brunnel stay out there as long as he did last year.......and what we should all be taking away from this year is that Gibbs is unwilling to let a better QB ride the pine while another throws away the season, regardless of who that QB is. Unfortunately for Ramsey, it worked against him this year.

He's not going to repeat history regardless of the players.

whos comparing brunell to last year as a player? i just mentioned how gibbs stuck with him for 9 games before being benched. read carfully. as for brunell looking better? are you on crack? the guy threw for 70 yards total.

[fpickering]

Thank you. The coach has to make decisions that best afford the team an opportunity to win. Brunell moves around the pocket better, sees the field better, and beats the blitz better than Ramsey ever has. Brunell gives us the best chance to beat Dallas' blitzing defense. That is incredibly clear. With our defense and running game, we simply need someone to manage the game at QB and avoid critical mistakes; and that is something Ramsey has never done and that Brunell excels at.

If there is anyone you should be upset at, it is Ramsey. We used a 1st round pick on a guy that is still making rookie mistakes in his 4th year.

I am sorry but everytime I read something like this I just have to provide the hard cold facts:

2004:

Brunell failed to pass for over 100 yards in 5 games last season. He averaged 5 yards per pass. He threw a SEVEN TDs IN NINE STARTS. We did not score more than 20 pts once!

We all know how 2004 turned out. With Brunell behind center we were 3-6.

2005:

Brunell failed to pass for over 100 yards (70 yards). He averaged 5 yards per pass. He threw 0 TDs. We failed to score more than 20 pts in the game.

The only reason we won this game is because we were playing one of the worst teams in the NFL. This kind of performance will NOT be good enough against the rest of our schedule except maybe SF.

IS THIS STARTING TO MAKE SENSE? This is clear as day, I cannot believe that some of you cannot or refuse to see it.

[In Flames]

Consistency?

You mean like Ramsey's consitent ability to turn the ball over?

A Hypocrite and a liar?

You do realize that a football coach's job is to try to win games, right? Not protect feelings? If a guy isn't getting it done, he's got to go. The bottom line is the W, not some ideal of perfect harmony between players and coaches and fans.

Out of touch, eh? Looks to me like we have a dominant defense and a very powerful running game. Let's see,,, how many teams have ridden that recipe to the super bowl? Hmm.. I wonder.

What we need at this point is a game manager. Ramsey seems to have a hard time managing a game, unless you've seen something I haven't. We need a guy who won't throw INTs.. another thing Ramsey has a hard time doing.

Because Ramsey was drafted by Spurrier, a guy who never DID have a touch of pro football.. Gibbs is somehow obligated to give him the long rope?

I ask a simple question. Why? Simply because he SAID SO? This is football. Perform or be replaced.

When this team wins with it's outstanding defense and powerful running game, I expect you to give us either

A/ an apology thread

or B/ your resignation as a fan of the team.

Enough of this crap. Ramsey is a professional football player. It's his fourth year. He's a big boy. Coaches don't "lie" to football players. Every player that there is realizes his job is contingent on performance. If your performance is not up to snuff, you gotta go, plain and simple. Every starter in the NFL with few exception is playing with the knowledge that he can be replaced.

It's the nature of the game.

Enough of this "Gibbs is a liar" junk. Seriously,, pretend you know a little bit about how this game works.

~Bang

:notworthy :notworthy :notworthy

very well said bang. as i stated in another post, Ramsey had ALOT of chances to become a smarter QB, spurrier or not, and HE didn't capitilize, therefore, JJG has decided to move in a different direction!!

[ZoEd]

It was his second pass attempt. Not only did Ramsey hold the ball too long he held it over his head with one hand.

Hey genious, first of all quit calling people names because you're only showing your a$$ and your age. Second of all have you ever played a game of football in your life? You make it sound like he took the snap and ran backwards one hand held high calling a taxi. If you took that hit you'd still be pulling turf out of your a$$ Nancy. Quit lashing out at people that don't agree with you. You have yet to make any valid points, just a bunch of sensless flaming!

