Renegade7 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 This kinda hit me while I was in the NBA thread how schemes and player athleticism has changed over the years. I didn't get to see the Hogs play, but what caught my eye was when I saw interior line playing size: '91 Redskins LT - Jim Lachey - 6-6, 294lb LG - Raleigh McKenzie - 6-2, 290lb C - Jeff Bostic - 6-2, 268lb RG - Mark Schlereth - 6-3, 282lb RT - Joe Jacoby - 6-7, 305lb By comparison, here are the projected starters for our 2017 line: LT - Trent Williams - 6-5, 320lb LG - Shawn Lauvao - 6-3, 308 C - Spencer Long - 6-5, 318 RG - Brandon Scherff - 6-5, 319 RT - Morgan Moses - 6-6, 335 Now, I'm not saying the 2017 is better then the 1991 line, or that they are better because they are bigger. Just curious what ya'lls thoughts were (especially those that watched them play) about how any year starting line of the Hogs would fair in today's NFL. Dominant Scheme? Too Small? Superior pulling motion of the line? Too slow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILikeBilly Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 2 things about the hogs. They were very big compared to other olines. So, if today's NFL has 310 lbs linemen, then the hogs would be 320 lbs linemen. Second, the hogs worked together like the gears of a watch. Everyone in the proper place at the proper time. That is the sign of a great line and that is what works in the 80's, 90's or now. So, transplanting those dudes into today's NFL would be tough on them. The game has changed. Give them the $, a season to prep and a supporting cast like Kirk, our RBs and WRs and they would do fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 We'd wish we still had Chester and Rabach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Acre Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Size does matter to some extent, although strength, technique, and line cohesion are probably more important. How much bigger are NFL DLs these days than in the Hogs' day. BTW, Bostic would probably get manhandled at 268#. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 By '91, the Hogs were not the heaviest line in the league. Other teams had caught up in the ten years since the Hogs took the field. They weren't better because they were bigger they were better because they were a great unit with a lot of depth. They had talent, size, cohesion, and skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 No athlete who retired 25 years ago could play in any professional league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brdawk20 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said: No athlete who retired 25 years ago could play in any professional league. I think Jerry Rice would be just fine today. Wilt Chamberlain is still considered the strongest player (upper body) and greatest athletic specimen to ever play in the NBA. I'm pretty sure Wayne Gretzky would still be a star today. Babe Ruth would still kick ass today. Baseball's greatest skill is eye/hand coordination. Human evolution hasn't turned us into super humans since 1927. One could make a case for hundreds of athletes who could play today. They simply need to get used to rule changes and would benefit from better training methods and medicine. Of course, as a practical matter, any athlete who retired 25 years ago is probably too old to play in any professional league... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said: No athlete who retired 25 years ago could play in any professional league. I think the generational talents could, because they'd have the diet/strength and conditioning/supplements of today on their side just like everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 1 hour ago, ConnSKINS26 said: I think the generational talents could, because they'd have the diet/strength and conditioning/supplements of today on their side just like everyone else. If they grew up in this era, sure, but if they were the same as they were then, even with all the additives, I doubt it. Kids coming up now are on these things their entire lives, plus the sport science to go along with it is wildly different. Performance has advanced so incredibly fast in the last 20 years, its incredible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible_Red40 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 As big as those running holes were and the amount of time the QB had back then, this line wouldn't stand a chance in today's NFL. Bostic and Schlereth would get eaten alive by the like of Watt, Suh, Donald, McCoy etc. Hell they'd make Haynesworth look useful, ok well, I'm over exaggerating here! Athleticism alone, these guy couldn't keep up with the O-Lines of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 They wouldn't be able to run power schemes, but you could probably get by with some chicanery and scheming. It's Bostic's size you'd probably have to be concerned with. I think a 260-something on center would get manhandled, I don't care who he is. That 2012 line we had was not significantly bigger though except for Trent. Chester, Licht, Polumbus, and Montgomery were about 300 even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted June 21, 2017 Author Share Posted June 21, 2017 18 hours ago, Koolblue13 said: No athlete who retired 25 years ago could play in any professional league. That's a pretty wide net, KB. What about kickers? : ) I'd like to believe Jacoby and Lachey in their prime could play today, just not sure they'd be as dominant as they were. No way I'd walk out a 260 Center in today's NFL. If I saw that, I'm putting a 0-technique NT in front of him then doing a dual ILB blitz until they could stop it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaper Skins Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 I think Barry Sanders would be just as amazing if he played in today's league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILikeBilly Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 15 hours ago, Koolblue13 said: If they grew up in this era, sure, but if they were the same as they were then, even with all the additives, I doubt it. Kids coming up now are on these things their entire lives, plus the sport science to go along with it is wildly different. Performance has advanced so incredibly fast in the last 20 years, its incredible. Darrell Green at the age of 25 could step into the year 2017 and start instantly and be one of the best players on the field. Not all positions are based on size/weight. Personally, I also think guys like Ken Harvey, LT, Dexter Manley could step right in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 1 hour ago, ILikeBilly said: Darrell Green at the age of 25 could step into the year 2017 and start instantly and be one of the best players on the field. Not all positions are based on size/weight. Personally, I also think guys like Ken Harvey, LT, Dexter Manley could step right in. Maybe. Be pretty interesting to see a 5'9" corner going against WRs that are 4"+ and 25 lbs