88Comrade2000 Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Billy Graham, America's pastor, has died Rest in Peace, Reverend Graham. Too bad your son, isn't like you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 25 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said: Billy Graham, America's pastor, has died Rest in Peace, Reverend Graham. Too bad your son, isn't like you. It's because he wasn't it in for the money. And even if I disagreed with his views on women, Jews (at least what he said to Nixon), and his view on Evangelical Christianity, I respect the heck out of that guy. Can you imagine if Trump had to follow the Billy Graham rule? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Rest in peace Billy. You had feet of clay like the rest of us, but you allowed yourself to grow in maturity and spiritually so those things you believed once were given room to grow or cut off to die. I’m just sad that you had to live to see what your son has done to your legacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Pretty decent run. RIP. I wonder how much of his tax-free $25 million dollar fortune he dispersed to the needy before he passed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 RIP Rev Graham. What's up with his son? Don't know anything about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Spaceman Spiff said: What's up with his son? Don't know anything about him. Franklin Graham? Basically everything wrong with contemporary American Evangelical Protestantism. Has rejected his father’s broad umbrella appeal in favor of hitching his theological waggon to the GOP and Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky21 Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 One of the very few highly visible evangelists that didn't seem in it for the money and didn't seem to stray from Christ's teachings. RIP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebluefood Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 I was doing some research between phone calls this morning to double check something I remember and ran across this article from Religious News Services. https://religionnews.com/2014/12/11/1940s-america-wasnt-religious-think-rise-fall-american-religion/ Quote It’s common for people to believe that religion was always more vibrant in the past. Earlier generations were always more religious than we are, right? Not always. Religiosity can rise and fall just like other things do over time. In fact, America of the 1940s was about as as religious as America today. Coming out of World War II, America was not very religious. The war had put a halt on many of the things that increase religiosity, particularly marriage and procreation. Churches, just like other organizations, were slowed by drain on resources and volunteers during the war. The U.S. has gone through some pretty dramatic religious "boom/bust" cycles and years between the World Wars (and beyond) were a big "bust" era for American Churches. It was followed by maybe the greatest recorded boom period in the 1950s and 1960s. A lot of that has to do with the national desire to separate ourselves from the "Atheistic Soviets" but I also think it's a testimony to the influence and impact of Billy Graham. The most popular denomination in the United States (apart from the Roman Catholic church) is the Southern Baptist Convention - to which Graham belonged. That wasn't the case before he started his crusades and it bucks international trends (Catholics, Anglicans, and Orthodox Churches are still the "big three"). There's lot of facts at play there, I'm sure but I'm sure Graham is among them. There had been popular evangelists and before him in the mass broadcasting era but Graham might be the most influential and universally respected. Graham set the foundation for today's Evangelical Christian movement, which still dominates the religious landscape in the U.S., though he didn't always approve of the house it built (he didn't care too much for the "Moral Majority" set). If there are individuals more influential in shaping America's religious views and demographics, there aren't many more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebluefood Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Also, guess who was on, apparently, good terms (or at least not outright negative terms) with the Grahams. You'll never guess. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43144752 Quote In 1992, Graham became the first foreign religious leader to visit North Korea, where he met its ruler, Kim Il-sung. He returned two years later. The family has close ties to the country - Graham's late wife Ruth, whose parents were missionaries, grew up in Pyongyang in the 1930s. She said that her time there constituted "some of the most memorable years of my life". The visit, which saw Graham speak about his faith before a university audience, took place with the approval of President George HW Bush. "I want to go as their friend," Graham said beforehand. "I want to see some of the positive things there, come out and report on them, because there has been so much negativism about North Korea." Now, I don't think he actually thought Kim Il-Sung was a God as DPRK state media claimed in 2016 but still - I had no idea this happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 3 hours ago, thebluefood said: Also, guess who was on, apparently, good terms (or at least not outright negative terms) with the Grahams. You'll never guess. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43144752 Now, I don't think he actually thought Kim Il-Sung was a God as DPRK state media claimed in 2016 but still - I had no idea this happened. Ruth Graham's stay in Pyongyang during the 30's would have been during Japanese Imperial Rule, so it would've been before Kim came to power in what is North Korea today. Interesting stuff though. I wonder how the changed NK looked to Ruth Graham? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebluefood Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 I gotta say, though - between my Twitter and Facebook feeds I have seen, like...next to nothing about Billy Graham's passing. Mind you, I primarily follow a younger and Left-leaning and secular set but I think I saw more about Hugh Hefner dying than Billy Graham and they had the same general window of "peak relevance." