2024 NFL Draft Position/Tracker - Final Pick #2

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

The Lions killed last years draft and I think most hove forgotten they also have Hendon Hooker sitting and learning behind Goff and Bridgewater for their future

 

We got picks like they did that year.  i think we can do this fast.

 

We thought Ron had a crap off season in real time.  But I didn't even imagine it would be this bad.  They have zero players right now making even an average contribution to this team from the off season, most are liabilities.

 

It's going to go down as a all timer awful off season.  

 

The Lions on the other hand killed it.  It shows you what one (where it doesn't have to be 5) good off season can do when you got cap room and picks.

 

I get that we've sucked forever so the idea that it will take a long time to rebuild is built in our DNA -- especially consideing all the draft picks we've traded away under all of these regimes and we are accustomed to not getting stars in our drafts.

 

But this is why this off season should be different and the past is just the past.

 

A.  A real pedigreed GM making the calls for the first time

B.  Most picks in the top 100 than this organization ever had.

C. High first rounder

D.  3rd most cap room in the league.  Could end up over 100 million.

 

It's the perfect storm to reload fast.   It doesn't have to be a long slow rebuild.   Also you can walk and chew gum at the same time like the Eagles do.   And the Dolphins did in their rebuild.  You can trade down, trade veterans and add picks and get good at the same time.  

 

We are used to seeing this as a linear all or nothing drill.  i get it because Dan with Bruce and Ron would play it in the middle.  Playing it in the middle is the worse IMO.  So I'd take a linear view than down the middle.  But you can add picks and actually have these picks actually hit like what happens for the Lions.  I agree that a rebuild will take a long time if we remain mediocre to worse at drafting and using FA.  But if you are actually good at personnel. you can get good fast as long as you got the QB.

Edited December 17, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Darrell Green Fan]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

We got picks like they did that year.  i think we can do this fast.

 

We thought Ron had a crap off season in real time.  But I didn't even imagine it would be this bad.  They have zero players right now making even an average contribution to this team from the off season, most are liabilities.

 

It's going to go down as a all timer awful off season.  

 

The Lions on the other hand killed it.  It shows you what one (not 5) good off season can do when you got cap room and picks.

 

I get that we've sucked forever so the idea that it will take a long time to rebuild is built in our DNA -- especially consideing all the draft picks we've traded away under all of these regimes.

 

But this is why this off season should be different and the past is just the past.

 

A.  A real pedigreed GM making the calls for the first time

B.  Most picks in the top 100 than this organization ever had.

C. High first rounder

D.  3rd most cap room in the league.  Could end up over 100 million.

 

It's the perfect storm to reload fast.   It doesn't have to be a long slow rebuild.   Also you can walk and chew gum at the same time like the Eagles do.   And the Dolphins did in their rebuild.  You can trade down, trade veterans and add picks and get good at the same time.  

 

We are using to seeing this as a linear all or nothing drill.  i get it because Dan with Bruce and Ron would play it in the middle.  Playing it in the middle is the worse IMO.  But you can add picks and actually have these picks actually hit like what happens for the Lions.  I agree that a rebuild will take a long time if we remain mediocre to worse at drafting and using FA.  But if you are actually good at personnel. you can get good fast as long as you got the QB.

 

I'm not sure what the Lions draft looked like 2 years ago but the drafts here, especially this last one,  produced virtually no talent on rookie contracts which is crucial to any roster. I think it will take several good drafts to overcome this.  

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

As my family is from Michigan I follow the Lions and am very happy for their success. But I sure don't think Gibbs was the right pick, do you?  They could have had Jalen Carter or others instead they took a RB where they could have found a similar back later in the draft.  

 

Jalen Carter went before their pick.  I didn't criticize the pick at the time.  I loved the player.  As did some others here, I recall @KDawg did.  I thought he'd be a dream pick for us in the 2nd.  I was surprised he went earlier.  But I get it.

