The 2017 FA Thread - OP Updated with Signings (Sundberg, Galette, VD, Hood re-signed) *** Terrell McClain, Stacy McGee, DJ Swearinger, Terrelle Pryor, Chris Carter, Brian Quick, ZACH BROWN(!!)***

[Conn]

1 hour ago, carex said:

 

the offense needs to tread water this year because it was the defense that was the weakness last year.  In fact if after the draft we've "taken advantage of the deepest RB or TE classes in recent memory, " I will be joining in the Fire Bruce chants.

 

And we came into the offseason thinking we had a crapload of cap space.  The contracts offered and signed have shown that was not the case, not for the top spots and the fans need to admit that

 

The offense does not need to just "tread water" for us to be successful. We currently have a QB for one year. We have what we hope is a WR1 for one year. We have an unproven rookie and a good slot WR. We have a great receiving TE but you're crazy if you don't think we could use another in this great draft for TE's. We do not have a running game, on the OL side or the RB side. Our entire offense lives and dies on the passing game and the pass blocking of the OL, which is helped by the quick release of Cousins, who is helped by having a lot of weapons.

 

All of this is in question past this year, AND we have done nothing to improve the defense in the meantime. Our offense last year is probably best-case scenario to PRAY for this year, with different (possibly lesser) weapons. And our ceiling last year? Yeah we didn't make the playoffs and our division rivals are improving for the most part. 

 

That is the point I'm making. We will be LUCKY to just tread water on offense, but realistically we could easily be worse. And yet we haven't improved the defense and if we do that through the draft, it probably means we aren't having a running game again either. So no matter what we do, we screw ourselves somewhere else because we didn't fill any holes in FA.

 

 

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

59 minutes ago, SemperFi Skins said:

Anyone see Mason Fosters latest tweet?

 

"I love Tampa"

 

i know it probably is just a vacation, just seems ironic... 

 

yes he used to play there. And never mind anyway, because Gerald McCoy tweeted for him to come back and Mason tweeted #HTTR

 

 

 

It's subliminal code to get Captain Clueless to extend him.

 

If you big up Tampa, Bruce will come! 

 

Hail 

[carex]

19 minutes ago, Pick6 said:

 

I have no problem with smart FA moves that don't hurt the team financial. I just can't wrap my head around not ever speaking to Baker who would have cost $6 mil and played around 70% of snaps. Poe ended up being $8 mil for one year. Neither of those guys would have broken the bank. Instead we get two guys who cost around $5 mil each but have never played 50% of defensive snaps. Neither should be playing NT.  

 

thy did speak to baker before FA, then they declined to continue to offer.  And neither of the guys they signed are playig NT, plus one cost closer to 3.1 mil and the other 3.8

12 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

The offense does not need to just "tread water" for us to be successful. We currently have a QB for one year. We have what we hope is a WR1 for one year. We have an unproven rookie and a good slot WR. We have a great receiving TE but you're crazy if you don't think we could use another in this great draft for TE's. We do not have a running game, on the OL side or the RB side. Our entire offense lives and dies on the passing game and the pass blocking of the OL, which is helped by the quick release of Cousins, who is helped by having a lot of weapons.

 

All of this is in question past this year, AND we have done nothing to improve the defense in the meantime. Our offense last year is probably best-case scenario to PRAY for this year, with different (possibly lesser) weapons. And our ceiling last year? Yeah we didn't make the playoffs and our division rivals are improving for the most part. 

 

That is the point I'm making. We will be LUCKY to just tread water on offense, but realistically we could easily be worse. And yet we haven't improved the defense and if we do that through the draft, it probably means we aren't having a running game again either. So no matter what we do, we screw ourselves somewhere else because we didn't fill any holes in FA.

 

 

 

well you know what, if your ideas are accurate then I don't think there was ever a way for us to improve this year.  There were to many FA, not enough money and not enough draft picks.

[elkabong82]

2 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Good question.  I was interested to find that out as well.  The ranking in terms of 2016 defensive DVOA is here: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef

 

1. Denver - One player (Crick) at 81.9% of snaps played.  Two at around 57%.  Next highest at 29.9%.

2. NYG - One player (Vernon) at 93.6%.  Hankins and JPP at around 70%.  Harrison at 60.7%.  Next highest at 33.1%.

3. Arizona - One player (Calais Campbell) at 77%.  The rest below 50%.

4. Philly - Two players (Graham and Cox) at 75%.  Barwin at 70%.  The rest below 50%.

5. Seattle - One player (Cliff Avril) at 76.9%.  Frank Clark at 63.2%. Two players at around 55%.  The rest below 50%

6. Baltimore - Two players (Brandon Williams and Timmy Jernigan) at around 60%.  The rest below 50%.

7. Houston - One player (Clowney) at 73%.  Wilfork at 50%.  The rest below 50%.

8. San Diego - One player (Liuget) at 75.8%.  Bosa at 52.6%.  The rest below 50%.

9. Minnesota - One player (Griffen) at 85.8%.  Robinson at 80.9%.  Joseph at 69.7%.  Two players at around 55%.  The rest below 50%.

