2024 NFL Draft Position/Tracker - Final Pick #2

[YouLikeThat]

4 minutes ago, Daniel.redskins said:

Not many people feel that way. Howell has exceeded expectations behind the worst oline in football. 

So next year if we draft a QB and he struggles behind the worst oline, are you going to blame the QB or the oline? I have a feeling a lot of the fans will finally start blaming the oline but for some reason Howell gets the blame this year.  

We need to fix the oline this draft then look for a QB if Howell still struggles.  

There was a reference to the future IF it turned out Howell isn't the guy after next year and wanting the team to go after QBs in a less talented class.

[The Consigliere]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

You'd be hard pressed to find too many peiple this off season who harped more on the O line than me.  But four points.

 

A.  Find a QB with elite upside (if that's what you believe they have) is the hardest thing to find in sports.

B.  Most teams do not skip on a QB if they are picking high for another position unless they are confident they got the right QB

C. Your whole off seson isn't just about your first round pick

D.  It's not about building Rome in a day.  Give it time.  A young QB gives you 5 years.  The pressure is more intense to build it quick with Sam because he's cheap for 2 more years, that's it.

 

 

Yep, this OL rebuild will take years and we already know that OL has a generous hit rate into early day 3 historically, with so many positions to fill with starters and backups, it may just be a position cohort thing, but basically, OL is something you can easily address with 2nd and 3rd rounder and Free agent money this year, and a first next year or 3rd or whatever. The OL aint gonna be fixed by Fashanu, QB could be fixed by just one guy. To fix the OL we are going to have to improve nearly 6-7 positions alone (starter and backup). It's a multi-year problem that needs many bullets, and not just a first, and as has been mentioned repeatedly, we had all pro's at LT, RT, Guard, and reasonable options around them essentially from 1999-2020 and we sucked --- that entire time because the QB's were all trash or at best Joe Average. You cannot build a long term contender in this league with average QB's and a nice OL. This is not the 1980s anymore. You need both. The fix will take years, plural, and we may have the piece right now to fix one position most essential to building a long term contender. You take it. Why are so many people so bound and determined to repeat the mistakes of 2017, 2018, 2020, and 2021? How many times do you have to address other positions while QB is at best questionable, and then get the resulting .500 to .300 win percentage season before you understand QB trumps all the rest of that bull----? I'm just stunned that a board that was largely, stepping over one another with exultation to draft Chase Young over Tua and Herbert in '20, want to do more of the same in '24? It's mind boggling to me. And btw, like you, I really like Howell, but just like in 2020, he hasn't proven to be anything special at all, as yet, we have no idea what he is, and if you don't know what you have at QB, you can't rely on sitting tight at QB when you have the opportunity to do something about it. Btw, for the people that love Howell, if they are right, he becomes a real tradable asset in season in '24 if he's hitting. We don't have to start the rookie day 1 with Howell on the roster, and if your sanguinity is justified, you can move him or the QB for plenty of booty next deadline next fall. 

17 minutes ago, YouLikeThat said:

I dont think people realize how good Caleb Williams is and its really not so much of a wow you with arm strength or mobility or clockwork processing of progressions its just his ability to make plays at the most unforseen time. You WILL hate playing against this guy so everyone doubting him keep on. Playmaking wise hes the closest thing to Pat Mahomes and that goes for next year's draft that fools will be like now we know Howells not the guy lets get a qb out of the Christian Ponders or Jake Lockers who were ultimate first round bums from the get go.

We can't get him though. He's gonna be bear, there's zero chance they trade away the rights to him. 

[The Consigliere]

3 hours ago, Forehead said:

I think San Francisco is honestly a pretty good example of what you can do as long as you take care of almost everything else.  Purdy isn't bad but no one is going to mistake the kid for a Mahomes or Josh Allen.

 

I can't believe I'm about to use the Jets as an example but I agreed with what they did.  They built a great defense.  They had a true #1 in Garrett Wilson and potential in the backfield with Breece Hall.  They had put some resources into the O-Line with Becton, Tomlinson, and Vera-Tucker.

 

At that point, I'm totally fine with selling the farm for an Aaron Rodgers type if they're available.  I still think it would have worked out really well for them if his Achilles hadn't turned him into their version of Ryan Fitzpatrick.

 

Point is, I still think we roll with Howell on his cheap deal and see what he's got.  Every draft class has some QB people are going to fall in love with.  Shoot, that list I posted a page ago, even the crappy years, people were all in on a lot of those guys.  This team has far bigger issues than QB.

What SF did is nearly impossible which is why teams don't do it. Hitting on a franchise QB in round 7 is not something you can count on, and building everything perfectly and depending upon a day 3 pick to fix the position is a fools errand. It happens literally once or twice a decade, with approaching a hundred QB busts being drafted or signed as UDFA's for every Purdy that hits to that degree. You can't plan on a Purdy. There's a reason you remember the names and you forget all the busts and its because there are so very few of them. Tom Brady, Kurt Warner, Brock Purdy, sort of Dak (not as late, but still a day 3 guy). It's exceptionally rare, and NOBODY ever remembers the gazillion of guys dumped at the nearest exit after one offseason, the Gibran Hamdam's of the world, the Chris Hakel's etc. There are a zillion of them for every Purdy you find. It's not a plan to try to copy what SF did, which is why they tried to solve the problem with Lance, and then kept trying afterwards. It's what you have to do. 