 

But heck if a player is great he's great.  Would I want him over Forbes here.  Yes and by a mile.  I get the idea of don't take a RB early.  But he's not just a RB but also one heck of a passing weapon.

 

Speed kills.  Every week we seem to hear about how this defense is overwhelmed by that team's explosive players.  It annoys me to no end when Ron talks about the Dolphins and other teams as if we couldn't have done the same.  The Dolphins were worse than us when Ron took over.  the Lions were 3-13 in 2021.

 

That's what happens when your drafts and Fa classes are meh.  And you build the team on the D line and with power runners like its 1984 instead of 2024.

Edited December 17, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

I said Gibbs in the first would be a great get. And I stand by it. Still love the Gibbs/Campbell picks for Detroit

[DWinzit]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

We got picks like they did that year.  i think we can do this fast.

 

We thought Ron had a crap off season in real time.  But I didn't even imagine it would be this bad.  They have zero players right now making even an average contribution to this team from the off season, most are liabilities.

 

It's going to go down as a all timer awful off season.  

 

The Lions on the other hand killed it.  It shows you what one (not 5) good off season can do when you got cap room and picks.

 

I get that we've sucked forever so the idea that it will take a long time to rebuild is built in our DNA -- especially consideing all the draft picks we've traded away under all of these regimes.

 

But this is why this off season should be different and the past is just the past.

 

A.  A real pedigreed GM making the calls for the first time

B.  Most picks in the top 100 than this organization ever had.

C. High first rounder

D.  3rd most cap room in the league.  Could end up over 100 million.

 

It's the perfect storm to reload fast.   It doesn't have to be a long slow rebuild.   Also you can walk and chew gum at the same time like the Eagles do.   And the Dolphins did in their rebuild.  You can trade down, trade veterans and add picks and get good at the same time.  

 

We are using to seeing this as a linear all or nothing drill.  i get it because Dan with Bruce and Ron would play it in the middle.  Playing it in the middle is the worse IMO.  But you can add picks and actually have these picks actually hit like what happens for the Lions.  I agree that a rebuild will take a long time if we remain mediocre to worse at drafting and using FA.  But if you are actually good at personnel. you can get good fast as long as you got the QB.

Yes! The key is it will need to start with the GM, HC, DC and OC being on the same page with a real plan for the future.

 

Then they need to resign any players they wish to keep, spend overtime on studying draft prospects and nail some players down in FA.

 

Then they need to get a A+ draft grade and hope to end out with an extra pick for the 2025 draft.

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I said Gibbs in the first would be a great get. And I stand by it. Still love the Gibbs/Campbell picks for Detroit

 

Yeah I remember we both (among others) also loved Laporta and Branch who are also killing it.

 

Look what happens when you draft well?

 

It doesn't have to take an eternity to build a good roster. 

Edited December 17, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Going Commando]

2 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

"The next guy may want their own guy", "it wouldn't be wise for them not to keep their options open", especially with offers that could come.

 

Is a team that jus got embarrassed the way they did last Thursday without their QB closer to a couple tweaks to be a contender or in need of a full rebuild? 

 

The next guy is taking the Chargers job specifically to have Herbert as his QB.  When you've got a young MVP caliber QB on a long term deal, that's the foundation for your entire build. You start your rebuild on mile 13, and can just focus on building around him.

 

There are only two ultra desirable job openings for coach candidates this off-season: Chicago if they fire Eberflus, and the Chargers.  If they trade Herbert, the Chargers lose almost all of the desirability of their opening.

[Renegade7]

2 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

The next guy is taking the Chargers job specifically to have Herbert as his QB.  When you've got a young MVP caliber QB on a long term deal, that's the foundation for your entire build. You start your rebuild on mile 13, and can just focus on building around him.

 

There are only two ultra desirable job openings for coach candidates this off-season: Chicago if they fire Eberflus, and the Chargers.  If they trade Herbert, the Chargers lose almost all of the desirability of their opening.

