Can someone explain to me why people say the problems started when Synder bought the team?

[Mania]

If the team wasn't being sold in 1998 and had remained in Cook Jr's hands for a while; Holmgrem would've been hired after the 1998 season.

No, the problems didn't start with Dan but Dan Snyder had made it worse and has kept it going.

I never heard this. Is this true?

[jpage520]

I never heard this. Is this true?

 

Agreed. Are you sure about that? Holmgren was coming off a SB appearance that year.

 

 

 

**Correction** My mistake, I was thinking 97-98 when the Packers played the Broncos. 98 was the "Dirty Bird" year

[Alexa]

I'm a younger fan (hence my username), so I don't remember anything before 04 or so. But I hear a lot of people on here saying the organization went downhill towards a losing way when Synder bought the team. But from looking at the past records, we were bad pretty much from when Gibbs left in 93 on with a record of 54-73-1. So if the Cooke family retained the team, how would things have been different?

The team was old and had to be rebuilt after the 92 season. I believe that free agency started in 93 and Casserly totally blew it bringing in Al Noga, Tim McGee, Carl Banks and so on. The prior year in 92 Gibbs whiffed on Desmond Howard. Then they missed badly on Heath Shuler and we also had a few sub par drafts. 96 and 97 we got close but couldn't get over the hump because of a bad defense.  Anyone remember when Boomer threw for over 500 yards? I was at that game.  However in 99 we finally turned the corner and got Brad Johnson. That 99 playoff team was all Casserly even though Snyder took over that summer. I believe that if Casserly and John Kent Cooke been able to stay on then the momentum would have kept going. All hell broke loose with Snyder the following year in 2000. But Snyder got it right by hiring Marty in 2001 but Marty pissed everyone off, kept Dan at a distance and got fired. But it wouldn't have mattered who came in here  from 93-95, the team was old and out of players. 93 and 94 were brutal years. Real bad football teams.  But had Cooke been able to keep the team after 98, we never would have saw that free agent nonsense in 2000, or Old Ball Coach, Jim Zorn, the constant giving away of draft picks and countless stupid free agent signings.

 

I was at that last game at RFK in 96. That game should have meant something but it was a pointless game. Cowboys didn't play anyone and our playoff chances were out the door,  but it was still fun. Good memories......

If the team wasn't being sold in 1998 and had remained in Cook Jr's hands for a while; Holmgrem would've been hired after the 1998 season.

 

No, the problems didn't start with Dan but Dan Snyder had made it worse and has kept it going.

I think Norv would have stayed on. Cooke Jr really seemed to be in love with Norv.

[88Comrade2000]

I never heard this. Is this true?

 

Some of the media reports then were the Skins were going to fire Norv and go after Mike.  The fluid ownership situation prevented us from doing anything. Cooke kept Norv and Mike went to Seattle.  Remember, that year we started 0-7 before finishing 6-10.

[Saqs]

Gibbs leaving the first time is when the problems started.

[Brokenstriker]

Dan Snyder ran his new organization like he was playing in a Billionaire's Fantasy Football League and he acquired players based on his personal knowledge of player evaluation (i.e., no knowledge ... never played at any level ... arm chair QB would be an overstatement) ... basically if it was old and over the hill ... if it was very very very expensive ... if it was last season's super cool thing ... he bought it

 

Then he hired Vinnie The Spawn of Satan Cerrato to come in and kiss is ass, and he destroyed a once proud organization's player pool ... EXACTLY LIKE HE DID to the 49'ers ...

 

He fired the best coach we had, Shottenheimer, because he refused to kiss his ass.

 

There hasn't been a quality GM associated with the Redskins under Snyder until ... hopefully ... his recent hiring of McCloughan.

 

He killed the Salary pool on has-beens and never-was players ... he overpaid for everything ... he gave away draft picks and created a mediocre talent pool of over age, injury prone, baggage laiden players WITH NO FUTURE

 

... and that's how were arrived where we are now

[ThomasRoane]

The problems started when the Salary Cap era started.  We have NEVER been a competitave organization under this structure. 

 

Other teams managed to deal with it much better.  The biggest failing of Dan Snyder was that he really believed that an NFL team could be built like a fantasy football team.  Having never really played the game he lacked the insight to recognize that great teams are built not bought. 

[NoCalMike]

The Redskins were bad for awhile after Gibbs retired, but when Snyder bought the team they were a playoff team. It was his decision-making that not only sunk the ship, but set it up for failure for years to come.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Gibbs leaving the first time is when the problems started.

