Hogs VS Today's NFL???

[Burgold]

30 minutes ago, zoony said:

 

There is still a ton of sloppy defense just like there was in the 80s.  Look at yhe last time we played Luck and the Colts, or what Atlanta did to us on the ground last year.  

 

In the 80s and 90s there were several defenses that were able to shut down dickerson and sanders.  

Heck, Redskins fans can't call out sloppy defense. Did no one watch our 2015-2017 Ds?

[Koolblue13]

57 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

Not only was he blazing, he had this thing called "vision", something a lot of RB's don't have. And Dickerson ran high because he was 6'3. Until it was time to truck someone, and he could get very low. Or just make you miss. He was a complete running back, and would be dominant today. As for Sanders? There still isn't anyone in the league that could hold his jock. He would still be the best RB in the league, putting up his routine 1600-1800 yards per year. Unless he was in the Cowboys, and he'd be putting up like 2k every year.

Stop talking to me like an asshole and presenting your opinion like fact. 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

9 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Ogden probably was the best to play.

 

Sanders maybe could play today, but I think defenses as a whole have just become far more disciplined to allow what sanders did to work.

 

I think Sanders would weirdly be more effective today. Granted, he played a lot of years in a run and shoot so there are some similarities, but with all the space from sideline to sideline that exists now, I think he would thrive.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

14 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

Can you imagine a WR like Beckham or Dez going up against Jack Tatum across the middle, when launching at a player helmet-to-helmet and destroying "defenseless" players with blind hits were both 1,000% legal?...I mean, DeAngelo Hall got into Dez' head and frustrated him with his physicality, and he can't hold a candle to what safeties were doing to WRs every game in the 80s.

 

OBJ is so quick that he avoids big hits. I doubt that would change in whatever Cro Magnon era Tatum played in lol. You guys act like safeties aren't trying to kill guys over the middle currently. They are. They just have to be more careful. Either way, OBJ's quickness would essentially make him unstoppable back then 

 

Dez, maybe you have a point. He doesn't have that elite trait that 13 does 

[Morneblade]

12 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Stop talking to me like an asshole and presenting your opinion like fact. 

 

You first.

[Riggo'sRangers]

20 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

Can you imagine a WR like Beckham or Dez going up against Jack Tatum across the middle, when launching at a player helmet-to-helmet and destroying "defenseless" players with blind hits were both 1,000% legal?...I mean, DeAngelo Hall got into Dez' head and frustrated him with his physicality, and he can't hold a candle to what safeties were doing to WRs every game in the 80s.

Imagine Dez & Beckham going up against Sean. As much as DeAngelo got into Dez' head, he would have nightmares about ST. Imagine Sean Taylor in the 80's/Tatum era. Hail

[Koolblue13]

58 minutes ago, Riggo'sRangers said:

Imagine Dez & Beckham going up against Sean. As much as DeAngelo got into Dez' head, he would have nightmares about ST. Imagine Sean Taylor in the 80's/Tatum era. Hail

Everyone had nightmares about him and he was quiet. 

[Renegade7]

21 hours ago, Morneblade said:

 

Not only was he blazing, he had this thing called "vision", something a lot of RB's don't have.

 

 

This actually does sound pretty condescending the more I read it, like none of us know what vision is.

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

 

This actually does sound pretty condescending the more I read it, like none of us know what vision is.

Yes yes, maybe sir morneblade could tell us all of this vision thing in which he speaks. Did it come from his fancy visor? 

[Morneblade]

9 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

This actually does sound pretty condescending the more I read it, like none of us know what vision is.

 

And like every RB has it, right? Oh, that's right, no every one does. To me, saying guys like Dickerson and Sanders would be nothing in today's NFL is just sheer ignorance. I guess Bo Jackson would suck too. And honestly, I'm not really in the mood to deal with this level of um.............silliness.

8 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Yes yes, maybe sir morneblade could tell us all of this vision thing in which he speaks. Did it come from his fancy visor? 

 

Oh yes, let's not be condescending. I'll make sure to bring it up the next time you talk about Rob Kelley or some other guy missing a hole because his "lack of vision". Just so you know what it means, right? Or maybe I'll bring up the fact that Matt Jones is the same size, fumbles the ball all the time, is slower, is as physical as a flower and was still averaging 4.5 yards a carry? And you're telling me Dickerson would do nothing? Forgive me if I just laugh at you.

[Renegade7]

15 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

And like every RB has it, right? Oh, that's right, no every one does. To me, saying guys like Dickerson and Sanders would be nothing in today's NFL is just sheer ignorance. I guess Bo Jackson would suck too. And honestly, I'm not really in the mood to deal with this level of um.............silliness.

You sound like you need a snickers.  I don't agree that no athletes from the 80s or 90s would stand a chance today, but I also don't agree with how you're going about making that point (which is specifically what I called you on).  You really don't have to post in here if you don't want to. 

