Hogs VS Today's NFL???

[Renegade7]

4 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

They would still dominate IMO. You have to remember how far weight training has come since then, They would have been bulked up another 20 or 30 pounds each. And their technique and cohesion were impeccable. 

 

Anyone who thinks that's what this is about, its not.  I'm talking the line as it is, week to prepare, not being born in a different generation and going to high school with Ladanian Tomilson.

 

Any line as-is going up against a modern defensive front is likely going to have problems, you simply cannot have a 268 pound center in 2017.  And you can't put on 20-30 pounds in a week.  Like I said, barely seen them play, but this is such a similar debate towards new school vs oldskool basketball. I do believe some great players from past years can hold their own in today's NFL.

 

I wonder how Bobby Mitchell would do or Larry Brown when he was healthy...

 

[Burgold]

As others have said, some are looking at yesterday's players in a vacuum. They imagine that if Jim Lachey were a 20 year old junior in college playing for Ohio State, he'd still be about 290 with the same musculature, weight training habits, diets, and skills knowledge as he did in the 80's. I argue that if Jim Lachey was a college athlete today, he'd probably be about 315, be in the top tier of quick, strong, tough lineman, and be a first round... possibly top ten pick that scouts would be drooling over.

 

Now, Bostic might have problems. He'd probably be 280 vs. 260, but as a technician he'd be at least as good as Litchensteiger and probably much better. If you remember, they kept trying to replace Bostic because even back then he was considered too light. He just always beat out the competition. He was a master of leverage and hustle.

 

Grimm would be a monster and still a probowler. He was the original mobile big man. He was nasty, big, and tough. Give him modern techniques, weight training, and nutrition and I think he'd be a top three guard in the NFL today. 

 

Jacoby might have some problems with speed rushers, but he'd still be a mauler and probably one of the strongest tackles in the league.

 

You got to remember that for the Hogs of the '80's their diet was beer and burgers. They were good old boys who used to joke that fat doesn't tear. They weren't specimens like Trent Williams, but they were still great athletes. They were the best unit out there despite being one of the lightest lines in the NFL by '91.

[nonniey]

Some positions would translate well into todays game some wouldn't  (Example - top WRs pre 1990 would have a field day against today's defenses while top DBs would be in trouble due to penalties). Not sure about linemen it would depend on the scheme even today there are top lines that can be light - usually zone blockers.

[Renegade7]

6 hours ago, Burgold said:

You got to remember that for the Hogs of the '80's their diet was beer and burgers. They were good old boys who used to joke that fat doesn't tear. They weren't specimens like Trent Williams, but they were still great athletes. They were the best unit out there despite being one of the lightest lines in the NFL by '91.

 

i don't get it, man, I just told you that's not what this thread is about (them getting the same supplements and weight gain as modern players over longer then one week period) and you go and do it anyway.  You keep reaching into your top hat with that rabbit like that's your Trump card, it's like either you don't get it or don't want to.

[Burgold]

Heck, if you want to transport the Hogs through time and plop them into a football field then I'd argue that Grimm, Lachey, would both dominate and Jacoby would be more than solid. 

 

Hell, we saw an "undersized" line function well under Shanny. However, since time travel isn't possible I think you getting upset that yesterday's athletes could get up to speed and surpass today's athletes is silly. 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

On 6/21/2017 at 5:41 PM, Burgold said:

Actually, I think the athletes of today would struggle mightily back in the '80's. While Darrell Green competed against 6' 4" giants in his day.. today's athletes aren't used to being touched. Odelle Beckham would never have the free runs today's rules enforce. Could you imagine Jerry Rice or Gary Clark if defenders couldn't touch them? Today's players are bigger. Yesterday's players were tougher. 

 

lol stop 

 

 

 

The Hogs would be destroyed today. It's ok. The would evolves over time. They are still legendary. 

[Renegade7]

48 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Hell, we saw an "undersized" line function well under Shanny. However, since time travel isn't possible I think you getting upset that yesterday's athletes could get up to speed and surpass today's athletes is silly. 

In a week, though?  That's how I know you're still not getting it.  Of course if you take any star from a time period and put them with 2017 resources they'd be a better player eventually.  Not if they played right then and there.

[Koolblue13]

Lol, hysterical. By trying to pretend this argument takes yesterdays athletes and has them in a modern strength and conditioning program makes them todays athletes and completely makes the entire conversation pointless. 

 

Oh, but time machines aren't real. 

 

Sure, but hypocritical questions are.

[Burgold]

2 hours ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

 

lol stop 

 

 

 

The Hogs would be destroyed today. It's ok. The would evolves over time. They are still legendary. 

Sure, and Darrell Green would be a slow cornerback.

 

Look. In all candor there are two things happening simultaneously. The first is that the NFL has gotten bigger and stronger though not really faster. The second is that the talent pool has been diluted by free agency. The great teams of yesteryear were by and large greater than the great years of today because you could keep everyone. The 91 Redskins could never have been assembled in an era of free agency and salary cap. The overall talent level was too high.

