Art Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Joe Gibbs is a Hall of Fame coach. He's been to four Super Bowls. He's won three of them. He retired. And as is often the case, the things we loved then, we grow to love and recall even MORE fondly as the years wear on. We begin to assign a level of perfection that is unattainable and yet, that's the expectation, so, we are disappointed that it's not attainable. Did you know when Joe Gibbs coached before that his football teams had many games with 10 penalties or more? Did you know when Joe Gibbs coached before his running backs fumbled at key moments every so often? Did you know when Joe Gibbs coached before his teams had games with seven turnovers? With six? With five? With four? With three? Did you know the receivers dropped passes every so often? Did you know the offensive line surrendered sacks? Did you know the running back didn't have 100 yards every game? Did you know the quarterbacks threw lots of incompletions? Did you know we lost games, many times, because we beat ourselves? Did you know we don't run a shot gun today because Gibbs couldn't figure out how to get his center to snap the ball back to the quarterback when he tried it before? Did you know we didn't score every play we ever had from the one-yard line when Gibbs was here before? Whether big back or small back even? My did you know questions can go on, but, let me stop a moment and switch gears. All of you, of course, knew all of these things. Why is it that some of you are shocked that these things are still present now? How is it some of you think 380 plus yards of offense is now ineffective? How is it that some of you have missed the essential nature of what Joe Gibbs provides in place of the lofty belief that the actual provision is perfection? I'll give you all the answer. One, unyielding fact that should turn each of you into comforted souls. At least for a spell. Joe Gibbs' football teams are not mistake-free, perfect juggernauts of unstoppable greatness. Joe Gibbs' teams, when good and when bad and when in between, are teams that achieve a HIGH degree of success through the limitation of mental mistakes (not necessarily physical mistakes) and through extremely hard work by the players and the coaches. That's about it. That's what you get. Since Gibbs left, team after typical Redskin team produced the sort of errors consistently that led you to believe the coaches had no way to correct errors and improve the team. The self-inflicted problems were greater than outside forces and that became the measure of Redskin teams under other coaching staffs. That's not the case under Gibbs yet, and it wasn't the case under Gibbs before. Until it becomes the case, we have pretty much exactly what we should have expected and many here knew we'd get. We now have a team that will give the level of effort required to win on a regular basis. Though, did you know that even when Gibbs was here before, his teams had bad days even here. It's simply not a staple of his teams. You don't get perfect teams though. You get teams that have been worked harder than most and therefore work harder in the games than many. Teams that are generally positioned well by the coaches because the coaches spend so much time assuring they know what they are seeing. You get often quite maddening conservatism from Gibbs. You get a coach who will throw things away if they aren't working and attempt to change to things that are with adjustments. Adjustments that to this point have been rather astounding in two of three games, but that's another post . Gibbs won our hearts and attained a level of sainthood and grew in our memories not for many of the reasons some of you seem to think. Right now his offense is still finding itself. What you're seeing is not what you will see in the form of motions and formation changes as the year and years go on. Other than that, this is just about exactly what to have expected from a Joe Gibbs team. What's missing is the development of players together within the system and the knowledge of the best ways to use those players. This comes from time together. Did you know it took time last time Gibbs was here? You should know the same is the case now. Yet, you already see the signs of this team transforming into what it used to be under Gibbs. It's not there yet. That, too, is a process. Last year at this time we were 2-1 heading to 3-1 and there's no way you could have felt as good about the team as you do now at 1-2. Unless, that is, you expected perfection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afparent Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Yes, we know all of this....no one is expecting this team to go 14-2. That is why I am not worried. We will get better if the injury bug doesn't hit us hard. But you have to fear the man. I know each team is bringing their A game against the Skins. He will get it done. Does that mean a Super Bowl every year? No. But he will be successful. We worshipped Lombardi too and he barely finished with a winning record, but that was successful. Joe Gibbs will be successful too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 blasphemer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Nice post. I know I wondered outloud when Gibbs was hired, questioning the patience of fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXREDSKINS44 Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Nice Post Art!!! I not worried, everybody is still learning the system!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor 36 Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 I know everything you say is dead-on correct ART. I believe in Gibbs, I believe he WILL get the job done. Even if he was the PERFECT coach of the game, there is not much he would be able to do when the officiating is so poor and falls against his team 1 - 4 in crucial calls. I realize people will look at the PI calls and say that there is no guarantee that we would have scored or kept them from scoring. However, if the last play had been flagged, as it should have been, we would have been in prime Hall range, and then we're talking a whole new ball game, despite the PI calls (or lack thereof). I think most people are having problems seeing the forest through the trees right now. WE won that game Monday night. With all the drops, miscues, sacks, and horrible calls, we ended up on the wrong side of a three point score. Though WE did have problems, we prevailed. If it was not for a few bogus calls, we would have prevailed on the score board too. That is what we want, isn't it. A team that won't give up like teams have in the past. Let's not be the fans who give up on our team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herrmag Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 And I suppose you're going to tell us he can't walk on water either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 didn't Parcells lose "both" challanges and two TO's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan72901 Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 We will be successful as long as we win Dec. 26th. Ya jnow what I mean??