 

Chargers are between a rock and a hard place being $41 million over the cap already, they need a good answer for that to be as desirable as you claim. 

 

It's hard to get these QBs, but there's not much you can do with them until that's situation around them is resolved. How old will he be by then?

[KDawg]

I don’t think the Chargers job is all that great. Bad cap situation, Herbert hasn’t proven much of anything so far. Going to be interesting.

[RWJ]

7 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I don’t think the Chargers job is all that great. Bad cap situation, Herbert hasn’t proven much of anything so far. Going to be interesting.

This year has been decent but before this year he was on fire! 🔥

 

From Spotrac:

 

[samy316]

13 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I don’t think the Chargers job is all that great. Bad cap situation, Herbert hasn’t proven much of anything so far. Going to be interesting.

The Chargers job will be the 2nd best job after Chicago for two reasons, franchise QB and location.  Herbert in my opinion, is a Top 5 QB, and any coach/GM would be drooling at the chance to work for a team that already has his guy, and to work for a team in sunny Los Angeles.  Chicago has almost the same cap space as we do, but they’ll be drafting the most talented QB of the last decade at #1 AND they have another Top 10 pick, so they’re easily the best job for any coaching/GM candidate.

 

This team will struggle to attract the top tier coaching/GM prospects, because we don’t have a franchise QB, and our “talent” is overrated.  Sure, we’ll have plenty of cap space, and most likely a Top 4 pick, but the problem with Washington is that since we really don’t have a franchise QB, it’s going to be hard to sell this job as attractive, when you have SO many holes to fix with the OL, most of the D and no capable TE on the roster.  The GM that does get hired is going to have to make some really tough decisions this offseason (including where we go at QB).  This roster is a mess, and the fact that we don’t know if we have a franchise QB in Howell, or that we might have to draft one at Pick 3 or 4 is very complicated.

Edited December 17, 2023 by samy316

[philibusters]

11 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I don’t think the Chargers job is all that great. Bad cap situation, Herbert hasn’t proven much of anything so far. Going to be interesting.

 

To me the number 1 that you have to have to build a consistent contender is a franchise QB.  Justin Herbert is a franchise QB in my opinion.  If you have a franchise QB, you will get consistent surplus value out of that position, which will make rebuilding easier.

[formerly4skins]

28 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

It's the perfect storm to reload fast.   It doesn't have to be a long slow rebuild.   Also you can walk and chew gum at the same time like the Eagles do.   And the Dolphins did in their rebuild.  You can trade down, trade veterans and add picks and get good at the same time.  

 

I liked seeing that the new analytics guru Harris hired was with two teams who have rebuilt fairly quickly and had returns to relevance in the Dolphins and Jags.

 

Feels like with him in-house the team can get a jump on a (hopefully) quick turnaround and planning their off-season machinations...without having to wait for the current staff to be canned and a new GM hiring process to play out.

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, samy316 said:

The Chargers job will be the 2nd best job after Chicago for two reasons, franchise QB and location.  Herbert in my opinion, is a Top 5 QB, and any coach/GM would be drooling at the chance to work for a team that already has his guy, and to work for a team in sunny Los Angeles.  Chicago has almost the same cap space as we do, but they’ll be drafting the most talented QB of the last decade at #1 AND they have another Top 10 pick, so they’re easily the best job for any coaching/GM candidate.

 

This team will struggle to attract the top tier coaching/GM prospects, because we don’t have a franchise QB, and our “talent” is overrated.  Sure, we’ll have plenty of cap space, and most likely a Top 4 pick, but the problem with Washington is that since we really don’t have a franchise QB, it’s going to be hard to sell this job as attractive, when you have SO many holes to fix with the OL, most of the D and no capable TE on the roster.  The GM that does get hired is going to have to make some really tough decisions this offseason (including where we go at QB).  This roster is a mess, and the fact that we don’t know if we have a franchise QB in Howell, or that we might have to draft one at Pick 3 or 4 is very complicated.