 

It's a con to believe that there has been a shift in human evolution over the last 20 years. If you take the athletes on the '91 skins and give them a 2017 game plan and training regimine they would be at least competitive. I'd argue the Posse of Art Monk, Ricky Sanders, and Gary Clark would be impossible for dbs to defend under today's rules. At the same time, the linebackers would probably be undersized and slow.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Are they bringing a young Joe Bugel with them as their coach?...if so, then hell yes, they would dominate.

 

and as mentioned above, give me Jim Brown in his prime (or Barry Sanders), and I bet they would embarrass all but a few of the current RBs in the league now.

[Conn]

I think a more interesting question is how low on the 2017 talent totem pole can you go and still pull a 1980's HOFer if that guy was teleported there now, as is with all his modern advantages and insane size/speed ratio? I think on the OL it goes deep. WR, same. DBs too. Passrushers. Any position that relies more heavily on elite athleticism would destroy in the 1980's imo. We're seeing athletes like we've never seen before EXCEPT in pure straight-line speed, and even that isn't really true because the guys running the 4.3's-4.4's are mammoths now.

 

I don't think the intangible "toughness" is enough to balance things out, guys play through a ton of pain nowadays and it's really only concussions that they've become more careful about. Would they get hit more? Yeah, but they have the bodies to handle it and they'd be world-class athletes playing in a league where a lot of guys had off-season jobs and no modern training regimen. I think we think of that era as tough and hard-hitting in comparison partially because the guys ragdolling each other were the same level of athlete, not just because the rules allowed more hitting. Other than a few freaks back then, players are getting hit harder now than ever before even with the safety rules--that's just science. Mass x acceleration = force. 

 

Take WR for instance. Take your top 30 great WRs of 2017, how low on that list can you go and have an unstoppable career in the 80's? The athletes at that position are insane, their technique at least as good. Maybe you think it was tougher to get open in that era, with the coverage rules. I think as long as a guy could beat the press he'd basically be uncoverable, the athletes they beat in the modern NFL are incredibly freakish. 

[Koolblue13]

I would love to see an athletic freak like Trent go back and just out maneuver and over power LT all day. Any LB could go back to 80 and frustrate any RB.

[Burgold]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

I would love to see an athletic freak like Trent go back and just out maneuver and over power LT all day. Any LB could go back to 80 and frustrate any RB.

You think Will Compton would frustrate Barry Sanders? You think Mason Foster would? You think Eric Dickerson wouldn't have a field day against them or Eddie George wouldn't truck them consistently?

[Koolblue13]

30 minutes ago, Burgold said:

You think Will Compton would frustrate Barry Sanders? You think Mason Foster would? You think Eric Dickerson wouldn't have a field day against them or Eddie George wouldn't truck them consistently?

Yes. I think Compton would frustrate Sanders and thats a very extreme scenario. I dont think Compton will be in the league very long. Has it really been that long since Eddie George was in the league?

 

Dickerson would have zero success today. Sanders wouldn't either. Lbers and Safeties would absolutely shut him down. Sanders style would work as well as the wildcat does.

[Spaceman Spiff]

You guys are hilarious.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

8 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

Take WR for instance. Take your top 30 great WRs of 2017, how low on that list can you go and have an unstoppable career in the 80's? The athletes at that position are insane, their technique at least as good. Maybe you think it was tougher to get open in that era, with the coverage rules. I think as long as a guy could beat the press he'd basically be uncoverable, the athletes they beat in the modern NFL are incredibly freakish. 

 

Odell Beckham, Jr would get get frustrated right out of his game if he had to go up against the top DBs in 1980 playing with 1980s rules. Art Monk would be a 1st down machine if he were playing against DBs today with today's rules.

 

And if any of you think Barry Sanders did NOT have "freakish athleticism", I don't know what to tell you. 

[zoony]

The hogs of the 80s would be physically dominated today.  Too small imo

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Yes. I think Compton would frustrate Sanders and thats a very extreme scenario. I dont think Compton will be in the league very long. Has it really been that long since Eddie George was in the league?

 

Dickerson would have zero success today. Sanders wouldn't either. Lbers and Safeties would absolutely shut him down. Sanders style would work as well as the wildcat does.

 

I agree with you on Dickerson, the upright striders are definitely runners of yesteryear.  Hlwever Sanders could play today and probably be just as dominant

36 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

Odell Beckham, Jr would get get frustrated right out of his game if he had to go up against the top DBs in 1980 playing with 1980s rules. Art Monk would be a 1st down machine if he were playing against DBs today with today's rules.

 

And if any of you think Barry Sanders did NOT have "freakish athleticism", I don't know what to tell you. 

 

This part is also true.  What WRs and QBs had to deal with in the 1980s were literally people trying to put them in the hospital

 

Thats why I will always give the edge to Montana over Brady as the GOAT, just because of what Montana had to deal with.  Modern NFL rules are just too slant3d in favor of offenses

[zoony]

5 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

I would love to see an athletic freak like Trent go back and just out maneuver and over power LT all day. Any LB could go back to 80 and frustrate any RB.