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big z Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 this thing is just getting started..... i got the top down, and the tunes blaring......enjoy the ride while it lasts.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 I would also refer you to this thread where it states previous instances where Gibbs' Redskins started 1-2: 1984 Started 1-2 Finished 11-51985 Started 1-2 Finished 10-6 1989 Started 1-2 Finished 10-6 Relax fellas!!! Gibbs' teams are notorious slow starters and strong finishers. Being his first year, give it some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denverdan Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Originally posted by Art Did you know the receivers dropped passes every so often? Did you know the offensive line surrendered sacks? Did you know the running back didn't have 100 yards every game? Did you know the quarterbacks threw lots of incompletions? Did you know we lost games, many times, because we beat ourselves? Did you know we don't run a shot gun today because Gibbs couldn't figure out how to get his center to snap the ball back to the quarterback when he tried it before? Did you know we didn't score every play we ever had from the one-yard line when Gibbs was here before? Whether big back or small back even? Your talking about that raider superbowl right. Don't forget: Did you know that sometimes, not often, but sometimes, Gibbs would call the wrong play in the wrong situation and his QB would throw and INT and that would be returned for a TD. No team or coach wins in this league without taking chances, making mistakes and learning from the results. We all need to step back and give this team and Gibbs a break, if nothing else they showed heart monday night. Blame it on the ref, blame it on coles, blame it on Gibbs, whatever happened or didn't happen the score wasn't 27-0 in our own stadium. Clicking fully or not, this team is competing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big z Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 whatever happened or didn't happen the score wasn't 27-0 in our own stadium. Clicking fully or not, this team is competing. WORD. :dallasuck :helmet: :point2sky :helmet: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parlett316 Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Great post, bravo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark327 Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Originally posted by denverdan Clicking fully or not, this team is competing. exactly this team is never out of a game as of yet . this is something none of us as fans have seen in some time now . it's refreshing good football the way we were used to seeing . that in it self brings a to my face . patience , it's all gonna start clicking , sooner then we think :point2sky great post Art , :notworthy :dallasuck :eaglesuck :gaintsuck :ravensuck time to kick cleveland around !!! : :brownsuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matador36 Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Not yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Art- You are, of course, dead-on with every point. I am just now coming out of the deepest, darkest hole of Redskin-depression I think I've EVER felt. I see everything you see in this team right now, but potential is bulls*** until it's realized. I don't care what happens until Dec. 26th. Then I expect my holidays to be ruined. We go NOWHERE until we get over the Cowboy hump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted September 30, 2004 Author Share Posted September 30, 2004 Originally posted by Chachie Art- You are, of course, dead-on with every point. I am just now coming out of the deepest, darkest hole of Redskin-depression I think I've EVER felt. I see everything you see in this team right now, but potential is bulls*** until it's realized. I don't care what happens until Dec. 26th. Then I expect my holidays to be ruined. We go NOWHERE until we get over the Cowboy hump. Chachie, Honestly, I think the hump we are measuring ourselves by is not the Cowboys hump, but the Eagles hump. The Eagles are at the place we need to get to. Like the Giants in the late 80s. To get where we needed to get we had to take down New York. Now we have to take down Philly. When we're ready to do that, unless there's a major shift in the power of the division before then, this is really the primary focus. In some ways, though, we got over the Dallas hump on Monday Night. How exactly? We played a relatively clean game in which we pushed the Dallas defense around with our offense and where our defense controlled the Cowboys offense well. We lost because factors outside of our control came against us for the most part. Given how the game was played, we can reasonably think had those factors not played against us, the Cowboys couldn't have beaten us. Only because of the relative ease by which we handled them on both sides of the ball is this even a possible statement. We have outplayed Dallas in a game or two during this terrible stretch against them, but, for the most part, they really have outplayed us. They've dominated the stats and controlled the contest and we didn't match up well with them either from a personnel standpoint or from a schematic standpoint. Already you sense that's not the case right now. And that is after a three games. The real issue with Gibbs is not whether he'll fail to deliver what he offers to a team but whether he'll get the "touch" back. The feel of the game that allowed him to create matchups where he had receivers often running 5 yards behind the whole defense with just two receivers in routes. There was a little magic to the way Gibbs exploited teams back in the day and we do not see that right now. We can't know if that will ever return and if it doesn't, it will probably limit what degree of success Gibbs will ultimately have in this time with us. But, already you saw a dramatic difference in how we approach games. You already saw how the individual and schematic matchups with the Cowboys has shifted to our favor, or if not already there, it has at least been demonstrated we no longer have to fear the matchups when facing the Cowboys. I wouldn't be depressed if I were you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 So Art you are saying Gibbs is just like Spurrier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brave Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 The important thing is that games like these will not be the rule but the exception. All teams have bad games and make dumb mistakes and bad coaching moves. We've had two in a row now. But, we could have won both of them. Another sign of a Joe Gibbs team is that they don't always