2024 NFL Draft Position/Tracker - Final Pick #2

[Skinsinparadise]

6 hours ago, MartinC said:

Speaking of TEs Michael Mayer has like 3 catches on the season for the Raiders. And 2 of those came in their last game. Have both his legs fallen off or something?

 

Id look at TE a bit later in the draft - I like another Notre Dame TE who is a Junior in Mitchell Evan’s. Not sure were he will go, I don’t know that he will test all that well so he could fall.  There are 3 stud OTs in the coming draft, we have to find a way to walk away with one of them.

 

TE can often be a slow start position.  Logan Paulsen has talked about this some.  Speaking of TE, Kmet in his rookie season had a whopping one catch in his his first 5 games.  Now he's good. 

 

But some start off fast.  I liked Mayer but ultimately he didn't make my top 20 list, after his so so combine.  Laporta did make my list and he's killing it from the jump. 

 

Bowers is more in that Laporta school IMO stylistically and has some Mayer mixed in as to being really physical with contested catches.  Mayer is an old school TE. 

 

Bowers is a freak.  Great hands, gets open, contested ctaches, YAC.  And like Laporta underrrated blocker.

 

 

 

[DWinzit]

Mayer's HC is Josh McDaniels. That alone should cover it lol.

 

They are 1-4 which is expected with that guy as the HC.

 

Mayer is used a lot in blocking schemes as he was by far the most rounded TE in the draft. ' not Laporta or Mowers forte as they are much more weapons than blockers

 

Also Jimmy G must keep his other weapons happy...Davanta Adams, Jakobi Myers and Josh Jacobs especially and they have Austin Hooper in their TE pool.

 

Edit add - 

When we could not hit on a OT in the first, I was of the opinion we should have looked at either Laporta or Mayer. They both were pretty much NFL ready which is not the norm with TE's. Either could have assisted the weak OT's while becoming best friends to the Howell.

Edited October 12, 2023 by DWinzit

[Skinsinparadise]

17 hours ago, philibusters said:

 

I agree with that.  If we are drafting in the low teens there is a shot Bowers is there because of positional value.   Cannot count on it because sometimes team just draft the best player and don't worry about positional value.  We thought Bijon Robinson may be available at 16, he went at 8 and Gibbs went at 12.   But there is at least a chance you can still get a blue chip player like Bowers at 12 or 13 because of positional value.

 

He could drop.    The thing is about TEs they aren't hot starters typically ao if you want to hit the ground running its not the spot for you typically. 

 

It's sort of like the LB spot on offense.  Among this current group, Laporta is killing it from the start and that's unusual.  Musgrave has good numbers from the start.  Some like Mallory have really good PFF score but only a few receptions, etc.  Kyle Pitts who I see is getting beat up on this thread actually was a rare freak from the jump of his career.  Historic rookie numbers for a TE.  It gets lost because he was in Atlanta, yawn.  But then he got hurt the next season.

 

As for Bower, this dude isn't just a hot prospect.  This isn't Hockenson and Kmet who I liked before the draft round 2.  Don't get me wrong both have had good careers.

 

Using Laporta as an example, he was a really good seperator and YAC guy in college and that apparently can translate fast.   Bower same thing.

 

Kyle Pitts was/is basically a glorified big receiver.  Bower is a true TE.  That's why he gets compared so much to Kittle. 

 

Teams don't wait on drafting TEs the way they used to in the draft from what I noticed.  In the draft special this team put out, you can hear Ron talk about the run on TEs early on.

 

Having that we need O line, O line, O line, O line.  Any other postion especially TE feels like a luxury to me.  Also this draft is supposed to be pretty good at TE but I haven't dived into it. 

 

Some team probaby the Giants end up with Bowers and he ends up torturing us like other TEs, do

 

 

Edited October 12, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[method man]

7 hours ago, MartinC said:

Speaking of TEs Michael Mayer has like 3 catches on the season for the Raiders. And 2 of those came in their last game. Have both his legs fallen off or something?

