Jim Haslett : Time For Him To Show Something ?

[RG3Hunna]

 

 

@DG: I can't believe you're actually defending Haslett.

 

I don't think he's defending Haslett, he's just trying to put in perspective that our roster lacks talent compared to other rosters. It's like me telling Dale Earnhardt Jr to go win the daytona 500 but I give him a Toyota Camry to accomplish it.

 

I know it's tooooo early but so far from what we're hearing, gruden allows his coaching staff to coach and the whole roster/staff looks energized. Lets see what Haslett can do this season while Shanny the "Tyrant" is gone.

[Mahons21]

Mitchell, how can you blame Haslett for blitzes that don't get to the QB?  Do you believe it's his fault that no one in the front 7 was able to win their 1v1 matchup?  That sounds like a talent issue to me.  And you blame him for gaping holes across the middle?   Do you honestly believe there are plays in a NFL defensive playbook that allow for gaping holes across the middle?  If it's zone LBs most likely did not drop to the proper depth, or got sucked up in PA.  If it was a man coverage play it probably has to do with zero pass rush from the front 4, forcing our players in coverage to cover for an inhuman amount of time.

 

As far as the depth the corners play with, Haslett was told to run a specific scheme, a scheme that was predicated on cover-3.  In a cover-3 defense a CB is responsible for the deep 1/3 of his side of the field, and the FS is responsible for the middle 1/3.  If you were to press up corners with the Redskins free safety play in that scheme last year, the Skins would have been getting beat like a drum on the deep routes.  However, as I've mentioned earlier in this thread, with solid play from the front 4 and a safety with range, you can press up your corners in a cover-3.  Seattle showed us that was possible this year.  With that being said, the Redskins front 4 could rarely make it to the QB if ever, and our FS position was played by BM a SS forced to play out of position, EJ Biggers a cornerback no one wanted, and Bacarri Rambo who doesn't belong on an NFL roster, despite the fact some of the more vocal donks on this website wanted to draft him in the 2nd round.

 

In my opinion, your complaints are misguided.

[Morneblade]

M21; I'll continue to use what the NFL uses, not what a single site uses. Points determine wins and losses, I don't think even you would argue that. As for his schemes, I find them vanilla, and when he does do something different he is predictable with it (in terms of down and distance) and usually tips his hand pre snap. Blitzes fail become the opposing team know where and when they are coming from, not just from guys losing one on one battles. In fact a good blitz creates a mismatch in which for at least one player, the only one on one battle is with the QB. And playing press coverage is better than playing off 10 yards from the LOS. The ball has to come out quick, and if you're 10 yards deep, guess what? Hot read is open. Playing press, you either have to hold the ball, or HOPE your guy can beat the DB right off the snap. Otherwise it's incomplete or an INT. You seem to think it's all the players fault. I think we need upgrades, the biggest upgrade we need is a new DC. Jim has been terrible for well over a decade, and there was a reason he was out of the league.

 

DC: Then stop defending him as if you think he isn't the problem? Then people might not think you're defending him? Could happen.

[skins island connection]

Lol, blamess Mike Shanahan.

Here's what you've said above: Mike Shanahan only meddled because the defense wasn't holding its own. But guess what? The defense WITH his still wasn't getting it done.

 IMO, means 'in my opinion', which means to me its the only logical explanation of why he did it. And I agree, even then the defense wasn't getting it done. Mike wasn't known for defenses, nor his choices in DCs. Regardless, the defense is bad, so accountability and blame has to be placed.

 

And that is all we know. Mike or Haslett it doesn't matter; we don't know who did what to who so to speak.

We don't know who made what call or choose the gameplan.

 

The only thing we know is that last year's defense wasn't good enough.

We know the DL couldn't pass rush.

We Fletch's play declined.

We know the SS/FS couldn't tackle.

We know the special teams was historically bad and crippling in terms of field position.

We know the offense turned the ball over and couldn't sustain offense early in games.

 

Most of the above are personnel issues not scheme or coaching issues.

Actually, all but 1 is a result, directly or indirectly with coaching.

If players can't tackle, its a fundamental  technique issue that coaches should address.

Defense wasn't good enough. Yes Yes and Yes. I agree, and it is a result of coaching.

DL cannot develop a pass rush. Yes, a technique issue, but also can be altered in the overall gameplan; if a DC sees the pass rush isn't getting it done, he should adjust the defense to the results. The old fashioned, if you are fighting a man who is big, he has strength but you have agility. That type of adjusting a scheme; you have to, otherwise you just throw your hands up in the air and give up.