[YouLikeThat]

2 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

 

Yep, this OL rebuild will take years and we already know that OL has a generous hit rate into early day 3 historically, with so many positions to fill with starters and backups, it may just be a position cohort thing, but basically, OL is something you can easily address with 2nd and 3rd rounder and Free agent money this year, and a first next year or 3rd or whatever. The OL aint gonna be fixed by Fashanu, QB could be fixed by just one guy. To fix the OL we are going to have to improve nearly 6-7 positions alone (starter and backup). It's a multi-year problem that needs many bullets, and not just a first, and as has been mentioned repeatedly, we had all pro's at LT, RT, Guard, and reasonable options around them essentially from 1999-2020 and we sucked --- that entire time because the QB's were all trash or at best Joe Average. You cannot build a long term contender in this league with average QB's and a nice OL. This is not the 1980s anymore. You need both. The fix will take years, plural, and we may have the piece right now to fix one position most essential to building a long term contender. You take it. Why are so many people so bound and determined to repeat the mistakes of 2017, 2018, 2020, and 2021? How many times do you have to address other positions while QB is at best questionable, and then get the resulting .500 to .300 win percentage season before you understand QB trumps all the rest of that bull----? I'm just stunned that a board that was largely, stepping over one another with exultation to draft Chase Young over Tua and Herbert in '20, want to do more of the same in '24? It's mind boggling to me. And btw, like you, I really like Howell, but just like in 2020, he hasn't proven to be anything special at all, as yet, we have no idea what he is, and if you don't know what you have at QB, you can't rely on sitting tight at QB when you have the opportunity to do something about it. Btw, for the people that love Howell, if they are right, he becomes a real tradable asset in season in '24 if he's hitting. We don't have to start the rookie day 1 with Howell on the roster, and if your sanguinity is justified, you can move him or the QB for plenty of booty next deadline next fall. 

We can't get him though. He's gonna be bear, there's zero chance they trade away the rights to him. 

Not sure why people think Justin Fields is a bum and a foregone conclusion in Chicago. Im sure there are some delusional people that would disagree but Fields is better than Howell and has a higher upside. Hes getting better as the season goes on while Howell is getting worse and this only being judged when he is upright making throws. Lets see how the rest of the season plays out to see where teams could possibly view their qb situation 

[The Consigliere]

14 minutes ago, Daniel.redskins said:

Not many people feel that way. Howell has exceeded expectations behind the worst oline in football. 

So next year if we draft a QB and he struggles behind the worst oline, are you going to blame the QB or the oline? I have a feeling a lot of the fans will finally start blaming the oline but for some reason Howell gets the blame this year.  

We need to fix the oline this draft then look for a QB if Howell still struggles.  

You can't do it in that order. What do you think we end up with if we try it that way? QB's don't drop in drafts, if you do everything else first, you have to depend upon blind luck to solve the problem and blind luck isn't a plan. 

3 minutes ago, YouLikeThat said:

Not sure why people think Justin Fields is a bum and a foregone conclusion in Chicago. Im sure there are some delusional people that would disagree but Fields is better than Howell and has a higher upside. Hes getting better as the season goes on while Howell is getting worse and this only being judged when he is upright making throws. Lets see how the rest of the season plays out to see where teams could possibly view their qb situation 

The throwing piece. I've always been a Fields supporter, and he's certainly improved over time, but the word has been quite strong from day 1 that the Bears are gonna take Caleb. Maybe they trade down but I doubt it, Fields only has 1 more season before his rookie option, Caleb would have four. 

[Commander202]

56 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

 

Yep, this OL rebuild will take years and we already know that OL has a generous hit rate into early day 3 historically, with so many positions to fill with starters and backups, it may just be a position cohort thing, but basically, OL is something you can easily address with 2nd and 3rd rounder and Free agent money this year, and a first next year or 3rd or whatever. The OL aint gonna be fixed by Fashanu, QB could be fixed by just one guy. To fix the OL we are going to have to improve nearly 6-7 positions alone (starter and backup). It's a multi-year problem that needs many bullets, and not just a first, and as has been mentioned repeatedly, we had all pro's at LT, RT, Guard, and reasonable options around them essentially from 1999-2020 and we sucked --- that entire time because the QB's were all trash or at best Joe Average. You cannot build a long term contender in this league with average QB's and a nice OL. This is not the 1980s anymore. You need both. The fix will take years, plural, and we may have the piece right now to fix one position most essential to building a long term contender. You take it. Why are so many people so bound and determined to repeat the mistakes of 2017, 2018, 2020, and 2021? How many times do you have to address other positions while QB is at best questionable, and then get the resulting .500 to .300 win percentage season before you understand QB trumps all the rest of that bull----? I'm just stunned that a board that was largely, stepping over one another with exultation to draft Chase Young over Tua and Herbert in '20, want to do more of the same in '24? It's mind boggling to me. And btw, like you, I really like Howell, but just like in 2020, he hasn't proven to be anything special at all, as yet, we have no idea what he is, and if you don't know what you have at QB, you can't rely on sitting tight at QB when you have the opportunity to do something about it. Btw, for the people that love Howell, if they are right, he becomes a real tradable asset in season in '24 if he's hitting. We don't have to start the rookie day 1 with Howell on the roster, and if your sanguinity is justified, you can move him or the QB for plenty of booty next deadline next fall. 