heavier, while also being probably as fast as he was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Tater Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 20 hours ago, Koolblue13 said: No athlete who retired 25 years ago could play in any professional league. Yeah...if their now in their 50s. When you think about the top players in the past you got to reduce their age. Are you thinking time machine jumps or just making them 25 or so years younger? Since the actual speed of the players has changed very little since the 80s, I suspect there are a whole host of WRs and maybe a few TEs who could play today. If we restrict ourselves to post-1978 (last major rules change in the NFL) with the exception of size in the positions were big men reign, most of them probably could play today. Though the rise of the squatty body (guys who weigh much more than they should at their height and don't lose athleticism in the bargain) may reduce the effectiveness of some of the old guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Just now, Darth Tater said: Yeah...if their now in their 50s. When you think about the top players in the past you got to reduce their age. Are you thinking time machine jumps or just making them 25 or so years younger? Since the actual speed of the players has changed very little since the 80s, I suspect there are a whole host of WRs and maybe a few TEs who could play today. If we restrict ourselves to post-1978 (last major rules change in the NFL) with the exception of size in the positions were big men reign, most of them probably could play today. Though the rise of the squatty body (guys who weigh much more than they should at their height and don't lose athleticism in the bargain) may reduce the effectiveness of some of the old guys. Yeah, obviously not saying at 50. If you took any player who was drafted in the 80's and had them compete with someone now, there'd be no contest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Actually, I think the athletes of today would struggle mightily back in the '80's. While Darrell Green competed against 6' 4" giants in his day.. today's athletes aren't used to being touched. Odelle Beckham would never have the free runs today's rules enforce. Could you imagine Jerry Rice or Gary Clark if defenders couldn't touch them? Today's players are bigger. Yesterday's players were tougher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Acre Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 2 hours ago, Burgold said: Actually, I think the athletes of today would struggle mightily back in the '80's. While Darrell Green competed against 6' 4" giants in his day.. today's athletes aren't used to being touched. Odelle Beckham would never have the free runs today's rules enforce. Could you imagine Jerry Rice or Gary Clark if defenders couldn't touch them? Today's players are bigger. Yesterday's players were tougher. That's actually a really interesting idea. Could today's players (on O that is) play back in the day when the DBs had a lot more freedom to defend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebluefood Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 On 6/20/2017 at 8:31 PM, Koolblue13 said: No athlete who retired 25 years ago could play in any professional league. 6'2" 231 pounds Ran a 5.72 40-yard-dash at age 48 (granted, I don't think we have an official time for him during his playing days) You sure about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylorcooley1 Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 This might be out in left field but does anybody else still love or I should say still have mad respect or props or whatever you want to call it for Scotty M for the selection of Brandon Sherff?... I know I still do with the best left tackle in the NFL in the Silverback and with Brandon Sherff coming around this realy is the makings of hogs 2.0 ..which leads me to I already hope rather it's pick 17,3,29 I want the best left guard available..I mean if it's a big mean nasty gritty type player like Scherff or Trent we have to take him..Shawn is not the future for sure there at that LG spot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Tater Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 16 hours ago, thebluefood said: Now, defensive backs and backers would probably also have problems today if you go back before 1978. Before that rule change, most good WR were both big and fast or at least tough as nails. Taylor was 6-3 and around 210 when he played and did all his work when DBs basically knock you down and sat on you. Offensive lineman could not hold or even extend their arms before then. As far as ability, the only real difference I see is the rise of the squatty body. To keep his athleticism at 231, Brown probably had to be around 6-2. Today, you got guys that are 2-3 inches shorter, weigh about the same and still have that level of athleticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clskinsfan Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 They would still dominate IMO. You have to remember how far weight training has come since then, They would have been bulked up another 20 or 30 pounds each. And their technique and cohesion were impeccable. On 6/20/2017 at 8:31 PM, Koolblue13 said: No athlete who retired 25 years ago could play in any professional league. I disagree with this. Lawrence Taylor and Reggie White would be completely dominate in todays NFL. Along with many others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 If you guys are saying "if player x from 30 years ago, was born 20 years ago and grew up now", then yes. Of course they'd be solid professionals today. If you're saying (which is what I'd assume the point of this is)"if you took player x from 30 years ago at the peek of his career and simply time warped him to today", then no. Of course not. No athlete back then had the training knowledge they have now. The suppliments and dietary knowledge. The techniques. They weren't quick and twitchy like they are now. Maybe some guys like LT or Derick Thomas might get some time at situational pass rushing in the 34, but there'd be better options. You really think if our line was getting drunk in a shed, instead of training, they'd be competitive? Hell no. It was a wildly different league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins island connection Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 When 'Th' Hogs' first came to stardom and fame in the early 80's, they were the biggest o-line in football. Absolutely dominated most d-lines. By the 91' season, Th' Hogs were the 3rd lightest line in football. But what made them good was their ability to work together as a unit, Depth and great coaching, utilizing 'influence blocking' to their advantage when the d-lines got bigger and stronger. Quality coaching is extremely under-rated IMO, and when you have the best such as Bugel and Hanifan, along with players who 'got the message', you have a great unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.