10. Carolina - One player (KK Short) at 73%.  Star L. at 65.7%.  Ealy at 58.3%.  Johnson at 50.6%.  The rest below 50%.

 

vs.

 

25. Redskins - One player (Baker) at 71.2%.  Hood at 60.1%.  The rest below 50%.

That's asking a lot.  If you notice, none of the guys above who led their teams in snap counts were rookies.  The most likely scenario to me is that we have a rotation of guys playing around 50% of the snaps, which, as proven with the snap counts shown above, does not lead to a top defense.

 

Excellent, thank you for taking the time to dig all that up. My guess would be they are banking on one of the new DL stepping up further since they are trending upward in terms of level of play. It's a big leap though. Perhaps we're also banking on our current depth stepping up, like Lanier and Ionnidas. Maybe that is why we moved on from Baker, because we want younger guys stepping up into that % snaps. Don't know, can only guess. 

 

PFF rankings befuddle me, because I watched all the Skins games this season just like any other one, and was even in gameday thread quite a bit. I don't recall people often praising Baker as the lone standout among a bad DL, which seems to me would have happened if we was playing well while everyone else sucked. But then again perceptions can be wrong so who knows. I'm not forking out $249 either to find out, lol. Still, he played most of the snaps and the DL was meh, so it's hard to fault the team for getting younger. Unfrotunately, the replacements are not awe-inspiring. I do think they'll help us get better at stopping the run at least and holding the line. That DL got pushed around a lot last year. 

 

Looking at the above, it seems we need "that guy" on the DL. The top 10 player who will play around 70% of snaps and be a force, and then have a solid rotation at the other spots. Maybe the team thought it could be Baker, hence not replacing last year's DL with upgrades. I don't think any of would claim Baker was that kind of player, and maybe the team decided it would be better to just move on and give other the chance than pay a 30 year old $6 mil a year when he's not the guy they need. I get that. Maybe it's why they didn't pony up for Calais or Logan either. Maybe they already have their guy in mind in the draft? As a rookie he won't hit those snaps likely, but maybe he grows in it? Unsure. We know the team was in on Calais and Logan, even after our 2 DL signings, so at least we know the team recognizes it needs a bigger performer on the DL still, so hopefully if not FA with Hankins we get one early in the draft. 

[nemocystem]

Most missed tackles were actually a secondary issue.  The ILBs had a lot of trouble because nobody sucked up blockers, & if anyone gained penetration vs the run, it was often 1 guy who was easily pushed out of the way,  or avoided en route to open field.

 

It was almost like getting penetration was a death sentence... (which is usually only true for honey bees?)

[Est.1974]

@HTTRDynasty nice % stats. The reality is we have signed 2 new starting DE to play 60-70% of snaps. Whether they have that in them remains to be seen. #2 defense has Hankins with 70%....

[fordranger76]

16 minutes ago, nemocystem said:

Most missed tackles were actually a secondary issue.  The ILBs had a lot of trouble because nobody sucked up blockers, & if anyone gained penetration vs the run, it was often 1 guy who was easily pushed out of the way,  or avoided en route to open field.

 

It was almost like getting penetration was a death sentence... (which is usually only true for honey bees?)

I remember screaming in the game day threads about Compton lol. Over and over again he was missing a gap or getting sucked up into lineman or missing tackles. He was a mess. My only hope is that Reuben Foster gets drafted because whats in free agency I dont think is going to help. Even so I think Foster is the better of the two backers. Compton IMO needs to be replaced in a hurry.

[HTTRDynasty]

21 minutes ago, fordranger76 said:

I remember screaming in the game day threads about Compton lol. Over and over again he was missing a gap or getting sucked up into lineman or missing tackles. He was a mess. My only hope is that Reuben Foster gets drafted because whats in free agency I dont think is going to help. Even so I think Foster is the better of the two backers. Compton IMO needs to be replaced in a hurry.

 

PFF also had Mason Foster as the much better player.  He was given a grade of 86.3 (actually the best grade out of all our front 7 players).  Compton was given a grade of 46.2.  PFF grades aren't the end-all be-all, but that's a pretty striking difference.

 

The sad part is that Compton played 85.3% of defensive snaps.  Foster only played 70.0%.  Drafting Reuben Foster or Hassan Reddick in the 1st would completely transform this defense IMO. 

[Est.1974]

Bengals are signing LB Minter on a one year deal.