 

Id look at TE a bit later in the draft - I like another Notre Dame TE who is a Junior in Mitchell Evan’s. Not sure were he will go, I don’t know that he will test all that well so he could fall.  There are 3 stud OTs in the coming draft, we have to find a way to walk away with one of them.

Is Mims your 3rd guy? I really hope his makeup checks out. I’m starting to get as leery of Georgia linemen as I am Alabama linemen.

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Mayer's HC is Josh McDaniels. That alone should cover it lol.

 

They are 1-4 which is expected with that guy as the HC.

 

Mayer is used a lot in blocking schemes as he was by far the most rounded TE in the draft. ' not Laporta or Mowers forte as they are much more weapons than blockers

 

Also Jimmy G must keep his other weapons happy...Davanta Adams, Jakobi Myers and Josh Jacobs especially and they have Austin Hooper in their TE pool.

 

Mayer was my early draft crash at TE.  He got leapfrogged by some others as we got closer to the end.  I was in on Laporta early too so he stayed with me the whole time and made my guys list, Mayer did not end up on that list for me even though he certainly would have been on that list if I created it early.

 

I was back and forth on Mayer after the combine but still liked him.  On one front his numbers weren't as bad as some critics billed them IMO.  But clearly it showed he's not the fastest dude.  

 

Still I think Mayer ends up a good player I don't give a rats behind about slow starts.  Almost every rookie TE starts slow.   If I had to take a lesson from this draft so far (granted with the TE spot it could be a totally different story later this season or next year) TEs with seperation skills and are good YAC guys might have early advantages.  Musgrave though wasn't much of a YAC guy albiet he's a good seperator.

 

Also I gather it helps to have Ben Johnson as your offensive coodinator.

 

And to be consistent I want to see Bowers combine numbers because that could change my mind.  I find it harder for me to judge speed with TEs versus WRs.  I tend to guess well for WRs, but hit and miss with TEs.  Laporta had a good combine.  I liked him well before that but that cemented him with me.

 

But I give all these guys time to judge.  

 

 

 

Edited October 12, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[method man]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Mayer was my early draft crash at TE.  He got leapfrogged by some others as we got closer to the end.  I was in on Laporta early too so he stayed with me the whole time and made my guys list, Mayer did not even though he certainly would have been on that list if I created it early.

 

I was back and forth on Mayer after the combine but still liked him.  On one front his numbers weren't as bad as some critics billed them IMO.  But clearly it showed he's not the fastest dude.  

 

Still I think Mayer ends up a good player I don't give a rats behind about slow starts.  Almost every rookie TE starts slow. 

 

 

 

The slow start for most TEs is another reason to generally avoid them in round 1 if you are trying to maximize the value of a first round rookie contract. When you pair the lower expected ROI you get in at least year 1 with the lower spread between positional AAV post rookie contract with the rookie deal, financially, it does not make a ton of sense. I feel off ball LB fits this too.

[Skinsinparadise]

16 minutes ago, method man said:

The slow start for most TEs is another reason to generally avoid them in round 1 if you are trying to maximize the value of a first round rookie contract. When you pair the lower expected ROI you get in at least year 1 with the lower spread between positional AAV post rookie contract with the rookie deal, financially, it does not make a ton of sense. I feel off ball LB fits this too.

 

To me it depends on the player and situation.  The specific depth in the draft, etc at said position.  Where your roster is, etc.

 

The Bills for example drafting Kincaid early on made sense to me.  Their offense is explosive.  It's a well rounded team.  Kincaid in college had insane hands, could move well for a TE, good seperator.  Adding that to Josh Allen made sense to me.   Like most rookie TEs he's not killing it from the jump but still on pace for about 60 catches, not bad.  And a player like him likely keeps getting better. 

 

The Lions had multiple early picks, so I like them taking Laporta early on.  They have a creative offensive mind running the show, etc.