We can't get him though. He's gonna be bear, there's zero chance they trade away the rights to him. 

Bears seem likely to keep fields and rebuild the OL and just draft Harrison. Even so I think Mayes goes first in reading  he’s another Herbert build and has a very bright personality so I can see him going first especially to NE.

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, The Consigliere said:

We can't get him though. He's gonna be bear, there's zero chance they trade away the rights to him. 

 

What if he pulls an Eli Manning on Chicago?  Maybe not crazy to think he'd do that if Eberfluss is viewed as a lame duck.  Drake Maye being in the class too makes trading Williams palatable.

1 hour ago, YouLikeThat said:

Not sure why people think Justin Fields is a bum and a foregone conclusion in Chicago. Im sure there are some delusional people that would disagree but Fields is better than Howell and has a higher upside. Hes getting better as the season goes on while Howell is getting worse and this only being judged when he is upright making throws. Lets see how the rest of the season plays out to see where teams could possibly view their qb situation 

 

I think Fields ends up in Atlanta next season.  There will be a handful of teams who need a decent QB that get shut out of the first round options like Tampa and Atlanta and New Orleans.  Maybe Oakland.  Fields will be at the top of the list for those teams.

[mhd24]

19 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

What if he pulls an Eli Manning on Chicago?  Maybe not crazy to think he'd do that if Eberfluss is viewed as a lame duck.  Drake Maye being in the class too makes trading Williams palatable.

 

I think Fields ends up in Atlanta next season.  There will be a handful of teams who need a decent QB that get shut out of the first round options like Tampa and Atlanta and New Orleans.  Maybe Oakland.  Fields will be at the top of the list for those teams.

Rumors are that Cousins is Atlanta bound in FA

[Stone Cold]

26 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

What if he pulls an Eli Manning on Chicago?  Maybe not crazy to think he'd do that if Eberfluss is viewed as a lame duck.  Drake Maye being in the class too makes trading Williams palatable.

 

I think Fields ends up in Atlanta next season.  There will be a handful of teams who need a decent QB that get shut out of the first round options like Tampa and Atlanta and New Orleans.  Maybe Oakland.  Fields will be at the top of the list for those teams.

Tbh…fields in Atl with those weapons could be very scary if they figure it out.  

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, Forehead said:

 

Nothing specific.  None of these guys have Trevor Lawrence type tools/pedigree and he's struggled a bit because Jacksonville hasn't put a ton of high level talent around him, though I'm aware they're doing better this season.  

 

As far as tools specifically go IMO Caleb's off platform mobilty is insane, better than Trevor.  His arm strength is as good IMO.    Drake's mobility and arm strength sort of remind me of Trevor on superficial watching.  But as I told @KDawg I'll watch deeper.  My mind might change.   Most love Drake.  I noticed @KDawg not so much.  I am not saying he's wrong.  The opposite, I respect him enough to watch closer and decide for myself.

 

3 hours ago, Forehead said:

 

  I still remember this board being in love with Trey Lance two years ago,

 

 

I spent a lot of time on the draft thread that year.  Very few were pounding the table for Trey Lance.   The dude was raw as heck.  That wasn't a secret.  He was billed as boom-bust.  He had a few fans, that's it.  But that was far from a consensus take on that draft thread

 

3 hours ago, Forehead said:

 

Talking ourselves into Haskins before that. 

 

I was actively rooting for Haskins to be taken before our pick, that's how much i didn't want him.  And I wasn't alone on that.

 

3 hours ago, Forehead said:

I remember people on this board talking about how Mitch Trubisky had "it."

 

 

Also not a consensus take.  there are a zillion opinions on the draft thread.  Heck I recall two people loving Kyle Trask.  So what?  You get 100 people to give opinions, and you will hear everything.  But I don't recall a consensus that we really need Trubisky take on that thread.

 

But anyway even if all of this was true.  So what?  The case you'd be making is you wouldn't want Extremskins board posters to pick your QB.  Heck that's sort of my point.  Some here believe they can call it now.  Sam is the dude.  These others guys are not better.  Case closed.   I want a professional to make the call.  I am not reassured because name the poster here tells me they've seen enough that Howell is elite or don't believe the hype on name that QB because they got a better read on the situation.