[carex]

I hope this one year deal thing is a one year aberration

[Peregrine]

The good thing about the one year deals is we will get another shot at all of these players next year!

[Conn]

21 minutes ago, carex said:

I hope this one year deal thing is a one year aberration

 

Saw one of the big media guys say that out of 155 contracts so far, only 23 have more than $3M guaranteed past 2017. So like 85% of the contracts are basically one year deals with team options. Think it was Breer.

[Wildbunny]

Yes it was Breer.

That's an interesting way the League is evolving to. They're less likely to give multi year contracts to not established stars. And many players are going for one year deal or spend their whole career switching teams. Soon there won't be much difference between one year deal and Tagging a guy.

 

With cap rising up it's easier to sign a guy for 6/7M for one year than signing someone on a 4 year contract with 15 guaranteed.

[Morneblade]

2 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

PFF also had Mason Foster as the much better player.  He was given a grade of 86.3 (actually the best grade out of all our front 7 players).  Compton was given a grade of 46.2.  PFF grades aren't the end-all be-all, but that's a pretty striking difference.

 

The sad part is that Compton played 85.3% of defensive snaps.  Foster only played 70.0%.  Drafting Reuben Foster or Hassan Reddick in the 1st would completely transform this defense IMO. 

 

 

This is really interesting. All offseason last year all we heard about was Will Compton, Will Compton, Will Compton, from Barry. And in the only game I can remember any ILB standing out in a positive way, it was Foster, and his 16 tackles against the Giants at the end of the year.

 

Another reason I really didn't like Barry. Can't you see how bad this guys sucks, and your a ex LB coach?!

 

If we can just get a really athletic ILB to replace Compton, it MIGHT not be so bad. We might only need one ILB, although I don't like Foster much in coverage.

 

Something has to be done with the DL though. At this point, I'm ready to concede that no big influx of talent is going to happen there, and it's not going to change from last year. Allen has been really cheap in regards to the DL since he has been here. Maybe, he thinks we can just throw bodies there, like we have been for the most part and think the back end will solve all the issues. I don't know. But I don't see anything in the draft that we'll have a shot at that is really going to help much.

 

Man, I hope I am wrong.

[Skinsinparadise]

On 3/14/2017 at 3:52 PM, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

 

'Bama's Tomlinson in the 2/3rd if you're after one. 

 

Best 1 tech in the entire class and it's not even close. 

 

Hail. 

 

Yeah agree, I've talked about him on this thread and the draft thread.  But now he's zoomed up in my book to it would be nice to get him to I am desperate to get him.    Unless a new DT signing is in the offing in FA.  The other one for me is Qualls.  1-0 technique types.

[petedaddy]

8 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

 

This is really interesting. All offseason last year all we heard about was Will Compton, Will Compton, Will Compton, from Barry. And in the only game I can remember any ILB standing out in a positive way, it was Foster, and his 16 tackles against the Giants at the end of the year.

 

Another reason I really didn't like Barry. Can't you see how bad this guys sucks, and your a ex LB coach?!

 

If we can just get a really athletic ILB to replace Compton, it MIGHT not be so bad. We might only need one ILB, although I don't like Foster much in coverage.

 

Something has to be done with the DL though. At this point, I'm ready to concede that no big influx of talent is going to happen there, and it's not going to change from last year. Allen has been really cheap in regards to the DL since he has been here. Maybe, he thinks we can just throw bodies there, like we have been for the most part and think the back end will solve all the issues. I don't know. But I don't see anything in the draft that we'll have a shot at that is really going to help much.

 

Man, I hope I am wrong.

 

I believe Foster is a capable NFL linebacker and would look good next to a star LB and behind a capable DL (of which we have neither)

 

Compton should be nothing more than depth but it's starting to look like we're just left with praying for miracles in the draft or hoping for another late cut

[Morneblade]

Just now, petedaddy said:

 

I believe Foster is a capable NFL linebacker and would look good next to a star LB and behind a capable DL (of which we have neither)

 

Compton should be nothing more than depth but it's starting to look like we're just left with praying for miracles in the draft or hoping for another late cut

 

 

Yeah, I think that Foster is exactly that, a very average ILB, that can tackle pretty well. I'm sure that if he was say ranked out of 100 ILB, he would be like #50. He is completely average. A JAG, if you will, but if you have a couple guys around him, he looks better. But, you're again, we have nothing around him.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

16 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah agree, I've talked about him on this thread and the draft thread.  But now he's zoomed up in my book to it would be nice to get him to I am desperate to get him.    Unless a new DT signing is in the offing in FA.  The other one for me is Qualls.  1-0 technique types.

 

 

 

 

Should be able to bag him day 2 somewhere in the 2nd. Maybe with a little trade up. (Quails.). 