SS and FS not tackling, once again that falls on coaching and technique.

 

Its not that difficult to figure out. Not trying to argue this, but exactly what is Haslett supposed to be held accountable for? If we don't have all-star players at every position then its the player's fault and Haslett gets a free pass? I don't think so.

If he was worth a **** to begin with he'd still be in Pitt or N.O. or STL.

If a team doesn't have quality players what else is there to say?

That is a far as anything needs to go.

 

Personnel.

At its core the NFL is about personnel.

That is why the draft is a big deal.

That is why the FA is a big deal.

 

That is why signing Jason Hatcher was huge.

That is why they signed 3 special teams beasts in FA.

That is why we drafted Trent Murphy.

Yes, but not totally; someone still has to coach/teach the players, and this is where Haslett fails, for whatever reason his playcalling/schemes are not getting the job done. The evidence is there.

If it were the case of getting top notch players, then you or me or any other ESer could be DC, but its more to it than that.

[Mahons21]

I don't argue that points determine wins and losses, I argue that they are a team metric not a defensive metric.  You cannot remove the impact offense and special teams have on PPG, plain and simple. 

 

"His schemes are vanilla" is the vaguest argument that's out there.  Seattle ran cover-3 as much as the Redskins if not more last year, yet because they have talent no one considers it "vanilla".

 

Tips his hand pre-snap?  Do you think Haslett instructs the defense to show the blitz every time the QB gives a hard count?  That is not by design.  And he did try to disguise blitzes last year, but when you disguise a blitz you leave coverage players out of position pre-snap, and the Redskins didn't have the speed to cover when they had good starting position pre-snap.  How do you think they faired when they were out of position?

 

Creates a mismatch and the 1 on 1 is with the QB?  that doesn't even make sense.  A mismatch would be an OLB v a RB a free rusher would be 1 v1 with the QB.  If you're only 1 on 1 is with the QB, and Haslett did create that, the offense got the ball out quickly and our coverage players were often times unable to make the tackle.  And no, you should not press in that situation, because the offense would go to max pro (because as you mentioned our defense loved to show the blitz aftera hard count, and this eliminates the free rusher), and send people deep.  Maybe you wanted to see what Josh Wilson would have looked like in press coverage essentially 1 v 1 because our safety help was non-existent or out of position, I did not.

 

You're over simplifying press coverage, because you're operating under the assumption that the QB doesn't have all day to throw, as they did v the Redskins front 4 last year.  I've already explained to you why you don't press with a blitz, and won't take the time to do so again.  The problem with pressing last year was the lack of pass rush, our corners (Hall, Amerson) actually did a decent job, the problem was with a 4-man rush QBs had too much time, and corners were forced to trail, which left openings that QBs exploited.

[Mahons21]

"He'd still be in PIT, STL, or NO"

 

In PIT he was not fired, he went on to be a HC.

 

In NO he took over a dumpster fire worse than what Shannahan inherited, don't you remember the Ricky Williams trade that occurred the year before he took the team over?  One of the many horrible personnel decisions Mike Ditka made.

 

STL, his HC was fired, 9 times out of 10, if the HC is fired in the NFL the new HC hires new coordinators.

[RedskinsInFebruary]

Did you guys see the latest DHall interview?

 

http://www.redskins.com/media-gallery/videos/Hall-We-Are-Going-to-Get-After-the-Quarterback/0dd6614b-e631-42a5-ab0f-f790570b26ce

 

Not sure how much of it is Haslett's influence, but DHall acts like his primary focus is developing Amerson.  He talks like a big-time leader, so something's going right in that dept.

[darrelgreenie]

Morneblade-

I'm taking an objective look at last years defense.

I obviously can't control how you view my statements. Ive made my view on Haslett clear. And my points in this discussion have been about personnel not about coaching.

[skins island connection]

"He'd still be in PIT, STL, or NO"

 

In PIT he was not fired, he went on to be a HC.

 

In NO he took over a dumpster fire worse than what Shannahan inherited, don't you remember the Ricky Williams trade that occurred the year before he took the team over?  One of the many horrible personnel decisions Mike Ditka made.

 

STL, his HC was fired, 9 times out of 10, if the HC is fired in the NFL the new HC hires new coordinators.

 

 True, but he wasn't making friends in Pittsburgh either.