 

3 hours ago, Forehead said:

 

San Fran has shown a good blueprint as far as I'm concerned.  Our own division is being led by two QB's who weren't first rounders.  Other teams like the Ravens and Lions are being led by QB's who are good but flawed.  I simply don't think the potential improvement over what we already have in Howell is worth the risk when our draft capital can be spent on other significant needs.

 

We've traveled that road so many times.  Don't go with the top 5 type.   We've take some first rounders but sans RG3 none of them were taken high in the first and all were overdrafted.  

 

We've not played in the Tiffany's aisle.  Trying to JC Pennys the position in the draft isn't a new ride for us.  That's been most of the ride.  

 

Is Howell the dude where they strike gold?  Maybe.  I suspect we hit silver with him.  Is that good enough for me.  In theory yes.  But I am not scared of taking a QB top 5.  And a minimum I think its foolish to not even consider this.

 

18 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

Rumors are that Cousins is Atlanta bound in FA

 

I've read that Minny will try to keep him and he likes it there.  So there is at least one conflicting report on it

Edited December 13, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

 

What if he pulls an Eli Manning on Chicago?  Maybe not crazy to think he'd do that if Eberfluss is viewed as a lame duck.  Drake Maye being in the class too makes trading Williams palatable.

 

 

I am just starting to digest Maye.  I noticed there are some mocks that had him #1.  I just watched an interview of Bruce Feldman who said about 20% of the scouts he's talked to had Maye #1, 80% Caleb.

 

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/scouting-drake-maye-north-carolina-quarterback-similar-to-carson-palmer

 

NFL.com analyst and former NFL scout Daniel Jeremiah takes a "first look" at some of college football's top players for 2023. This is the fifth and final entry in a series of scouting reports that ran in July.

Coming off a dazzling first season as a starter, North Carolina quarterback Drake Maye is one of the buzziest prospects in college football entering the 2023 season.

After redshirting in 2021 (appeared in four games), Maye rose to the top of the depth chart in 2022, throwing for 4,321 yards (fourth in the FBS) and 38 touchdowns (tied for fifth). He showed the ability make plays with his legs, too, ranking sixth among FBS quarterbacks with 698 yards rushing.

 

As you might expect with production like that, plenty of accolades followed. He became the second player in history to win ACC Player of the Year, ACC Offensive Player of the Year, ACC Rookie of the Year and ACC Offensive Rookie of the Year in the same season, joining Florida State product Jameis Winston.

Maye enters this season with some changes to his supporting cast. His top two receivers from 2022, Josh Downs and Antoine Green, have moved on to the NFL. Also, he'll have a new offensive coordinator, as Chip Lindsey replaces Phil Longo, who left to become the OC at Wisconsin. Interestingly, UNC has brought in longtime NFL assistant coach Clyde Christensen as a volunteer offensive analyst. He has experience coaching Peyton Manning, Andrew Luck and, most recently, Tom Brady.

I'm excited to see how the new offense jells, with Maye looking to lead a more complete season from the Tar Heels after they lost their last four contests in 2022.

Now that I've had a chance to check out Maye's game tape from last season, here is my initial scouting report.

 

Height, weight: 6-foot-4, 230 pounds (school measurements).

2022 statistics (14 games played): 342-of-517 (66.2%) for 4,321 yards, 38 TDs and 7 INTs; 184 carries for 698 yards (3.8 average), 7 TDs.

Game tape watched: at Appalachian State (Sept. 3, 2022), vs. Notre Dame (Sept. 24, 2022), at Miami (Oct. 8, 2022).

 

What I liked: Maye is the definition of a prototype. He has everything you would want in a franchise quarterback. He's big, athletic and instinctive. He can deliver the ball accurately to all three levels of the field and he has the feel/touch to change trajectory and velocity depending on what each throw requires. He has an innate feel to sense pressure, drift away from it and get the ball where it needs to go. When needed, he can really drive and power the ball into small windows.

Maye is also used quite often in the quarterback run game. He's a good decision-maker on zone reads. He is both fast and elusive in space. The soon-to-be 21-year-old will take some unnecessary hits at times, but overall, he protects himself well. His skill set maximizes the playbook. He can function in any style of offense.

Where he needs to improve: Ball security isn't a major concern, but he did force a couple throws in the Miami game, which led to turnovers. Also, he's put the ball on the ground a few times as a ball-carrier. I'm not concerned about the interceptions (he threw just seven last season), but he does need to secure the ball better as a rusher. That is an easy fix. He's very accurate throwing off platform when under pressure, but there are examples where he will unnecessarily fall off throws while operating in a clean pocket. There really wasn't anything alarming to be concerned about after studying his tape.