 

No, Gibbs was wise to get out before the NFL was turned on its ear with expanded free agency and the salary cap. Gibbs coached during a time when he and the Redskins could benefit from their financial advantage over most teams. He probably understood that we would need to re-invent ourselves to find a new way to leverage that financial advantage (instead of on the field with an expensive roster, we would need to be creative and innovative). 

 

Sure, we missed Joe's coaching, but this team was going to drop off a cliff in the "new" NFL no matter what unless it would have prepared and planned for the changing landscape. 

[Alexa]

Dan Snyder ran his new organization like he was playing in a Billionaire's Fantasy Football League and he acquired players based on his personal knowledge of player evaluation (i.e., no knowledge ... never played at any level ... arm chair QB would be an overstatement) ... basically if it was old and over the hill ... if it was very very very expensive ... if it was last season's super cool thing ... he bought it

 

Then he hired Vinnie The Spawn of Satan Cerrato to come in and kiss is ass, and he destroyed a once proud organization's player pool ... EXACTLY LIKE HE DID to the 49'ers ...

 

He fired the best coach we had, Shottenheimer, because he refused to kiss his ass.

 

There hasn't been a quality GM associated with the Redskins under Snyder until ... hopefully ... his recent hiring of McCloughan.

 

He killed the Salary pool on has-beens and never-was players ... he overpaid for everything ... he gave away draft picks and created a mediocre talent pool of over age, injury prone, baggage laiden players WITH NO FUTURE

 

... and that's how were arrived where we are now

Cerrato was hired by Milstein I believe. Cooke would not let Cerrato inside of Redskin Park so he had to work in a hotel room for a while. When Milstein's bid was rejected Snyder got his group together and kept Cerrato on.

Can anyone imagine IF Milstein was able to buy the team? We'd probably be in worse shape.

[Brokenstriker]

Cerrato was hired by Milstein I believe. Cooke would not let Cerrato inside of Redskin Park so he had to work in a hotel room for a while. When Milstein's bid was rejected Snyder got his group together and kept Cerrato on.

Can anyone imagine IF Milstein was able to buy the team? We'd probably be in worse shape.

I may have mixed up the timeline ... but Snyder kept Cerrito in place while Vinnie systematically killed the Redskins' quality and their future with his roster "building" approach

 

hmmm ... maybe Milstein would make Snyder awkward early years look good ... wait is that even possible?

[mel25]

I'm a younger fan (hence my username), so I don't remember anything before 04 or so. But I hear a lot of people on here saying the organization went downhill towards a losing way when Synder bought the team. But from looking at the past records, we were bad pretty much from when Gibbs left in 93 on with a record of 54-73-1. So if the Cooke family retained the team, how would things have been different?

 

You're right as far as wins and losses. The thing about the Snyder era is that we lose and look ridiculous doing so. There have literally been times where I've thought "can we JUST lose without all this other BS." I think one of the guys on 980 used the term "fail gracefully." Take the Jaguars and the Bucs, they are simply losing games. Maybe I don't hear about there drama because I don't live in those markets, but they seem to be quietly losing games. Us on the other hand, we had a 3 way QB controversy, our high profile QB got called out by the head coach, name change issues, and a few other things go on this year.

 

We do things like sign several high profile free agents and STILL have losing seasons.

 

We do things like have our starting defensive end get hurt, go out and spend a second rounder on Jason Taylor. Then Jason Taylor, who I believe had never missed a game in his long career, gets some injury that most people have never heard of.

 

Or we do things like have offensive troubles, and bring in a highly respected offensive mind to help out. And during his press conference, he tells the media that he was calling a bingo game when he got the phone call from the redskins, and is then known as "the bingo caller" after that.

 

Not all of that is Dan Snyder's fault, but those types of things have been happening since he bought the team. We're like those Ben Stiller movies, where we make a mistake, cause more trouble trying to hide/fix the mistake. Each fix gets exponentially worse, and what started out as trying to smoke a cigarette ends up losing the cat and burning down the gazebo right before the wedding.

 

[Bantu]

Who's Synder? :-)

[Leonard Washington]

Every move Snyder authorized/orchestrated, even if boneheaded, was an attempt to win more games.  I think eventually he will figure it out and start winning regularly. 