[NastyBoy]

whos comparing brunell to last year as a player? i just mentioned how gibbs stuck with him for 9 games before being benched. read carfully. as for brunell looking better? are you on crack? the guy threw for 70 yards total.

First of all.......no, I'm not on crack.

Secondly, why are you making a personal attack? It seems fairly unneccessary and actually detracts from your credibility.

Finally, there is no way, unless you've got such a negative bias regarding Brunnel, that you can say he's the same QB he was last year.

Don't call me names or ask if I'm drugged because something I said, doesn't agree with your perception. I don't like it, I avoid doing it in all my posts, I encourage others to respect each person's opinions, and I ask that you do the same. If you wish to disagree with me, that's cool, I can respect that. Keep in on a respectful level though, ok?

[LiveStrongSkins]

Hey genious, first of all quit calling people names because you're only showing your a$$ and your age. Second of all have you ever played a game of football in your life? You make it sound like he took the snap and ran backwards one hand held high calling a taxi. If you took that hit you'd still be pulling turf out of your a$$ Nancy. Quit lashing out at people that don't agree with you. You have yet to make any valid points, just a bunch of sensless flaming!

For one, I have already talked to the people who I may have called something. But go through and read what was said to me as well. Next, Ive played and started at QB all 4 years in high school. Also 2 years of wide reciever in college and going back next season. Third, Im not talking about that fumble where he got clotheslined. I explained that. Im talking about the one where he held the ball way too long then actually exposed the ball above his head. I explained that Gibbs look disgusted after that play. I didnt say I would have been able to do better. I said Gibbs was disgusted. Please get the facts straight before calling me out.

[ZoEd]

Dude im not talking about the clothesline. Im talking about the fumble in which he dropped back...didnt know where to go with the ball so he flushes slightly to the right and puts the ball with one hand over his head for like a second and a half and gets hit and fumbles. Did you see Joe Gibbs on the sidelines? It looks like he wanted to kill Ramsey. I knew at that point he was only looking for a way to get Brunell in t here.

And everytime Brunell stunk it up last year he had a look of empathy on his face for the poor old man that he paid 50million dollars to lead our team. Did you see that? Week after week and I quote "Mark played tough out there today. I don't think his stats really show the effort he put forth. Next week we'll try to put Mark in a situation to win." All your PR haters and Bruisenell lovers act like Patrick turns the ball over everytime he touches it. Did Mark not fumble the ball constantly last year? Did he not throw interceptions? Did he not complete a pass over 20yds all season? Like I've said over and over, it's not about Ramsey it's about Brunell being horrible. Absolutely horrible!

[NastyBoy]

Hey genious, first of all quit calling people names because you're only showing your a$$ and your age. Second of all have you ever played a game of football in your life? You make it sound like he took the snap and ran backwards one hand held high calling a taxi. If you took that hit you'd still be pulling turf out of your a$$ Nancy. Quit lashing out at people that don't agree with you. You have yet to make any valid points, just a bunch of sensless flaming!

Oh well, there goes my whole "no namecalling" idea.

Talk about spiraling out of control.

YOUR age didn't seem to subdue your own willingness to call him names ZoEd.

Let's keep it civil, shall we?

[LiveStrongSkins]

And everytime Brunell stunk it up last year he had a look of empathy on his face for the poor old man that he paid 50million dollars to lead our team. Did you see that? Week after week and I quote "Mark played tough out there today. I don't think his stats really show the effort he put forth. Next week we'll try to put Mark in a situation to win." All your PR haters and Bruisenell lovers act like Patrick turns the ball over everytime he touches it. Did Mark not fumble the ball constantly last year? Did he not throw interceptions? Did he not complete a pass over 20yds all season? Like I've said over and over, it's not about Ramsey it's about Brunell being horrible. Absolutely horrible!

