The Gun Control Debate Thread

[JCB]

So inspired. I want me an Emma Gonzalez t-shirt.

[visionary]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 25, 2018 by visionary

[Mrshadow008]

On 3/22/2018 at 9:40 PM, Springfield said:

I’m interested in the responsible gun owner’s recommendation on mental health issues becaue I don’t believe I’ve actually heard one yet.

I’ve said this before as a responsible gun owner I agree there needs to be harsher background checks and something that can be done about selling to someone with a mental illness. However with that being said nobody can seem to decide where the line is drawn. You can’t just say someone with a mental illness can’t have a gun. There has to be an actual definition of what mental illness is for that to happen which no one can ever seem to tell me when I ask. For example I grew up with extreme adhd and still struggle with it at times now and yes adhd is technically defined as a mental illness but yet I’m a responsible gun owner whose gun is locked up with a trigger lock and a safe all day until I go to sleep at night or if I go to the range. I haven’t even carried it months because I haven’t had time to go renew my concealed license. But technically I have a mental illness so should I not be allowed to own a firearm? Everyone wants to throw out keeping people with mental illnesses from owning guns but that’s a very very broad brush you’re painting with. I don’t disagree with the sentiment at all but there needs to be a very defined definition and line drawn in the sand of what mental illness is and what kinds of mental illnesses keeps someone from owning a gun because there are a large number of things that are deemed mental illness. 

[ixcuincle]

 

[Mrshadow008]

Curious to know how many people you know that own an m-4 

[clskinsfan]

38 minutes ago, Mrshadow008 said:

Curious to know how many people you know that own an m-4 

 

Exactly ZERO. It is a military weapon.

 

I do want to say that I was impressed with the protesting yesterday. No violence, no partisanship. Just people using their CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to gather for what they believe. They targeted ANY representative that doesnt believe in their cause. That is the way it should be. Funny how the founders knew how important those CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS were going to be isnt it? 

[Springfield]

9 hours ago, Mrshadow008 said:

I’ve said this before as a responsible gun owner I agree there needs to be harsher background checks and something that can be done about selling to someone with a mental illness. However with that being said nobody can seem to decide where the line is drawn. You can’t just say someone with a mental illness can’t have a gun. There has to be an actual definition of what mental illness is for that to happen which no one can ever seem to tell me when I ask. For example I grew up with extreme adhd and still struggle with it at times now and yes adhd is technically defined as a mental illness but yet I’m a responsible gun owner whose gun is locked up with a trigger lock and a safe all day until I go to sleep at night or if I go to the range. I haven’t even carried it months because I haven’t had time to go renew my concealed license. But technically I have a mental illness so should I not be allowed to own a firearm? Everyone wants to throw out keeping people with mental illnesses from owning guns but that’s a very very broad brush you’re painting with. I don’t disagree with the sentiment at all but there needs to be a very defined definition and line drawn in the sand of what mental illness is and what kinds of mental illnesses keeps someone from owning a gun because there are a large number of things that are deemed mental illness. 

 

That’s the conundrum that I run into myself when thinking about the mental illness aspect of this.  Mental illness is such a broad definition that describes a multitude of problems and it can be abstract.

 

It’s common sense to take guns out of the hands of violent offenders but what about people who haven’t been charged with any crime?  That description fits many of these mass murderers.  People like spousal abusers who have their charges dropped by their wives?  People whose parents don’t have the heart to turn them in when they kill a stray dog?  There are certainly warning signs in some of these people, but were they really doing anything that should strip them of their right to bear arms as it stands now?

 

The gray areas above are what prevents mass murders when it comes to mental health.

1 minute ago, clskinsfan said:

 

Exactly ZERO. It is a military weapon.

 

I do want to say that I was impressed with the protesting yesterday. No violence, no partisanship. Just people using their CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to gather for what they believe. They targeted ANY representative that doesnt believe in their cause. That is the way it should be. Funny how the founders knew how important those CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS were going to be isnt it? 

 

It’s almost as if they had experience in it...

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

1 minute ago, clskinsfan said:

Funny how the founders knew how important those CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS were going to be isnt it? 

Yup. They'd probably be pretty pissed at the NRA's ****ization of their 2nd amendment, marketing killing machines to unstable and easily misled individuals using an advertising campaign based on lies, fear, and hate all so that some really rich people can get a little more rich.

[clskinsfan]

2 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Yup. They'd probably be pretty pissed at the NRA's ****ization of their 2nd amendment, marketing killing machines to unstable and easily misled individuals using an advertising campaign based on lies, fear, and hate all so that some really rich people can get a little more rich.