 

Biggest takeaway: In a normal year, Maye would clearly be viewed as the top quarterback in the country. USC's Caleb Williams has laid claim to that title, coming off a Heisman Trophy-winning 2022 campaign. However, I fully expect Maye to push Williams for that distinction through the upcoming season. Maye does everything at a very high level, and he possesses more prototypical size than the talented Trojans QB. For teams in need of a new signal-caller, the next QB class has the potential to rival the 2020 group, which produced the likes of Joe Burrow, Justin Herbert and Jalen Hurts.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[kingdaddy]

7 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Sounds like this is basically you saying you are off of the 1st round QB scene.  If so the best starters still weight heavily in favor of the higher drafted QBs.  For Every Brock Purdy, there are 20 Alex Brinks.

I think I am and a lot of the posters, who shared the stats, have convinced me to roll with the build a roster approach over the draft the best QB approach. Over my years on this site I've always preached building the roster and finding the QB over selling out for the franchise QB hopeful, this is because I saw what Joe Gibbs did with mediocre QB's who were in a great offense. I now see what SF is doing and it has confirmed my thinking. Mark Rypien was sacked less than ten times back in 1991 because of the tremendous Hogs offensive line; now I watch Purdy and he has all day to throw. If we think Sam is good enough to be the future than I'm all in on coaching him up and helping him out by building the roster around him. 

The RGlll season and aftermath was awful.....we sold out to get him and couldn't keep him healthy, I don't want a repeat of that. Sam is durable, has a cannon and can run.....I am good with building around him over the risk of drafting potential. 

[Skinsinparadise]

18 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

I think I am and a lot of the posters, who shared the stats, have convinced me to roll with the build a roster approach over the draft the best QB approach. Over my years on this site I've always preached building the roster and finding the QB over selling out for the franchise QB hopeful, this is because I saw what Joe Gibbs did with mediocre QB's who were in a great offense. I now see what SF is doing and it has confirmed my thinking. Mark Rypien was sacked less than ten times back in 1991 because of the tremendous Hogs offensive line; now I watch Purdy and he has all day to throw. If we think Sam is good enough to be the future than I'm all in on coaching him up and helping him out by building the roster around him. 

The RGlll season and aftermath was awful.....we sold out to get him and couldn't keep him healthy, I don't want a repeat of that. Sam is durable, has a cannon and can run.....I am good with building around him over the risk of drafting potential. 

 

Part of the charm of not having to trade up for a QB is you can do both.  Our off season doesn't live and die with just that first rounder.

 

I was all for building around Sam if the choices were trading the moon for name that QB in this draft or we are picking outside of the top 10.

 

But being able to take a ballyhooed QB without trading up if that happens would be something that this franchise hasn't had the opportunity to do in 30 years.  It feels a bit nuts to not even consider it.

 

Purdy is a unicorn.  Name the other big time QB taken in the 7th, it happens like every 10 year or so after many misses.  Some like to combine all the players outside the top 10 of the draft -- so its like a pool of 250 players versus 10 to make the argument that any position including QB is better after the first round or top 10.  Yeah using that type of math it is. But that math isn't how it works.

 

Give me a pool of 250 players over 10 players all the time.  But the problem is in real terms its not about a Qb taken in the top 10 versus every other QB combined taken in the draft.   It's not like we get one QB or we will draft the other 10 combined QBs in the draft.  It's one versus one.  And yes the odds are much better that you will hit gold drafting higher than picking lower. 

 

As for Sam I like him.  It's not a verdict on him.  I am not as convinced as some are that we got an elite QB on our hands but I'll leave that for the GM to judge.  If he thinks Sam is elite or Daniels or Maye are meh I'll ride with it. 

 

But the idea that its so slam dunk to ride with Howell no matter what and its not even worth considering anything else -- shocks me that so many believe that.  And i am convinced that those people are going to have a miserable ride in February-March-April because I'd bet money that it will start getting leaked that the new GM is indeed considering it.  To me its a no brainer to consider, not do but consider.  Only thing that would change my mind on this is if Sam just lights it up in the next 4 weeks.

 

 

Edited December 13, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Going Commando]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I am just starting to digest Maye.  I noticed there are some mocks that had him #1.  I just watched an interview of Bruce Feldman who said about 20% of the scouts he's talked to had Maye #1, 80% Caleb.

 

That sounds about right.  I love Maye and he's my favorite of the QB prospects personally.  I think he's a breathtaking talent who was terrifying to see my teams play against because it always felt like a miracle to stop him from making an easy big play.  I pull for Georgia Tech, among other ACC teams, and seeing them beat UNC was the high point of the season for me.  Every single drop back or scramble from Maye was a hold your breath moment.  I think he's like Josh Allen but not as high strung and nervy of a player, more patient and instinctive.

 

But if I'm objective, I recognize that Caleb Williams is better than Maye.  He's got the most spectacular arm talent I think I've ever seen, and he's so much like Mahomes it's actually weird.  I thought Mahomes was going to be a singular player/talent in my lifetime, seeing another one five years later is unexpcted.  Except Caleb is is a smoother and faster athlete than Mahomes, and a more developed and advanced collegiate player than Mahomes was, and he's not going to fall in his draft like Mahomes did.  It makes sense that teams would favor him over Maye.  His ceiling is literally "best player in the NFL in his prime," and he should go #1 overall in virtually any draft.  I was just thinking that maybe he could force his destination a little bit by telling Chicago no.  Probably not, but it's not impossible.