[Morneblade]

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

You sound like you need a snickers.  I don't agree that no athletes from the 80s or 90s would stand a chance today, but I also don't agree with how you're going about making that point (which is specifically what I called you on).  You really don't have to post in here if you don't want to. 

 

Well, if I came off in a way that you didn't like, because when someone says "Sanders and Dickerson would be nothing today", and I think it's silly? Sorry. I think it's silly. A snickers would not help either, I'm not hangry. I've dealt with more idiocy today than the FDA allows, but it's not lack of food. It's idiots. Had to yell at stupid kids and their stupid parents at the beach today because #1. Two little pricks were harrassing the wildlife and trying to hurt it and #2. Not one parent did a goddamn thing about it. So, they got to deal with the Wolverine today. And he's still lurking.

 

Oh, and thanks for letting me know that I don't have to post in here if I don't want to. I would have never thought about that myself.

[Renegade7]

3 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

Well, if I came off in a way that you didn't like, because when someone says "Sanders and Dickerson would be nothing today", and I think it's silly? Sorry. I think it's silly. A snickers would not help either, I'm not hangry. I've dealt with more idiocy today than the FDA allows, but it's not lack of food. It's idiots. Had to yell at stupid kids and their stupid parents at the beach today because #1. Two little pricks were harrassing the wildlife and trying to hurt it and #2. Not one parent did a goddamn thing about it. So, they got to deal with the Wolverine today. And he's still lurking.

 

Oh, and thanks for letting me know that I don't have to post in here if I don't want to. I would have never thought about that myself.

I hope you don't expect me to feel sorry for you, just stop posting in here already.

[Morneblade]

48 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

I hope you don't expect me to feel sorry for you, just stop posting in here already.

 

I don't.

 

But I do expect you to stop telling me what I should and should not be doing. Since you're not a mod, and I'm not violating any of the rules, I can post, or not as I see fit.

[GhostofSparta]

55 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

I hope you don't expect me to feel sorry for you, just stop posting in here already.

 

3 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

I don't.

 

But I do expect you to stop telling me what I should and should not be doing. Since you're not a mod, and I'm not violating any of the rules, I can post, or not as I see fit.

[Renegade7]

49 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

 I can post, or not as I see fit.

Seriously, that doesn't mean you should though. That adds nothing to the discussion, btw,

[NickyJ]

I'm sorry, I got lost partway though. How did we go from talking about the Hogs to beating each other with e-sticks?

 

On second thought, I'm not sure I want to know.

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, NickyJ said:

I'm sorry, I got lost partway though. How did we go from talking about the Hogs to beating each other with e-sticks?

 

On second thought, I'm not sure I want to know.

It doesn't matter, honestly.

 

Thinking of voting "average".  It makes a lot of sense to say "they're really well coached, so they won't beat themselves".  Though a lot of defenses have players faster and stronger then the 80s and 90s, some of these defenses today do suck, no other way around it.  Some are pretty average themselves.

 

I just can't get behind having a 268 lb center, I just don't how you can hide that.  Dad said Bostic could definitely handle his own, had the personality for it, but like others have noted, that toughness only costs for so many bean coins when adding it all up.  I'm doing everything I can not to pick "wouldn't stand a chance", can see I haven't voted yet.

[Koolblue13]

I know what the **** vision is. 

 

I know not every player has it.

 

I have no ****ing idea what Dickerson and Kelley have to do with each other.

[Burgold]

I think one of the better arguments about how yesterday's superstars would excel against today's players was made by Darrell Green. Very late in Green's career he was matched up against Randy Moss, the epitome of the big fast modern player. Green was in his 40's and Moss was in his prime. You remember the game or you should. It was Green on Moss one on one with no help for most of the day. The result? Green shut down Moss. No touchdowns, no big plays, and barely a catch.

 

What's weird is that some of you are talking about NFL players of the '80's and 90's as if they were the players of the '50's who needed to take a second job and who treated football almost as a hobby. By the 80's, players were paid well. They may not have been paid millions upon millions, but the hundreds of thousands they were paid were enough for them to become full time athletes. When Wilbur Marshall became the Redskins 6 million dollar man, he wasn't bagging groceries at the Piggly Wiggly during the Spring.

 

I'm not sure Monte Coleman would be a great linebacker today, but I suspect he'd be a fine nicklebacker or safety. 

 

I'll give you that the mediocre players of yesterday might have a tough time being back ups today, but the good ones would still be good. The great ones would probably still be great. Jerry Rice would still get his catches and a lot more of them with today's rules. Russ Grimm would still plow down D Linemen. Darrell Green would still be too short, but he was always too short... even on the day he was drafted.

[Dark Acre]

1 hour ago, Burgold said:

What's weird is that some of you are talking about NFL players of the '80's and 90's as if they were the players of the '50's who needed to take a second job and who treated football almost as a hobby. By the 80's, players were paid well. They may not have been paid millions upon millions, but the hundreds of thousands they were paid were enough for them to become full time athletes. When Wilbur Marshall became the Redskins 6 million dollar man, he wasn't bagging groceries at the Piggly Wiggly during the Spring.

