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is Trumpism helping or harming the position of Christianity in America?

mcsluggo

By mcsluggo
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mcsluggo

mcsluggo

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Posted

According to pollsters,  white evangelical Christians are not just standing behind their (collective) support for President Trump ... their support for Trump has RISEN during his presidency,

 

and now (April 2018) 75% of white evangelical christians view Trump favorably 

while only 22% view him unfavorably. 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/poll-white-evangelical-support-for-trump-at-record-high/ar-AAw3O2w?OCID=ansmsnnews11

 

 

Is Trump (who is fairly easy to define objectively as the least Christian president in modern history) good for Christianity in America?? 

Evangelical Christian leadership clearly believes this to be true, and so does their flock.  What say you? 

 

 

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thebluefood

thebluefood

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Posted

I'm Episcopalian so on one hand, I couldn't be more put off by the current administration and its impact on the culture at large - especially my faith. 

 

On the other hand, I think it's caused the church to take firmer stances on issues like mass incarceration and income inequality so I'm not going to say no to that. I just hope they don't take their foot off the pedal when the eventual blue wave crests. 

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mcsluggo

mcsluggo

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Richard Gerson (a solid Evangelical who was a primary speechwriter for George W Bush) clearly thinks Trump is bad for Evangelicals, and bad for Christianity.

 

his view outlined in a short Washington Post editorial:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trump-is-evangelicals-dream-president-heres-why/2017/05/15/77b1609a-3996-11e7-a058-ddbb23c75d82_story.html?utm_term=.ab54eb0f42c0

 

and a much longer (and better) piece for The Atlantic

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/04/the-last-temptation/554066/

 

 

Quote

Trump consistently depicts evangelicals as they depict themselves: a mistreated minority, in need of a defender who plays by worldly rules. Christianity is “under siege,” Trump told a Liberty University audience. “Relish the opportunity to be an outsider,” he added at a later date: “Embrace the label.” Protecting Christianity, Trump essentially argues, is a job for a bully.

 

^^ true??  ^^

 

Quote

A prominent company of evangelical leaders—including Dobson, Falwell, Graham, Jeffress, Metaxas, Perkins, and Ralph Reed—has embraced this self-conception. Their justification is often bluntly utilitarian: All of Trump’s flaws are worth his conservative judicial appointments and more-favorable treatment of Christians by the government. But they have gone much further than grudging, prudential calculation. They have basked in access to power and provided character references in the midst of scandal. Graham castigated the critics of Trump’s response to the violence during a white-supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia (“Shame on the politicians who are trying to push blame on @POTUS”). Dobson has pronounced Trump a “baby Christian”—a political use of grace that borders on blasphemy. “Complaining about the temperament of the @POTUS or saying his behavior is not presidential is no longer relevant,” Falwell tweeted. “[Donald Trump] has single-handedly changed the definition of what behavior is ‘presidential’ from phony, failed & rehearsed to authentic, successful & down to earth.”

 

^^ absolutely true ^^

 

Quote

For some of Trump’s political allies, racist language and arguments are part of his appeal. For evangelical leaders, they should be sources of anguish. Given America’s history of slavery and segregation, racial prejudice is a special category of moral wrong. Fighting racism galvanized the religious conscience of 19th-century evangelicals and 20th-century African American civil-rights activists. Perpetuating racism indicted many white Christians in the South and elsewhere as hypocrites. Americans who are wrong on this issue do not understand the nature of their country. Christians who are wrong on this issue do not understand the most-basic requirements of their faith.

 

Here is the uncomfortable reality: I do not believe that most evangelicals are racist. But every strong Trump supporter has decided that racism is not a moral disqualification in the president of the United States. And that is something more than a political compromise. It is a revelation of moral priorities.

 

^^ this ...appears to be true, and sad ^^

 

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mcsluggo

mcsluggo

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but here is an opposing view (affirming the support of Trump by evangelicals).

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/evangelicals-stand-trump-understand-article-1.3777234

 

Quote

Perkins spelled it out. Evangelical Christians, he says, “were tired of being kicked around by Barack Obama and his leftists. And I think they are finally glad that there’s somebody on the playground that is willing to punch the bully.”