[nightbird]

A. Because Jack Kent Cooke was beloved, and had a PROVEN track record of actually wanting to win, instead of just saying he wanted to win.  Unlike Snyder, he was an interesting person with a fulfilling life outside of football, so he didn't feel the need to play fantasy GM.  He just cut checks to the best people he could find, and told them their only job was to win.

 

B. We had the bad luck to be the first team to discover that Norv Turner was not a head coach.  Remember, he was the hot young coordinator of the early 90s.  Lots of teams wanted to give him the top job.  Timing worked out that it was us.  And  he failed.  We actually did a good job rebuilding under him (the 1993 playoff team was really old) and got respectable, but we were always just . . . mediocre.  Never quite got over the hump into a reliable playoff team -- always hanging around 8-8.

 

C.  Casserly whiffed -- badly -- on some draft picks like Shuler, Westbrook, Tom Carter and Andre Johnson.  But he just whiffed -- it's not because the owner was pulling the strings.

 

D.  By the time Snyder bought the team, we had righted the ship!  We got a king's ransom thanks to Mike Ditka and his insane Ricky Williams trade.  Also made out like bandits letting Sean Gilbert walk to Carolina on a franchise tag.  Stocked our team with good young players in those late 90s drafts, many mid and late round picks -- Champ Bailey, Kenard Lang, Albert Connell, Stephen Davis, Shawn Barber, Jon Jansen.  Made a reasonable trade to get Brad Johnson in his prime as our QB, and we were ready to go.  We did have one big free agent disaster -- Dana Stubblefield -- but it didn't cripple the franchise like so many recent ones (Haynesworth) have.   In 99, the year Snyder bought the team, we won the division with a team built by Charley Casserly.

 

E.  But really, the one answer that really matters is simple: under Snyder, we are a laughingstock.  A punchline.  Opposing fans feel sorry for us.  When we go to "our" stadium, we are surrounded by fans in other colors while we drink stale World Cup beer and munch on peanuts from bankrupt airlines.  Snyder treats us like crap.  The Cookes treated us like guests and friends.  In the 90s, we were a highly respected legacy franchise.  Today, we are a dumpster fire.  There's your answer.

[mel25]

Every move Snyder authorized/orchestrated, even if boneheaded, was an attempt to win more games.  I think eventually he will figure it out and start winning regularly. 

 

Now I do agree with that. I've never been part of the "he only cares about money and not about winning" crowd. I think he's a fan just like us. Even if he did care more about money, it would be in his best interest to win games. If we spend this much when the team is losing, imagine how much we will spend when they start winning.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

When I have brought up this point in the past I was basically told that "Snyder sucks" was the important point being made and that factual accuracy is merely quibbling.

[nightbird]

Every move Snyder authorized/orchestrated, even if boneheaded, was an attempt to win more games.  

 

Was he trying to win more games when he drafted a track star QB and sent him out to play on a crappy, torn up field?

 

Was he trying to win more games when he refused to build a basic practice bubble (something college programs have) until Shanny begged him over and over again?

 

Was he trying to win more games when he nickel-and-dimed our scouting staff?

 

Was he trying to win more games when he let Steve Spurrier destroy decades of Redskins tradition by handing out unofficially-retired jersey numbers to some of the biggest scrubs who ever wore the B & B? (Joe Theismann's #7 went to who?  Danny Wuerful?  And we gave Bobby Mitchell's number -- BOBBY MITCHELL -- to some slappy who was out of the league a year later.  That finally convinced Bobby Mitchell to resign from the front office).

 

Was he trying to win more games when he sued the hell out of season ticket holders, or re-gifted flat World Cup beer?

 

Was he trying to win more games when he promoted his raquet ball buddy (who has not and will not be hired by any other NFL franchise -- ever) to more and more responsibility even as more and more losses piled up?

 

Was he trying to win more games when he let his "Friend" Clinton Portis roll over our head coach?

 

Was he trying to win more games when he drafted Laron Landry -- instead of Adrian Peterson -- so his "Friend" Clilnton Portis wouldn't worry about being top dog in the offense?

 

Was he trying to win more games when he publicly humiliated coaches?

 

Was he trying to win more games when he beclowned himself by sending his goons to try and intimidate the Steelers radio crew?

 

Was he trying to win more games when he fired Marty after an 8-3 finish, simply because Marty wouldn't let him play with his toy?

 

Just stop, folks.  He's not running a football club.  He's running a marketing company that happens to have a really crappy football team.