 

I also like the guy out of Charlotte a heck of a lot. Ogunjobi. Could be a 1 or a 3 tech. Again, have a second round grade on him for what that's worth. 

 

Tomlinson's the best of the bunch but it's now becoming more and more imperative to bag one after the complete bungling of this FA. 

 

Which all probably means we go offense at 17. 

 

Hail. 

 

*Edit* And by 'bag one', I mean bag one EARLY!. There's a BIG drop off quickly after those few guys. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

 

Should be able to bag him day 2 somewhere in the 2nd. Maybe with a little trade up. (Quails.). 

 

I also like the guy out of Charlotte a heck of a lot. Ogunjobi. Could be a 1 or a 3 tech. Again, have a second round grade on him for what that's worth. 

 

Tomlinson's the best of the bunch but it's now becoming more and more imperative to bag one after the complete bungling of this FA. 

 

Which all probably means we go offense at 17. 

 

Hail. 

 

I agree if they use their 2nd round pick they should be able to nail a NT, if so too bad they boxed themselves in like that.  The mid-2nd round is often a great position to get a first round value guy who unexpectedly drops.  UK time is late right now -- prepping for the City match I guess?  Or Redskins FO mishaps making it tough to sleep at night? 

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

.....  UK time is late right now -- prepping for the City match I guess?  Or Redskins FO mishaps making it tough to sleep at night? 

 

 

In bed on the lappy just wrapping up. Been doing scouting work for our draft. How 'fun' am I on a Sat'day evening? 

 

10:26 train into Oxford Road tomorrow. Just put something up the soccer thread that has me buzzing. 

 

Mighty Reds! 

 

Hail. 

[moondog]

8 hours ago, fordranger76 said:

It is not a matter of would you rather. When you need depth all over the line and one guy costs 8 to 10 million things become a lot more hard to fit into the puzzle. Of course I would take Logan/Hankins but not at a future cost of losing Moses, Scheffr, or Cousins a year or two later.

It's absolutely who would you rather. It's how do you allocate the funds. For McClain and McGee we could have had Logan. And it doesn't affect future contracts in any way on a one year deal which is what Logan signed. And we didn't freaking need swearinger either. The backend is pointless when we give up 4.5 ypc. 

 

Dont sign swearinger, McClain or McGee. Or this scrub carter - we already have garvin, spaight and Daniels. You sign Hankins AND Logan and Pryor in addition to the re-signed players we kept and sign Kirk long term, which saves cap this year. Call it a day in FA. We already have much of the depth we need on defense, we lack anyone that makes a significant impact on the run. 

 

NT: Logan (Ioannidis)

DE: Hankins and Hood (Lanier and another rotational guy - likely a rookie or one of our future contract guys)

ILB: Compton/Foster (Garvin/spaight/Daniels)

OLB: Kerrigan/Gallette (Murphy/smith)

CB: Norman/Breeland (Fuller/pick a guy - maybe toler)

SS: Cravens (Everett)

FS: Hall/Blackmon 

 

and none one of this includes rookies - we have ten picks to fill in depth and get an impact player or two in a deep defensive draft. 

Please tell me that we couldn't afford this and that it isn't drastically better than what we actually have done. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

 

In bed on the lappy just wrapping up. Been doing scouting work for our draft. How 'fun' am I on a Sat'day evening? 

 

10:26 train into Oxford Road tomorrow. Just put something up the soccer thread that has me buzzing. 

 

Mighty Reds! 

 

Hail. 

 

Cool. I'll check out out.  Since they are playing a big team -- it should bode well.  Massive game.  It's on national network TV here.   The way this year has been, I'd worry more if they were playing Sunderland in Anfield then playing City away.

[RandyHolt]

Is it wise to spend a top pick on a NT since at best we only plan to use him for 25% of the snaps, or will a true nose be playing when we are in our more preferred 4-2-5?  I worry we will get our proper return on investment.

 

I miss the 4-3 days when finding a DL would never require 7 years. And counting.

[Morneblade]

3 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Is it wise to spend a top pick on a NT since at best we only plan to use him for 25% of the snaps, or will a true nose be playing when we are in our more preferred 4-2-5?  I worry we will get our proper return on investment.

 

I miss the 4-3 days when finding a DL wouldn't never require 7 years. And counting.

 

I just watched a few older Redskins videos, back during Gibbs 2 and stuff in the 80's. Our DL was so much better. Our LB's were so much better.

[RandyHolt]

Seriously, the search for a nose has to be considered a total failure to this point. Will we accept another 7 years as just bad luck and stick with the 3-4 no matter what?

 

Agreed @Morneblade - outside of a handful of stud plays from our college 4-3 linemen converted to 34 backers, our front 7 has sucked for a long time. We looked so much more competent as a 4-3.