 

So what if people think Antifa gathering is based on a campaign of lies, fear and hate? Should their CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to gather be taken away?

[TradeTheBeal!]

2 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

 

So what if people think Antifa gathering is based on a campaign of lies, fear and hate? Should their CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to gather be taken away?

 

Following protocol.

Operating nominally.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

[clskinsfan]

8 minutes ago, Springfield said:

 

That’s the conundrum that I run into myself when thinking about the mental illness aspect of this.  Mental illness is such a broad definition that describes a multitude of problems and it can be abstract.

 

 

 

Exactly. And who gets to decide who is placed on the "no gun" list? Is it some politician in Washington? Is it a local sheriff who may have a personal issue with someone? A teacher, employer? Who. Who gets to decide that someone who has broken no law will have their constitutional rights stripped from them?

2 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

Following protocol.

Operating nominally.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

 

You are mistaken. I get his point. The question is how many of our constitutional rights are you willing to give away? If one of them is taken you can bet all of them are vulnerable. And you failed to answer my question. If your gathering is deemed "dangerous" by some bureaucrat should your right to gather be removed?

[LadySkinsFan]

13 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

 

So what if people think Antifa gathering is based on a campaign of lies, fear and hate? Should their CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to gather be taken away?

 

Okay, I will play with your strawman. 

 

In Charlottesville, those NeoNazi protesters were carrying lethal weapons. I don't have a problem with them protesting. I have a big problem with them carrying lethal weapons. And that extends to that murderer who ran over numerous people inflicting serious injuries and killed a woman.

 

We have seen hundreds of thousands if not millions protesting at the Women's March in 2017, and hundreds of thousands if not millions marching yesterday. No lethal weapons, no murders.

 

So, protesters should only be granted permits to those who make sure that their participants don't carry lethal weapons, and if they do they are subject to huge fines.

[clskinsfan]

7 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said:

 

Okay, I will play with your strawman. 

 

In Charlottesville, those NeoNazi protesters were carrying lethal weapons. I don't have a problem with them protesting. I have a big problem with them carrying lethal weapons. And that extends to that murderer who ran over numerous people inflicting serious injuries and killed a woman.

 

We have seen hundreds of thousands if not millions protesting at the Women's March in 2017, and hundreds of thousands if not millions marching yesterday. No lethal weapons, no murders.

 

So, protesters should only be granted permits to those who make sure that their participants don't carry lethal weapons, and if they do they are subject to huge fines.

 

Agreed on all counts. The right to PEACEFUL gathering should not be infringed no matter how disgusting the message of that gathering is. Once violence is threatened or takes place it is time to end it and arrest those involved. 

[Kosher Ham]

I have no problem with anyone carrying a weapon... if they go through proper training and a complete criminal and mental background check. 

 

Just because they didn't display weapons or use them, does not mean they didn't have them. A knife is a potential lethal weapon... many people won't leave home without a knife, especially in the south. 

[clskinsfan]

1 minute ago, Kosher Ham said:

I have no problem with anyone carrying a weapon... if they go through proper training and a complete criminal and mental background check. 

 

Just because they didn't display weapons or use them, does not mean they didn't have them. A knife is a potential lethal weapon... many people won't leave home without a knife, especially in the south. 

 

I carry a  knife every day It has nothing to do with protection and everything to do with it being a tool that I use constantly. If my life is on the line the last thing I want is a pocket knife

[Kosher Ham]

Thus the word "potential". 

 

 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

58 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

So what if people think Antifa gathering is based on a campaign of lies, fear and hate? Should their CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to gather be taken away?

Nobody wants to take away all your guns. They want to address the serious problem that we have in our country the same way we would address any other serious problem in our country. And if you can look at the bull**** that the NRA is putting out there and not recognize that it really is all a bunch of demagoguery, then that's on you. Unfortunately, a lot of the people who have this bizarre compulsion with guns are easily misled and motivated by the worst human instincts. The NRA knows it and they have been very successful making money for their employers with their bull****. Here are some of actual messages coming that piece of ****, evil organization...

 

Obama's coming to take your guns!

Half of your countrymen hate your freedom!

The teachers are a liberal tool hellbent on corrupting the minds of our youth!

We need to arm the teachers because they love the kids!

 

Wait, let me read that again... What the hell? I may not be the smartest person in the world but I'm not a moron. Everything they put out there is ****ing stupid and only an idiot would believe that garbage.