 

Part of the reason why me, @KDawg, @DWinzit, @Koolblue13 were befuddled with this FO's approach in the last draft is they needed to win now.  And going CB from the jump and then nickel corner-FS in a draft that was arguably loaded at those spots with good depth -- we'd have gone later but in their defense if I am going that early at those spots those players better be special.  We are about to see about Quan, i liked him before the draft but I get rhe vibe that they aren't sold on his readiness.

 

I am OK going with drafting a special player at a spot than maybe isn't a premium position or that even has great depth in that draft.  So if Forbes and Quan are special players who can help them immediately in a win now year -- those picks would be vindicated. 

 

That's my long winded way of saying i prefer premium positions and also factoring depth at a position in a draft.  But I am OK with making exceptions of you are blown away by a player.

 

Regardless, for this draft, I am 100% O line, O line, O line.  I was close to that take in the last draft but now I can't think of a position that was so in need than that one in years for this team.  The fact that its supposed to be a good draft for tackle in particular is the kicker for me. 

Edited October 12, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[method man]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

To me it depends on the player and situation.  The specific depth in the draft, etc at said position.  Where your roster is, etc.

 

The Bills for example drafting Kincaid early on made sense to me.  Their offense is explosive.  It's a well rounded team.  Kincaid in college had insane hands, could move well for a TE, good seperator.  Adding that to Josh Allen made sense to me.   Like most rookie TEs he's not killing it from the jump but still on pace for about 60 catches, not bad.  And a player like him likely keeps getting better. 

 

The Lions had multiple early picks, so I like them taking Laporta early on.  They have a creative offensive mind running the show, etc.

 

Part of the reason why me, @KDawg, @DWinzit, @Koolblue13 were befuddled with this FO's approach in the last draft is they needed to win now.  And going CB from the jump and then nickel corner-FS in a draft that was arguably loaded at those spot with good depth -- we'd have gone later but in their defense if I am going that early at those spots those players better be special.  We are about to see about Quan, i liked him before the draft but I get rhe vibe that they aren't sold on his readiness.

 

I am OK going with drafting a special player at a spot than maybe isn't a premium position or that even has great depth in that draft.  So if Forbes and Quan are special players who can help them immediately in a win now year -- those picks would be vindicated. 

 

That's my long winded way of saying i prefer premium positions and also factoring depth at a position in a draft.  But I am OK with making exceptions of you are blown away by a player.

 

Regardless, for this draft, I am 100% O line, O line, O line.  I was close to that take in the last draft but now I can't think of a position that was so in need than that one in years for this team.  The fact that its supposed to be a good draft for tackle in particular is the kicker for me. 

I buy it more if we are talking back half of the first round vs the first half given that the bust rate seems to increase quite a bit at premium positions in the back half. To your point, if one piece can put a team over the top potentially like the Bills with Kincaid, I get that 

 

I am generally ok with teams going to town on non premium positions starting with the 2nd. 

 

Not entirely related to this - With the Lions specifically, they used their first 4 picks on non premium positions. What is interesting is that the 2 2nd round guys are the ones delivering a lot of value so far (LaPorta and Branch). Campbell is off to a slow start if we go by PFF and Gibbs, for some reason, had just not seized the backfield

Edited October 12, 2023 by method man

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, method man said:

I buy it more if we are talking back half of the first round vs the first half given that the bust rate seems to increase quite a bit at premium positions in the back half. To your point, if one piece can put a team over the top potentially like the Bills with Kincaid, I get that 

 

I am generally ok with teams going to town on non premium positions starting with the 2nd. 

 

Not entirely related to this - With the Lions specifically, they used their first 4 picks on non premium positions. What is interesting is that the 2 2nd round guys are the ones delivering a lot of value so far (LaPorta and Branch). Campbell is off to a slow start if we go by PFF and Gibbs, for some reason, had just not seized the backfield

 

The Lions took some of my favorite players in that draft.  Gibbs is doing OK, 4.6 YPA but its curious to some that they look at Gibbs as they called it their change of pace back versus featured back consideing how high they took him.  Judging by PFF Campbell has been very good against the run, bad against the pass so far. 

 

Going back to tackle.  Unfortunately that's not always a hit the ground position either.  But they IMO have no choice. 