The whole point Ive been trying to make this whole thread is it's not going to help to keep bashing Brunell. I got defensive on t his thread because people are rooting for Brunell to fail. And yes it makes me mad... did I say things I shouldnt have? Yes I did. And yes I was wrong and I'm sorry. But it makes me sick that people are rooting for Brunell to fail. If he fails there goes OUR season. We need to rally around him and the other 52 on the active roster. Were getting wrapped on the QB position when we have so many other things to be happy about. I dont think Brunell and Gibbs should be taking the flaming that they are.

[ZoEd]

For one, I have already talked to the people who I may have called something. But go through and read what was said to me as well. Next, Ive played and started at QB all 4 years in high school. Also 2 years of wide reciever in college and going back next season. Third, Im not talking about that fumble where he got clotheslined. I explained that. Im talking about the one where he held the ball way too long then actually exposed the ball above his head. I explained that Gibbs look disgusted after that play. I didnt say I would have been able to do better. I said Gibbs was disgusted. Please get the facts straight before calling me out.

First of all what High School did you start all four seasons? I'd like to look it up. Second of all this whole thread is filled with you talking about one play during a tough game. How many times did Vick and McNabb, two premier QB's in this league, turn the ball over last night? Turnovers will happen! PR is not a great QB but he is hands down better than Brunell. What you are missing is the fact that most people would have an easier time excepting Campbell as the starter over Brunell because we all saw what he was capable of last season and we're in no hurry to see it happen all over again.

[ZoEd]

Oh well, there goes my whole "no namecalling" idea.

Talk about spiraling out of control.

YOUR age didn't seem to subdue your own willingness to call him names ZoEd.

Let's keep it civil, shall we?

Yes but Nancy is a heck of a lot better than stupid and moron. You are right though, I'm sorry for succumbing to the pressure.

[ZoEd]

The whole point Ive been trying to make this whole thread is it's not going to help to keep bashing Brunell. I got defensive on t his thread because people are rooting for Brunell to fail. And yes it makes me mad... did I say things I shouldnt have? Yes I did. And yes I was wrong and I'm sorry. But it makes me sick that people are rooting for Brunell to fail. If he fails there goes OUR season. We need to rally around him and the other 52 on the active roster. Were getting wrapped on the QB position when we have so many other things to be happy about. I dont think Brunell and Gibbs should be taking the flaming that they are.

Mark has all ready failed. At least with PR we had a glimmer of hope because we didn't endure week after week of failure from him last season. All I'm saying is give him the chance to show what he can do. A quarter doesn't allow that opportunity. Mark had 9 games to prove what he could do and had a 3-6 record to show for it.

[NastyBoy]

First of all what High School did you start all four seasons? I'd like to look it up. Second of all this whole thread is filled with you talking about one play during a tough game. How many times did Vick and McNabb, two premier QB's in this league, turn the ball over last night? Turnovers will happen! PR is not a great QB but he is hands down better than Brunell. What you are missing is the fact that most people would have an easier time excepting Campbell as the starter over Brunell because we all saw what he was capable of last season and we're in no hurry to see it happen all over again.

Zo, first of all let me just say I respect your position, whether or not I agree with it. But here's the deal, you can not in good conscious ask why Ramsey isn't being given the same lattitude as Vick and McNabb. (I'll throw Favre and Culpepper in there as well as examples). These guys are studs in one way or another. For all the bad things Vick may do, he also has the ability to erase them in the blink of an eye. He's a game changer, a difference maker, and most importantly, he's PROVEN it. Ditto for all the others. They've earned the right to screw up and be forgiven their sins.

We all waited and waited and waited for Patrick to NOT look like a rookie. But darn it he still does! I don't WANT him to! I want him to be awesome so that out team will be awesome, and the record would be awesome. Wouldn't that be AWESOME??? He's just not. And, as much as I truly like Patrick Ramsey the man, I believe it's time to stop the Patrick Ramsey as QB thing. It hurts to watch, honestly.

That's all I'm sayin my fellow Skins lovin brotha!