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 35 minutes ago, thebluefood said: I gotta say, though - between my Twitter and Facebook feeds I have seen, like...next to nothing about Billy Graham's passing. Mind you, I primarily follow a younger and Left-leaning and secular set but I think I saw more about Hugh Hefner dying than Billy Graham and they had the same general window of "peak relevance." I think that there is an element of "if you can't say anything good, just don't say anything" going on. I personally think that Graham did a horrible disservice to this country, because the rise of charismatic mass-market evangelical Christian conservative political tribalism can be attributed in large part directly to him. I don't think he intended anything evil of course, and I have nothing against him personally, but I have nothing to say about him that isn't colored by my underlying feelings about his legacy. So I kept quiet (until now). Plus he produced Franklin and got him his current platform, and that's awfully hard to forgive. *goes back to lurking* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebluefood Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Naw, that's pretty much how I feel, too, @Predicto. Personally, I have very mixed feelings about Billy Graham and his legacy so I've been focusing more on his impact and influence which is unmistakably massive. But I do remember seeing "hot takes" on the more, shall we say, problematic aspects of Hefner's legacy right after he died. But maybe Graham's sun really has set. In some ways (including church attendance) we're pretty much right where we were when Graham got started in the 1940s, for better or for worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebluefood Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Speaking of that - here's a quote from one of my favorite theologians, Karl Barth about Rev. Graham Quote "I was quite horrified. He acted like a madman and what he presented was certainly not the gospel.’ ‘It was the gospel at gun-point . . . He preached the law, not a message to make one happy. He wanted to terrify people. Threats – they always make an impression. People would much rather be terrified than pleased. The more one heats up hell for them, the more they come running.’ But even this success did not justify such preaching. It was illegitimate to make the gospel law or ‘to “push” it like an article for sale . . . We must leave the good God freedom to do his own work." Neo-Orthodox/Reformed and Evangelicals don't always see eye to eye on things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c slag Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 9 hours ago, AsburySkinsFan said: Franklin Graham? Basically everything wrong with contemporary American Evangelical Protestantism. Has rejected his father’s broad umbrella appeal in favor of hitching his theological waggon to the GOP and Trump. What ever happened to the separation of church and state? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 3 minutes ago, c slag said: What ever happened to the separation of church and state? That’s sarcasm right? Evangelicals only want that separation of the state from the church, and the separation of the state from all the other religions. It’s hilarious how loudly they protest against Islamic Shariah Law and yet routinely use their version of religion as a litmus test for their policies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c slag Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 58 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said: That’s sarcasm right? Evangelicals only want that separation of the state from the church, and the separation of the state from all the other religions. It’s hilarious how loudly they protest against Islamic Shariah Law and yet routinely use their version of religion as a litmus test for their policies. It is in the Constitution correct ? Make no laws establishing any religion or prevent the practice of any religion or the practice of no religion at all I agree with you Evangelical is more like "do what I say not what I do" That goes against any religions teaching Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinwhiteduke Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 17 hours ago, Rocky21 said: One of the very few highly visible evangelists that didn't seem in it for the money and didn't seem to stray from Christ's teachings. RIP. lol he was as big a cult leader as the rest. The fact you knew him nationally means he was in for the money. all known so called Christians are fakes. Religion is fake etc. He was a lying fool like the rest religion was invented by govt to control people-period Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 He was a constant in our home growing up, my dad's message came from his inspiration, right down to playing Just As I Am at every single alter call. RIP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 8 hours ago, c slag said: It is in the Constitution correct ? Make no laws establishing any religion or prevent the practice of any religion or the practice of no religion at all I agree with you Evangelical is more like "do what I say not what I do" That goes against any religions teaching You think they care about what’s in the Constitution when it works against them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c slag Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 4 hours ago, AsburySkinsFan said: You think they care about what’s in the Constitution when it works against them? Sadly no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Billy Graham net worth - $25 million Kenneth Copeland net worth- $760 million Pat Robertson net worth- $100 million Benny Hinn net worth - $42 million Joel Osteen net worth - $40 million Creflo Dollar, Jr. net worth -$27 million Rick Warren net worth- $25 million Joyce Myer net worth - $8 million Jesus net worth - 3 dollars and 60 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Never a bad time to post this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 24 minutes ago, Dan T. said: Billy Graham net worth - $25 million Kenneth Copeland net worth- $760 million Pat Robertson net worth- $100 million Benny Hinn net worth - $42 million Joel Osteen net worth - $40 million Creflo Dollar, Jr. net worth -$27 million Rick Warren net worth- $25 million Joyce Myer net worth - $8 million Jesus net worth - 3 dollars and 60 cents. Yeah, but you aren't taking into account inflation. $3.60 back then was like $360 million today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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