[Chris 44]

46 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 

 

Having that we need O line, O line, O line, O line.  Any other postion especially TE feels like a luxury to me.  Also this draft is supposed to be pretty good at TE but I haven't dived into it. 

 

Some team probaby the Giants end up with Bowers and he ends up torturing us like other TEs, do

 

 

This is really infuriating, due to our piss poor prior drafts...neglecting OL, we have put our self in a position where we cannot draft someone like Bowers. Its frustrating as hell.

[DWinzit]

8 minutes ago, method man said:

I buy it more if we are talking back half of the first round vs the first half given that the bust rate seems to increase quite a bit at premium positions in the back half. To your point, if one piece can put a team over the top potentially like the Bills with Kincaid, I get that 

 

I am generally ok with teams going to town on non premium positions starting with the 2nd. 

 

Not entirely related to this - With the Lions specifically, they used their first 4 picks on non premium positions. What is interesting is that the 2 2nd round guys are the ones delivering a lot of value so far (LaPorta and Branch). Campbell is off to a slow start if we go by PFF and Gibbs, for some reason, had just not seized the backfield

I am not a fan of taking a TE in the first round either.

 

Detroit nailed the draft filling all the slots they identified as needs in grand fashion.

 

They had Gibbs on a pitch count the first few weeks and filter him in over the game. I mean it isn't like Montgomery and Reynolds aren't killing it also. The three are all having nice seasons and Gibbs play time has ramped up. I wish we had drafted players contributing like they have. 

 

While Campbell isn't killing it yet, he will. He is also behind another favorite of mine from a few years back Barnes and the vet Anzolene. He will pick it up over the season like Gibbs.

 

They have such a powerful roster. They were able to also Hooker as a future pick, not a bad roll of the dice. 

[Koolblue13]

The Lions built their OL from the Center out. Ragnow is awesome, Sewell was a great pick up and they have a lot of solid depth from investing in it.

 

Campbell basically built a strong foundation and changed the culture. Bold moves like trading Hockenson away midseason, when they needed a TE, worked out great.

 

This offseaon they addressed their holes and what the team needed to go over the top and went after them in the draft. Branch cleaned up the back of the defense, they have a very solid group of LBers and Hutch is an absolute beast.

 

What frustrates us is that Ron needed to invest in OL last year, instead of drafting a DT3 to replace the back ups we lost, not trading back a second time to address OL and still taking a WR at WR2. It's terrible use of resources and left us in need coming into this draft and they played it like trash

 

Maybe we could have traded back this past draft if the league didn't know Forbes was our target.

[MartinC]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

Some team probaby the Giants end up with Bowers and he ends up torturing us like other TEs, do

 

 

 

Giants will be back into the OT pool I think. They seem to have missed on Neal - might try to kick him inside and see if he can work out at G.

[MartinC]

1 hour ago, method man said:

Is Mims your 3rd guy? I really hope his makeup checks out. I’m starting to get as leery of Georgia linemen as I am Alabama linemen.

 

I have Alt then Mims. Fashanu, Latham, Alt.

[Warhead36]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

The Lions built their OL from the Center out. Ragnow is awesome, Sewell was a great pick up and they have a lot of solid depth from investing in it.

 

Campbell basically built a strong foundation and changed the culture. Bold moves like trading Hockenson away midseason, when they needed a TE, worked out great.

 

This offseaon they addressed their holes and what the team needed to go over the top and went after them in the draft. Branch cleaned up the back of the defense, they have a very solid group of LBers and Hutch is an absolute beast.

 

What frustrates us is that Ron needed to invest in OL last year, instead of drafting a DT3 to replace the back ups we lost, not trading back a second time to address OL and still taking a WR at WR2. It's terrible use of resources and left us in need coming into this draft and they played it like trash

 

Maybe we could have traded back this past draft if the league didn't know Forbes was our target.

Trading Hockenson was such a smart, progressive, forward thinking move. Something this franchise would NEVER do.