I’m not arguing this team will have great candidates. But… we have a ton of cap space and a high draft choice and a cupboard of draft picks. A GM/coach can come in and mold the team.

 

I’m also not saying Herbert isn’t great. He is. But so far he has been mediocre record wise over a large sample size. Is that all his fault. No. Absolutely, 100% no. See Eason Stick’s performance. 
 

But combine that with an awful cap situation and that job is a touch less desirable in a vacuum. But having a franchise guy (which Herbert is, regardless of record) absolutely will find suitors. I just don’t think that job is a slam dunk best available.

 

Chicago may be… 

Edited December 17, 2023 by KDawg

[philibusters]

17 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Chargers are between a rock and a hard place being $41 million over the cap already, they need a good answer for that to be as desirable as you claim. 

 

It's hard to get these QBs, but there's not much you can do with them until that's situation around them is resolved. How old will he be by then?

 

I disagree.  Just tear down the roster for a year.  Eat a lot of deadcap and just be really bad for a year.   Then next offseason your cap situation is a lot better, you have a really high pick where you can get a bluechip prospect or trade down and get an extra first rounder.  Where the Chargers run into problems is if they feel they have to compete every year rather than rebuild.   I think they should rebuild and the rebuild should be a lot easier because they already have the QB.

[Going Commando]

Just now, samy316 said:

This team will struggle to attract the top tier coaching/GM prospects, because we don’t have a franchise QB, and our “talent” is overrated.  Sure, we’ll have plenty of cap space, and most likely a Top 4 pick, but the problem with Washington is that since we really don’t have a franchise QB, it’s going to be hard to sell this job as attractive, when you have SO many holes to fix with the OL, most of the D and no capable TE on the roster.  The GM that does get hired is going to have to make some really tough decisions this offseason (including where we go at QB).  This roster is a mess, and the fact that we don’t know if we have a franchise QB in Howell, or that we might have to draft one at Pick 3 or 4 is very complicated.

 

If we finish top four, our draft pick will be a selling point for a new regime.  But if we don't, then we lose one of our only selling points.  It's not just that the roster will be a challenge to coach and rebuild.  We also have green ownership, our team is broke, our stadium and facilities are trash, our fan base is gone and we have no home field advantage, and our division is elite.  Probably have to make a ton of changes to the non-football people in the organization too, for instance, I would be shocked if our strength coaches and our medical people are up to par with the rest of the league.

 

We're going to be toward the back of the line of coaching/GM openings this winter.  Especially if we finish outside of blue chip QB prospect range.

[KDawg]

Just now, philibusters said:

 

I disagree.  Just tear down the roster for a year.  Eat a lot of deadcap and just be really bad for a year.   Then next offseason your cap situation is a lot better, you have a really high pick where you can get a bluechip prospect or trade down and get an extra first rounder.  Where the Chargers run into problems is if they feel they have to compete every year rather than rebuild.   I think they should rebuild and the rebuild should be a lot easier because they already have the QB.

I think this is true. But… you’re wasting a year of a franchise guy to rebuild. This is a reason why I believe you have to have somewhat of a roster compiled prior to getting the franchise guy… or at least be in great shape to get the roster turned over quickly. 
 

I’m not sure La is, but I’m not dug in there. I haven’t done a ton of research on their cap situation so I can be persuaded fairly easily.

[samy316]

13 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I’m not arguing this team will have great candidates. But… we have a ton of cap space and a high draft choice and a cupboard of draft picks. A GM/coach can come in and mold the team.

 

I’m also not saying Herbert isn’t great. He is. But so far he has been mediocre record wise over a large sample size? Is that all his fault. No. Absolutely, 100% no. See Eason Stick’s performance. 
 