 

BTW I love what I've seen from Jayden Daniels this year too.  I think he's #3 in the class, but he's in Williams's and Maye's world.  He's the fastest and most elusive athlete of the three, and he's also the best decision maker in the pocket of the three.  He's also the most accurate third level passer of them all, and his release is probably the fastest and most efficient.  He is a special prospect too, and there is a definite Deshaun Watson vibe to him as a player.  People forget that Watson was absolutely Mahomes's early career rival/peer before his off-field demons sent his football career to ****.  If Daniels can be Watson without all of his issues, then sign me up.

[kingdaddy]

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Part of the charm of not having to trade up for a QB is you can do both.  Our off season doesn't live and die with just that first rounder.

 

I was all for building around Sam if the choices were trading the moon for name that QB in this draft or we are picking outside of the top 10.

 

But being able to take a ballyhooed QB without trading up if that happens would be something that this franchise hasn't had the opportunity to do in 30 years.  It feels a bit nuts to not even consider it.

 

Purdy is a unicorn.  Name the other big time QB taken in the 7th, it happens like every 10 year or so after many misses.  Some like to combine all the players outside the top 10 of the draft -- so its like a pool of 250 players versus 10 to make the argument that any position including QB is better after the first round or top 10.  Yeah using that type of math it is. But that math isn't how it works.

 

Give me a pool of 250 players over 10 players all the time.  But the problem is in real terms its not about a Qb taken in the top 10 versus every other QB combined taken in the draft.   It's not like we get one QB or we will draft the other 10 combined QBs in the draft.  It's one versus one.  And yes the odds are much better that you will hit gold drafting higher than picking lower. 

 

As for Sam I like him.  It's not a verdict on him.  I am not as convinced as some are that we got an elite QB on our hands but I'll leave that for the GM to judge.  If he thinks Sam is elite or Daniels or Maye are meh I'll ride with it. 

 

But the idea that its so slam dunk to ride with Howell no matter what and its not even worth considering anything else -- shocks me that so many believe that.  And i am convinced that those people are going to have a miserable ride in February-March-April because I'd bet money that it will start getting leaked that the new GM is indeed considering it.  To me its a no brainer to consider, not do but consider.  Only thing that would change my mind on this is if Sam just lights it up in the next 4 weeks.

 

 

I'm not 100% sold on Sam either but I know he has skills similar to Purdy and I see what Purdy's doing with a great supporting cast. I think you and I are similar in that we are both intrigued by the potential of a top 3 QB, but the stats that many are posting tell me that we can get a good QB later in the draft same as we could maybe in the top 3. I really like Bo Nix as a day 2 pick if he's there. 

To your last comment, I love what Tennessee did last night with Levis....they will grow from that win and don't care about draft position. I wonder if Sam went out and beat SF would we be excited and not care so much about draft position because of the way he and the team played against a real SB contender who was trying to win? I think we would. Like I said earlier, I want to see more deep balls and plays to the WR's these last 4 games from Sam to help us all get further convinced that he's our man. 

11 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

That sounds about right.  I love Maye and he's my favorite of the QB prospects personally.  I think he's a breathtaking talent who was terrifying to see my teams play against because it always felt like a miracle to stop him from making an easy big play.  I pull for Georgia Tech, among other ACC teams, and seeing them beat UNC was the high point of the season for me.  Every single drop back or scramble from Maye was a hold your breath moment.  I think he's like Josh Allen but not as high strung and nervy of a player, more patient and instinctive.

 

But if I'm objective, I recognize that Caleb Williams is better than Maye.  He's got the most spectacular arm talent I think I've ever seen, and he's so much like Mahomes it's actually weird.  I thought Mahomes was going to be a singular player/talent in my lifetime, seeing another one five years later is unexpcted.  Except Caleb is is a smoother and faster athlete than Mahomes, and a more developed and advanced collegiate player than Mahomes was, and he's not going to fall in his draft like Mahomes did.  It makes sense that teams would favor him over Maye.  His ceiling is literally "best player in the NFL in his prime," and he should go #1 overall in virtually any draft.  I was just thinking that maybe he could force his destination a little bit by telling Chicago no.  Probably not, but it's not impossible.

 

BTW I love what I've seen from Jayden Daniels this year too.  I think he's #3 in the class, but he's in Williams's and Maye's world.  He's the fastest and most elusive athlete of the three, and he's also the best decision maker in the pocket of the three.  He's also the most accurate third level passer of them all, and his release is probably the fastest and most efficient.  He is a special prospect too, and there is a definite Deshaun Watson vibe to him as a player.  People forget that Watson was absolutely Mahomes's early career rival/peer before his off-field demons sent his football career to ****.  If Daniels can be Watson without all of his issues, then sign me up.