[GoldSkinner]

The team was bad from 92-98 but the organization itself was structurally sound and well-respected. Washington needed proper leadership to navigate the troubled waters of those years, and it was only after the new captain was hired did the crew members realize they were being led by Ahab.

[Alexa]

Not sure if anyone knows this or not but Marty had a guy named John Schneider as Director of Player Personnel. He's currently the GM of the Seahawks. He left once Marty got fired.

[50yrSKINSfan]

Was he trying to win more games when he drafted a track star QB and sent him out to play on a crappy, torn up field?

 

Was he trying to win more games when he refused to build a basic practice bubble (something college programs have) until Shanny begged him over and over again?

 

Was he trying to win more games when he nickel-and-dimed our scouting staff?

 

Was he trying to win more games when he let Steve Spurrier destroy decades of Redskins tradition by handing out unofficially-retired jersey numbers to some of the biggest scrubs who ever wore the B & B? (Joe Theismann's #7 went to who?  Danny Wuerful?  And we gave Bobby Mitchell's number -- BOBBY MITCHELL -- to some slappy who was out of the league a year later.  That finally convinced Bobby Mitchell to resign from the front office).

 

Was he trying to win more games when he sued the hell out of season ticket holders, or re-gifted flat World Cup beer?

 

Was he trying to win more games when he promoted his raquet ball buddy (who has not and will not be hired by any other NFL franchise -- ever) to more and more responsibility even as more and more losses piled up?

 

Was he trying to win more games when he let his "Friend" Clinton Portis roll over our head coach?

 

Was he trying to win more games when he drafted Laron Landry -- instead of Adrian Peterson -- so his "Friend" Clilnton Portis wouldn't worry about being top dog in the offense?

 

Was he trying to win more games when he publicly humiliated coaches?

 

Was he trying to win more games when he beclowned himself by sending his goons to try and intimidate the Steelers radio crew?

 

Was he trying to win more games when he fired Marty after an 8-3 finish, simply because Marty wouldn't let him play with his toy?

 

Just stop, folks.  He's not running a football club.  He's running a marketing company that happens to have a really crappy football team.

I have to agree as it is the only way I think a guy can go to the stadium year after year and watch his team pounded. He cars about the bottom line first. How can you give away all those draft choices for one unproven guy? Simple, its a marketing ploy.

[MoeRedskins]

What would be different if the Cooke's owned the team is that we'd of never had these off-season highs and regular season lows and I think that is the #1 complaint of fans.  I don't know if it's just me, but expectantions of this team were realistic before Snyder owned the team. The fans seemed to have an understanding of what this team really was.  Now it's just highs and lows.  Big moves and big promises only to be deflated game after game until a new promise comes up.  Fans now are kind of obxinous with their off-season glory gushing and then their regalur season suicide watch. 

[Bishop Hammer]

No, Gibbs was wise to get out before the NFL was turned on its ear with expanded free agency and the salary cap. Gibbs coached during a time when he and the Redskins could benefit from their financial advantage over most teams. He probably understood that we would need to re-invent ourselves to find a new way to leverage that financial advantage (instead of on the field with an expensive roster, we would need to be creative and innovative).

Sure, we missed Joe's coaching, but this team was going to drop off a cliff in the "new" NFL no matter what unless it would have prepared and planned for the changing landscape.

Gibbs did pretty well in the salary cap era his second go round. Two playoff berths in four years is top notch in my book.

[hail2skins]

Gibbs did pretty well in the salary cap era his second go round. Two playoff berths in four years is top notch in my book.

It says a lot about the current level of expectations when Gibbs 2......admittedly the best Skins coaching epoch since he left the first time but still resulted in an overall losing record.......is regarded as "top notch."

[Riggo-toni]

And had Casserly still been calling the shots all of the above mentioned "head scratching" personnel decisions probably don't happen.

Let's not kid ourselves.  Casserly was an AWFUL AWFUL GM!  Plus, he was AWFUL.

Stubblefield, Sean Gilbert, trading for Big Daddy.  Other big money FA flops like Leonard Marshall, and a solid decade of 1st round busts.  Casserly was a decent scout when it came to finding a few hidden gems (Brian Mitchell, Joe Jacoby, Chip Lohmiller), but he whiffed on more 1st rounders (ALL of them until Bailey) than any other GM.  And he left us with the WORST OL in football...a feat which he repeated later with the Texans.

Just because Vinny and Bruce suck donkey balls, let's not glamorize preceding mega-failures with selective memory.