But combine that with an awful cap situation and that job is a touch less desirable in a vacuum. But having a franchise guy (which Herbert is, regardless of record) absolutely will find suitors. I just don’t think that job is a slam dunk best available.

 

Chicago may be… 

Having a Top 5 QB is something that 90-95% of teams don’t have. When you have a Top 5 QB, you don’t need to rebuild, that guy is going to be talented enough (with good coaching) to always get you to contention in your division and in the conference.  The Chargers floor will always be 9-10 wins, with someone like Herbert.  If they get a good offensive minded coach, their ceiling could be higher, even with their cap situation.  We don’t have that luxury at the moment. Our floor is going to be significantly lower, because we lack quality talent across the board AND we don’t have our franchise QB.  The road for us to become a contender is much narrower and complicated, until we get our franchise QB, and address the other holes we have on our roster.

 

At the end of the day, as yourselves this:  Would you rather be the Chargers, with a Top 5 QB and over the salary cap, or would you rather be the Commanders, with cap space at $100 million, but no franchise QB, and an overrated roster that needs a TON of retooling? I’d rather be the Chargers.  You already have a cheat code to becoming a contender, all you need now is a smart, talented offensive minded coach, and the turnaround will be quick and easy.

Edited December 17, 2023 by samy316

[KDawg]

18 minutes ago, samy316 said:

Having a Top 5 QB is something that 90-95% of teams don’t have. When you have a Top 5 QB, you don’t need to rebuild, that guy is going to be talented enough (with good coaching) to always get you to contention in your division and in the conference.  The Chargers floor will always be 9-10 wins, with someone like Herbert.  If they get a good offensive minded coach, their ceiling could be higher, even with their cap situation.  We don’t have that luxury at the moment. Our floor is going to be significantly lower, because we lack quality talent across the board AND we don’t have our franchise QB.  The road for us to become a contender is much narrower and complicated, until we get our franchise QB, and address the other holes we have on our roster.

 

At the end of the day, as yourselves this:  Would you rather be the Chargers, with a Top 5 QB and over the salary cap, or would you rather be the Commanders, with cap space at $100 million, but no franchise QB, and an overrated roster that needs a TON of retooling? I’d rather be the Chargers.  You already have a cheat code to becoming a contender, all you need now is a smart, talented offensive minded coach, and the turnaround will be quick and easy.

The Chargers won’t win 9 games this season… and wouldnt have even if Herbert was healthy the last two. He was awful before he went out last week.

 

That team is in a bad situation.

 

While I agree franchise QBs are an organizational flipper… they aren’t everything. You need other pieces. The Chargers are lacking a lot of those other pieces. They are a mess. 
 

To your question: I’d rather be the Commanders situation. They are set up better for the long term. 
 

When you factor the stadium and such in that changes things, too, of course. But from a football standpoint Washington has more room to grow/mold/quick turnaround. 

Edited December 17, 2023 by KDawg

[Renegade7]

22 minutes ago, philibusters said:

 

I disagree.  Just tear down the roster for a year.  Eat a lot of deadcap and just be really bad for a year.   Then next offseason your cap situation is a lot better, you have a really high pick where you can get a bluechip prospect or trade down and get an extra first rounder.  Where the Chargers run into problems is if they feel they have to compete every year rather than rebuild.   I think they should rebuild and the rebuild should be a lot easier because they already have the QB.

 

It takes time to replace talent, especially if they are getting rid of most of what they have first.  Amd that's if they get it right, they already got it wrong once.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Something that would be interesting … what if the new FO believes in Sam but covets all 3 QBs at the top of the draft?

 

If we ended up getting the #2 pick, maybe we’d be open to trading from 2 to 4 with the Pats. They come up for Maye or Daniel’s. Then we assume Cards go Harrison. If they take a QB or trade out for someone coming up for a QB, we ride Sam. But if Daniel’s or Maye is there at #4, we take them. 
 

kind of a weird caveat but it could be in play if we have pick 4 given we have some flexibility at QB with Howell and if we have Maye and Daniels close in ranking. 
 