 

 

Quote

And it was decades of concerted cultural elitism that marginalized Christians as not cool enough to cater to. Movies like “The Passion of the Christ” and “The Chronicles of Narnia” were blockbuster hits in spite of dismissive Hollywood film critics who refused to believe there were enough Christians to go see them. Celebrities called them fanatics; comedians made fun of them.

Many evangelicals I talk to say they grew tired of turning the other cheek. In Trump, they finally found someone who was willing to voice the anger and resentment they had been holding in.

 

 

 

 

Personally...I think ^^this^^ is utter and complete bull****, but would be happy to entertain an attempt to defend it.

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youngestson

youngestson

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Born and raised an Episcopalian.

 

It may be a fading differentiation, but I for one don't equate "Christian" with Evangelical. 

 

The ends and goals of exactly what far too many of their leaders do with their authority, their power, and even their wealth have always struck me as profoundly egotistical rather than spiritual. I've made the comparison before, I think many, if not most, Evangelicals are attracted to their religion for tribal reasons as much or more than the fulfillment of spiritual needs. 

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Zguy28

Zguy28

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Posted
17 minutes ago, mcsluggo said:

but here is an opposing view (affirming the support of Trump by evangelicals).

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/evangelicals-stand-trump-understand-article-1.3777234

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Personally...I think ^^this^^ is utter and complete bull****, but would be happy to entertain an attempt to defend it.

Not defending the merit of the position, only the reality of the feeling and perception among many.

 

Quote

Many evangelicals I talk to say they grew tired of turning the other cheek.

And this is a big part of the problem.

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Kilmer17

Kilmer17

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23 minutes ago, mcsluggo said:

but here is an opposing view (affirming the support of Trump by evangelicals).

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/evangelicals-stand-trump-understand-article-1.3777234

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Personally...I think ^^this^^ is utter and complete bull****, but would be happy to entertain an attempt to defend it.

Why is it BS?  I absolutely believe that the majority of Trumps support comes from people who hate the left (or more appropriately the caricature of the left), more so than those that like him (and the GOP).

 

 

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Zguy28

Zguy28

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1 minute ago, Kilmer17 said:

Why is it BS?  I absolutely believe that the majority of Trumps support comes from people who hate the left (or more appropriately the caricature of the left), more so than those that like him (and the GOP).

 

 

I think he means that their perception is not merited in reality.

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mcsluggo

mcsluggo

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11 minutes ago, Zguy28 said:

Not defending the merit of the position, only the reality of the feeling and perception among many.

 

And this is a big part of the problem.

 

4 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

Why is it BS?  I absolutely believe that the majority of Trumps support comes from people who hate the left (or more appropriately the caricature of the left), more so than those that like him (and the GOP).

 

 

 

Yeah... i wasn;t clear at all.   i TOTALLY believe that this persecution complex is why evangelicals flock to trump... i just even more fundamentally believe that the perceived persecution is crap.

 

and yes, i say this as a Christian ....     (but a Catholic, not an Evangelical)  

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Zguy28

Zguy28

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1 minute ago, mcsluggo said:

 

 

Yeah... i wasn;t clear at all.   i TOTALLY believe that this persecution complex is why evangelicals flock to trump... i just even more fundamentally believe that the perceived persecution is crap.

 

and yes, i say this as a Christian ....     (but a Catholic, not an Evangelical)  

Its almost self-fulfilling in a way. But there is no denying that America is moving into a post-Christian era. And I don't necessarily have a problem with that. Because that is when the church truly shines and grows, in times when it IS the outsider, especially during persecution.

It a fear of change or loss of power and position that motivates this. Just like it would any other people group. We're supposed to be different, or so the NT says.

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PleaseBlitz

PleaseBlitz

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Definitely harming.  When your raison d'être is your perceived morality and claimed values, and you throw those morals and values away for some temporary political power, people inside and outside of your organization are going to question what purpose you serve.   

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bearrock

bearrock

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People using Christianity for political purposes have been harming the believers for some time now.  Trump is just the latest in a long line of that.  To me there's a distinction between those who actually believe and those who just practice the religion.  I'm sure the religious practitioners are enjoying their time in power.  True Christians couldn't care less.