have to play a their best to win. They CAN overcome lackluster play and bad calls and still win. Though still frustrated with the manner in which we've lost the last two games, I must say that I can already tell the difference in this team from teams of recent history. Seven turnovers? We would have lost by 30 points! Two game-changing bad calls and 2 quarters of ineffective offense? We would have lost by 17 points in recent years. Oh, it's coming around. Joe Gibbs may not walk on water ... but he can sure as hell coach on a football field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scowan Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 The Skins have played 3 close games and come out on the losing end in two of them. Once they figure their offense out, which they are close to doing, they will blow someone out. It could actually happen this weekend in Cleveland. Everyone on the offense has had bad streaches in the first three games, Portis's fumbling, Coles not cathing balls, Garner not catching balls, Brunell making bad decisions, ect. One day soon, each of these players will click at the same time and on the same day, and it will be sweet to watch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 nice post Art...and needed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illone Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Definitely puts things in perspective. There are still some of us who expect a perfect 60 minutes of football, and who will continue to complain about Brunell's arm strength and the d-line's lack of a playmaker... oh wait, we are #1 in the NFL against the run:doh: Can't complain about that anymore, and wait, Brunell threw the long ball 5-6 times last game:doh: so we shouldn't hear anything to the contrary. All I know is that we are headed in the right direction. I am not depressed in the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeSkins Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Originally posted by Art Joe Gibbs is a Hall of Fame coach. He's been to four Super Bowls. He's won three of them. He retired. And as is often the case, the things we loved then, we grow to love and recall even MORE fondly as the years wear on. We begin to assign a level of perfection that is unattainable and yet, that's the expectation, so, we are disappointed that it's not attainable. Did you know when Joe Gibbs coached before that his football teams had many games with 10 penalties or more? Did you know when Joe Gibbs coached before his running backs fumbled at key moments every so often? Did you know when Joe Gibbs coached before his teams had games with seven turnovers? With six? With five? With four? With three? Did you know the receivers dropped passes every so often? Did you know the offensive line surrendered sacks? Did you know the running back didn't have 100 yards every game? Did you know the quarterbacks threw lots of incompletions? Did you know we lost games, many times, because we beat ourselves? Did you know we don't run a shot gun today because Gibbs couldn't figure out how to get his center to snap the ball back to the quarterback when he tried it before? Did you know we didn't score every play we ever had from the one-yard line when Gibbs was here before? Whether big back or small back even? My did you know questions can go on, but, let me stop a moment and switch gears. All of you, of course, knew all of these things. Why is it that some of you are shocked that these things are still present now? How is it some of you think 380 plus yards of offense is now ineffective? How is it that some of you have missed the essential nature of what Joe Gibbs provides in place of the lofty belief that the actual provision is perfection? I'll give you all the answer. One, unyielding fact that should turn each of you into comforted souls. At least for a spell. Joe Gibbs' football teams are not mistake-free, perfect juggernauts of unstoppable greatness. Joe Gibbs' teams, when good and when bad and when in between, are teams that achieve a HIGH degree of success through the limitation of mental mistakes (not necessarily physical mistakes) and through extremely hard work by the players and the coaches. That's about it. That's what you get. Since Gibbs left, team after typical Redskin team produced the sort of errors consistently that led you to believe the coaches had no way to correct errors and improve the team. The self-inflicted problems were greater than outside forces and that became the measure of Redskin teams under other coaching staffs. That's not the case under Gibbs yet, and it wasn't the case under Gibbs before. Until it becomes the case, we have pretty much exactly what we should have expected and many here knew we'd get. We now have a team that will give the level of effort required to win on a regular basis. Though, did you know that even when Gibbs was here before, his teams had bad days even here. It's simply not a staple of his teams. You don't get perfect teams though. You get teams that have been worked harder than most and therefore work harder in the games than many. Teams that are generally positioned well by the coaches because the coaches spend so much time assuring they know what they are seeing. You get often quite maddening conservatism from Gibbs. You get a coach who will throw things away if they aren't working and attempt to change to things that are with adjustments. Adjustments that to this point have been rather astounding in two of three games, but that's another post . Gibbs won our hearts and attained a level of sainthood and grew in our memories not for many of the reasons some of you seem to think. Right now his offense is still finding itself. What you're seeing is not what you will see in the form of motions and formation changes as the year and years go on. Other than that, this is just about exactly what to have expected from a Joe Gibbs team. What's missing is the development of players together within the system and the knowledge of the best ways to use those players. This comes from time together. Did you know it took time last time Gibbs was here? You should know the same is the case now. Yet, you already see the signs of this team transforming into what it used to be under Gibbs. It's not there yet. That, too, is a process. Last year at this time we were 2-1 heading to 3-1 and there's no way you could have felt as good about the team as you do now at 1-2. Unless, that is, you expected perfection. Weren't you the guy that, earlier in the preseason, didn't see any possible way that this team didn't start out 3-0? Wasn't that the argument you made for why we'd be more than 9-7? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 That is a great post Art. As far as I am concerned there is a light at the end of this tunnel, something we have not had in the past decade of Washington Redskin Football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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