[Redskins022]

Personally I don't care who our Quarter Back is. I would have loved to see Patrick Ramsey succeed and I really like him as a player but the bottom line is I am just sick of having losing seasons. I would support whoever Gibbs puts in as long as we win. I really trust in Gibbs and I don't really remember the glory days since I am just 22. I hope Mark Brunell or Jason Campbell can get the job done and I think one of them will. :point2sky

[LiveStrongSkins]

First of all what High School did you start all four seasons? I'd like to look it up. Second of all this whole thread is filled with you talking about one play during a tough game. How many times did Vick and McNabb, two premier QB's in this league, turn the ball over last night? Turnovers will happen! PR is not a great QB but he is hands down better than Brunell. What you are missing is the fact that most people would have an easier time excepting Campbell as the starter over Brunell because we all saw what he was capable of last season and we're in no hurry to see it happen all over again.

Go ahead look it up. I ended up starting two of those seasons at WR but had to get switched to QB both times because of injuries to older QB's in my freshman and sophmore year. The name is Marshall Wharam and I played at Edison High School in Alexandria. I then played at Bridgewater College before making the switch to Frostburg state. There's my whole last 6 years pretty much summed up, feel free to look up whatever it is you need to. Zoed, I wasnt harping on one play. I was emphasizing the fact that that was the play that Gibbs looked disgusted, and that told the tale.

[NastyBoy]

Mark has all ready failed. At least with PR we had a glimmer of hope because we didn't endure week after week of failure from him last season. All I'm saying is give him the chance to show what he can do. A quarter doesn't allow that opportunity. Mark had 9 games to prove what he could do and had a 3-6 record to show for it.

This is the exact type of argument that holds no water though Zo. Brunnel pissed me off last year too. Heck, I'm sure I wished him dead a few dozen times. BUT, he was hurt, and hurt badly. He's looking 100% different and better this year, so maybe last year has tainted you so deeply that you're just not willing to give the guy a shot. That's unfair man. He's so clearly in better shape, and better suited to Gibbs' offense. Try looking objectively at the entire situation, putting the emotional attachment side of Ramsey out of the equation.

Ramsey has had ample opportunity to show improvement. He's just not doing it. I believe if he'd proven to Gibbs that he could manage a game and not continue to be a turnover factory, Gibbs would have stuck it out longer. Game after game, ( and I'm assuming practice session after practice session ), Ramsey has proven he'll be unreliable.

Who's to say Brunnel is any better. If both are likely to turn the ball over, the difference for me is Brunnel's experience and pocket presence. Those alone increase the chances of success.

[camyj15]

The core redskins go both ways. Troy Brown took less to play with the Pats why couldn't they. Pierce is not better then Washington or will he ever be so his contract shouldn't be more or the same so hes gone. Williams made his *** and that is how he treats us.

Smoot is the #2 CB he shouldn't be payed more then the guy who locking down the teams best receivers and he wasn't that good anyway Rogers>Smoot

Ramsey, puts us in bad spots all the time. He can't read defenses he's a bust, he was drafted way to high he was the last pick in the 1st round and he would have been a mid to late 2nd if we did reach for him. Gibbs didn't lie Pat started, he didn't bench all pre-season when was stinking the joint up, and he did start the season, Brunell is just better plain and simple. If wants to leave then fine by me but lets see what his real value in this league is conditional 7th rounder at best. Dude is a bum and a wasted Spurrier pick.

I agree with this assessement except I wouldn't label Ramsey a bust just yet. He is teetering dangerously close, but he's not there yet. This is the thin line walked between potentially on target and actually hitting your mark. Brunell-Ramsey, Ramsey-Brunell. They both come with many cons. While I would have liked to see Ramsey get more of a chance, I see nothing, other than this, that would make me think twice about Gibbs benching him. I was not caught up with Smoot. He seemed like a likable guy, kind of funny, but I felt the team's offer was more than fair to him. Now Pierce, on the other hand, I loved his play for us. It's great he got his money from the Giants, I'm not mad at him, but that was a lot of cash. Brunell was bad last year, but after his preseason, I'll wait to see how he pans out this year.