 BUT, he wanted to run the show, and Cowher pretty much stated he wasn't leaving Pittsburgh until his daughter got outta school, and Haslett didn't want to wait that long. Lo-and-behold, New Orleans, the team he coached for years before, had a HC opening, and he was friends with the owner, so i'll let you figure that one out. But even then after a few years he got fired in New Orleans, and he had his problems with some players and didn't do himself any favors messing with their best pass rush guy.

 

 Off to St.Louis, where he didn't fair any better and was let go there as well, and he eventually went to Arena League or whatever it was so he could be head coach, which has been his dream all along.  It is a little ironic when the heat was turned up on Mike and Griffin, there wasn't a peep outta Haslett; why? I would bet he was sitting back hoping Snyder or Allen would tap him as the next HC.

 

 Thank god that didn't happen.

[Mahons21]

Sounds like you got it all figured out

[Morneblade]

A lot of people seem to think they have it all figured out.

[skinny21]

The talk of talent got me looking at our drafts again.

Defensive players drafted - Riley, Kerrigan, J. Jenkins, Gomes, Thompson, Nield, K. Robinson, Crawford, Bernstein, Amerson, Thomas, B. Jenkins, Rambo, Murphy, Breeland. Out of 42 players drafted, just 15 were on the defensive side of the ball. Factor in the major injuries (Crawford, Nield, Bernstein, K. Robinson, J. Jenkins, Thomas) and the resultant loss of developmental time, and it's easy to see a talent problem (from a draft standpoint at least). Then there's the cap penalty. Then there's the Shanahan Effect - his choice of defense, meddling, poor defensive history (including drafting), choice of defensive assistants, etc.

Regardless of how you view Haslett, there have been major problems outside of his control. Again, here's hoping the changes around him allow for a big swing in our defense... although I understand a reluctance in believing things can improve with Haslett at DC.

[zoony]

If Snyder was still in control Haslett would be gone. The fact that Haslett is still here should cause everyone to rejoice. Period.

[planter]

Did you guys see the latest DHall interview?

http://www.redskins.com/media-gallery/videos/Hall-We-Are-Going-to-Get-After-the-Quarterback/0dd6614b-e631-42a5-ab0f-f790570b26ce

Not sure how much of it is Haslett's influence, but DHall acts like his primary focus is developing Amerson. He talks like a big-time leader, so something's going right in that dept.

Good stuff.

Amerson showed flashes as a rookie. If he plays more consistently and fills that corner slot it would be big for the Skins.

[skinny21]

Good stuff.

Amerson showed flashes as a rookie. If he plays more consistently and fills that corner slot it would be big for the Skins.

Amerson and Robinson performing (consistently) well would be a big help... and an overdue "lucky break" on D.

Hatcher and Clark though are the key in my mind though. If they play well then I think they'll improve the whole defense around them.

[Morneblade]

The talk of talent got me looking at our drafts again.

Defensive players drafted - Riley, Kerrigan, J. Jenkins, Gomes, Thompson, Nield, K. Robinson, Crawford, Bernstein, Amerson, Thomas, B. Jenkins, Rambo, Murphy, Breeland. Out of 42 players drafted, just 15 were on the defensive side of the ball. Factor in the major injuries (Crawford, Nield, Bernstein, K. Robinson, J. Jenkins, Thomas) and the resultant loss of developmental time, and it's easy to see a talent problem (from a draft standpoint at least). Then there's the cap penalty. Then there's the Shanahan Effect - his choice of defense, meddling, poor defensive history (including drafting), choice of defensive assistants, etc.

Regardless of how you view Haslett, there have been major problems outside of his control. Again, here's hoping the changes around him allow for a big swing in our defense... although I understand a reluctance in believing things can improve with Haslett at DC.

I don't think there is any real question that the Defense under Shanahan was not addressed as well as it should have been. That was also apparently what got him fired from Denver. We look to have upgraded talent on the defense, but I'm not sure how much of an upgrade we have there, there are a lot of unknowns so far, and while we have had a couple upgrades in position coaching, we still are stuck with a very bad DC. Overall I think we're going to still be very bad on defense, but I would love to be wrong.

[skinny21]

I understand this view. It's been said many times (many ways), but I think the D has been upgraded at the three spots we needed most - DE, S and MLB. The last spot we needed help was slot corner (Wilson did not play well there in my mind). A combination of Porter/Crawford/Breeland should be an upgrade as well.

I expect a good pass rush (maybe even very good, particularly if Bowen returns to form and/or Baker steps up) and decent play from the MLBs and secondary. Add to that improved depth at OLB, ILB, corner and both safety spots and I see the makings of a pretty good D.