[clskinsfan]

2 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Nobody wants to take away all your guns. They want to address the serious problem that we have in our country the same way we would address any other serious problem in our country. And if you can look at the bull**** that the NRA is putting out there and not recognize that it really is all a bunch of demagoguery, then that's on you. Unfortunately, a lot of the people who have this bizarre compulsion with guns are easily misled and motivated by the worst human instincts. The NRA knows it and they have been very successful making money for their employers with their bull****. Here are some of actual messages coming that piece of ****, evil organization...

 

Obama's coming to take your guns!

Half of your countrymen hate your freedom!

The teachers are a liberal tool hellbent on corrupting the minds of our youth!

We need to arm the teachers because they love the kids!

 

Wait, let me read that again... What the hell? I may not be the smartest person in the world but I'm not a moron. Everything they put out there is ****ing stupid and only an idiot would believe that garbage.

 

While I agree with the majority of your post. The bolded part simply isnt true. I could pull THOUSANDS of articles from newspapers all over the country calling for EXACTLY this.

[Bozo the kKklown]

 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

18 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

While I agree with the majority of your post. The bolded part simply isnt true. I could pull THOUSANDS of articles from newspapers all over the country calling for EXACTLY this.

I'd like to see a few.

 

and **** Rick Santorum

Edited March 25, 2018 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[tshile]

25 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

 

Nobody wants to take away all your guns.

 

 

Meh, not true. There are plenty that do. We just need to make it clear not everyone pushing for increased gun control has the end goal of taking away as many as possible, including all if allowed.  Shouldn’t ignore that there are those that do. 

Edited March 25, 2018 by tshile

[Going Commando]

I am hoping that all of this youthful energy translates into voter registration and turnout so that the GoP can get the total electoral butt****ing it so richly deserves.

[tshile]

Just now, stevemcqueen1 said:

I am hoping that all of this youthful energy translates into voter registration and turnout so that the GoP can get the total electoral butt****ing it so richly deserves.

 

Six months is a long time to keep it going. We’ll see. Would be a welcome change to have gun control be a primary issue in national elections. 

[Bozo the kKklown]

Opinion | LeVar Burton: The Parkland kids know we sold our souls to special interests

 

I believe that it is possible that, in the annals of time — should our republic survive this period in history — America will be revealed to be the hollow, shallow shell of what the experiment was meant to be. The kids from Parkland, Florida are proving that it was and should always be the government of the people, by the people, for the people, and not the people with the most money.

 

But I think that America stopped being that place when we refused to acknowledge that this country was built on the backs of slave labor, and we decided that there would be no accountability for that. We stopped living up to that ideal when we began to delude ourselves that this nation had a manifest destiny to lead the world, but there would be no repercussions for slavery. That lie we told ourselves — that no accountability was and no repercussions were necessary — was the beginning of the downward slide to where we are now.

 

Just take the original gun control movement: It was white people trying to keep firearms out of the hands of people of color who has once been enslaved. The issues of guns, and the militia, the incarceration of black people and even whose deaths have prompted a response in the current opioid crisis, all of these issues have the same root cause: America's insistence that whiteness was law.

 

But the sooner we acknowledge our imperfections as a nation, the more chance we have of surviving this turbulent period in our history.

 

Look at David Hogg, one of the Parkland kids: He's acknowledged that there are racial disparities in how these shootings are covered, and said that he and his fellow students need to use their white privilege to bring attention to the people of color who have been subjected to similar violence who have been ignored. This kid gets it; he understands America.

 

People of color in this country, in this culture, tend to not matter as much as those who are white; that is the truth of America. In the Black Lives Matter movement, young black people have been shouting from the rooftops until their voices are raw and hoarse, and America hasn't listened. But now that it's white kids who are shouting at the tops of their lungs, people pay attention.

 

We're in deep trouble in this country, and the Parkland kids know it. When we're willing to sacrifice our children on the altar of guns and a special interest lobby, we've sold our souls, and that's the truth. We have sold our souls, and these kids aren't having it.

 

(rest of the article is in the link)

Edited March 25, 2018 by BenningRoadSkin

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

43 minutes ago, tshile said:

Meh, not true. There are plenty that do. We just need to make it clear not everyone pushing for increased gun control has the end goal of taking away as many as possible, including all if allowed.  Shouldn’t ignore that there are those that do. 

Of course, any time somebody (in this case, me) uses words like "Nobody", or "Always", or "Everywhere" it's not literally true. Certainly there are some extremists who want to take away all the guns. That there is some threat of that actually happening simply isn't reality. Obama was president for 8 years. For 8 years, the NRA spread the bull**** about how he was going to come for everyone's guns. During those 8 years, he proposed a number of pieces of legislation that involved taking guns away from people. That number was zero. More guns were sold during those 8 years than at any other time in our country's history.

Edited March 25, 2018 by Sacks 'n' Stuff