So who you taking if all 3 are there when we pick? 

[gooseneck]

If we trade down from the second pick and up from Chicago's pick we are at this value according to the trade value chart:

 

2600  -2nd

1050-15nd
1000-16nd
950-17nd

 

from the third
2200 - 3 rd

1000-16th
950-17nd
780-22nd

 

from the fourth

1800 4th

1000-16th
800-  21st
and we keep Chicago’s second

another scenario

 
2600  -2nd

1700-5th-giving us top OT or Bowers
900-18th-Another OT 
and we keep the 2 seconds for trade up or offensive line.

It seems like we have the basis of a good offensive line and probably more for the future.

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

As far as tools specifically go IMO Caleb's off platform mobilty is insane, better than Trevor.  His arm strength is as good IMO.    Drake's mobility and arm strength sort of remind me of Trevor on superficial watching.  But as I told @KDawg I'll watch deeper.   Most love Drake.  I noticed @KDawg not so much.  I am not saying he's wrong.  The opposite, I respect him enough to watch closer and decide for myself.

 

 

 

 I spent a lot of time on the draft thread that year.  Very few were pounding the table for Trey Lance.   The dude was raw as heck.  That wasn't a secret.  He was billed as boom-bust.  He had a few fans.  But that was far from a consensus take on that draft thread

 

 

I was actively rooting for Haskins to be taken before our pick, that's how much i didn't want him.  And I wasn't alone on that.

 

 

Also not a consensus take.  there are a zillion opinions on the draft thread.  Heck I recall two people loving Kyle Trask.  So what?  You get 100 people to give opinions, and you will hear everything.  But I don't a consensus we really need Trubisky take on that thread.

 

But anyway even if all of this was true.  So what?  The case you'd be making is you wouldn't want Extremskins board posters to pick your QB.  Heck that's sort of my point.  Some here believe they can call it now.  Sam is the dude.  These others guys are not better.  Case closed.   I want a professional to make the call.  I am not reassured because name the poster here tells me they've seen enough that Howell is elite or don't believe the hype on name that QB because they got a better read on the situation.

 

 

We've traveled that road so many times.  Don't go with the top 5 type.   We've take some first rounders but sands RG3 none of them were taken high and all were overdrafted.  

 

We've not played in the Tiffany's aisle.  Trying to JC Penny's the position in the draft isn't a new ride for us.  That's been most of the ride.  

 

Is Howell the dude where they strike gold?  Maybe.  I suspect we hit Silver with him.  Is that good enough for me.  In theory yes.  But I am not scared of taking a QB top 5.  And a minimum I think its foolish to not even consider this.

 

 

Actually, I like Drake.

 

Remember, I had Howell as a first round talent. So saying we have Howell and they are similar isn’t me taking a shot at Maye.

 

If we had Heinicke I’d take Maye all day.

 

If there were a QB who I thought was a damn near lock to be great I’d take them in a heart beat. But I just don’t.

[Skinsinparadise]

17 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

That sounds about right.  I love Maye and he's my favorite of the QB prospects personally.  I think he's a breathtaking talent who was terrifying to see my teams play against because it always felt like a miracle to stop him from making an easy big play.  I pull for Georgia Tech, among other ACC teams, and seeing them beat UNC was the high point of the season for me.  Every single drop back or scramble from Maye was a hold your breath moment.  I think he's like Josh Allen but not as high strung and nervy of a player, more patient and instinctive.

 

But if I'm objective, I recognize that Caleb Williams is better than Maye.  He's got the most spectacular arm talent I think I've ever seen, and he's so much like Mahomes it's actually weird.  I thought Mahomes was going to be a singular player/talent in my lifetime, seeing another one five years later is unexpcted.  Except Caleb is is a smoother and faster athlete than Mahomes, and a more developed and advanced collegiate player than Mahomes was, and he's not going to fall in his draft like Mahomes did.  It makes sense that teams would favor him over Maye.  His ceiling is literally "best player in the NFL in his prime," and he should go #1 overall in virtually any draft.  I was just thinking that maybe he could force his destination a little bit by telling Chicago no.  Probably not, but it's not impossible.

 

BTW I love what I've seen from Jayden Daniels this year too.  I think he's #3 in the class, but he's in Williams's and Maye's world.  He's the fastest and most elusive athlete of the three, and he's also the best decision maker in the pocket of the three.  He's also the most accurate third level passer of them all, and his release is probably the fastest and most efficient.  He is a special prospect too, and there is a definite Deshaun Watson vibe to him as a player.  People forget that Watson was absolutely Mahomes's early career rival/peer before his off-field demons sent his football career to ****.  If Daniels can be Watson without all of his issues, then sign me up.

 

I posted some of the superlatives about Drake from different people in a post above.  The irony about Drake in the context of Howell is part of the narrative from people around that team was that as much as they loved Howell, they felt Drake was the better QB.