Rooting for 2 huge upsets today. If Pats beat the Chiefs and Cards beat the 49ers we move up to #2 if we lose to the Rams, for now. 

Edited December 17, 2023 by JamesMadisonSkins

[samy316]

12 minutes ago, KDawg said:

The Chargers won’t win 9 games this season… and wouldnt have even if Herbert was healthy the last two. He was awful before he went out last week.

 

That team is in a bad situation.

 

While I agree franchise QBs are an organizational flipper… they aren’t everything. You need other pieces. The Chargers are lacking a lot of those other pieces. They are a mess. 
 

To your question: I’d rather be the Commanders situation. They are set up better for the long term. 
 

When you factor the stadium and such in that changes things, too, of course. But from a football standpoint Washington has more room to grow/mold/quick turnaround. 

Sorry, but I disagree with this.  Having a QB like Herbert, is like having the answers to a test before the test is administered.  All you have to do, is fill out the correct answers, and your job is done.  We don’t have a franchise QB, so our path to relevancy gets a lot more complicated.  The roster we had going into this season that we thought was so talented, turned out to be severely overrated with LOTS of holes.  Our situation isn’t an ideal one.  We also have low quality facilities and a terrible reputation that can’t all be fixed over night.  The Chargers have top tier facilities and the best stadium in the NFL (I’m heading out there to see it for the first time ever later today, can’t wait).  We’re at least 3rd or 4th in the pecking order when it comes to job attractiveness.  We have a long road ahead of us to start retooling this team, and trying to find a franchise QB.

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, samy316 said:

Sorry, but I disagree with this.  Having a QB like Herbert, is like having the answers to a test before the test is administered.  All you have to do, is fill out the correct answers, and your job is done.  We don’t have a franchise QB, so our path to relevancy gets a lot more complicated.  The roster we had going into this season that we thought was so talented, turned out to be severely overrated with LOTS of holes.  Our situation isn’t an ideal one.  We also have low quality facilities and a terrible reputation that can’t all be fixed over night.  The Chargers have top tier facilities and the best stadium in the NFL (I’m heading out there to see it for the first time ever later today, can’t wait).  We’re at least 3rd or 4th in the pecking order when it comes to job attractiveness.  We have a long road ahead of us to start retooling this team, and trying to find a franchise QB.

And they may lose Herbert before they can compete, too.

[samy316]

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

And they may lose Herbert before they can compete, too.

Herbert just signed his extension before the season, so he isn’t going anywhere for at least the next 4-5 years.  I forgot to mention this, but the Chargers also have a cornerstone LT, which is another gigantic piece that we’re missing.  If you already have your franchise QB (along with a cornerstone LT), your franchise is almost set.  It wouldn’t matter who they had at WR or RB, a franchise QB elevates the team around him and makes those players better.  The Chargers have two crucial spots solved that 90-95% of teams don’t.  Their rebuild will be infinitely quicker (provided that they hire the right offensive minded coach).

Edited December 17, 2023 by samy316

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, samy316 said:

Herbert just signed his extension before the season, so he isn’t going anywhere for at least the next 4-5 years.  I forgot to mention this, but the Chargers also have a cornerstone LT, which is another gigantic piece that we’re missing.  If you already have your franchise QB (along with a cornerstone LT), your franchise is almost set.  It wouldn’t matter who they had at WR or RB, a franchise QB elevates the team around him and makes those players better.  The Chargers have two crucial spots solved that 90-95% of teams don’t.  Their rebuild will be infinitely quicker (provided that they hire the right offensive minded coach).

I want to be clear. I’m not arguing you’re wrong. I’m arguing that it’s not open and shut. There are advantages to both jobs, and Chicago. And others. It’s not black and white.