If Haslett hamstrings the D with playcalling I see below average in the forecast (20th-25th or thereabouts). If Haslett shows some sort of competence, then I see average to above average (mid to low teens). Lord, that would be a welcome change of pace...

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

If Snyder was still in control Haslett would be gone. The fact that Haslett is still here should cause everyone to rejoice. Period.

This is like smashing your foot with a hammer to take your mind off of a splitting headache.

[zoony]

This is like smashing your foot with a hammer to take your mind off of a splitting headache.

Or, there might be personnel and football executives studying schemes and player tape and coming to conclusions about Hasletts fate. Rather than a fanboy owner who gets his opinion from the same place fans do.

I'm not sure Haslett will be successful but I am pleased with the process to retain him

And for the record, coaching is so vastly over rated on this board it's not even funny. The best defenses in the nfl today and of the past 20 years were always the most vanilla. Players win at this level, not coaches. You guys are a bunch of sniffling whining girls

.

[Mahons21]

Zoony raises a good point about vanilla schemes having the most success.  Last year their was Seattle who as I've mentioned ran as much if not more cover-3 than the Redskins, but simply had better personnel in place.

 

The cover-2 teams that were so popular during the 2000's, essentially ran 4-5 variations of one play, and were able to achieve high levels of success.  

 

There's about two maybe three DCs in this league who could actually make a big difference on a team.  In my opinion those DCs are LeBeau (who's heading to the HOF), Rex Ryan, and an argument could be made for Dom Capers, though if you judged him purely on team metric rankings(PPG) he doesn't fare that well either.

 

Everyone seems to think Wade Phillips would have made a huge difference.  Despite that his defense only allowed about three points less per game last year than the Redskins.  With far more talented players on defense, a special teams unit that was not historically bad, and an offense that turned the ball over less than the Redskins.  

[planter]

Amerson and Robinson performing (consistently) well would be a big help... and an overdue "lucky break" on D.

Hatcher and Clark though are the key in my mind though. If they play well then I think they'll improve the whole defense around them.

Damn no debate here;-)

Agree with everything. Here's to preseason optimism.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

You guys are a bunch of sniffling whining girls

.

I'm not a Haslett fan.  If that makes me a sniffling, whining girl I'll go grab my tissues.

[planter]

Zoony raises a good point about vanilla schemes having the most success. Last year their was Seattle who as I've mentioned ran as much if not more cover-3 than the Redskins, but simply had better personnel in place.

...

There's about two maybe three DCs in this league who could actually make a big difference on a team. In my opinion those DCs are LeBeau (who's heading to the HOF), Rex Ryan, and an argument could be made for Dom Capers,...

Well said but I had add my second fav team's DC@heart Belichick who is technically a HC.

[Mahons21]

Whole heartedly agree.

[Voice_of_Reason]

And for the record, coaching is so vastly over rated on this board it's not even funny. The best defenses in the nfl today and of the past 20 years were always the most vanilla. Players win at this level, not coaches. You guys are a bunch of sniffling whining girls

.

  

That's true to an extent. However all of those defenses were fundamentally sound and well coached, and well prepared. Just because the scheme isn't complex doesn't mean that coaching isn't important. The preparation and technique, and ability to play the scheme effectively is important, and that's primarily on the coaches and coordinators.

Also, it's not always the case. Buddy Ryan used to give his players quizzes to make sure they knew what the defensive calls were. The Ravens defenses, when they were under Marvin Lewis, were not necessarily the most elaborate schemes, but they definitely changed things up.

I think it sortof works both ways. You've absolutely got to have talent, without any questions. And the 'Skins have lacked talent on the defense for a while. It started to trend downward (overall) in 2008, and just kept getting worse.

But you've got to have a solid scheme, and good coaches to implement the scheme as well.

I'm not a Haslett hater. I would have preferred somebody else, but I'm happy to give him a shot with some better personnel and better supporting coaches, and see what happens.

Everyone seems to think Wade Phillips would have made a huge difference.  Despite that his defense only allowed about three points less per game last year than the Redskins.  With far more talented players on defense, a special teams unit that was not historically bad, and an offense that turned the ball over less than the Redskins.

Yeah, but generally, Wade Phillips has coordinated some pretty good defenses through the years. Last year might have been a bit of an aberration. I would liked to have seen him here. And he does have the best twitter handle of all sports-types. @sonofbum