 

 

You should look at some of the Bridge players like Jon Ogden for instance who blocked Derrick Thomas who played in the end of the Hogs era

 

Ogden said Thomas was the best he ever faced.  And it was pretty universally accepted that LT wss better than Thomas.  Also, as much as I love Trent, he was nowhere near as good as Ogden, probably the best tackle in the history of the game

[Burgold]

16 minutes ago, zoony said:

 

 

You should look at some of the Bridge players like Jon Ogden for instance who blocked Derrick Thomas who played in the end of the Hogs era

 

Ogden said Thomas was the best he ever faced.  And it was pretty universally accepted that LT wss better than Thomas.  Also, as much as I love Trent, he was nowhere near as good as Ogden, probably the best tackle in the history of the game

Looking at closer eras... I wonder if Chris Samuels was better than Trent is. Redskins have had a history of very good left tackles.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

30 minutes ago, zoony said:

This part is also true.  What WRs and QBs had to deal with in the 1980s were literally people trying to put them in the hospital

 

Thats why I will always give the edge to Montana over Brady as the GOAT, just because of what Montana had to deal with.  Modern NFL rules are just too slant3d in favor of offenses

 

Can you imagine a WR like Beckham or Dez going up against Jack Tatum across the middle, when launching at a player helmet-to-helmet and destroying "defenseless" players with blind hits were both 1,000% legal?...I mean, DeAngelo Hall got into Dez' head and frustrated him with his physicality, and he can't hold a candle to what safeties were doing to WRs every game in the 80s.

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, zoony said:

 

 

You should look at some of the Bridge players like Jon Ogden for instance who blocked Derrick Thomas who played in the end of the Hogs era

 

Ogden said Thomas was the best he ever faced.  And it was pretty universally accepted that LT wss better than Thomas.  Also, as much as I love Trent, he was nowhere near as good as Ogden, probably the best tackle in the history of the game

Ogden probably was the best to play.

 

Sanders maybe could play today, but I think defenses as a whole have just become far more disciplined to allow what sanders did to work.

[Morneblade]

3 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Yes. I think Compton would frustrate Sanders and thats a very extreme scenario. I dont think Compton will be in the league very long. Has it really been that long since Eddie George was in the league?

 

Dickerson would have zero success today. Sanders wouldn't either. Lbers and Safeties would absolutely shut him down. Sanders style would work as well as the wildcat does.

 

This, is ridiculous. Both of those guys would be killing defenses in '17. Dickerson ran the 100 in 9.4 seconds. Do you even know how fast that is? He would still run away from everyone besides Darrell Green. Sanders is still the quickest RB to ever play the game, and add go power and excellent speed. ****, give him an actually OL to run behind, instead of that mess he had in Detroit? Give me a break. He still makes fools out of everyone today.

[Koolblue13]

11 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

This, is ridiculous. Both of those guys would be killing defenses in '17. Dickerson ran the 100 in 9.4 seconds. Do you even know how fast that is? He would still run away from everyone besides Darrell Green. Sanders is still the quickest RB to ever play the game, and add go power and excellent speed. ****, give him an actually OL to run behind, instead of that mess he had in Detroit? Give me a break. He still makes fools out of everyone today.

Well, speed is all that matters so my opinion must be ridiculous then. Hed be as good as every other upright track star. Hard to believe nobody has figured out how to stop that.

 

Defenses are faster and more disciplined now to handle RBs or even QBs who run like Sanders. He might still be good, but coaches would get sick of the increased backwards plays, which Sanders owns the record for.

[Morneblade]

Just now, Koolblue13 said:

Well, speed is all that matters so my opinion must be ridiculous then. Hed be as good as every other upright track star. Hard to believe nobody has figured out how to stop that.

 

Defenses are faster and more disciplined now to handle RBs or even QBs who run like Sanders. He might still be good, but coaches would get sick of the increased backwards plays, which Sanders owns the record for.

 

Not only was he blazing, he had this thing called "vision", something a lot of RB's don't have. And Dickerson ran high because he was 6'3. Until it was time to truck someone, and he could get very low. Or just make you miss. He was a complete running back, and would be dominant today. As for Sanders? There still isn't anyone in the league that could hold his jock. He would still be the best RB in the league, putting up his routine 1600-1800 yards per year. Unless he was in the Cowboys, and he'd be putting up like 2k every year.

[zoony]

49 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Ogden probably was the best to play.

 

Sanders maybe could play today, but I think defenses as a whole have just become far more disciplined to allow what sanders did to work.

 

There is still a ton of sloppy defense just like there was in the 80s.  Look at yhe last time we played Luck and the Colts, or what Atlanta did to us on the ground last year.  

 

In the 80s and 90s there were several defenses that were able to shut down dickerson and sanders.