 

As I mentioned Drake flashed big time when I was watching other North Carolina players but I need to to just watch him, which I'll do shortly.  Ditto Caleb.  I mentioned that way back on the draft thread.

 

Daniels I've watched.  Mainly because i think he's the most realisitc get and I am intigued.   I need to watch Drake now.  I am still convinced Caleb would be a waste of time because i expect he's going #1. 

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Actually, I like Drake.

 

Remember, I had Howell as a first round talent. So saying we have Howell and they are similar isn’t me taking a shot at Maye.

 

If we had Heinicke I’d take Maye all day.

 

If there were a QB who I thought was a damn near lock to be great I’d take them in a heart beat. But I just don’t.

 

Fair enough.  I got to watch and make up my own mind.  When watching other players I was uber impressed with boh Caleb and Drake.  But I haven't studied either.

 

As far as your personality concerns about Drake, I spend about 30 minutes just now reading about him.  It was all praise on that front.  Comes off like a super nice guy.  He comes off less quiet than Sam but the one concern I read is some still think he's too quiet.  So what did you read as the concern?

 

If I had to pick a personality concern based on what I've read is I can't see how you can have him and Sam battle it out for this spot.  They are very close friends from what I read and talk to each other all the time.  So the awkwardness would be well beyond them both being from the same school.  They come off as best friends level close  

Edited December 13, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[MrJL]

I'm to the point of hoping we get 4 and the picks before are Williams, Maye and Harrison, just so no one can complain when we draft an OT

[The Rook]

One thing for certain is that the most important pick will be the selection of General Manager.

 

 

One thing I believe is that Washington will "find" a way to pick no better than 7th.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

 

 

 

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Fair enough.  I got to watch and make up my own mind.  When watching other players I was uber impressed with boh Caleb and Drake.  But I haven't studied either.

 

As far as your personality concerns about Drake, I spend about 30 minutes just now reading about him.  It was all praise on that front.  Comes off like a super nice guy.  He comes off less quiet than Sam but the one concern I read is some still think he's too quiet.  So what did you read?

 

If I had to pick a personality concern based on what I've read is I can't see how you can have him and Sam battle it out for this spot.  They are very close friends from what I read and talk to each other all the time.  So the awkwardness would be well beyond them both being from the same school.  They come off as best friends level close  

I’m thinking it may have been a rumor because I went back to find it and I can’t. 
 

So that part I’m going to ease back on until I see the article again. 
 

But his game is so similar to Howell’s on field I still don’t know if that changes my overall outlook. I think Maye will be really good, but that’s the trajectory I have Howell on, too. And I can’t take myself seriously if I back off on my Howell stance, that I still believe, just to get a shiny new Howell. 
 

That said, I think Maye has the highest floor of the top prospects. 
 

Williams scares me, man. He just does. He throws a lot of dump offs and passes to wide open receivers. I think he has a tremendous cast around him, too. 
 

If people want to talk tools, Williams has them all (but not size… again… he’s the same size as Howell). And I’m definitely not sold on him as a leader/personality guy.

 

Jayden Daniels is the most intriguing. If he can be a better passing version of Lamar he’s going to be good for a real long time. 

[dunfer]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

If I had to pick a personality concern based on what I've read is I can't see how you can have him and Sam battle it out for this spot.  They are very close friends from what I read and talk to each other all the time.  So the awkwardness would be well beyond them both being from the same school.  They come off as best friends level close  

 I dont think you spend a top 4 pick on a qb to bring in for a competition. That pick has to be a clear cut starter in the gms mind.

 

If that top pick is a qb the gm is saying Sam is available for trades. What could we recoup for Sam?  I can hear the phones dialing already

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, dunfer said:

 I dont think you spend a top 4 pick on a qb to bring in for a competition. That pick has to be a clear cut starter in the gms mind.

 

If that top pick is a qb the gm is saying Sam is available for trades. What could we recoup for Sam?  I can hear the phones dialing already

Same. The only way that really works is if it’s made clear the new QB is going to sit for a year or two before getting in… and that doesn’t happen much anymore.

 

If they go QB then Howell either needs to be traded or start for the year(or until he earns the right to sit on the bench)

[RWJ]

Just now, KDawg said:

Jayden Daniels is the most intriguing. If he can be a better passing version of Lamar he’s going to be good for a real long time. 

I'm all in on this kid!  We need him and he needs a HC who is good with QBs.  It'd be a dream if we could land Ben Johnson from Detroit but I would want the GM to be the one that hires Johnson or it be agreed upon with each other as a package deal.  Both accepting each other's role to work together.  Let us get a GM that knows players, know how to trade and the true value of trading players for picks or visa versa.  There's been rumors about Ian Cunningham, Asst. GM of the Bears and I have heard Alec Halaby, Asst. GM of Philly.  Ross Tucker said he's a name to look out for as the new GM. I'd want us to keep Howell though as he'd be on the cheap for the next couple of years.