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mcsluggo

mcsluggo

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23 minutes ago, Zguy28 said:

Its almost self-fulfilling in a way. But there is no denying that America is moving into a post-Christian era. And I don't necessarily have a problem with that. Because that is when the church truly shines and grows, in times when it IS the outsider, especially during persecution.

It a fear of change or loss of power and position that motivates this. Just like it would any other people group. We're supposed to be different, or so the NT says.

 

But the question boils back to the very premise of the thread....

 

are (were) Christians being persecuted in America?  or is it actually their leadership that is ****ting all over the legacy of Christ, diluting the message, disillusioning the flock, and killing that which they claim to want to protect?      

 

Is the fact that they are willing to employ a thuggish morally-bankrupt, imbecile bully as a champion the disease?  a sign of the disease?  or really nothing to see?

 

and yes---- i know it doesn't have to be an either/or, with a clear black&white distinction ..... Christians could be persecuted AND Trump could suck... but it is my belief that the biggest villains here are the christian leadership, that are willing to despoil that very thing that claim to champion (Christ's legacy) for short run personal and political gain.   Trump is an opportunistic whore, willing to do whatever to whomever, we ALL should recognize that .... but the Fundamentalist Christian leadership in this country just look like the cartoonish pharisees from Andrew Lloyd Webber....

 

tumblr_lnzq5yc2TE1qmpg90o1_400.gif 

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Zguy28

Zguy28

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Posted
5 minutes ago, mcsluggo said:

 

But the question boils back to the very premise of the thread....

 

are (were) Christians being persecuted in America?  or is it actually their leadership that is ****ting all over the legacy of Christ, diluting the message, disillusioning the flock, and killing that which they claim to want to protect?      

 

Is the fact that they are willing to employ a thuggish morally-bankrupt, imbecile bully as a champion the disease?  a sign of the disease?  or really nothing to see?

 

and yes---- i know it doesn't have to be an either/or, with a clear black&white distinction ..... Christians could be persecuted AND Trump could suck... but it is my belief that the biggest villains here are the christian leadership, that are willing to despoil that very thing that claim to champion (Christ's legacy) for short run personal and political gain.   Trump is an opportunistic whore, willing to do whatever to whomever, we ALL should recognize that .... but the Fundamentalist Christian leadership in this country just look like the cartoonish pharisees from Andrew Lloyd Webber....

 

I think its a sign that the church has embraced pragmatism and become like the rest of the world, despite their claim to be different.

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Sacks 'n' Stuff

Sacks 'n' Stuff

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Ain't nothing pragmatic about evangelicals embracing Trump. It's just pure dumbassery. "Hey Christians, turn your back on everything that your lord and savior taught you and I'll pretend like there was a war on Christmas that I won and keep telling those icky gays that there's something wrong with them. I know how important that is to you."

 

Trump is about as good for Christianity as he is for Republicanism... He actually represents the destruction of both and the people who think he's good are 1) Those who stand to benefit financially or 2) tribalistic morons who are easily misled and are being manipulated by group one.

Edited by Sacks 'n' Stuff
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mcsluggo

mcsluggo

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i don't think there is ANYONE In GOP or Chritian leadership that thinks he is good for either of those groups.... 

 

some may think he is good for them personally, or some may be too weak to stand up and resist ... but nobody in leadership thinks he is a force for good 

33 minutes ago, Zguy28 said:

I think its a sign that the church has embraced pragmatism and become like the rest of the world, despite their claim to be different.

 

calling it pragmatism is a cop-out, in this case.

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mcsluggo

mcsluggo

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5 minutes ago, FanboyOf91 said:

Not so much rotting the church from within as much as revealing the existing rot.

 

there is no "the church" when it comes to "evangelicals".      there is no "Rome", or other governing body.   It is both a strength (in terms of nimble ability to serve the needs of of diverse flock) and liability (these dudes can do whatever the **** they want, and call it christianity) 

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The Evil Genius

The Evil Genius

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Not getting your own way all the time isn't persecution.

 

Somehow, a vocal portion of American Christianity has become convinced it is.

 

It's how we end up with stupid terms like the war on Xmas (even the X being used is discussed ad nauseum) and the fear of sharia laws in the heartland (!!!).

Edited by The Evil Genius
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