 

Then they turn around and draft a guy who is basically just as good so they get the same production from a younger and cheaper guy. And to top it off, they trade him to a division rival so they take draft picks away from them(and said rival is now 1-4 so those picks will be even better).

 

Its a sad day when the Detroit Lions are a better run organization than we are but such is life.

[philibusters]

2 hours ago, MartinC said:

 

I have Alt then Mims. Fashanu, Latham, Alt.

 

I don't have strong opinion but in general I think Mims and Latham are probably guys I would avoid, particularly Mims.  They will likely be very good, but I don't know if I think they will good right away.   I think we need an instant upgrade to teh O-Line.   The PFF podcast compared Mims to Broderick Jones last year his former teammate.   A guy who moves well for his size, but who is a little rawer and may not be ready game 1.  So with Mims, you might be getting the best physical tools in the class, but if he struggles to see the field out the gate, I feel like it will be a disaster.  Likewise, if we play him but he struggles a lot of the gate like Emmanuel Forbes that would be a PR disaster.  Long story short, our O-Line is a state where I think taking Fashanu or Alt if they are available is clear the best move because I think they are both immediate upgrades.  But where we are picking we might be taking Tackle #4 so at that point the best prospect could be a Mims.

[MartinC]

2 hours ago, philibusters said:

 

I don't have strong opinion but in general I think Mims and Latham are probably guys I would avoid, particularly Mims.  They will likely be very good, but I don't know if I think they will good right away.   I think we need an instant upgrade to teh O-Line.   The PFF podcast compared Mims to Broderick Jones last year his former teammate.   A guy who moves well for his size, but who is a little rawer and may not be ready game 1.  So with Mims, you might be getting the best physical tools in the class, but if he struggles to see the field out the gate, I feel like it will be a disaster.  Likewise, if we play him but he struggles a lot of the gate like Emmanuel Forbes that would be a PR disaster.  Long story short, our O-Line is a state where I think taking Fashanu or Alt if they are available is clear the best move because I think they are both immediate upgrades.  But where we are picking we might be taking Tackle #4 so at that point the best prospect could be a Mims.

I've seen more of Alt than any of the others - and I'm far from an expert on O'line play! I think Fashanu is gone first 5 picks - Alt is the guy I would target.

[cakmoney61]

On 10/9/2023 at 10:06 AM, MartinC said:

Me. Kind of. 

 

I didn't think they would be as bad as they have been on D but I thought their offense would be poor. I'm not a fan of Mac Jones and they might have the worst collection of skill position players in the league.

Would you be surprised if they beat the Commanders?  Because it's exactly what they're going to do.

[Stihl89]

[zCommander]

^^^^ I rather Ron drag the team to the 32nd pick instead.

Currently picking 19. 

[Stihl89]

1 hour ago, zCommander said:

^^^^ I rather Ron drag the team to the 32nd pick instead.

Currently picking 19. 

I’d rather be dating Jessica Alba but let’s live in the real world

[zCommander]

4 hours ago, Stihl89 said:

I’d rather be dating Jessica Alba but let’s live in the real world

 

Except in the real world she is married. But in the football world though any given Sunday. 

[Skinsinparadise]

On 10/12/2023 at 12:20 AM, MartinC said:

Speaking of TEs Michael Mayer has like 3 catches on the season for the Raiders. And 2 of those came in their last game. Have both his legs fallen off or something?

 

Id look at TE a bit later in the draft - I like another Notre Dame TE who is a Junior in Mitchell Evan’s. Not sure were he will go, I don’t know that he will test all that well so he could fall.  There are 3 stud OTs in the coming draft, we have to find a way to walk away with one of them.

 

I think this discussion ended up motivating him. 😎

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MartinC]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think this discussion ended up motivating him. 😎

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Its what I do 😎

[srtman04]

On 10/6/2023 at 5:30 AM, CobraCommander said:

Oh don’t worry. Ron will win us a handful of meaningless games so we can pick some sucky defensive stick figure or high character loser. 

 

Hopefully Ron will not be anywhere near sniffing distance of the next draft!