I remember the Topps football cards from the mid-70's (I used to buy the cello packs if at least 1 Skin was visible) which listed the players' offseason jobs on the back.  Lotta guys sold cars.  Heck, the father of 2 kids on my street worked at Chris Hanburger Ford.  But yes, by the 80's they may not have been millionaires, but so long as they weren't blowing their money, they didn't have to work in the offseason.  The average salary in 1984 was $162,000.  First of all, if you weren't at least a teenager in 1984, you have no concept of what $162,000 was worth.  That was a ton of $ in 1984.  Unless you had a habit (or child support), you didn't need to work outside football.  Guys did take on 2nd jobs because they wanted more $, or were bored (football wasn't ubiquitous year round yet), but yeah, they were paid like pros, not hobbyists. 

[Forehead]

So I read over this and thought about it a bit, and if we're transporting players from that time, in their primes, most of them would get their asses handed to them, no question.  Hate to say it.  Era's and training matter.  I've read some stories from the Hogs, and besides LT, one guy that gets brought up as being a pain in their ass was Randy White, a 9x 1st team all Pro at D-Tackle.  Randy White's playing size, per NFL.com, was 6'4" and 257 pounds.  As a D-Tackle.  The guy we just signed, who is about as middle of the road as you can get, Stacy McGee, is 6'3" and 341 pounds.  And that's the size with the playing caliber of a Stacy McGee, not someone like Ndamukong Suh or even a Haloti Ngata, who is the same height as Randy White but 100 pounds heavier.

 

Translation:  Jeff Bostic might get murdered on the field.  Grimm, Schlereth, and May would all be physically overpowered.  Joe Jacoby *might* be able to hold up physically, but he would be way too slow.  Can you imagine Jacoby trying to block the Von Miller's of the world?  Jim Lachey I think it the only one who might have a chance.  He was such a complete player and at 290, was at least close enough to the needed size that he could last.

 

John Riggins would get killed.  By today's standards, he's really slow, and I don't remember him being a pass catcher.  He'd never be able to truck today's linebackers.

 

I actually think Darrell Green would have a fair amount of success.  His speed would have translated to today's game, and if you have heart and technique to go with it, you have a chance.  I don't know if he would be a CB, but as a FS?  You're telling me he wouldn't be as good as Tyrann Mathieu, who is the exact same size?

 

Similarly, for reasons mentioned above, I think the elite WR's would succeed very well in today's league, simply by being more protected.  I'm not saying their stats would be inflated by any means, but speed is speed.  Clark and Sanders would probably draw a number of PI penalties each season to make up for their lack of catches.  In their time, those were more likely to be incompletions with the defense draped on them.  I don't remember Jerry Rice being the fastest ever, but so precise with his routes which is always a plus in today's offenses.  He'd do as well as a Marvin Harrison type, if not better.

 

As far as the RB argument, Sanders would be successful today.  The default defense nowadays is nickel.  Put Sanders in a standard 3-Wide with a TE, and it's basically him vs. a LB on most plays.  LB's are better, faster, etc. nowadays, and in the nickel, would have more secondary support, but I could easily see Sanders averaging 5-6 a pop and making the first guy miss consistently.  If he could be coached to run forward most of the time and take what he's given, I see no reason why he wouldn't have a productive career.

 

Eric Dickerson gives me an Arian Foster type of vibe.  I could absolutely see him pounding out a few very good seasons, but his upright running style would cut his career short, with an accumulation of hits from much larger defensive players than he played against.

[Burgold]

I think you are mixing up Dallas' Randy White (257 lb DE) with Philadelphia's Reggie White (

Reggie White - Wikipedia 

Reginald Howard White (December 19, 1961 – December 26, 2004)  Weight: 300 lb (136 kg)

[Forehead]

No, I'm very much talking about Randy White, D-Tackle for the Cowboys, member of the 1994 HOF class, 9x all Pro (not Pro Bowl, All-Pro). Look him up.  He's laughed about around here mostly because he was a victim of that sequence where Gibbs called 50 gut something like 9 straight times, but stories I've seen from the Hogs always referred to him as a pretty tough guy to deal with.  And he's 50-100 pounds, and presumably not nearly as strong, as today's average DT's.

Sorry Burg, I'm not with you on this one.

 

"During his third season (1977), White was moved to right defensive tackle, the same position formerly occupied by "Mr. Cowboy", Bob Lilly, from 1961 through 1974, a move which in turn moved veteran Larry Cole back to his natural defensive end position (backing up Ed "Too Tall" Jones and Harvey Martin, though he did play left defensive tackle after the retirement of Jethro Pugh."

[Burgold]

Well, I can't argue that 257 is awfully light for a DT these days. Thought he was a defensive end. That was around what Dexter Manley weighed. I think Mann was a bit heavier.

 

Still, What I remember was Randy White not being much of a threat to our Hogs. We pretty much dominated him and Dallas. Of course, that could be my homer, rose color fogged burgundy  memory talking.